Mini 1762: Game Over

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: syn

@mod

prods pls

[Syndesis]

hi

tired + no time

sorry

Spoiler: incoherent??

scumflip yaaaas

rc nooooo

ras pls

gif is ?

implosion is ??

nino where??

kirroha is?

moi, how have these flips caused you to reevaluate?

[Raskolnikov]

Syn, you're asking if MoI re-evaluated his reads based on the flip(s) but technically you shouldn't care or want him to because he's scumreading me and yesterday you pushed me-gr as the scumteam

[MagnaofIllusion]

So Radiant was Town doing a stupid Town lying obvious fake-claim as opposed to Scum lying obvious fake-claim. Well at least with his flip we get very good information that helps to narrow down the possibilities.

We basically have 3 lynches to get the last 2 scum. Nino or whoever replaces into that slot is confirmed Town via mass claim. There is at max 1 scum in GIF / Implosion, with a possibility of zero. So today those three are obviously off the board as far as lynch goes. That leave myself, Syd, Kir and Rash as possible lyches. Clearly I’m not supporting a lynch on myself and after yesterday I don’t see Syn as a good choice personally. That leaves Kir or Rask in my book as far as who I will support today.

VOTE: Kirroha

She pretty much is displaying the classic Amished tell most of day one … aka noticing your partners is scummy for reasons no-one else picks up on.

Anyone who want to know why can look at my general case at 1672 but it would be just as easy to look through her ISO combined with all the components of the Robster slot. She begins as she is under pressure herself and votes for “scummy-vote hopping” and deflecting attention from Robster’s partners BBT (Town) and Synd. She doesn’t really push on the slot after dropping her vote there. Instead she tries to link Robster’s slot to others (example Kill’s slot at 386).

Also just noticed this bit which escaped me in my prior reads –

Okay, I am a little confused by all the reads flying here and there. So I'll just ask a simple question to everyone here: If you were a Compulsive Vigilante, who is the player that you will shoot tonight and why?

This is an absolutely odd question. Yet now that we have confirmation of Gunsmith and Nino’s limited shot Vig this make perfect sense as a member of a scum team fishing to see which partner might be the best protect Night 1.

But back to the Kirroha and Robster show –

It's near the end of the day. Shortcut was the only consistently scummy read I have so far. I'm not moving my vote without good reason. And most people only came on this wagon late anyway, because we're all under time pressure to get a lynch done - it was never a wagon that could be kept up for very long, which makes me more confident about this read. I'm not letting Taisho get away by just not posting.

Hi Golden Robster, welcome to the game and really sorry you have to replace in on such an imminent deadline. So your slot previously roleclaimed 2-shot Role Cop, do you confirm or deny that claim?

Why the fuck did my predecessor claim 2-shot role cop?



Claiming VT.

15 minute's delay isn't bad at all. I have to rethink my Shortcut/Taisho/Robster slot vote.

Will be happy to go on the Kill wagon at this point. Guys, what are your thoughts? Robster claimed VT.

How in the bloody hell is a VT claim a good reason to unvote her claimed only consistent scum read? The answer – it isn’t. Yet that’s exactly what Kirroha did 1 minute after the last post while transitioning to Kill (Town) and sublimating her read to Radiant.

Frankly the whole “15 minutes” point is absolute garbage anyway. Any more than 2 minutes is more than sufficient time for someone to ISO their predecessor and see if they actually made that claim. Not to mention since we know Mafia have enabled Daytalk so any claims made by scum are going to be clearly posted there.

I could go on but I think I’ve already posted more than enough given half of you are more or less admitting you aren’t bothering to read my post anyway.

--

Flip more-or-less clears kirroha though I guess I should doublecheck.

I noticed this double-check never came. Not surprised.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Personally I think Kirroha is the best chance for scum. Rask is the only other lynch I'll support today but I'd much much perfer Kirroha. Anyone who thinks she's somehow clear need to explain why in a sufficient level of detail.

[Raskolnikov]

No, I'm still planning to I'm just inexplicably tired

[NinoMasaki]

Rasko and/or Syndesis is the scum.

VOTE: Syndesis

[NinoMasaki]

Kirroha is clear because she is definitely innocent. MOI I now believe you are also town but you are tunneling way too much. You are pretty much taking every post you are reading and force-fitting it into a scum possibility. If you want to vote Rasko let us vote Rasko together, but I think Syndesis is more likely and senpai said so too.

[NinoMasaki]

MOI, if several confirmed town people are absolutely sure that Kirroha is innocent (and all these confirmed town people just happened to have died) then bear in mind that you are probably wrong in scumreading her, and scum is keeping you alive just so you can mislynch her. Please stop being stubborn and see the truth. >_<"

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOI, if several confirmed town people are absolutely sure that Kirroha is innocent (and all these confirmed town people just happened to have died) then bear in mind that you are probably wrong in scumreading her, and scum is keeping you alive just so you can mislynch her. Please stop being stubborn and see the truth. >_<"

Nino being confirmed Town frankly means bubkis on that front. I hate to be blunt but it's true. Confirmed Town certainly be just as wrong as living Town. Radiant was dead wrong on BBT. Instead of just sticking to your "I think Kirroha is Town" stance why don't you review my cases on her and tell me where I'm wrong and why. Because a flat out "I think she's Town" isn't helpful no matter how correct you think you are. Frankly Kirroha has buddied you hard this game (and she also did Radiant) and I think that's clouded your ability to read her.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Rasko and/or Syndesis is the scum.

VOTE: Syndesis

Why are you voting Syndesis then? I'd like some actual explanation from you on this front. Because if you believe Rask is scum then yesterday both scum Golden and scum Rask were pushing that slot hard. Had Radiant not decided to go away from Syn I don't think my stance would have stopped the Synd lynch. Do you realistically think both other scum would powerbus Synd when my slot was unpopular after my entrance?

Likewise if Rado is Town and Synd is scum why would Golden have gone to the mat bussing his partner when a Rasko lynch was also viable and had proponents (I would certainly have gone there over Synd)?

And you do know we have 2 scum left for sure, correct? Unless you are wanting to claim limited shot 3rd party which I don't think is your intention.

[NinoMasaki]

Sir I don't want to be rude but there is literally nothing to say... >_<" You took every single possible q

[NinoMasaki]

Sir I don't want to be rude but there is literally nothing to say... >_<" You took every single possible quote and then tried to force-fit into a scum theory. Anyone can be force-fit into a scum theory if you try. What you didn't do is to not look at anyone else with the thought that Kirroha is town. I won't even argue with you because you had nothing to show, just a lot of words...

[NinoMasaki]

We can just vote Rasko instead, I suspect him and Syndesis. VOTE: Rasko

[NinoMasaki]

Remember that all the people who died are people who believe Kirroha is town...

[Raskolnikov]

If you suspect me and syndesis as a team can we at least lynch him first because I don't really mind trading 1 for 1

[MagnaofIllusion]

If you suspect me and syndesis as a team can we at least lynch him first because I don't really mind trading 1 for 1

Nah. If you two are a team I want you eating rope first for certain.

[Raskolnikov]

Okay, let's play a game.
Everyone vote between me and syndesis, though if you get me you have to get syndesis next day.
After that I'd recommend MoI though there's an outside chance he's just town playing really badly.

I don't mind using my life here if it gets scum lynched and tbh nobodies going to listen to what I say while they still suspect me anyways.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Sir I don't want to be rude but there is literally nothing to say... >_<" You took every single possible quote and then tried to force-fit into a scum theory. Anyone can be force-fit into a scum theory if you try. What you didn't do is to not look at anyone else with the thought that Kirroha is town. I won't even argue with you because you had nothing to show, just a lot of words...

Translation - you didn't actually bother to read my cases. That's ok. You seem to be conflating confirmed Town with infallible. That will change with time I'm sure. Carry on and at least be active.

[implosion]

Idk moi. like, I see some of the things you're saying but a lot of it I'm tending to agree with nino on; like, the compulsive vigilante thing is really stretching it. That's a pretty reasonable question to ask from town or scum trying to get a sense of people's reads if they're feeling a bit lost. Idk, looking at your general case there are a lot of things that I want to say about it but they aren't really that accurate. It feels like some of the things you're accusing her of are more personality tells, like the way that she interacted with her supposed scumreads, and some others feel like a deeper level of planning than I'd expect 3 pages into a game. Some of them are pretty good points. I think the thing that gives me most pause on review is the play around the gr vt claim. It does feel somewhat abrupt, or like she took the now-active replacement as an excuse to not have to actually go through with the bus. But the vt claim still feels town at a gut level. Like, 380 does not feel made up to me. I feel like that post would be very difficult to fake effectively as scum and it looks like a genuine reaction to me, even more so on re-reading through it. Some things in it are a little odd (like saying she'd claim macho townie with a gun or whatever) but ultimately that post feels like that of a townie who was trying to explain why what they did was actually obviously town play.

I guess I can see her as possible scum. But not as much as rask or gif. I don't remember ever seeing gif do anything; I just kind of forgot about him when I lost all motivation and RC kind of ignored him presumably because of the gs inno. I think I might be able to see her as scum more so than syndesis. I think I'd put my reads at something like rask > gif > kirro > synd > moi from scum -> town at this point.

I'm probably not going to have the motivation to enter a sustained dialogue about kirroha (end of semester/college is really sapping a lot of that at arbitrary times) but I guess I do feel like lynching rask+gif+kirro should win the game like 95%. I really don't see synd or magna as scum. And of that I think I'd put rask+gif at like 80-85%? I really have a hard time getting past any of the feelings of thinking the others are town. Again kirro is like possible but I really don't think that vt thing was faked.

[MagnaofIllusion]

But the vt claim still feels town at a gut level. Like, 380 does not feel made up to me. I feel like that post would be very difficult to fake effectively as scum and it looks like a genuine reaction to me, even more so on re-reading through it. Some things in it are a little odd (like saying she'd claim macho townie with a gun or whatever) but ultimately that post feels like that of a townie who was trying to explain why what they did was actually obviously town play.

I guess I can see her as possible scum. But not as much as rask or gif. I don't remember ever seeing gif do anything; I just kind of forgot about him when I lost all motivation and RC kind of ignored him presumably because of the gs inno. I think I might be able to see her as scum more so than syndesis. I think I'd put my reads at something like rask > gif > kirro > synd > moi from scum -> town at this point.

Meh. I think “genuine reaction” is a pretty darn poor basis for judgement because I don’t feel there is much in a forum Mafia game that can’t be put together post-wise by Mafia trying to play as scum from an emotional standpoint. And many of Kirroha’s touchpoints in that “Why would I do something so dumb as scum” posting fall flat as it is an appeal to proficiency – if I was scum why would I do something so terrible? Players make bad plays regardless of alignment.

That being said I’m going back to re-read Rask and Synd now that Robster is a confirmed flip to refresh my position on both.

I see the generic why you think GiF is scum but could you lay out a case for both Rask and Gif / Ink in your own words? Before I dump my content I’d like to see where you are generating your reads from.

[NinoMasaki]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=65283

I was reading this completed game, which was apparently started about the same time as this game. Kirroha used the same method to catch a replacement as she tried on Golden Robster in this game. The posts were pretty close to each other. I think it is unlikely she used the same method as town and scum in two different games at around the same time. It is more likely she is town in both.

[MagnaofIllusion]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=65283

I was reading this completed game, which was apparently started about the same time as this game. Kirroha used the same method to catch a replacement as she tried on Golden Robster in this game. The posts were pretty close to each other. I think it is unlikely she used the same method as town and scum in two different games at around the same time. It is more likely she is town in both.

Um whut? The link you show doesn't support that at all. She pulls the claim now on AA-dona who didn't answer, she called scum, and who flipped Town.

Your feeling that it is unlikely she would use as Scum in a game because she used it as Town in another game is meta. And poorly used meta as you don't have any concrete reason to think what you do.

[kirroha]

I'm surprised you guys found that game.

Magna I don't really want to argue with you. Besides, I pulled that claim on SarasaKat, not aa-dono. But regardless.

I am up for lynching Rask or Syndesis.

[Syndesis]

I think I'm kind of burned out on this game. Apologies for the incoherence, again. I can try to articulate this better but aaaaah.

Syn, you're asking if MoI re-evaluated his reads based on the flip(s) but technically you shouldn't care or want him to because he's scumreading me and yesterday you pushed me-gr as the scumteam :?

I have problems with this post.

If you suspect me and syndesis as a team can we at least lynch him first because I don't really mind trading 1 for 1 :D

And this post.

Okay, let's play a game.
Everyone vote between me and syndesis, though if you get me you have to get syndesis next day.
After that I'd recommend MoI though there's an outside chance he's just town playing really badly.

I don't mind using my life here if it gets scum lynched and tbh nobodies going to listen to what I say while they still suspect me anyways.

There's something here I dislike but what is it?

-

Other thoughts:

I can't figure out why kirroha pinged me town anymore and I don't like her recent posting as much :| I don't think I see kirroha + Ras though.

The way GiF responded to RC's inno is odd but I'm not sure whether it's scum-odd or town-odd.