Mini 511-Match of Champions Mafia! GAME OVER!

[DragonsofSummer]

FoS: Draux

hammering without adding a reason after the claim is pretty scummy imo...

[ZONEACE]

FoS: Draux

hammering without adding a reason after the claim is pretty scummy imo...

can i go ahead and preemptively vote draux for tomorrow? cause he def needs to be lynched tomorrow.

[schismatized]

No, if stree is town i say you die.

[Numenorean7]

could someone hammer stree so we can get this day over with?

Vote: Streeflo

can i go ahead and preemptively vote draux for tomorrow? cause he def needs to be lynched tomorrow.

???

[ZONEACE]

could someone hammer stree so we can get this day over with?

Vote: Streeflo

can i go ahead and preemptively vote draux for tomorrow? cause he def needs to be lynched tomorrow.

???

oh it has nothing to do with his hammer.

I thought he was scum before that. but his hammer (with nothing else in the post but the vote) makes me think (especially if stree turns out to be scum like i think he will) its just scum trying to distance themself from other scum by placing the lynching vote.

[Streeflo]

I can't believe I got lynched for making a mistake.

Just start voting Draux now, cause I'm town.

[Draux]

could someone hammer stree so we can get this day over with?

Vote: Streeflo

can i go ahead and preemptively vote draux for tomorrow? cause he def needs to be lynched tomorrow.

???

oh it has nothing to do with his hammer.

I thought he was scum before that. but his hammer (with nothing else in the post but the vote) makes me think (especially if stree turns out to be scum like i think he will) its just scum trying to distance themself from other scum by placing the lynching vote.

Oh wow, Scum hammers Scumbuddy Day 1. Great logic you have there, ZoneAce.

[Battle Mage]

Vote Count

Streeflo - 6 (Nelly632, Nocmen, MoS, DoS, Zoneace, Draux)
ZONEACE - 2 (Schismatized, Streeflo)
TCS - 1 (Num7)
Num7 - 1 (TCS)

Not Voting: bubka

11 Alive, 6 to lynch

Draux took Streeflo to the room they had colloquially deemed the 'Lynching Room'. A few minutes later he emerged with his head in his hands. Streeflo hadn't been the culprit of a vile murder. He had simply been an innocent bystander who stayed for one race too many.

Streeflo- Townie (Local Greeter). Original Victor-The Central Scrutinizer in The Amazing Race Mafia, has been lynched.

It is now Night 2. You have 48 hours to submit night-choices.

BM

[Battle Mage]

The Central Scrutinizer was up and about last night-worrying over the fact that the role he originally stormed to victory with, was already dead. Someone else had apparently noticed this pattern, as when TCS answered a suspiciously late knock on the door, he was greeted with a bullet to the head. Classy.

The Central Scrutinizer- Townie (Innocent Townsperson). Original Victor-Patrick in Face to Face Mafia, has been killed.

It is now Day 2. With 9 of you left alive, 5 votes are required to lynch someone.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I hope this town can pull it together. Good luck.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Nocmen's posts so far:

Random vote: schismatized

because I still cant spell his name right.

Random vote

FoS: Streeflo and schismatizied

for going and voting people while complimenting...thats TOO townie for me.

Joke FoSing

<< Doesn't enjoy these random "insults" of other players?

Messing around with everyone

^^
just called the whole site a hypocrit.

More messing around

Whoa? A Roleclaim already...I don't see it being called for, and I'm not too sure about ZONEACE's idea, but there are other things that concern me and make me uneasy voting at all.

What are these "other things" that concerned you so much that you wouldn't vote ANYONE!?

Well...a lot happens in 12 hours or so...

From what I see...ZONEACE is getting really defensive and angsty.

Everyone claiming makes me debate the sanity and intellegince of the other town members I'm with.

And Streetflo who may have "accidnetally" hammered...but his reponse to it seems like a scum trying to save his ass over the fact he just hit town.

Unvote, Vote: Streetflo

What happened in the last 12 hours to get rid of the "other things" that were making you not want to vote at all? Or did you just see a chance to jump on the Streeflo wagon and were talking shit before?

MoS, I also sort of agree with you with your opinion of ZA. I'm not the one going all crazy because ZA had a theory, I just don't like how he went claim fishing so early...

But I still don't like how much streetflo played off innocent after he "hammered", which is why my vote stays.

First half seems to be fence-sitting: "I buddy up with MoS by agreeing with him, but I'm going to leave myself an out to still attack ZONEACE"

I dont know where people get off thinking that just because you do something a lot in the past makes it right. It sure as hell isnt a good argument, in fact its a fallacy of argument called Traditional Appeal.

That's a very good point, but we're not trying to lynch bad players. We're trying to lynch scum. Being a bad player and being scum are two very different things.

That pretty much sums up my feelings, and also this arguement is really starting to get to the tedious BS part (Mod: Can I say BS?)

Agreeing with Num7.

I have questions above in bold. On top of that, it doesn't seem like Nocmen is providing any opinions of his own.

How do you feel about each individual player alive?

Don't say you agree with reasons other people posted. Type up your analysis in your own words and be thorough.

In addition to his lack of original opinion, he is also active lurking, posting just enough to not get noticed by anyone or get prodded.

[Mastermind of Sin]

DragonsofSummer: 4 random/joke/irrelevant posts.

Oh yeah! Spelling ftw I'm mighty suspicious of you wanting someone to claim on page 2 btw, and find it more deserving of my vote than a random one so

unvote vote ZONEACE

Slight misrepresentation of what ZONEACE wanted, but an understandable mistake.

Zoneace it has nothing to do with the fact that you have a plan, but your theory can be just as easily tested as the day goes on. It doesn't have to happen on page two. I think it is scummy that you want a claim out of someone on page two, and unless you are willing to divulge more information about this theory you have then I see no reason to support your actions.

Continuation of above misrepresentation.

unvote

I also don't like that people just jumped on trumpeting the reason I was voting. Now that its about to come out, and someone chose to claim instead of being bullied into it, I'm willing to see what Zoneace has to say.

I just didn't like that he wanted someone to claim on page two, and the speed people jumped on behind me makes me feel like scum took my thought process to mean they could get him quick lynched. Anyway I am very curious about your theory Zoneace, I just didn't like how you basically demanded a claim this early.

I agree with the suspicion from this post, but the rest of it is pretty much a carbon copy of the last two posts.

Hey Nelly, you're me!

Thats awkward... lol!

Irrelevant.

I understood too, and believe it or not Nelly his theory has a lot larger of an impact on this game than you give it credit for. For now

vote Streeflo

I agree that his supposed hammer is quite suspect.

For all his worry about people jumping on a wagon trumpeting the reasons he had against ZONEACE, he didn't have a problem doing it himself with the Streeflo wagon.

I don't necessarily know that a roleclaim was necessary to test it (this early in the game at least). But there being no flavor makes it much harder for scum to lie about their roles for one thing (I mean yeah they can claim vanilla, but in my experience people who claim vanilla and look scummy usually get lynched anyway), but it also makes his other thoughts on the game very valid, and though we don't know they are true (note: if they are true there is no need for someone to out themselves to prove it, and please don't) they are logical probabilities given what we know about the game already.

I don't agree with the way he is treating everyone that doesn't agree with him like an idiot, but his theory (which I give about a 90% chance of being completely correct) lets us know exactly what we have to find, right here and right now, and so with that knowledge it makes it easier for us to scum hunt, and harder for scum to avoid being found.

Good theory discussion.

Thats just it though... 3 scum... 8 town oriented roles... we know what we have to find, and since there is no flavor it makes it much harder for those three scum to bs there way out of a lynch when found. Thats the beauty of it, since we know what we are looking for (I doubt there is a vig or an SK btw), it should be easier to find it.

Continued theory.

That would be hilarious imo, but at the same time I would know he was lying becuase Nelly's claim wouldn't have done him any good if it were true.

Nelly where you and I aren't connecting is a fundemental difference in how we look at the game, and so neither of us will agree with the other.

Now lets all move on to finding the scum and winning this game.

Random stuff and end of theory

FoS: Draux

hammering without adding a reason after the claim is pretty scummy imo...

FoS of Draux. Could go either way.

DragonsofSummer, I'd like you to give some more analysis of other players. You have almost exclusively talked about ZONEACE for this entire game, and most of it was analysis of his plan and the way he went about it. You don't seem to be doing much scum-hunting. You said you were suspicious of the people that jumped on the ZONEACE wagon, but you didn't actually comment on any of them or try to look at any other players until Streeflo messed up.

*quote tags fixed*

[Nocmen]

MoS: The other things that concerned me was the claiming that occured.

If you want to hear my opinion on each player alive:
ZONEACE - Seems to be trying too hard to get his plan to work. Also is getting angry at players. I think hes trying to hard in order to be a savior, it could be scum.
schismatized: Gets angry at ZA, and accuses MoS of defending him.
Draux: Plays like a little kid, and seems to be playing with the town in order to hide his motifs.

Vote:Draux

[Mastermind of Sin]

First three posts: random/joke/irrelevant

Confirm Vote: The Central Scrutinizer

vote: numenorean7

Even in jest, the first person to repeat something I call a town tell is a worthy place to park my vote.

You were either joking (in which case my comment is a joke back) or clearing Draux for insufficient reason (in which case you deserve the vote). Which one?

I don't understand this post. TCS was clearly not joking when he said he saw a town tell from Draux, and his town tell was pretty strong for early D1. I fail to see how he deserved a vote as a result of that post.

cause clearly im gonna believe that without the relevant information regarding what game your role is from and who originally had it.

That might come under the PM-quoting rule.

Rules comment

Zoneace:
Even if you are pro-town, the only thing you have accomplished here is giving the Mafia two easy targets to pick from. The problem isn't that you have a theory. The problem is that your "theory" involves a) outing yourself and b) outing another pro-town role. All I can say is: it'd better be good.

I disagree with this game theory from Num7, but that's already been covered.

simulpost.

I don't think much of your theory. Does it matter if this game has no flavor? Matter enough to claim vanilla and expose a mason?

More theory.

simulpost.

I don't think much of your theory. Does it matter if this game has no flavor? Matter enough to claim vanilla and expose a mason?

ok lets review, I DIDNT EXPOSE THE MASON. i was perfectly happy with pushing schis to claim, nelly outed himself.

You demand that someone claim. Nelly claims mason, saying, "I want to find out what this theory is." Whose fault is it the Mason was outed? Perhaps it wasn't good for Nelly to claim, but I think you are more to blame. You did ask for it, after all.

More theory, pretty much. This post doesn't really contribute anything other than placing blame for stuff that had already happened. He doesn't even suspect ZONEACE.

Sorry to make you cringe MoS (not), but I agree with Nelly on a lot of things.
1) ZA's "theory" was fairly obvious to anyone who read BM's description of the game in the queue, saw their own role PM, and saw post 4.
2) The way he tried to test it was bad. Asking for a roleclaim in thread with no more justification than some mysterious theory? That's bad enough. But when it's a theory that would have worked better if he just went out and stated it...
3) The assumption that the Mafia will not kill anyone but the doc is bad. Yes we've lost a cop, but what about other pro-town roles? Vig? RB? etc? One would hope BM at least put in plenty of power-roles for a game called "match of the champions".
4) ZA got way too upset when people disagreed with him. "Anyone who is uncomfortable with some mysterious plan regarding a roleclaim must be brain-dead." Right. And all the gratuitous profanity doesn't help either.

I'm not saying Nelly is blameless. He should not have claimed, he should not have gotten caught up in the ad hominem, and he should not have continued talking about what the scum should do. But I feel he is right about ZA's play.

The whole game so far has been a Bad Thing for the town.

More theory discussion. Slight scumtell of that last sentence. Nothing much really, but I find scum more likely to say things like that.

First of all, I don't agree that the scum is only interested in getting the doc. I personally think the Mafia would be worried about confirmed pro-town players. But if their only priority was finding the doc, you've still harmed the town. By revealing two non-doctors, you have increased the chances of the scum hitting the doc.

More game theory.

Nelly is very likely telling the truth: Mason is an unproductive claim for scum. And many people seem to think that you are confirmed because of that "death post" after streeflo's "hammer".

Doesn't suspect Nelly. Awkward wording about ZONEACE: "many people seem to think..."??? So do you agree, or did you just say this so that you could later vote ZONEACE and say something to the effect of "but I never said I thought ZONEACE was very protown! I just said that other people thought that". I've used this strategy as scum before.

ZA did not help the town, but this doesn't necessarily mean that he is scum. Which is why I'm not voting him. I agree with MoS: further discussion is unnecessary.

Unless ZA feels the inclination to claim mason buddies with Nelly just to see what happens.

Better clarification about ZONEACE, but pretty much agreeing with what other people have said.

I dont know where people get off thinking that just because you do something a lot in the past makes it right. It sure as hell isnt a good argument, in fact its a fallacy of argument called Traditional Appeal.

That's a very good point, but we're not trying to lynch bad players. We're trying to lynch scum. Being a bad player and being scum are two very different things.

Same stuff as I said about the last post.

could someone hammer stree so we can get this day over with?

Vote: Streeflo

can i go ahead and preemptively vote draux for tomorrow? cause he def needs to be lynched tomorrow.

???

umm, something. I see what he was getting at, but he didn't really say anything about it.

Num7, why are you just sitting back and letting other people participate? Why did your vote sit on TCS for the entirety of Day 1? Why do you suspect, and why? Why did you not think anyone was scum on Day 1?

[Mastermind of Sin]

MoS: The other things that concerned me was the claiming that occured.

How did the claiming make you uneasy to vote anyone?

If you want to hear my opinion on each player alive:
ZONEACE - Seems to be trying too hard to get his plan to work. Also is getting angry at players. I think hes trying to hard in order to be a savior, it could be scum.

*how* could it be scum?

schismatized: Gets angry at ZA, and accuses MoS of defending him.
Draux: Plays like a little kid, and seems to be playing with the town in order to hide his motifs.

Vote:Draux

Ok, so you suspect Draux for being immature. What about the other 5 players still alive? We have 9 alive, take away those three and yourself, and you still haven't given an opinion on another 5 players.

[Mastermind of Sin]

bubka needs to start contributing. There isn't much else to say about him.

[Mastermind of Sin]

could someone hammer stree so we can get this day over with?

Vote: Streeflo

Vote: Draux

Die Scum.

Vote: Mastermind of Sin

random. And probably the only two line post he makes all game.

...

Confirm Vote: Mastermind of Sin

random stuff again.

Unvote, Vote: The Central Scrutinizer

random

Your 'theory' is getting a pro-Town power role to claim so you can Nightkill them right? Die Scum.

Unvote, Vote: ZONEFACE

Makes a lot of assumptions, since ZONEACE didn't ask for any power roles to claim, just for

someone

to claim.

My role requires that I act stupid.

Sure looks like it.

I'm not exactly pro-Town so you don't have to worry about that.

Please explain what you meant by this post.

I kid, I kid.

So you just posted something completely irrelevant for the sake of posting?

I'm just a mentally-deficient newb-Townie, remember? Don't take me seriously.

Unvote

Why can't you be an earnest, observant newb-Townie?

People, stop arguing or I'll hammer Streeflo for no reason.

Why would you do this?

Vote: Streeflo

...And there he does it.

can i go ahead and preemptively vote draux for tomorrow? cause he def needs to be lynched tomorrow.

???

oh it has nothing to do with his hammer.

I thought he was scum before that. but his hammer (with nothing else in the post but the vote) makes me think (especially if stree turns out to be scum like i think he will) its just scum trying to distance themself from other scum by placing the lynching vote.

Oh wow, Scum hammers Scumbuddy Day 1. Great logic you have there, ZoneAce.

You could easily have been scum taking the easy hammer after stating publicly that you'll hammer for no reason.

Draux is either a newbie who doesn't even care about the game and should be banned from future games on mafiascum if he doesn't shape up, or he's scum who is basically telling us all what scummy stuff he's going to do to try and WIFOM us into thinking that no scum would be that dumb.

[Nocmen]

I'm going to post how ever much I want, when I want to, MoS. Why do you seem to be pushing only me for information, instead of others that are much worse off here such as Draux and DragonsOfSummer? This unwarranted push IMO is making you come off as suspect.

[Mastermind of Sin]

4 random/irrelevant

Your 'theory' is getting a pro-Town power role to claim so you can Nightkill them right? Die Scum.

Unvote, Vote: ZONEFACE

you stupid im not even gonna dignify this with an actual defense

im not gonna dignify you with an acutal attack


okay i will i just wanted to say that. whats with all the appeal to emotion?

im not gonna vote zone yet bc im not sure of the vc.

So you're going to vote ZONEACE just for appealing to emotion? I don't see the point of this post. You don't really contribute anything here.

actually there is only 3 on him so i will

vote: zoneace

thats much better than my previous randvote and i just noticed we only have a week.

Still no case, and now you've voted him already. Why do you think he is scum?

umm ok

vote streeflo

leaving him at -1 so no one else vote til he claims.

this looks really shady. you dont want him to get lynched before he claims but you still put him at -1. my vote stands.

also can you please cut all the BS. I posted almost exactly 24 hours ago and because of your moronic break down filled with insults and stupidity, i had to wade through 4 pages full of mostly crap. You need to take a chill pill.

He still votes him because he thinks he is scum. He also clearly states that it's L-1, so no one has an excuse for hammering without knowing the VC. I don't see what the problem is here.

Ok so now he needs to chill. Still no actually case presented against him. You haven't even stated that you agree with anyone else's potential cases.

umm eat me.

MOD: Can we replace this guy? I have tried really hard to deal with him and you have already warned him. He is terrible at mafia and is making this game dumb

Well, you've already heard what I think of this post. It's not really relevant to finding scum, though.

umm eat me.

MOD: Can we replace this guy? I have tried really hard to deal with him and you have already warned him. He is terrible at mafia and is making this game dumb

*shakes head*

People like this make me really sad.

what makes me sad is you defending him for no reason.

In fact, you know my response to this already, too.

I dont know where people get off thinking that just because you do something a lot in the past makes it right. It sure as hell isnt a good argument, in fact its a fallacy of argument called Traditional Appeal.

You're pulling in some game theory, but you're not really explaining how ZONEACE is scum. Even if you think he is abrasive and/or dumb, you haven't shown how that makes him scum.

I think it is much to early for a lynch. Streeflo hasnt even claimed and he could be quick lynched way to early.

That's why we said it was L-1 so that no one accidentally hammered.

umm ZONEACE stop not thinking before you speak. I just dont want to lynch a townie too early when we have six days.

Under the given deadlines (which are way too strict), perhaps you are right, but I don't see you giving any arguments that we should lynch anyone else. You pretty much let Streeflo get lynched.

Just because one person looks scummy doesnt mean you only concentrated on him IMO. We need to look at everyone. Especially you. You have contributed very ittle to the scumhunt. All you have done is name call and cry when anyone calls you scum or doesnt agree with you.

WHAT A HYPOCRITE

I dont know where people get off thinking that just because you do something a lot in the past makes it right. It sure as hell isnt a good argument, in fact its a fallacy of argument called Traditional Appeal.

Just because something is not right doesn't make the person doing it scum. Since you seem to think ZONEACE is a bad player and not very intelligent, I fail to see why you are NOT applying Hanlon's razor and instead calling him scummy for being

consistent

. Your argument doesn't make any sense.

while i believe he is both a bad player and likely not intelligent, that is not my argument against him. He has acted like a five year old this whole time. He provides little to no reason for his voting and has blatantly OMGUS'd. When someone casts any suspicion on him, he gets overly defensive and breaks down to slinging mud. This is why I believe he is scum.

This is the first time you articulated any case against him. I have already explained why I think ZONEACE is town, so I'll leave this alone.

And? I still fail to see where you give ANY evidence that ZONEACE scum is *more* likely to do this than he is as town. You are just fitting your argument to the result you want without any logical process.

So you are saying that he would meltdown just as easily if he was a townie called scum?

I've responded to this before as well. My answer was essentially, yes.

No, if stree is town i say you die.

In reference to ZONEACE, no reason given as to why ZONEACE in particular is scum *if* streeflo is town.

Schis, you can shout all you want about how you think ZONEACE isn't helping the game, and you can say that you don't want a lynch yet, but why haven't you done any active scumhunting? You said that we needed to look at *everyone*, but the only person you've looked at all game is ZONEACE. You can't have your cake and eat it, too.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'm going to post how ever much I want, when I want to, MoS. Why do you seem to be pushing only me for information, instead of others that are much worse off here such as Draux and DragonsOfSummer? This unwarranted push IMO is making you come off as suspect.

Nocmen, this post is blatant omgus. I am pushing nearly everyone for information,

including Draux and DragonsofSummer

. You just made a blatantly false statement about who I am asking questions, which proves that you aren't even reading the thread. My push against you is more than warranted. You haven't contributed anything all game. Even Draux has as much content as you do.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I've now looked at everyone except ZONEACE and Nelly, who I spent plenty of time looking at on D1.

[Nocmen]

But why are you just giving random comments on those two, while asking me for specific questions?

[ZONEACE]

vote draux

it'll be schis tomorrow.


Also, i'd like to point out that the "mason" is still alive, like i said he would be.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'm not asking them to do things for me or asking any questions of them? Bullshit.

DragonsofSummer, I'd like you to give some more analysis of other players. You have almost exclusively talked about ZONEACE for this entire game, and most of it was analysis of his plan and the way he went about it. You don't seem to be doing much scum-hunting. You said you were suspicious of the people that jumped on the ZONEACE wagon, but you didn't actually comment on any of them or try to look at any other players until Streeflo messed up.

I'm not exactly pro-Town so you don't have to worry about that.

Please explain what you meant by this post.

I kid, I kid.

So you just posted something completely irrelevant for the sake of posting?

I'm just a mentally-deficient newb-Townie, remember? Don't take me seriously.

Unvote

Why can't you be an earnest, observant newb-Townie?

People, stop arguing or I'll hammer Streeflo for no reason.

Why would you do this?

[Mastermind of Sin]

vote draux

it'll be schis tomorrow.


Also, i'd like to point out that the "mason" is still alive, like i said he would be.

lolz that's cuz the scum fell for it xD