California Trilogy - Dantès in Fresno (Game Over!)

[LoudmouthLee]

I've honestly never heard lace used in that context before

Really? It's quite common. I find that odd for such an accomplished writer.

[logicticus]

All right, time for me to chime in on all the happenings this day.

First as to IH's claim. I dont think it looks good that we have had 5 people die who have been classified as innocents and all of them have a name. Granted, we dont know if they were just townies or had powers, but one of them (mgm) claimed generic townie before his death and he had a name. So, I am not sure how much I buy the claim and that compounded with earlier actions (mostly from oman) make me feel good about putting IH high on the list.

Now the second line of convo has been around Mr. Grey

I still think it's the Mod as the SK. Could it be for people who fall into 2 categories:

a) People who have a secret word...
and...
b) People who fail to utter their secret word?

Interesting, can I can some people to chime in on whether or not they have used their secret word? I can say that I have not to this point.

I think Tally sums up my thoughts on the Grey issue nicely with this quote:

How can Mr Grey's inclusion in a condorcet list be a mistake on the mod's part? The players make the lists, right? I'm not even sure when Mr Grey first popped up, but I assume a PLAYER included him, and Mr Grey, conscientious mod that he is, simply followed the player's wishes.

What I find disturbing about you, Tally, is not that you think he may have done so 'out of courtesy' of the players, but the fact that you're not even interested in seeing if he could be an SK. If you're a protown player, your job is to eliminate all threats to the town. A possible threat has emerged, and you're gunning down that possibility as a mere "distraction." That kind of attitude stirkes me as patently scummy.

I disagree with this. I think the point that we disagree on is that you feel Mr. Grey is a threat while many of the rest of us just dont see a case for it. At this time, I think its a waste to go lynching Mr Grey. Maybe if any evidence comes up that he could be anti town, I will go back to this. But at this point the only evidence being used is the fact he came up on a condorcet list. Thats not evidence in my opinion.

Finally, on to the most interesting discussion of all. LML and the word lace. I'll start with my opinion....the more I read and review the more I dont like it.

I think it was very clever of Lee to bury it the way he did. I didnt think of it a second time because it does make sense and cubs does need to be ripped into. But then capitalizing along with xyzzy later makes that stand out and could be a scum action for sure.

Lee claims he was capitalizing for emphasis, and as IH stated later, I can understand capitalizing lace, but why xyzzy? The emphasis isnt needed there.

Do you think a one shot role like that, even if it was mine (which it is not) would be a scum or an SK with only one shot? And if I were scum, do you really think I would have "used my kill on xyzzy"? He was surely yesterday's lynch if he were alive.

Wake up Pooky. You're better than this,

Dont like this quote appealing to Pookys gamesmanship. Pretty scummy imo.

Heres my theory. I think LML is scum of some sort and with his killing ability making it easier for us to pick him out he has some sort of immunity. This is what allowed the duel to turn out the way it did. This would balance the fact that his killing method is more difficult. Maybe he can only be lynched and not killed in any other way, who knows.

LML, why are you pushing for Tally so hard? Do y ou have a post laying out the case against her?

[MrBuddyLee]

Question: why would LMLscum have daykilled someone who was likely to be lynched anyway? Considering how easy it was to spot the XYZZY and LACE, don't you think he'd have saved the ability for a more useful time/person?

I think it's possible but not likely that he's an anti-town killing faction. I'll let you work out the alternatives in your noggins.

Can anyone who thinks MoS/Banani isn't scum please explain why? Can MoS/Banani's replacement please step up to the plate and tell us their opinion of Thesp's, Talitha's, IH's, DP's behavior?

[Mr. Grey]

Vote Count:

8 to lynch.

MrBuddyLee: 2 (Dragon Phoenix, VitaminR)
IH: 1 (Talitha)
Talitha: 1 (LoudmouthLee)

[logicticus]

Question: why would LMLscum have daykilled someone who was likely to be lynched anyway? Considering how easy it was to spot the XYZZY and LACE, don't you think he'd have saved the ability for a more useful time/person?

I think it's possible but not likely that he's an anti-town killing faction. I'll let you work out the alternatives in your noggins.

Can anyone who thinks MoS/Banani isn't scum please explain why? Can MoS/Banani's replacement please step up to the plate and tell us their opinion of Thesp's, Talitha's, IH's, DP's behavior?

Yeah I meant to bring that up and its also why I quoted that part.

Thats the best argument in my opinion about why LML did not kill xyzzy. He was going to be killed that day most likely.

[MrBuddyLee]

As the leading vote-getter (only 2, but whatever) I have to note that the people voting me haven't asked me any questions, they've just kind of plunked votes down on me and let them stand. If either of you are really interested in ascertaining alignments, I think you'd be trying to find out whether I'm aligned with anyone. I don't get the least sense of that, not even an attempt to connect me with dead known scum. Combined with the fact that I KNOW my alignment and you're barking up the wrong tree, I have to say your intent is dubious.

I believe a few other people have indicated willingness to vote me but haven't, with similar lack of curiosity about alignment. Some of you are bound to be lazy town, so please do something that allows me to distinguish you from the dirtbags, thanks.

FOS: DP, VitR

Tags removed. Please use bold tags only for voting and unvoting. - Mod

[Tamuz]

Since nobody else will


LML, I find you more and more scummy as you try to push your rationalization of the word lace. As a Native english speaker who has been very conscientious of idioms and linguistics from a very young age I can honestly say that Lace is NOT a common idiom. I mean, even the word rail is more common than that in the context you are putting forward, and ask if anyone here has heard someone say they will rail Cubs after the game. Yeah, right.

But you continue saying you have used it plenty of times and you are sure you have used it on MS, (which would makes sense if it was a common idiom [or even an idiom for that matter]) because you have been around so long. However, you proof of you using it is not on MS, it isn't even on something timestamped, just a dating site, albeit we do know you are married and it makes reference to the Pop Trivia World series. Which actually leaves a small window, the first was last summer the second, and last so far was this summer and it had to be before your wedding. I'm too lazy to look up the times of the PC and the time of your wedding , but there seems to be a fair potential for time incongruity there.

Regardless, despite your protests of its commonality, and you using it before you show us something that could be complete bullshit and you treat it as the Source. I'm just not sure I feel content about your candor anymore.

vote: PJ

, Dory, John Smith, Pocahontas, George Washington, Mr. Grey, God, everyone else in alphabetical order, no lynch, myself

[logicticus]

Tamuz, I see what you are doing with the beginning of your list, but why do you list all the active players in alphabbetical order?

Surely you must have some preference...

[Mr. Grey]

Vote Count:

8 to lynch.

MrBuddyLee: 2 (Dragon Phoenix, VitaminR)
IH: 1 (Talitha)
Talitha: 1 (LoudmouthLee)

Current Condorcet Winner:

None. Current Smith Set: Cogito Ergo Sum, Sarcastro/Dani Banani, Dragon Phoenix, foolinc, Gaspar, IH, logicticus, LoudmouthLee, MrBuddyLee, PookyTheMagicalBear, Talitha, Tamuz, VitaminR, Zindaras, No Lynch, Mr. Grey

To view the complete table of pairwise results, put this information in this form.

[Gaspar]

Aha. No vote for petroleumjelly. That strikes out one possibility, but we still need to check for other present-bodied characters. I suppose it's time for yet another test vote:

Vote: Violet

, Mr. Grey, MrBuddyLee, Jade, Talitha, [CES, Sarcastro, Dragon Phoenix, logicticus, PookyTheMagicalBear, Tamuz, VitaminR, Zindaras], [LoudmouthLee, IH, foolinc], No Lynch, Gaspar

[MrBuddyLee]

fos: Gaspar

Can you please explain why I'm your top suspect? The fact that you're supporting my lynch while running out the clock with the four corners offense is less than thrilling. Are you the least bit concerned that we may run short on time and end up with a suboptimal lynch? If I claimed something believable right now, would you be caught with your pants down?

[IH]

Four corners offense is actually pretty good against a spread or a man.

[MrBuddyLee]

Yeah, that's why I'm goin with the halfcourt press at the moment...

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Um Lee, that's not even timestamped, how would I know that you hadn't updated it? There's nothing on that page that even says that you haven't updated it.

What I do find curious is that it says on its last time of log in is TODAY.

Why would you log in to a dating site when you're engaged? If you wanted to prove your innocence surely you should've just referred us to this webpage without logging in or searching for yourself on that website without logging in and then giving us the link in order to prove that it wasn't editted recently since that time of last login will show you haven't logged in recently and thus prove that it was indeed enterred in earlier.

I find it hard to believe you use that idiom commonly if you cannot reference a single timestamped post on this forum or any other that would show you used that word in that instance and instead produce this dating thing that could've been changed at any time.

[Gaspar]

(Glork.)

fos: Gaspar

Can you please explain why I'm your top suspect?

Absolutely.

It starts with Adele's play, which I feel is pretty well-documented. I have already talked about my dislike of her. I also realize that you have said "yeah, I don't get it, but I'm not her," and I don't like

that

response either. Even if you disagree with or do not understand her behavior, you are still accountable for it. As far as I can recall, you've barely made any effort whatsoever to explain where she might have come from. The vast majority of competent replacements for scummy players at least try to offer some objective, protown rationale for what their predecessors might have been thinking. Your downplaying of Adele's play strikes me as very shady. I distinctly feel that you were just trying to sweep Adele under the rug, hoping nobody would notice.

I didn't like your initial Condorcet. No Lynch, then a dead player. I realize that you said it was temporary and you were still reading, and blahblah, but it just doesn't make sense to me at all.

Also, while FoSing me for "hammering on irrelevant issues at T-48" (I would argue that criticizing part of your game review and your choice of votes were both perfectly relevant -- another point, that you seemed to want to downplay my attention on you as being), you never managed to answer a significant mark I had against you:

On an unrelated note, a question for you, MBL:
If Foolinc is lynched today as town, what kind of player on the "avoiding/letting slide the issue" list would you be inclined to believe is likely scum?
If Foolinc is lynched today as scum, what kind of player on the "avoiding/letting slide the issue" list would you be inclined to believe is likely scum?


This whole "let's lynch Foolinc then look at the people who avoided the issue" thing reeks of going for a double mislynch, and it's giving me butterflies about a Foolinc lynch.

You had stated that you felt people were "trying to slide by" but you didn't know which way. The way I interpreted it (and correct me if I'm wrong)... if he turned up town, people would be "sliding by" and voting for him. If he turned up scum, people would be "sliding by" and avoiding lynching him.

It certainly strikes me as being a ploy you'd make if there are two mafia groups. While we don't yet have anything definite regarding that matter, I've filed it away for further use. Either way, I am especially wary of the "mislynch Foolinc, mislynch somebody who was voting him lazily" ploy, as that's exactly the kind of thing I'd expect from you.



This wasn't one of the reasons I had suspected you, but this comment makes me curious:

I lynch people who are lazy and who lack curiosity, because those traits bely the fact that you aren't uncertain about alignments for the most part.

What exactly is it about a lazy or "uncurious" player that makes you think they "aren't uncertain about alignments"? I see lazy players all the time who are protown -- probably at least as often as I see lazy scums. Could you explain how you differentiate between LazyTown and LazyScum?

You spent an awful lot of time asking people questions about Foolinc (town), Mgm (town), Skruffs (town), and Dani (whom I believe is town). Yet you seemed hesitant to give your actual opinions of many players beyond your initial reread of the game. While I appreciate the "make other people talk" sentiment, much of the middle portion of your posts is just you asking questions without giving a single actual opinion of anybody.

You did start off D2 with a reasonable listing of your thoughts on select players, but you have once again resorted to asking a few questions and commenting on recent discussions without contributing much of your own personal opinions. You've yet to vote today, and only recently have you begun to defend LoudmouthLee, whom you labeled scummy in that start-of-day read.

Basically, I get the impression that you're asking select questions to/about select players to direct discussion and appear to contribute without actually giving any of your own personal input. That's a pretty major tell in my book.





PREVIEW EDIT: Pooky, what are your thoughts on players not named LoudmouthLee?

[Tamuz]

Gaspar why did you wait so long to start testing and checking off those options?

Honestly it was your idea and so easily checked that you could have done it at any time.

And logi I do have preferences, but that Condorcet was much more to make something decisive in that argument that put up an actual Condorcet. Alphabetical just sounded fun at the time.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Another thing that I wanted to mention

Everyone dead seems to be listed in the deadcount as what they appear in the linked reference articles to the best of my knowledge(if i missed something, someone point it out please).

Here's the thing, Mercedes in our reference is listed as Mercédès Herrera, Lee claimed

Name: Mercedes.

All dead players so far match directly their name with the name on the reference and mine matches as well.

[Tamuz]

The vast majority of competent replacements for scummy players at least try to offer some objective, protown rationale for what their predecessors might have been thinking.

This is awkward

[Gaspar]

Gaspar why did you wait so long to start testing and checking off those options?

Honestly it was your idea and so easily checked that you could have done it at any time.

In case you didn't notice, Grey didn't start doing Condorcet listings until today, in accordance with the rules of the game, as cited in this post. Thus, I had to wait for Grey's voting updates each page before I could move my vote elsewhere.

[Gaspar]

The vast majority of competent replacements for scummy players at least try to offer some objective, protown rationale for what their predecessors might have been thinking.

This is awkward

I think it would be, except there was not clearly defined case against PWS. He fell behind on his reading early and then requested replacement due to time commitments. In fact, as indicated when I made my case againg Xyzzy towards the end of D1, people were just kinda lumping him towards the upper third of their suspicion lists without really saying much concrete about him. If anything, that's the sign of scums going after a weak sheep.

[Gaspar]

I would imagine, Pooky, that he said "Mercedes" because it was obvious which character he was talking about. You're really,

really

reaching, I think.

FoS: Pooksies

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Read the text of his actual claim.

He wrote it exactly as it appears in our role pms, format and all. why leave out the last name if it's there?

he didn't say "My name is Mercedes"

or I'm Mercedes

He said

"Name: Mercedes"

[Gaspar]

I don't see how that makes any difference at all.

[Gaspar]

EBWOP: And no, it wasn't exactly as it appears in our role PMs. It says "[bold]Role Name:[/bold] <<rolename>>"

It's obvious he didn't copy/paste anything, because it didn't have the accent, but I'm guessing he probably was more concerned with getting his claim posted quickly and not worried about formatting or writing the full name. Does that seem so unreasonable to you?

[Gaspar]

EBWOP Again: Oh wait, he

did

say it with the accents. You're just the lazy one. Also, he italicized it, and the next line said "Role Type: Searching Townie."

Now I'm just confused. Pooky, could you explain what exactly leads you to believe that his claim was fabricated?