Mini 500 - Cult Mafia - Game Over!

[pwayne66]

Mod Edit

Official Vote Count #40

pwayne66[4](Mastermind of Sin, Oman, curiouskarmadog, vollkan)
Kakeng[3](theopor_COD, White, Trojan Horse)
Tarhalindur[1](Tarhalindur)
Flameaxe[1](Kakeng)
Trojan Horse[1](tyhess)
White[1](Flameaxe)

Not Voting[1](pwayne66)

---

At deadline, if there is no majority of voting players, no one will be lynched. I've explained this many times, but want to be perfectly clear: 6-5 with 1 not voting is a lynch, but 6-5-1 is not a lynch.

Also, no votes after 11:59 PM Friday EST will count, whether I check the thread right then or not. Feel free to continue discussion in twilight, but a "lynch" after then will not count.

You have a little over 61 hours from the time of this post until deadline.

An interesting bit of metagaming- Yesterday Kakeng asked for a replacement in another game that I am playing with him. His cited reason? He is too much of a distraction for the town.

[White]

Ok, lots to read and think about. As I stated 2 pages ago, i'm against a Tar lynch today, if we have a vig I would love them forever if they killed Tar or Kakeng. However after thinking and reading the scenarios presented by Vollkan and general observations. We stand to gain very very little from a Kakeng lynch. We lynch a lurker and have little to no new information about his teammates if he's scum or cult.

I'm not as suspicious of Pwayne for the anti town strategy that he's pushing so much as the fact that he's fighting tooth and nail for us to lynch a claimed protown role. As MoS pointed out, lynching Tar has so little benefit because the cult (assuming it's not Tar) will attempt to recruit someone else anyway. I stand by the fact that I will not be voting Tar today. I'm much more hessitant about voting Kakeng as well due to the fact that we'd pretty much be starting back on Day 1 again.

Therefore the most suspicious person to me is Pwayne for overzealous defense of Tar and anti town ideas. Oman is close second though because reading someone in isolation and then making claims about someone else without reading in context is really bad play and you would've gotten away with bad play and not caring about the validity of your posts had someone not mentioned it.

Unvote, Vote Pwayne
FoS: Oman

[Mastermind of Sin]

Well, that leaves us here: The day of our self imposed deadline and its between me or Kakeng.

unvote

I think we need some discussion. I also advocate pushing our deadline back to thursday or Friday (our real deadline).

What I see against Kakeng is that he is lurking. Is this a good enough reason to lynch? What do we learn from his death?

It's not just lurking. It's the fact that he HAS been posting occasionally and still hasn't provided us with his breakdown of the players in the game, even though he said he would quite some time ago. His analysis so far has been minimal and seems like he was just posting it to get people off his back (he came into the game under some suspicion from acfan's lurking).

I saw your questions, but I gotta go to class.

[pwayne66]

as the fact that he's fighting tooth and nail for us to lynch a claimed protown role.

I have asked nobody to change their votes. I feel instead that I spent most of the last 3 pages defending my vote against him and the logic behind it. In the end, I conceded that my reasoning was faulty.

I have urged somebody to post any kind of case against anybody. As it was, the only case was against Kakeng and it was weak. So I made my own theory and it was bad.

That's lynch -2. It doesn't look as though there is any changing anybodies mind as there have been no questions asked of me, maybe you guys should start thinking about maximizing the info you will gather from my lynch.

[White]

Ok, post your thoughts on everyone. Ie. White has been very helpful and cooperative. He's been very analytical and done a great job scumhunting. My guess would be that's he's town.

Btw, that's just an example, not my actual thoughts or anything.

[pwayne66]

Mastermind of Sin- Pinged hard as early scum. Now I just think that he is abrasive. He has his infamous "I act scummy to lure scum" moment. I have come to believe that he made some serious errors early on and rather than fessing up, he created this bogus excuse.

Oman- Every bandwagon known to man. Has lots of FOS as a result. After today he's going to rightfully find himself in hot water.

Kakeng (r. ac1983fan)- What can I say. I think he is town via my gut.

vollkan- Still pinging scum to me, but I've got nothing, he does everything protown... a regular Mr. Robinson.

Tarhalindur (r. Dr. Blackstrike)- Yup. I defended BS earlier for saying what I am getting lynched for today. Its all ironic. Probably town.

curiouskarmadog- Seems genuine and consistant in his outrage. He did annoy me by challenging my Vanilla Tar logic. I still feel that he went out of his way to distort my position in the most unflattering light. I don't think it was malicious. We were both caught up in an emotive and contraversial debate.

tyhess- The jury is still out. He pings and then flies under the radar a bit.

Trojan Horse- I have a hard time reading him as well. Wishy-washy. Could be just impressionable town?

Flameaxe- This guy. Doesn't want to play by the same rules as the rest of us. Sticks in head in rarely and then only to make contentless posts. You think Kakeng is bad, this guy has done it the whole game.

White (r. Rump-Wat)- Pisses me off and rubs me the wrong way. That doesn't mean he is scum. It doesn't mean he is town either. Has a quirky fetish with knowing everybodies scumdars. This could be protown or proscum.

theopor_COD- speaking of quirky fetishes, this guy has been obsessed with getting AC/kakeng lynched since around page 5. He must be irked, b/c he almost got his wish until I came along.

[Trojan Horse]

Finally got a chance to weigh in. First of all:

Ok, post your thoughts on everyone. Ie. White has been very helpful and cooperative. He's been very analytical and done a great job scumhunting. My guess would be that's he's town.

I assume that was directed at Pwayne, but allow me to give my opinion on White as well. White has been very helpful and cooperative. He's been very analytical and done a great job scumhunting. My guess would be that either he's town, or that he's scum trying very hard to look like town. Could be either.

How's that?

Second of all; Pwayne may have it right on me. I guess I am wishy-washy, and an impressionable protowner.

However, I'm not so impressionable as to jump on this Pwayne bandwagon. Why are we going after him for trying to follow through on the strategy we agreed on at the start? I agree that lynching Tar now simply to deny the cult a recruit (which in fact may not prevent a recruiting tonight) is a bad idea. But so what? There doesn't seem to be any more (or less) case for Pwayne now than there was on Dr. Blackstrike before.

Also, do we really want to give Kakeng a free ride here? Kakeng may well be scum, and may have concluded that his best chance of staying alive was to act like the uber-lurker. I don't want the scum to conclude that they can win by lurking. Do we want to give the scum a free ride like that? And as for the point that we won't learn anything about anyone else by lynching Kakeng; well, we'll at least have the list of people who voted for him, and the list of those that didn't. We might be able to get something out of that.

Now, the one thing I don't want here is a no lynch. Pwayne is of average scumminess to me right now (but no worse). So if you guys are really bent on lynching him, I'll (reluctantly) join in; better to take a shot and lynch him than to have a no lynch. But I hope it doesn't come to that. Kakeng is the better choice, IMO.

[White]

Pwayne, I like scumdars because when people are lynched and nked, we get to see their opinions of everyone. If you're scum you can lead us to your buddies through what you post as your scumdar. I also like to get a feel for how your opinions of people have changed through what they've done. Does it look like a faked scumdar or a real scumdar. Yours looks fake.

"MoS - was stupid early on
Oman - short inaccurate summary
Kakeng - seems town, gut
Vollkan - too townie, must be scum
Tar - prob town, oh look, irony
CKD - i don't like him, he twisted my words purposely
Tyhess - dunno [side note, if he keeps pinging your scum senses and then lurking...why do you not think he's scum?]
TH - dunno, town?
Flameaxe - short summary
White - don't like him
Theo - short summary"

Notice how so little of this has definite opinions? I see that you don't like a few of us and other than that you say you think some people could be town but where's the definite opinions? Who's scummy? It's page 41 for heavens sake! Unexcusable. I'm happy with my vote.

[pwayne66]

Hmm.. Your saying that it inexcusable to not know who is scum in 41 pages? I think we need your scumdar as well then, I can't recall a consistant scum canidate from you either.

Unvote, Vote Pwayne
FoS: Oman

We wanna lynch lurkerscum Kakeng.

Unvote, Vote: Kakeng

Unvote, Vote Tarhalindur

Unvote, Vote Kakeng

I guess I wouldn't mind a TH lynch or a Kekeng lynch

I think we would learn a lot from a MoS lynch

I would personally prefer a Flameaxe lynch though.

MegaFoS: Trojan Horse

I guess I wouldn't mind a TH lynch or a Kekeng lynch

You have had all these suspicions (just in two weeks) yet you are ready to lynch me for the last 3 pages? If the town really wants to gain info, they need scumdars from everybody, not just me.

[pwayne66]

Who's scummy?

As far as my own list goes, I am disappointed that I have to spell it out for you.

Oman- Every bandwagon known to man. Has lots of FOS as a result. After today he's going to rightfully find himself in hot water.

tyhess- The jury is still out. He pings and then flies under the radar a bit.

Flameaxe- This guy. Doesn't want to play by the same rules as the rest of us. Sticks in head in rarely and then only to make contentless posts. You think Kakeng is bad, this guy has done it the whole game.

Trojan Horse- I have a hard time reading him as well. Wishy-washy. Could be just impressionable town?

I am at a lost why you don't think these are real comments. Is my lack of using the word "scummy" confusing? I will help:

Oman- I think that it is really really scummy that he jumps onto so many bandwagons b/c scummy people like to jump on lots and lots of bandwagons. Bandwagon hoping is a scummy thing to do.

tyhess- I think he is scummy. I have said so before. I think it is just as likely that he is making newbie mistakes.


Flameaxe- I think flameaxe is scummy. Not wanting to play by the same rules as everybody else is scummy. Making infrequent posts is scummy. Making contentless post is scummy. Some people think that Kakeng is scummy because they think that making contentless posts and lurking is scummy. I think Flameaxe is more scummy that kakeng is scummy because flameaxe has been scummy the whole game. That is scummy.

Trojan Horse- Being wishy-washy is scummy. Trojan Horse is wishy-washy, therefore, I will go out on a limb and say he is scummy.

...there you go.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Unvote

[White]

Pwayne, mocking me is unhelpful. However I do indeed appreciate you clarifying. Btw, your Tyhess explanation is fence sitting.

Btw, quoting all my suspicions, what is the point of that? I throw my vote around to acheive pressure mostly. You also discredit the use of information gathered after a vote that makes one change their vote.

MoS - Didn't like his stunt that he pulled earlier, seemed scummy to me but recently he's been actively participating and asking questions and though i'm wary of him i'd have to put him in the townie pile.

Oman - I think I defended Oman earlier on but now I regret it, he has added so little and mocked other people. His scumhunting posts could probably be listed on 1 hand. Really is a shame. Would have to put him in the scum pile.

Ok, i'm going to finish this up later because class is over.

[pwayne66]

Btw, quoting all my suspicions, what is the point of that?

I was trying to demonstrate that having definitive opinions about whether somebody is scum or not should not be a requisite at this point. I tried to do this by showing that your suspicions have been anything but definitive.

I have no desire to turn this into a snarkfest or get into distracting quibbling, so I apologize for my sarcasm. I'm finding this situation really frustrating and that is coming out in my posts. I'm off work and going home. Barring insomnia, I will not be posting until tomorrow morning.

[theopor_COD]

What I see against Kakeng is that he is lurking. Is this a good enough reason to lynch? What do we learn from his death?

And he's scummy and he's not very helpful and ac1983 fell down a big hole got outed as likely scum and left. And yeh I've got a fetish for him because I think he's scum, the only other person who concerns me as much is Trojan, mind I don't like Oman much lately either.

[curiouskarmadog]

note to all my games:

going to be a light poster for the next 3-4 days (best man in a wedding) should be back and posting regularly by Sunday/Monday.

however, i will be checking in on this game since we are so close to deadline, just dont except long posts.

[tyhess]

I'm not sold on the pwayne bandwagon....(which is probably surprising to some people).....I think his intentions were right considering most of us agreed to not claim and that we should probably lynch anyone that did. When vollkan posted his numbers, he seemed to back off (a little) of lynching tar. I am in favor of not lynching tar, but that's if we can find someone else to lynch that I think is scum. I don't think we have a case on pwayne yet that's enough to convince me, and Tar will be confusing the rest of the game.

And Kak-this is unexcusable. You have to post. You said you would and you've posted nothing.


1 last point-if I was the cult leader, I wouldn't recruit Tar, especially with all the talking about lynching him tommorow. We also should take with a grain of salt what he says and who he starts to help tommorow, because the cult leader could tell him to attach on to someone else.

[White]

Sorry, forgot about this when I came home. Continuing where I left off:

Kakeng - acfan was worthless, Kakeng is worthless. There's almost nothing here to look at. If lurkers had a posterboy, they would look over here. However kakeng has taken it a bit farther and lied to us and contributed absolutely nothing. Deserves to die today or tomorrow, preferably tomorrow but today I wouldn't be uspet with.

Vollkan - I still feel he's town. Hasn't really done that much that i've disagreed with and even when I do disagree with him it still looks like he's scum hunting. I'd put him in the townie pile.

Tar - Dr BS had an anti town mindset in the beginning of the game, then he disappeared and now Tar has claimed vanilla. I'm believing his claim of townie for now but I suggest we lynch him tomorrow or the next day at the latest because it can only be said that he'll be recruited soon.

CKD - Got a townie feel from him at first but that's kinda dropped off some with his most recent posts. He seems to be attacking for the sake of attacking rather than actually trying to show his side and show how his side is more accurate. However I can't really say that's scummy but would rather put that as a playstyle difference. Gonna put him in the townie pile too.

Pwayne - I was actually quite enjoying his posts earlier in the thread. He seemed to be biased in favor of the town, adding legit ideas, contributing to the thread and scumhunting but most recently he's been spouting a bad idea and that severely detracts from my view of him. Due to this I can't really say much about his alignment but feel he's our best shot at getting the CR and if that fails he'll be a great information lynch. However now that i'm thinking about it I do recall feeling he was town at first and i'm not ready to lynch him yet.

Unvote: Pwayne

. Notice how I said yet. If it comes down to no lynch or Pwayne i'll be voting Pwayne.

Tyhess - Honestly even though I dispise his bandwagoning to much and his lack of forethought and contribution I can't help but get the newbie town feel from him. I wish I could say otherwise to fit in but fitting in isn't my top priority. I guess to take a page from Pwayne analysis of Tyhess i'll have to fence sit here and not comment on alignment.

TH - Ah yes, TH. Consistently cracking jokes at bad times and seemingly making newbish mistakes. However his join date suggests otherwise. Even though I know we've been over this I keep getting a scummy feeling from him. Thinking about it now I guess I wouldn't mind a TH lynch today but I do think it would be better to keep him around for a day or two more. Between Pwayne and TH i'd vote TH.

Flameaxe - This needn't take long. Seems anti town. Can't get over his bias against me to contribute much. Refuses to scumhunt more than the rare time or two. I'd throw him in the scum pile and wouldn't mind lynching him today but the winds are blowing elsewhere so i'm not going to waste my time pursuing something that won't actually happen today.

Theo - Hasn't actually contributed a whole lot. I'd really like to see more out of him.

[vollkan]

The scale I will be using is 0% = Absolutely town, 100% = Absolutely scum

MoS

- I didn't have strong suspicions of him early on in the height of the wagoning with his ploy. Since then, he has been participating well. Slightly scummy, but I think more likely town. 35%.

Oman

- A few little things earlier (most notably the "developed plan" farrago). He hasn't been very helpful. 65%.

Kakeng

- Well, our lurky lurker ac1983 was replaced by a lurkier lurker. Completely unhelpful and has actually refused to post (the whole "It's still plenty of time" thing). I'd be happy with his lynch out of a combination of his lurking and obstinacy. 60%

Tarhalindur

- I was among those who weren't sold on the BS wagon. At the time, it seemed reasonable, given that we hadn't properly analysed the reality. I believe his vanilla claim; his actions make no sense at all otherwise. Having said that, his recruitment is very likely so I will be watching him like a hawk. 30%

CKD

- In my last scumdar, I said he seemed pro-town and I maintain that here. I don't get very many pings at all. 20%

Pwayne66

- I didn't have much of a read of him in my last scumdar. He was ambiguous. His latest pushing of the Tar lynch hiked up my suspicion considerably. He has since dropped it so

Unvote

. 75%

Tyhess

- What I said in my last scumdar remains unaltered: "Numerous scummy actions, but also a complete newb. He has suspicion from me, but I need to see how things develop." 60%

Trojan Horse

- A lot of small things aggregating from him
, but nothing earth-shattering. 65%.

Flameaxe

- I didn't like him early on. His only post in this whole Pwayne-Tar affair was an "I told you so". His previous posts were all useless one-liners. 70%.

White

- Forceful, direct and active (sounds like a shampoo ) Maybe a bit aggressive at times, but I often get accused of the same thing when I move into an attack on people, so I feel comfortable attributing this to playstyle. 30%

Theopor_COD

- Not very much help. His most recent stuff has been pushing for Kakeng and entirely ignoring the wagon on Pwayne. If Pwayne comes up scum, I think Theo is a potential partner. 65%

[Mastermind of Sin]

Vote: Kakeng

Let's lynch the scumz now.

[theopor_COD]

Theo - Not very much help. His most recent stuff has been pushing for Kakeng and entirely ignoring the wagon on Pwayne. If Pwayne comes up scum, I think Theo is a potential partner. 65%

Theo - Hasn't actually contributed a whole lot. I'd really like to see more out of him.

theopor_COD- speaking of quirky fetishes, this guy has been obsessed with getting AC/kakeng lynched since around page 5. He must be irked, b/c he almost got his wish until I came along.

I'm going to be blunt. This game is pissing me off, it's not fun. It's 41 pages for chrissake. No wonder Tar asked for replacement. I'd ask for replacement but I couldn't pity the game on anyone else. It's just a continuation of people babbling on about the same old things. I know short day's hurt the town but the more I think about this game, the longest days ever hurt the town aswell. The thought of re-reading everything just fills me with dread. Ok rant over.

Volkan - go back you will see that I did not avoid the Pwayne wagon, I didn't vote him no, basically because I don't think he's all that scummy in the grand scheme of things, his wish to policy lynch Tar on claiming vanilla is stupid, but I don't want to unvote Kakeng and hop onto another wagon, because frankly I think Kakeng's scum. End of story.

White - see above rant. I may if I can be bothered re-read and post a 1000 word epic but I very much doubt it will happen before the deadline and I doubt my top two suspects will change much either.

Pwayne - Dead on. I want him dead. Ideally Now.

[Mastermind of Sin]

To be fair, long days in and of themselves are not a bad thing. It's long days where people spend most of their time rehashing the same few things (ie me, waiting for lurkers/replacements, etc). I am in a mini game right now that had a 45 page D1, and I found two scum for the town in that Day. I feel the long day was beneficial to finding scum, but that's because we discussed a lot of different topics and the game never really stalled around something like it did here. This game feels like no one was really ready to commit to a lynch, and when they were, it felt like they knew it would be a bad idea to go through with it, so the game just sorta stalled while everyone waited for someone else to do something.

Disclaimer: By they I do not mean *everyone*, but I'm just generalizing cuz I can.

[vollkan]

I'm going to be blunt. This game is pissing me off, it's not fun. It's 41 pages for chrissake. No wonder Tar asked for replacement. I'd ask for replacement but I couldn't pity the game on anyone else. It's just a continuation of people babbling on about the same old things. I know short day's hurt the town but the more I think about this game, the longest days ever hurt the town aswell. The thought of re-reading everything just fills me with dread. Ok rant over.

Agreed. In my own experience, D1 should never exceed about 25 pages or so. Otherwise it just gets to the point where everyone is debating over a myriad of stuff with nothing really to go by.

Volkan - go back you will see that I did not avoid the Pwayne wagon, I didn't vote him no, basically because I don't think he's all that scummy in the grand scheme of things, his wish to policy lynch Tar on claiming vanilla is stupid, but I don't want to unvote Kakeng and hop onto another wagon, because frankly I think Kakeng's scum. End of story.

I more meant that I had not seen you make an explicit explanation either way, but this clears things up.

We need to push this along.

Vote: Kakeng

[Tarhalindur]

With deadline approaching and discussion going in circles, I fail to see how a bandwagon vote is a bad thing.

Unvote, Vote: Kakeng

[Mastermind of Sin]

5 on kakeng. I'd like a claim, then we can finish him off with a few more votes.

[theopor_COD]

I make it 6.

P.S I claim vanilla townie.