Mini 1774: Formation of America's Mafiascum - Perfect Town W

[Ranger]

Oh, and the mods still haven't gotten back to me yet (don't think either has logged on since last night), but I'm still catching up today regardless.

Right now, from the posting that I've seen since my entrance: Firebringer is very probably town.
Alchemist21 looks town to me, but I don't know his play at all (I think this is our first game together), so I wouldn't know what he's capable of as scum.
Neither Nosferatu nor Dierfire have been particularly alarming, but they also haven't particularly stuck out as being town.
Suzune is alarming me: her posts superficially look town, but they

feel

different from her town play as I remember it. That's sent off alarm bells.

itlepip's hypocrisy and Persivul interaction is also questionable, but Persivul is strongly tripping my scumdar.

So,
{Firebringer}
{Alchemist21}
{Nosferatu, Dierfire}
{Suzune}
{itlepip, Persivul}
Is where I'm at approximately.

I realize Klingoncelt and Killthestory were left out, but that's mainly because I had forgotten about their posting, whereas I hadn't forgotten about Dierfire and Nosferatu.

For the record: 1074 does seem to fit my first theory. Suzune, if scum, probably wouldn't bus. But a scumbuddy in the null makes sense, especially itlepip with that explanation. Suzune, if scum, probably would also put a scumbuddy in the top tier. It's not Firebringer, so that leaves {Alchemist21, Persivul}. But, obviously, this is only valid if Suzune is, as I suspect, scum.

[Ranger]

Oh.

Right.

Two scum left, not three.

That changes things. Hold please. Need to read.

[Ranger]

Huh, miscounted, didn't know BBMolla was in this game.

Well, add him to the Klingoncelt/Killthestory tier for the moment. Still starting my read.

[Ranger]

{Firebringer}
{Alchemist21, Killthestory}
{Nosferatu, Dierfire, Klingoncelt}
{BBMolla}
{Suzune}
{itlepip, Persivul}

One.

[Ranger]

{Firebringer}
{Alchemist21, Killthestory, Nosferatu}
{Dierfire, Klingoncelt}
{BBMolla}
{Suzune}
{itlepip}
{Persivul}

Three.

VOTE: Persivul.

[Persivul]

For the record: I don't like Persivul's white knight of my slot, nor the sudden turnaround on it. This behavior matches his scum game and not his town game.

What games are you referring to?

[Ranger]

{Firebringer, Nosferatu}
{Alchemist21, Killthestory}
{Dierfire, Klingoncelt}
{BBMolla}
{Suzune}
{itlepip}
{Persivul}

Four.

[Ranger]

What games are you referring to?

Every scum game of yours where I was town.

For a start? This behavior matches Open 612 to a T. (Or more accurately, to an S. :P) That's by far not the only game, but I'd need to find the others, don't have which games you were scum in memorized except that and Blitz 1. (But there, I was your scumbuddy.)

[Ranger]

{Firebringer, Nosferatu}
{Alchemist21, Killthestory}
{Dierfire}
{Klingoncelt}
{BBMolla}
{Suzune}
{itlepip}
{Persivul}

Five.

[Persivul]

Who did I WK and then turn around and condemn in the next post in Open 612? And what other scum games did I do it in?

Really though with this start on top of the beeboy ISO and beeboy's activity in our last scum game, I'm cool going up against you. Let's do it!

VOTE: Ranger

[Ranger]

{Firebringer, Nosferatu}
{Alchemist21, Killthestory}
{Dierfire}
{Klingoncelt, BBMolla}
{Suzune}
{itlepip}
{Persivul}

Six.

[Suzune]

Ranger it is a sincere improvement that I look less town. Seriously my last few games everyone was like yep Suzune is town move along. Which does not keep one alive a lot unless you are scum. So I feel proud of myself. Although I think you rely too much on meta. Just my opinion on the matter. Different roles need different play. Why are you counting reads lists?

[Ranger]

Who did I WK and then turn around and condemn in the next post in Open 612?

It wasn't the very next post, but...ironically enough?

Me.

You White Knighted me. You then turned around to scumreading me.

[Ranger]

I actually do buy 1111 for what it's worth.

[Suzune]

Fear not I scum read your slot. So we can tango.

[Persivul]

{Firebringer}
{Alchemist21, Killthestory}
{Nosferatu, Dierfire, Klingoncelt}
{BBMolla}
{Suzune}
{itlepip, Persivul}

One.

Are these page numbers that you've read through? Cause I didn't post until page 3...

[Ranger]

{Firebringer, Nosferatu, Killthestory}
{Alchemist21}
{Dierfire}
{Suzune}
{Klingoncelt, BBMolla}
{itlepip}
{Persivul}

Seven.

[itlepip]

but pushing easy null pushes Peri is incredibly scummy so either make a case as to why Kling is scum that isn't just 'Kling pings me a little' which totally worked well with Shiro or sheep me on Bboy to actually kill scum.

Question.

Am I wrong in assuming beeboy was an easy null push? Because my impression of beeboy, both from this game in second-hand accounts and from his gameplay in general across the board, is that he is almost always an easy null push.

He isn't null. In my mind, which I've fully laid out the reasoning for, I am fairly certain that your slot is scum. This doesn't work as a defense because first is your slot, second because you are trying to draw a completely false comparison. Kling hasn't been super town by all measures, but saying that we should lynch Kling cause of weak vote logic d1 as well the fact that Kling's reads d2 stank when both of those things are honestly kinda of null is completely different than Bboy who has played his scum game this game. He has lied about his capacity to bus, made a huge huge deal about his cakez scumread more than anything else he's done this game because he knew it was a bus, and generally just played scummy.

So, do correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this hypocritical?

Nope see above.

For the record: I don't like Persivul's white knight of my slot, nor the sudden turnaround on it. This behavior matches his scum game and not his town game.

His flip on your slot was the towniest thing his slot has done this game, also you can't WK scum.

I don't want to go into it this game, but its your attitude after Fire and Ice, and previous games in the Blitz queue.

Fair enough. But for what it's worth: I hold you to a high standard of play. You're a

good

player. I haven't thought of it this way before consciously, but I think one of the main reasons I've been harsh on your play before is

because

you're a good player, which means whenever you have a failing, it sticks out all the more obviously as being such.

Oh, and the mods still haven't gotten back to me yet (don't think either has logged on since last night), but I'm still catching up today regardless.

Right now, from the posting that I've seen since my entrance: Firebringer is very probably town.

What posts?

Alchemist21 looks town to me, but I don't know his play at all (I think this is our first game together), so I wouldn't know what he's capable of as scum.

Same as above.

Neither Nosferatu nor Dierfire have been particularly alarming, but they also haven't particularly stuck out as being town.
Suzune is alarming me: her posts superficially look town, but they

feel

different from her town play as I remember it. That's sent off alarm bells.

Can you give concrete meta here?

itlepip's hypocrisy and Persivul interaction is also questionable, but Persivul is strongly tripping my scumdar.

So,
{Firebringer}
{Alchemist21}
{Nosferatu, Dierfire}
{Suzune}
{itlepip, Persivul}
Is where I'm at approximately.

I realize Klingoncelt and Killthestory were left out, but that's mainly because I had forgotten about their posting, whereas I hadn't forgotten about Dierfire and Nosferatu.

Kill has been a huge influence on this game, how in the hell did you forget about that slot?

For the record: 1074 does seem to fit my first theory. Suzune, if scum, probably wouldn't bus. But a scumbuddy in the null makes sense, especially itlepip with that explanation. Suzune, if scum, probably would also put a scumbuddy in the top tier. It's not Firebringer, so that leaves {Alchemist21, Persivul}. But, obviously, this is only valid if Suzune is, as I suspect, scum.

[itlepip]

Also how have I improved in your readlist when I didn't join the game until day 2 and you are on page 7?

[Ranger]

Are these page numbers that you've read through? Cause I didn't post until page 3...

Yes, but they are not based 100% solely on those pages. They also take into account current posting. They're

mostly

the early pages (for instance, Suzune looked more town on her own merits there), but I'm not ignoring the latest content when making them (using that same example, buying Suzune's 1111).

When I replace into a game, two things are expected of me:

1. Reading the thread and getting caught up on the current gamestate,
2. And staying up to date on the current happenings of the game.

So when I'm first listing, I'll read the content since my replace-in announcement (maybe a few posts before, circumstances depending), keep up to date on more recent posts, and then start reading through the thread. I continue this process until caught up, becoming aware of new posts as I post content and reading new material concurrently to old.

[Persivul]

It wasn't the very next post,

So, you haven't seen this behavior in me as scum before. You've seen my reads change over time and pages as scum. They also do that as town.

[Persivul]

Spoiler:

I need to catch up. I voted for freedom of assembly. Since there was a hated before, I thought this might give us a loved.

Just did quite a bit of review and I don't see why kling isn't back on the board. She was on the Window CW to cakez and on the Shiro lynch. She's mostly defended and her few reads are weak and feel like scum making the obligatory list under pressure.

VOTE: Klingoncelt

Beeboy was on the cakez lynch. Kling was on the counter wagon.

I just read beeboy's ISO and I don't see scum there at all. Your 975 reminds me of when I'm scum and want to manufacture a case on someone.

Snap, beeboy is now Ranger. This should be interesting.

She asked me to say it.
She is continueing to write a narrative where I am twisting her words which I am not doing.
I am obv town me and cakes would have scum reads on each other when we where both easy wagon contenders day 1 when

we both don't like to bus

.

I am so ok with my vote it isn't funny.

oh beeboy, clearly I was teasing you. Sorry if you missed it.

You are far from obvious town though.

Did you play borderlands 2?

Cakes never gave a good reason for me being scum day 1 for a reason.
He never tried getting me lynched beyond that for a reason.

I hard town read both my buddies when they where under pressure for a reason.

As players we don't bus

and it is obv you should know that if you are really critically scum reading me right now.

UNVOTE:
Does not look like the best option right now.

Huh you may actually be town after all.

If it is any consolation I still like you for scum.

Then go reread my interaction with cakes again.
Out of all the viable wagons he could have pushed when he was at L-3 he wouldn't choose a scum buddy since I could help him drive a mislynch.
Also

I wouldn't just hard bus

a buddy like that.

Sorry folks, tax season has me brain dead. I went to do some meta on beeboy and realized that I just finished a game with him (Open 630) in which he was scum, and bussed his partner D1. Not liking him so much now.

OK, these posts were enough to put me at the bottom of your reads. Seems a little like OMGUS...

[Suzune]

For the record: 1074 does seem to fit my first theory. Suzune, if scum, probably wouldn't bus. But a scumbuddy in the null makes sense, especially itlepip with that explanation. Suzune, if scum, probably would also put a scumbuddy in the top tier. It's not Firebringer, so that leaves {Alchemist21, Persivul}. But, obviously, this is only valid if Suzune is, as I suspect, scum.

Im not sure if one is supposed to discuss theory someone else wrote about them, but I would like to think that Alchemist and I were not previously paired together considering I had to explain my nightaction to him in the topic. Then have the moderator correct me about how it works on the topic. One would assume that would have already happened elsewhere. I try not to make mistakes like that where everyone can see them.

P-edit, um Peri, why are you so worried. You are my gut town read and you are making me worried and when I am worried reads change.

[Dierfire]

All right, I return.

Here is a summary of where I am.
I think that Firebringer, Suzune, and Alchemist21 will sort themselves out. Of those, Alchemist21 was my strongest read for Town, which further lends credence to Suzune's approach. I am least confident in Firebringer due to his position on the Window Attack wagon.
Nosferatu seemed unlikely to be a partner of SirCakez on D1. I'm looking especially at P17 with the case that SirCakez developed on Nosferatu (413), the reply by Nosferatu (416), and the response by SirCakez (419). To me, the tone of the responses by SirCakez seems to be actually requesting a response (that is, not just making noise).
I reviewed Persivul in ISO. I think that my residual read on him as Town was from his first vote. Since then, the only thing that supported my read was his initial reaction to the situation with Firebringer and Suzune, which I thought was persistent in a Town manner (or possibly in a manner that would indicate that he and Klingoncelt are both Mafia).
Klingoncelt is mostly suspicious to me for her positioning on the Window Attack wagon. I still don't see a reason for SirCakez to avoid that wagon if they were planning on killing Window Attack anyway unless he had partners there. On the other hand, I thought that her belligerence when it looked as though she would be lynched was anticipating vindication when lynched.
I liked the case on beeboy (now Ranger) by itlepip, but the same bit about the Window Attack wagon applies there.
I reviewed Killthestory in ISO and I find his style difficult to read. I'm going to say that I'm leaning Town on him. I think that his approach to Klingoncelt is what I'd expect from him as Town.

Once again I've come to a point at which I think that I've too many people as Town. My plan is to wait for Ranger to finish catching up and assess her slot again. Meanwhile I will be identifying those players in whom I am least confident of my read as Town for further evaluation.

[itlepip]

Wait what about the Window Attack wagon?