New York 194: Guns N' Roses Mafia! (Day 8)

[Axl_Rose]

This is Boonskiies' third prod, so he will be replaced.

[Something_Smart]

@KAAG & jam: Guy is definitely lurky and hard to read, but I don't think that makes him scum. In fact, I rather like his reads. @jam in particular: garbage != scum. See Golden Robster. @KAAG in particular: I think Drixx is the way to go. What makes you torn on him?

[KickAssAndGiggle]

I've played with scum Drixx (that single Newbie defeat he alluded to...I inflicted it), and he was far more conciliatory as scum. His ISO here is terrible, but it's nothing like the Drixx in that game. I've ummed and ahhd about it, but for now I'm waiting on his promised reads before reconsidering him.

Regarding Guy, 18 posts total, 10 of which are unarguably fluff. Flying under the radar is an understatement: he's a stealth bomber! I agree that he is hard to read: if he won't correct that by himself then we can encourage him.

[GuyFawkes]

I'm torn on Drixx. I'm also torn on Firebringer.

There's a slot that's bugging the hell out of me now though, so...

UNVOTE:
VOTE: GuyFawkes

(And before anyone asks why, the answer is "his ISO"...which will only takes 30 seconds to read).

How about doing something Mr Fawkes?

Mr Fawkes is my dad. please call me Guy

[Fraggernaut]

@Mod

Will be going V/LA for a couple of days. The medicine I'm on for my injury has me pretty sedated.

[SnarkySnowman]

V/la a bit. Fragger and iraonvp are still scum

[iraonavp]

What?

[Fraggernaut]

@ Snarky

Lol. Your ISO.

[iraonavp]

ABSOLUTELY SLAUGHTERED

[iraonavp]

Slandaar seems to think Ozgin is scum-aligned and I agree. The cases and stances do seem fabricated.

I didn't like the way his reads changed from 1110 -> 1111. In particular it sounds like he intended to vote Fraggernaut and start reading me as town-aligned when he wrote 1110, and the case thing was perfunctory.

And I can accept that Fraggernaut could be town-aligned, however much this pains me.

VOTE: Ozgin

[Slandaar]

Mobile post - yeah, I'll do an ISO of killthestory, I wanna do a Drixx ISO first.

I look forward to it!

As far as building a case for everyone, I do have to do that, at least for me, because I don't like votes without explicit reason beyond, "they're scum, read their ISO."

OK that is fine but explain why you have a huge case with something like:

In 433, Creature says "Two stones, one scum" and votes for Drixx, which is some strange cryptic thing that has no apparent meaning.

How is this alignment indicative?

Innocent until proven guilty,

if I try to prove someone guilty

and it falls apart, then they are probably innocent. It works, I'm telling you.

Yes. I do get the impression you try to prove them guilty and when you can't they are innocent. Seems more like Guilty until proven innocent.

[Egg]

Prod dodge. Bed time for me

[Ozgin]

Spoiler: killthestory

So I'm down to 314 in this ISO already and all I see is a lot of light shitposting, but posts like 110-112 and 108 before this point are sarcastic and sassy but they're still accurate. I'm pretty content with this ISO so far.

429 is a naked vote with no reasoning, not even loosely discernible from the context surrounding the posts. This is different than some of his previous votes, that either came with a quote (implying some reason) or at least made sense with the context surrounding the vote (usually the previous 2-5 posts or so). People were talking about SirCakez a little before this vote on him, but opinions were tossed and nothing was really brought up against him. This just strikes me as weird.

714 is a kinda dickish post. I mean, this was in response to what I assume is Ira's 713 (the post immediately before kts's), but ira was actually making a decent point about being active, even as a replacement, rather than just trying to back out of putting in effort and blaming the fact that you have a lot to catch up on. Was this supposed to be a defense of Drixx, then? Because that's who iraon's 713 was aimed at. This is just strangely abrasive, especially against a valid point against Drixx.

786 - No, stop that. Even when we're going for a shitty last-minute lynch on an apathetic player, quick hammering is bad, there's no town motivation in rushing a lynch, regardless of how stupid you think it is.

829 is blatantly useless. Indirect ad hominem attacks benefit nobody.

890 made me deja vu back to 786, I actually fucking refreshed my ISO page on this stupid and bad post.

This post made me think back to when a certain player said responding to posts with memes was defensive, and furthermore scummy. Who said that again? Oh yeah.

Although in this post where he reuses the image, it actually kinda makes sense.

At least he can admit to playing like a shitlord, too.

All in all, despite a few discrepancies, I think KTS is actually a relatively townie player this game. A bit of an asshole, yeah, but it kinda reminds me of House or ABR's styles of being an ass, but being a correct ass.

I'm sorry, but I'm not doing the Drixx ISO for a little while yet. I have class at 1:30 but I might not go due to illness, I'll try to ISO Drixx before tomorrow, I still like Fragger for a lynch though.

[Ozgin]

I didn't like the way his reads changed from 1110 -> 1111. In particular it sounds like he intended to vote Fraggernaut and start reading me as town-aligned when he wrote 1110, and the case thing was perfunctory.

I'm actually a

little

offended that you called "the case thing...perfunctory." I sat up from like 4:30am to like 5:15am writing that, with a small break to drink some tea. I didn't copy/past like three dozen fucking url's into url tags to be 'perfunctory.'

[Ilikebugs]

OK I dont think GuyFawkes is scum. Other are saying that he is scum because of his lurkiness, but I don't believe that is indicative of alignment.

Unvote: Iraonavp

people arent voting him so I guess Ill jump off for now.

[Fraggernaut]

OK I dont think GuyFawkes is scum. Other are saying that he is scum because of his lurkiness, but I don't believe that is indicative of alignment.

Unvote: Iraonavp

people arent voting him so I guess Ill jump off for now.

Would you say town is more likely to jump off a wagon or scum are more likely to jump off a wagon cause no one is voting them? That was strange of you to say bugs but I don't know if that necessarily makes you scum.

[DrippingGoofball]

I've played with scum Drixx (that single Newbie defeat he alluded to...I inflicted it), and he was far more conciliatory as scum. His ISO here is terrible, but it's nothing like the Drixx in that game. I've ummed and ahhd about it, but for now I'm waiting on his promised reads before reconsidering him.

Regarding Guy, 18 posts total, 10 of which are unarguably fluff. Flying under the radar is an understatement: he's a stealth bomber! I agree that he is hard to read: if he won't correct that by himself then we can encourage him.

Meta is crap, though. It should be banned.

[DrippingGoofball]

iraonavp is town BTW

[Ozgin]

Mod: V/LA for a few days - I'm sick, I can't talk/eat very much and I have classes and stuff so this is going to be a rough few days.

[Ozgin]

Mobile post - yeah, I'll do an ISO of killthestory, I wanna do a Drixx ISO first.

I look forward to it!

As far as building a case for everyone, I do have to do that, at least for me, because I don't like votes without explicit reason beyond, "they're scum, read their ISO."

OK that is fine but explain why you have a huge case with something like:

In 433, Creature says "Two stones, one scum" and votes for Drixx, which is some strange cryptic thing that has no apparent meaning.

How is this alignment indicative?

Innocent until proven guilty,

if I try to prove someone guilty

and it falls apart, then they are probably innocent. It works, I'm telling you.

Yes. I do get the impression you try to prove them guilty and when you can't they are innocent. Seems more like Guilty until proven innocent.

Before I go, though, a quick response - Saying weird, cryptic bullshit like "Two birds one stone" early in Day 1 serves no purpose to confuse and distract people, and it derails town thought and reads. Furthermore, I wouldn't put it past a scum player to say something really weird and then later claim it was a soft claim or a crumb, or something equally bullshit. Like, "Oh yeah, I'm a Vengeful townie, if I die at night the scum who kill me also die! Get it? Two stones one scum?", etc.

And I go into the ISO assuming they're innocent. I read until I find something that starts to sway me to believe otherwise. After enough contradictory posts/bad posts/scummy posts/things that don't make me thing someone is innocent, they are no longer considered innocent to me.

[SnarkySnowman]

iraonavp is town BTW

Why? I'm pretty sure he's scum.

[Performer]

Actually, how'd we go from this:
iraonavp — Performer, pisskop, SnarkySnowman, Fraggernaut, Kop, SirCakez, Ilikebugs

To only Frag voting Ira.

Performer, Snarky, and Bugs, what is your read on Ira now?

I've had him at townread - I think I mentioned my change on him, later in d1 .
At first I scumread him because of Fragg’s interactions with him. Gradually I no longer preferred the ira lynch on d1, because of his continued engagement since from pgs 28 -35.
Since then, I've not been scumreading ira.
---

You don't want to lynch me.

See: Mafiaception.

Are you referencing meta here?
Cause thats scummy too.

Using meta itself is ok but it's exactly how someone uses meta. I've seen UpTooLate use it against me in a very interesting, subtle fashion - turned out she was scum in that game.

Inb4 I get prodded.

I'll read D2 at least throughout the weekend. That's the best I can offer atm.

Wow...I think one of the best things

we

can offer is to wagon this slot asap.

Actually, how'd we go from this:
iraonavp — Performer, pisskop, SnarkySnowman, Fraggernaut, Kop, SirCakez, Ilikebugs

To only Frag voting Ira.

Performer, Snarky, and Bugs, what is your read on Ira now?

Probably because I claimed PR.

I don't get the point of you bringing this up again. I think you should not mention anything about PRs without good reason, so scum have a harder time trying to find PRs.

[Performer]

I think Ozgin is actually town. His cases seem convoluted & constipated on first impression , much like Keyser Soze's cases, but I don't see him being scum in this game.
---

This is Boonskiies' third prod, so he will be replaced.

Hmm. This slot may actually be town, as 3 town are already done for, so I don't see a valid reason for him to replace out in this game state.
I'm starting to think that slot is town because of this.

I've played with scum Drixx (that single Newbie defeat he alluded to...I inflicted it), and he was far more conciliatory as scum. His ISO here is terrible, but it's nothing like the Drixx in that game. I've ummed and ahhd about it, but for now I'm waiting on his promised reads before reconsidering him.

Regarding Guy, 18 posts total, 10 of which are unarguably fluff. Flying under the radar is an understatement: he's a stealth bomber! I agree that he is hard to read: if he won't correct that by himself then we can encourage him.

I fully agree on KAAG's stance. I've got a longheld tradition of scumreading folks who lurk like GuyFawke. Just because it's his style, so what? Lurkers are mysterious, mysterious means vague/hard to read, and that ultimately isn't too helpful for town. This is also why GuyFawk is on my scumread list, along with the fact that he strongly urged quick hammer when SC and I stated it's not a bright idea.

[Performer]

Come on Firebringer; you know that if I wanted to insult you I could make it smell like roses and look like diamonds.

Drixx's quote here is too funny...what on earth?? Lol
And Killthestory on pgs 43-44...I need to check his meta because I'm stuck between laughing so hard at his posts there, and wondering what's going on

[Performer]

^ebwop: pgs 44-45 for Killthestory