California Trilogy - Dantès in Fresno (Game Over!)

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

do you believe in coincidences?

[Gaspar]

Yes. Why?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I don't.

[LoudmouthLee]

There is not any other way I could defend myself. I am telling you that I didn't do it. I am telling you that if you lynch me, you're lynching a nearly confirmed innocent (I said Nearly...) as evidenced by the cubsfan duel.

I am no longer answering questions in regards to this. I say we need to get to lynching Grey. We need to get to lynching him now. He is obviously a lynchable character. Pooky, please get your head out of your ass and read DP13.

[IH]

Two thoughts about that post, on just how it LOOKS.

First off, it looks like Lee is panicked. I rarely see the statement "There's no other way I can defend myself, I didn't do it!" from anyone but a newbie player. Why this choice of words? We know that Lee.

Also the second part looks more like a distraction at hand.

Lee, what is your opinion on Glorkpod and DP? How about Pooky for that matter?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I find it amazing that it's a phrase you use commonly yet you can't give a single timestamped example.

But you can remember something you supposedly wrote up a very long time ago.

Frankly speaking I don't think the duel means anything considering Cubs didn't even know who he was.

[Mr. Grey]

Vote Count:

8 to lynch.

MrBuddyLee: 2 (Dragon Phoenix, VitaminR)
IH: 1 (Talitha)
Talitha: 1 (LoudmouthLee)

Current Condorcet Winner:

None. Current Smith Set: Cogito Ergo Sum, Sarcastro/Dani Banani, Dragon Phoenix, foolinc, Gaspar, IH, logicticus, LoudmouthLee, MrBuddyLee, PookyTheMagicalBear, Talitha, Tamuz, VitaminR, Zindaras, No Lynch, Mr. Grey

To view the complete table of pairwise results, put this information in this form.

[foolinc]

Pooky: Might telling me why, if you think the duel didn't mean anything, you didn't say anything about it day 2?

Sarcastro: You haven't answered Tali's question about why you'd think it's odd for someone to "have a player who noticed something suspicious about another player on my condorcet?" Post 1130

Tamuz: Why is "Pooky is on the up and up" (His 28th post) and why did you end your post with "I am Jack's complete disgust." in your 27th post.

Everyone who believes LML is scum: Why do you think LML would kill xyzzy?

[foolinc]

Should have previewed be for posting, since I didn't notice the new vote count. Looks like Gaspar's theory has some merit since Violet didn't work.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I wasn't convinced it meant nothing till today and I wanted to see if Lee would be alive today.

Think about it, either Cubs was a complete whackjob and was lying through his teeth, or he was lied to by the moderator, or the moderator is screwing with us through some other mechanism since he claimed Count of Monte Cristo and showed up as Kirk Kerkorian.

If he's a complete whackjob and lying through his teeth, we have no reason to believe what he says about the duel.

If he was lied to by the moderator, then we have no reason to believe what happened in the duel or what he said.

If the mod is screwing with us, we have no reason to believe what happened in the duel.

[Talitha]

He wasn't lying through his teeth because the function of his role as he claimed it was

confirmed

by the mod posting the duel.

I have very little doubt that Cubs believed he was the Count of Monte Cristo.

[Talitha]

I also agree that the choice of xyzzy as a kill doesn't make sense. But there might be some restriction that we don't know about. E.g. maybe xyzzy posted something that made him susceptible to being killed.

[Sarcastro]

Sarcastro: You haven't answered Tali's question about why you'd think it's odd for someone to "have a player who noticed something suspicious about another player on my condorcet?" Post 1130

That's probably because I'm not LML. Why are you so eager to have me answer someone else's question when it's obvious that you don't even care enough about the question to know to whom it was addressed?

Also, Pooky's convinced me with regards to the LML-lace thing.

Unvote, Vote: LoudmouthLee

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

yes talitha, however we have no idea what a "duel" actually does, he says that it is supposed to do this and that, but if the mod lied to him about his identity, what else could the moderator have left out?

Do you believe Kirk Kerkorian is capable of killing a mafia member in a duel?

[Talitha]

All I was meaning is that I think there's some mod funny business as it's the only explanation for what we saw. Cubs wasn't lying. I agree with you that this means the duel "result" should not be relied upon as evidence of innocence.

[Talitha]

Heck, maybe Mr Grey is a ratbag in this game. Heh, I'm starting to second guess myself on that. I don't wanna waste a lynch on him at this point, but what would happen if a vig tried to take out Mr Grey.. would the game be declared mod-abandoned?? Sheesh, I can't believe I am entertaining these thoughts.

Back to the lynching. Who is not voting, and why not?

[Gaspar]

This vote should be pretty self-explanatory:

Unvote
Vote: Mr. Grey

, MrBuddyLee, Talitha, PookyTheMagicalBear, [CES, Sarcastro, Dragon Phoenix, logicticus, Tamuz, VitaminR, Zindaras], [LoudmouthLee, IH, foolinc], No Lynch, Gaspar

[Zindaras]

I think the whole Mr. Grey as player discussion is a useless tangent. While I can't say I know mith's modding style, I don't think he'd use this kind of role, mainly because I think it's just plain silly.

and at this time, I am choosing to see Grey (assuming he is in fact in the game as a poisoner) as almost certainly a threat.

I think these are dangerous assumptions to make. I also think Glork is being too hasty with assumign that Mr. Grey must be scum if he is a part of the game. The comparison to MBL in Snakes on a Plane is definitely unwarranted, as MBL wasn't the mod in that game.

Tally's 1028 is bad.

foolinc: did not buy his doctor claim fully yesterday, but two scum groups could indeed have relied on the other to take care of him.

Do you really think that any scumteam would expect another scumteam after the events of Night 1?

I don't think LACE is a coincidence, here's why: It's linked to poison, it was used along with the victim's name right before he died, if the search function is to be believed, the word 'lace' has not been used by anyone on mafiascum since 2003, and it reminds me of the kinds of roles that mith had in Verbose 2 (The mafia had to post a certain phrase publicly in order to recruit the traitor). Just my opinion, but Lee is looking mighty shady right now.

The Mafia had to say "Et tu, Brute?" which, while technically incorrect (Julius Caesar never said "Et tu, Brute?". Rather, he said "Kai su, teknon?") is still a pretty famous quote. This is hardly a famous quote.

Lace does mean to poison, point taken, but it also means those pretty little doilies that people have on their endtables. You know, the ones that you put on a glasstop so the vase doesn't scratch the glass? Yeah. That's a lace.

Shoelaces!

Foolinc (town)

Why are you so sure about this?

I find it amazing that it's a phrase you use commonly yet you can't give a single timestamped example.

But you can remember something you supposedly wrote up a very long time ago.

I think these are good points.

Current Condorcet list, this warrants an update.

Vote: Talitha

, MrBuddyLee, IH, LoudmouthLee, [Dani Banani, Gaspar, Tamuz, Cogito Ergo Sum, logicticus, Dragon Phoenix], VitaminR, PookyTheMagicalBear, No Lynch, foolinc, Zindaras

[Zindaras]

Dani Banani should be Sarcastro, obviously.

[Gaspar]

I think the whole Mr. Grey as player discussion is a useless tangent. While I can't say I know mith's modding style, I don't think he'd use this kind of role, mainly because I think it's just plain silly.

and at this time, I am choosing to see Grey (assuming he is in fact in the game as a poisoner) as almost certainly a threat.

I think these are dangerous assumptions to make. I also think Glork is being too hasty with assumign that Mr. Grey must be scum if he is a part of the game. The comparison to MBL in Snakes on a Plane is definitely unwarranted, as MBL wasn't the mod in that game.

Just a qiuck note: I find it amusing that you're critcizing the MBL-SoaP reference, which suggests taht godlike

protown

roles exist, while simultaneously criticizing my conclusion that Grey is probably scum.

Incidentally, what do you think of the fact that Grey can be voted for, but no other flavor-based characters or nonplayers can be voted for?

foolinc: did not buy his doctor claim fully yesterday, but two scum groups could indeed have relied on the other to take care of him.

Do you really think that any scumteam would expect another scumteam after the events of Night 1?

Sure. Say Group 1 killed Battle Mage while Group 2 attempted to kill Loudmouthlee. Neither group killed Fool, yet Group 2 would know that there's a different killing group out there. Furthermore, as people have already suggested, knowing the size of one's scumgroup might lead towards the belief that there are two scumgroups based on numbers.

Note to self: This is a sign that, if there are two scumgroups, Zindaras is either playacting very well or he's not scum. If there's one group, I think the chances of him being scum increase slightly.

Foolinc (town)

Why are you so sure about this?

Because it's obvobv.

[Zindaras]

Just a qiuck note: I find it amusing that you're critcizing the MBL-SoaP reference, which suggests taht godlike

protown

roles exist, while simultaneously criticizing my conclusion that Grey is probably scum.

I criticise everything that I think warrants criticism. I'm not going to post something obviously wrong just because it agrees with me (because it does not, in fact, help me, since it is wrong)

Incidentally, what do you think of the fact that Grey can be voted for, but no other flavor-based characters or nonplayers can be voted for?

I think it's odd, but I don't think we should rush into lynching him. If we can interact with him via votes, then we can probably interact with him via roles as well.

Sure. Say Group 1 killed Battle Mage while Group 2 attempted to kill Loudmouthlee. Neither group killed Fool, yet Group 2 would know that there's a different killing group out there. Furthermore, as people have already suggested, knowing the size of one's scumgroup might lead towards the belief that there are two scumgroups based on numbers.

Ah, that is correct, but Group 1 wouldn't know. Also, numbers are a very bad thing to base assumptions on. Traitors aren't unlikely roles.

Note to self: This is a sign that, if there are two scumgroups, Zindaras is either playacting very well or he's not scum. If there's one group, I think the chances of him being scum increase slightly.

Wait, what?

Because it's obvobv.

It is obvobv, yes, but I'm curious as to why you think it's obvious.

[Gaspar]

Incidentally, what do you think of the fact that Grey can be voted for, but no other flavor-based characters or nonplayers can be voted for?

I think it's odd, but I don't think we should rush into lynching him. If we can interact with him via votes, then we can probably interact with him via roles as well.

Okay, allow me to rephrase:
If you had to choose right now, would you posit that Grey is scum, protown, or a red herring?

Note to self: This is a sign that, if there are two scumgroups, Zindaras is either playacting very well or he's not scum. If there's one group, I think the chances of him being scum increase slightly.

Wait, what?

The two scumgroups thing makes sense because your response makes it look like you didn't think about things from a "two scumgroup" perspective.
Looking at the "one scumgroup" thing, I'm really not sure how I got you being slightly more scummy, but it made sense in my head. My thought process was roughly as follows:
If there is only one scumgroup, the number of scums in their group probably makes sense

Because it's obvobv.

It is obvobv, yes, but I'm curious as to why you think it's obvious.

*shrug*
I think the role and name check out well enough, I buy Foolinc's explanation as to why he targeted LmL, none of the reactions from other players appaer to be of the "protecting a scumbuddy" nature, and Foolinc would be suicidal to claim Doctor as a Serial Killer. Based on observations and overall impressions, I would be absolutely floored if he turned out to be protown. He's pretty much confirmed in my eyes, even if he's not technically 100% confirmed all-around.

Removed broken tags. - Mod

[Gaspar]

Oh dear god. I'm in a meeting right now, and I skipped outlining my thought process because I got distracted. <.<
My thought process was roughly as follows:

• If there is only one scumgroup, the number of scums in their group probably makes sense from a balance perspective.
  
• If there are two scumgroups, the number of scums in each group almost certainly makes sense from a balance/numbers perspective.
  
• Zindaras' claim, that the scums couldn't possibly believe two scumgroups based on N1's happenings, fails miserably fo the "two scumgroups numbers" hold (and especially for a scumgroup which targeted notBattleMage
  
• Zindaras' assumption could be based on the existence of one "large" scumgroup, which could imply that he knows of the existence of one "large" scumgroup

Looking back on it, I don't think that's exactly right. Maybe I'm just confusing myself.

Removed broken tags. - Mod

[foolinc]

yes talitha, however we have no idea what a "duel" actually does, he says that it is supposed to do this and that, but if the mod lied to him about his identity, what else could the moderator have left out?

Do you believe Kirk Kerkorian is capable of killing a mafia member in a duel?

I'm not sure, but it said he was a pretty good boxer (he won a local title) so it's possible.

On a side note, you're prediction about the Yankees were wrong.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

they broke my heart