Mini 1762: Game Over

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean I think GR and Synd are scumbuddies.

But I kind of want to do the one I'm more unsure of so that I can give detailed reads tomorrow based on that flip.

Let me think.

[kirroha]

Catching scum is better than trying to catch prob-scum. We're lynching the scummier one first and we'll see after the scumflip.

[RadiantCowbells]

We are lynching both before this game ends.

I want to be able to make as informed as possible reads before I die.

[Golden Robster]

Rubixx slot was leaning town for me before, and then MoI came in and towned it the fuck up.

{Kirroha, Rubixx}
{Implosion, Nino, Ink}
{Rask, RC}
{Syndesis}

[RadiantCowbells]

Robster would have me as conftown.

He is therefore confscum.

THerefore SYndesis is the more swingy lynch.

[Golden Robster]

No. Stop putting words in my mouth.

You are not confirmed town, comprende?

[Golden Robster]

I mean I think GR and Synd are scumbuddies.

But I kind of want to do the one I'm more unsure of so that I can give detailed reads tomorrow based on that flip.

Let me think.

I like the part where you're unsure of syndesis

but your completely sure on me

Makes me want to lynch syndesis even more now

Chop chop

[MagnaofIllusion]

So I’ll be starting my review of Golden, Synd and Rask’s ISOs. Implosion I had a Town read during my read-through so I don’t see and need to review him. GIF would be the last but I don’t think I’ll have sufficient time to do so until Monday at the earliest for her. I will be V/LA after about 2pm EDT today until Monday for my usual weekend duties.

I’m eagerly anticipating feedback from both GIF and Implosion on the full case on Kiro that they requested.

@Golden re: 1711 – if my case was so solid why aren’t you voting for Kiro?

I do not like MOI because kirroha is obviously town and if you fail to see that then you are either completely confused or you are scum trying to get an easy mislynch on someone less active.

I want to lynch Golden Robster now that I think of it. He was completely townreading Kirroha, probably because he thought nobody would be interested in lynching her, but now that MagnaOfIllusions wants to vote Kirroha he is suddenly putting her as a scumlean.

If you’d like to explain where my analysis of Kiro that I posted is flawed in your eyes please go ahead. But understand saying empty fluff like “kirroha is obviously town” is not helpful. On a gut level I’m guessing this is the case for you because Kiro white-knighted for you over the non-existent Policy Lynch RVS talk and you’ve never bothered to re-evaluate.

The second point looks pretty salient. When I review Golden’s ISO I will be taking a look at his reads progressions.

Radiant has solidified as a townread for me. 1682 meta.

I'm not scum. And I don't think you are scum.

GM thought we were scumbuds in 1682. She was scum.

That makes me uncomfortable with MOI. But I really liked Rubixxx. Meh.

Lynch Syndesis?

These two posts lead me to the following conclusion – if only one of Kiro or Radiant is scum then my money is on Kiro.

1. Meta read from a single game presented as valid when it is clear that it is not given the fluid nature of meta.
2. Intense buddying by Kiro to Radiant – scum under fire looking for a lifeline?
3. Note Kiro still is ignoring her “scum were pushing those lynches” stance she used Day 1 and never, ever returned to.

I’d love to see an actual case on Syndesis from Kirroh at this point. Some actual reasoning. I'll also be reviewing 1682 because all her "I have only played 4 games and the latest was in 2014 so I suck" AtE Day 1 feels hollow to me given how she is talking about this meta game now.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So the fact that Golden, Rask, Radiant and Kirroha all have Synd as a top suspect makes her ISO review top priority.

Stylistically Syndesis trips every one of my inherent biases about players with minimalist contributions during games. So this is going to be a really tough ISO read.

At 172 she makes an observation about Kiro in my read-through regarding her “BBT is scum because claiming scum has no Pro-Town motivation”. And her vote is parked on Kiro at that moment.

By post 309 I like that she has interactions almost all the playerbase. Not any significant inquiry but at least some level of comment.

441 read of Implosion is similar to mine at that stage. +Town read

VOTE: Raskolnikov

I think my problem with this game is that everyone looks so scummy

Thank goodness syndesis. I'm glad to hear you are town this game.

This exchange will need further review in my Rask ISO. Because this screams of appeasement on Rask’s part but I need to see how she developed her “Syn is scum” stance from here.

467 is another good observation about Rask.

Dislike the jump to Taish at 553 simply because Synd has had plenty of salient points and questions to other players and this movement comes sort of from left-field.

630 is a bit of AtE but it comes from a Town point of view in my mind.

Hate hate hate with a passion the IamI vote at 848.

From 1124 I like that she’s picked up on Kiro’s inherent self-contradiction related to her and Beeboy’s slot’s crumbs.

Dislike her reads lists in the late 1200s to 1300s that basically on have one or two player as scum (ink or Beeboy, one of whom has already flipped Town).

Don’t understand the Golden Rooster vote in 1411 when Rask is more of a scum-read than Golden and she’s moving the vote from Rask.

1513 – interesting set of reads (GR, Kiro and Ras as possible team).

Her response in 1587 to Golden’s case for the most part makes sense. I see some weak points or what I would consider not valid responses but on the whole I think it rings true from a Town response point.

Dislike her, on Day 3, not being willing to put in the effort to make a case on Golden if she feels he is scum with the excuse “He’ll just call me scum anyway”. Cases aren’t for the people you are making them for – they are to convince the rest of the players you are correct in your suspicion.

Conclusion – I few questionable posts. Otherwise I don’t see any obvious or glaring scum motivated play. Not going to support this lynch today.

[Raskolnikov]

I feel bad for anyone that has to look through my ISO this game

[kirroha]

I'm way too lazy for this.

Just to clarify though, this is my first game since 2014. There was only meta with RC because I signed up for a newbie game after this game began, and that game ended before this one (given the delays that this game went through).

I'm always town, so it's easy to make comparisons.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm way too lazy for this.

Just to clarify though, this is my first game since 2014. There was only meta with RC because I signed up for a newbie game after this game began, and that game ended before this one (given the delays that this game went through).

I'm always town, so it's easy to make comparisons.

Nope, not flying. Meta from a single game isn't either useful or believable. And where's that Syn case? Being too lazy isn't an excuse I can buy if you were Town. Now from scum frustrated with having to make up a case I can understand that.

[RadiantCowbells]

MoI you are scum or bad.

either way, please be quiet.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Rask ISO read –

Once again the sparse, low content many posts game-play style is going to make this painful.

In 307 responds to Syn that she was scum-reading Kiro’s slot in 127. But kept her RVS vote on BBT despite the subsequently claimed scum-read and then asked Kiro to help in voting BBT at 236. +Scum points.

314’s explanation that “Eh, I was waiting for vote someone I saw scummy or just wanting to hammer” with a touch of AtE is also suspect.

418 is first “Synd is Town” post. I know more are coming from Synd’s ISO.

451 – PoEing the game Day 1 400ish posts is something that stood out to me on my initial read –

Here’s her pool stated then:

I'm POEing this game.

#1 is obvscum. #2 is probably TJ. Scum #3 is within a small group that's going to be narrowed dramatically when BBT actually comes alive.

So pick #2 was Town and there is no real indication who #1 or who consists of the pool in #3 in the immediate ISO surrounding this. Unless it comes back later my gut pings this as from scum.

100ish posts later we get –

I would like to lynch within {SBslot, TJ, IAI, BBT} today.

So PoE leads to three Town and the slot that now is her good friend Rooster?

588 – 600 reads as classic scum shade throwing on BBT who we now know is Town.

I think having Ink IAI and TJ as your townreads is absurd. I'm 100% there's at least 1 scum in here.

So two Town and GIF’s slot. Which we know from Day 3 isn’t in her new PoE list. And then at 643 instead of following up with a vote in her pool of scum she votes BBTown again.

By post 690 ish I’m ready to commit that I’m seeing no scum-hunting from this slot. Just random questions that she never follows up on and PoE lists that seem to be just constructed to look busy.

Lot of scummy people in this game. I think Rasko and TG are outside choices though.

Much prefer one of KTS, RC, implosion or Syn.

what happened to this

The cognitive dissonance here is strong. She’s dinging BBT for not following up on a group of players to lynch. But she herself never follows up on her pools and just has a lazy vote dropped on Town.

Ok so in isolation I would scumread KTS's serious posts for storytelling (very constructed statements and posts which look sort of planned-out) and for constantly talking about the general case about what scum theoretically would or should do when he's explaining his reads. But he's pretty similar in the other game I looked at him in (there was a third but it was barely anything) so its like whatever.

He put in a ton of effort early/midgame and I liked that. What happened midgame was people mostly ignored both him and his reads for Kirroha, SB and then Rubixxx. I think scum would be happy with this situation as they're safe from lynch and in a good position if the town's likely to ML. But he became apathetic. I don't know if it's genuine or not but I'm not sure why scum would choose to fake that in this situation rather that continuing as they were doing. I guess he could technically be bored scum. Still I have him townlean from earlier and I'd rather lynch in my 4.

If “storytelling” is a scum-tell then this post is a self-scum claim. Spends two paragraphs putting together a narrative that leads to no definite conclusion on Kill’s slot. Basically says “Could be scum but I have a Town lean”. And then keeps vote parked on BBTown.

I guess bbt wagon isn't viable

VOTE: TaishoGal L-1

Actually puts Golden’s slot at L-1 which is consistent with lynching in her group of 4. Changes that at 807 back to BBT after Kiro unvotes Golden.

@GR that list wasn't my reads it was BBT's (go back and read the context).

Looking forward to seeing your push today

p-edit T_T

This is an odd post to come from Town who wants to lynch the player who clearly made a mistake in an attack on her. Because if one of my suspects who I considered scum immediately started incorrectly attributing play to me I don’t think my response would be “Oh, read more carefully”.

No, I'm sad we have so many claims day 1

VOTE: IamInnocent l-2

I think this is the only thing we can do in time

These are back to back posts. The first reads as absolute fake-Town concern when her next post is to push a wagon on an unclaimed player.

IAI I think you're town now but you're wrong about me. If you intend to trade your life 1 for 1 like this we'll actually just straight up lose the game.

I don't know if we have the votes to avoid no-lynch at this point :/

Oh look, some more AtE as IamI calls Rask out for her vote on him.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=63637 relevant

This is interesting as it is a link to what I assume was a completed game at that point with Radiant winning as scum. No followup anywhere in the immediate ISO on what this means.

IaI's deathtunnel is technically more AI than RC's as RC does it a fair amount as both alignments (disclaimer, I don't know IaI meta). I was scumreading IaI yesterday but his play around deadline and pretty much offering himself as a lynch when he really didn't have to makes him near-conf town to me.

I'll get more into this game in ~2 days.

This is interesting in context of the prior post – this seems to be meta defending Radiant. But posting a link of a closed game with Radiant scum doesn’t appear to help support that stance.

GR/Implosion?

So once again Golden is scum on day 2. No sign of a vote for Golden. In fact her vote is stacked on Beeboy (Town) when this post is made.

Can everybody who's townreading gr beyond a weak lean please explain to me why so I can see if I missed/ didn't see it, or if I just disagree. Thanks.

At this stage if Golden is scum I’d link Rask pretty conclusively to the slot. Lots of soft suspicion thrown up to this point with little tangible action to support it. Now she makes an appeal that would allow her to transition to a “GR is not scum” stance if she can get someone to support it. But she drops it when Radiant immediately says that Golden is scum.

Idk I feel fairly confident in my syndesis townread after the last game we had.

I don't know if I'd agree with you're theory she's scum bussing ink when tj/beeboy slot is an easy lynch (all 3 of us are down for) plus rc is/was another viable counter.

@mod VC pls

Oh so day 2 and Synd is still a fairly confident Townread for Rask. Let’s see how it develops into Day 3.

So Day 3 starts and we get the following –

OTE: implosion

let's lynch your partner today

yes, let's lynch your other partner nino

lets help rc bus nino
VOTE: nino

So Rask wants to lynch Nino. Who all but claimed 1-shot Vig in thread. Nino comes in, claims her role and immediately votes Rask. Rask’s reaction?

UNVOTE:
I forgot about that

Pretty strong sign (along with the completely disappated Golden as scum read) she’s not actually scum-hunting.

Ras

Raskolnikov

why are you voting Rubixxx

will answer when he gets here or gets replaced

Going to sleep, promise to tryhard this when I wake up. If I dont vote me

Curious if this explanation ever came. But note this is Day 3 and how she is interacting with Synd. That’s “Hey Townread, I’ll do better I promise”.

At 1450 we get a return to Golden as scum with by putting him at L-1. States in 1451 “Of course I want to lynch Rubixxx”. Weak hop while not pushing the slot at all leads to another strong tie with Golden.
This is the Golden she is arguing against lynch later this day because he is her friend.

Eh fuck it
VOTE: Golden

Actually, double-fuck it.
VOTE: Syndesis

This has EXTREME utility.

And here is the point where Golden becomes non-voteable and Synd, who she hasn’t even address since last calling her Town, is suddenly lynchable.

It's not useful for why GiF is saying it's useful though. The PR claim will 99% die tonight unless its commuter or something; I'd like it just to help with the lynch choice today.

This is interesting simply from the standpoint it exactly predicts the results of mass-claim before it happens. Possible slip from Mafia QT? Unsure at this stage.

1536 – Second time Rask has mentioned a bus in context with Golden.

Well have to cut off there but at this stage I’d put Rask in my pool of lynches I vote for today. Prefer Kiro for but I can see Rask as a Kiro possible partner.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI you are scum or bad.

either way, please be quiet.

No, thanks.

[kirroha]

I'm way too lazy for this.

Just to clarify though, this is my first game since 2014. There was only meta with RC because I signed up for a newbie game after this game began, and that game ended before this one (given the delays that this game went through).

I'm always town, so it's easy to make comparisons.

Nope, not flying. Meta from a single game isn't either useful or believable. And where's that Syn case? Being too lazy isn't an excuse I can buy if you were Town. Now from scum frustrated with having to make up a case I can understand that.

shrug I guess it's no excuse. Should I replace out?

I really want to see either GR or Syn lynched though. Let's lynch GR guys if we're not going to lynch Syndesis.

[kirroha]

I'll add Rask to my pool of possible lynches today.

1. GR
2. Syn
3. Rask

You guys decide, I'm willing to vote anyone within these three.

[Golden Robster]

Number 2

[Golden Robster]

Take my cookies

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm way too lazy for this.

Just to clarify though, this is my first game since 2014. There was only meta with RC because I signed up for a newbie game after this game began, and that game ended before this one (given the delays that this game went through).

I'm always town, so it's easy to make comparisons.

Nope, not flying. Meta from a single game isn't either useful or believable. And where's that Syn case? Being too lazy isn't an excuse I can buy if you were Town. Now from scum frustrated with having to make up a case I can understand that.

shrug I guess it's no excuse. Should I replace out?

I really want to see either GR or Syn lynched though. Let's lynch GR guys if we're not going to lynch Syndesis.

Just ignore him.

[GuyInFreezer]

I managed to read the kirroha case.

But though, what would be her scumotivation of crumbing a VT when pressured?

[GuyInFreezer]

@MoI

[GuyInFreezer]

also re: rask
I just can't see him anything other than a vig bait

[Raskolnikov]

man, that's worse than being scumread
you're hurting my feelings

[implosion]

I really don't see synd+gr as a team, looking at it more. GR->synd doesn't feel very bussy. It looks like a scumread that transitioned from not being primary to being a main scumread naturally. Idk, GR's early posting still feels really genuine to me. I have a hard time seeing him as scum even though his recent posting isn't as strongly town. Especially with synd.

I think rask is the person for scum that contradicts the fewest of the feelings that I have of having townread people. I really, really doubt it's gr/synd/kirro, and unless the gif inno is false I really just can't think of a team that would make rask town. Unless somehow magna is scum. In which case wp rubixxx i guess. I really don't see myself getting past that townread.

I can imagine rask + two of gr/synd/kirro, or replacing one of those with gif. Honestly I think this game makes way more sense if gif is scum. Like, rask/synd/gif would be by far the most sensible team in my head. RC's role is strong enough that I can imagine scum having both a godfather and a doctor (it would be interesting design too, giving the two kinds of investigative abilities so that if you think you hit a false negative you can try again and that each one has a different false negative). Either way I don't think I want to put a lot of stock in that, but I don't think I want to lynch him today.

Regardless I just cannot think of any team that doesn't have rask on it.

VOTE: Rask