California Trilogy - Dantès in Fresno (Game Over!)

[Mr. Grey]

Vote Count:

8 to lynch.

IH: 1 (Talitha)
MrBuddyLee: 1 (VitaminR)
Talitha: 1 (LoudmouthLee)
Mr. Grey: 1 (Gaspar)

[IH]

LML it's already been proven that that proves nothing I believe.

[IH]

1.That's in a different format, first off. When your Lace Xyzzy was posted, it was seperated. It was in two different paragraphs. It was seperated by a quote. It wasn't in the same sentence. There are way to many possible restrictions for that to prove anything.

2.It could be a one shot, or alternating action (as has been mentioned) Like you can only do it on even days.

3.Maybe you can only do it on certain players. Or it was a gift from someone.

4.The method of sending it in could be changed. Maybe one day it would be all caps, the next day pm, the third day italics, the fourth day a different phrase, etc etc etc.

This doesn't mean that LML did it, btw, it just means that his Lace X proves nothing. The scenario of SK noticing it and killing is just as likely. I think the above proves that LML didn't breadcrumb it at least.

[Talitha]

The fact that no-one has been day-killed yet today points even more strongly at Lee being the culprit, IMO. If there were an anti-town day-killer who isn't Lee... surely he would've framed Lee. At the very least Lee would've worried about being framed (like Gaspar pointed out) unless he knew he

couldn't

be framed. His reactions are pretty much cementing my suspicions.

So on the condorcet he goes.

vote: IH

, Lee, Dani, MrBuddyL

[LoudmouthLee]

The fact that no-one has been day-killed yet today points even more strongly at Lee being the culprit, IMO. If there were an anti-town day-killer who isn't Lee... surely he would've framed Lee. At the very least Lee would've worried about being framed (like Gaspar pointed out) unless he knew he

couldn't

be framed. His reactions are pretty much cementing my suspicions.

So on the condorcet he goes.

vote: IH

, Lee, Dani, MrBuddyL

You're ignoring the following possibilities...

#1) The possibility that Mr. Grey is the killer.
#2) The possibility that the "poisoner" is a vig who does not want to be outted.

I find it very odd that, if you feel I'm "guilty" that you have Dani Banani (who is now Sarcastro) on your condorcet. This is, of course, because Sarcastro pointed out the LACE comment.

Your actions do not jive with someone who is pro-town. I like my vote exactly where it is, and I would appreciate everyone to take a long hard look at Tally today. She is the correct lynch. Look back at the beginning of the day with her reactions to Foolinc.

She's looking to mislynch here... and looking to mislynch badly. Tally is definately the right play.

[Talitha]

Sorry Sarcastro, that's the second time I've forgotten you.

Why do you find it odd that I would have a player on my condorcet who noticed something suspicious about another player on my condorcet? The only reason this would be odd is if we had some kind of evidence that there is only one scum group.. and even then it could be distancing. Do we only have one scum group Lee.. is that why you felt compelled to say it's odd?

vote: IH

, LML, Sarcastro, MrBuddyL

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Really Lee? Scum can't point out helpful things why?

I'm still waiting for that example of you using that word in that context in the past.

I really don't like that last post, randomly throwing out possibilities does not debunk the point that you used the word lace in a suspicious manner that followed with a death of a player.

If you can not come up with a single example of a time when you used lace in that manner, my conclusion will have to be that you had a certain way of triggering a one time kill and you used the other connotation of the word lace in order to try to hide your kill action.

[Tamuz]

Lets see. I agree with MBL, there is way too much effort being wasted on something that really seems pointless to argue about. Gaspar although does have certain good points, but I fail to see his logic behind writing a possible plan of action that seems to not have any negative effects (if he tests it out), yet he fails to try it.

Pooky is on the up and up with me

I can't really support the idiomatic use of lace in English. And yes, I am not Dutch.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Alright, gone through this day's discussion

Cogito Ergo Sum: no additional notes.

foolinc: did not buy his doctor claim fully yesterday, but two scum groups could indeed have relied on the other to take care of him. For the time being still the benefit of the doubt

Gaspar, replacing PlaysWithSquirrels D1: although I am in two minds about the mod/SK thing (I can see mith using it), Gaspars post 1084 seems a bit off. It borders on a no-lynch recommendation unless the theory is right.

IH, replacing Oman D1: I agree that the innocent Fresnino thing does look a bit suspicious, but I would not put it past mith to throw in something like this.

logicticus: no additional notes.

LoudmouthLee: no change on his read. I don't buy the capitalized SK/scum day kill theory, far too direct for an experienced mod like mith to include.

MrBuddyLee, replacing Adele D2: post 1045 does not sit well with me. At all. Difficult to point out what exactly, but it set off scum bells in my head.

PookyTheMagicalBear: depending on how the LML thing turns out, post 1092 is either insightful or scummy. For the time being I tend to think of LML as innocent, which makes this post more scummy (looking for an easy victim).

Sarcastro, replacing Dani Banani D3, Mastermind of Sin D1: no additional notes.

Talitha: don't see much in the discussion around whether she has prior knowledge about the size of scum groups. Any experienced player would reason the way she did. I like her defense against this, and in general she moves down my scumminess rating.

Tamuz, replacing Thestatusquo D1: no additional notes.

VitaminR: I like post 1058 and the case made against Adele/MBL.

Zindaras : no additional notes.

So the condorcet, adjusted from yesterday.

Vote MrBuddyLee

, Sarcastro, Cogito Ergo Sum, [Gaspar, Pooky, Tamuz], [IH, Logisticus, Talitha, VitaminR, Zindaras], Foolinc, LML, DP, no lynch

[foolinc]

1.That's in a different format, first off. When your Lace Xyzzy was posted, it was seperated. It was in two different paragraphs. It was seperated by a quote. It wasn't in the same sentence. There are way to many possible restrictions for that to prove anything.

2.It could be a one shot, or alternating action (as has been mentioned) Like you can only do it on even days.

3.Maybe you can only do it on certain players. Or it was a gift from someone.

4.The method of sending it in could be changed. Maybe one day it would be all caps, the next day pm, the third day italics, the fourth day a different phrase, etc etc etc.

This doesn't mean that LML did it, btw, it just means that his Lace X proves nothing. The scenario of SK noticing it and killing is just as likely. I think the above proves that LML didn't breadcrumb it at least.

I'm in full agreement here. LML's Lace X stuff today proves nothing. There are too many variables to think about at this point, so we should probably leave it a lone till there is a bit more information.

[IH]

DP, what do you think of LML's 'confidence' in posting the Lace X players? What do you think of his general attitude since the duel between cubs and his claim?

[Dragon Phoenix]

I think the whole LACE XYZ thing is bollocks and that LML is reacting on it in a way that I can't blame him for. Hence I still have him as very low on my suspicion list.

[MrBuddyLee]

MrBuddyLee, replacing Adele D2: post 1045 does not sit well with me. At all. Difficult to point out what exactly, but it set off scum bells in my head.

vote: MrBuddyLee

May I ask you to sit down with a glass of brandy and a cigar sometime today and qualify your quarrel with that post? From what you've typed, it sounds like maybe you agree with my suspicions and observations but dislike the tenor? I also note that your vote keeps me neck and neck with IH, someone I expressed mild displeasure with in the post you didn't like.

DP, you had IH in the middle of your suspicions list until early today, when you cited his post 657 as a reason for finding him protown and moved IH to the bottom of your list. 657 was a patented IH wall-o-text, which I agree looks thoughtful, but it's also the post in which IH voted for LML despite the "innocent investigation". Would you say IH's vote was remotely appropriate, and if not, would you speculate on how you view his alignment in light of that vote and line of discussion?

IH, your top suspicions have been Skruffs, Mgm, BM, VitR, LML. You've mentioned that you found DP scummy on a particular topic but never included him in ANY of your Condorcets and you've actually defended him from two players. Can you please explain the evolution of your thought on his alignment in this game?

[IH]

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:47 pm Post subject: 1136

I think the whole LACE XYZ thing is bollocks and that LML is reacting on it in a way that I can't blame him for. Hence I still have him as very low on my suspicion list.

This wasn't the answer. I asked how you felt about his attitude. About how he said it. Not about if you thought it meant anything.

IH, your top suspicions have been Skruffs, Mgm, BM, VitR, LML. You've mentioned that you found DP scummy on a particular topic but never included him in ANY of your Condorcets and you've actually defended him from two players. Can you please explain the evolution of your thought on his alignment in this game?

Bleh, I'm really on the fence about DP. I felt that in the beginning he was town, and then I felt later that my initial read seemed to be wrong, and atm I just don't know.

I'm going to have to eventually go through some more of the thread to try and get a better read on this game. This is why I haven't made a condorcent yet, but if I had to make one right now, it would probably have Talitha, you, LML, Grey, Sarc, and maybe VitR in it. Unsure of the order.

[VitaminR]

The fact that no-one has been day-killed yet today points even more strongly at Lee being the culprit, IMO. If there were an anti-town day-killer who isn't Lee... surely he would've framed Lee. At the very least Lee would've worried about being framed (like Gaspar pointed out) unless he knew he

couldn't

be framed. His reactions are pretty much cementing my suspicions.

So on the condorcet he goes.

vote: IH

, Lee, Dani, MrBuddyL

Wow, that's bad reasoning. There's still a very strong possibility that the day-killer isn't anti-town or that the day-kill was one-shot, limited to a specific number, limited to a specific time frame, limited to specific circumstances, automated in some way, etc.

Frankly, I don't see the assumption of an anti-town day-killer totally free in executing someone every day as all that straightforward.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Not to mention that that assumption totally doesn't jive with the xyzzy kill. I don't really care that LmL used LACE and XYZZY. FoS: whoever brought it up. You wasted our time with your petty suspicions. Die, person whose identity I'm too lazy to look up!

[Tamuz]

Sarc

[Gaspar]

Quick check-in post by Glork. I was out of commission all weekend (various complications which ultimately resulted in me spending the entire weekend out of town), and I've only skimmed recent posts. Interesting to note that I actually managed to vote for Grey. Time to test the next part of this exploration.

Also, because some people apparently think I'm trying to swing a no-lynch, I'm going to ask for some clarification on this whole matter:

Unvote
Vote: petroleumjelly

Please see the Post Content section of the rules regarding asking questions of the Mod. - Mod

[IH]

Not to mention that that assumption totally doesn't jive with the xyzzy kill. I don't really care that LmL used LACE and XYZZY. FoS: whoever brought it up. You wasted our time with your petty suspicions. Die, person whose identity I'm too lazy to look up!

Uh, yeah it was Sarc, and he even admitted it's just as possible that someone set LML up.

[MrBuddyLee]

There's no WAY someone set LML up. That would be the all-time greatest reflex action in the history of mafia. It's either a coincidence or Lee's a dirty little bitch.

[Sarcastro]

Not to mention that that assumption totally doesn't jive with the xyzzy kill. I don't really care that LmL used LACE and XYZZY. FoS: whoever brought it up. You wasted our time with your petty suspicions. Die, person whose identity I'm too lazy to look up!

Yeah, because clearly the pro-town thing to do is not to point out something that everyone else missed.

I don't know what to make of all of this. I really don't. I don't care if it looks scummy or what, but I felt like the best thing to do would be to point it out to everyone and see what the general opinion was. Do you think I'm trying to get LML lynched? Do you think I'm cleverly trying to trick someone else into pushing the lynch while I remain non-committal? Doesn't seem to be working out too well for me.

Seriously, I'm mystified as to how anybody can find my bringing this up scummy. Are you seriously saying you wouldn't at least have

mentioned

something like this if you noticed it?

[Talitha]

I don't think LACE is a coincidence, here's why: It's linked to poison, it was used along with the victim's name right before he died, if the search function is to be believed, the word 'lace' has not been used by anyone on mafiascum since 2003, and it reminds me of the kinds of roles that mith had in Verbose 2 (The mafia had to post a certain phrase publicly in order to recruit the traitor). Just my opinion, but Lee is looking mighty shady right now.

I also went back and found that Tamuz included Mr Grey in his condorcet in post 831. Will be interesting to see how the PJ vote is treated by the mod.

[LoudmouthLee]

I don't think LACE is a coincidence, here's why: It's linked to poison, it was used along with the victim's name right before he died, if the search function is to be believed, the word 'lace' has not been used by anyone on mafiascum since 2003, and it reminds me of the kinds of roles that mith had in Verbose 2 (The mafia had to post a certain phrase publicly in order to recruit the traitor). Just my opinion, but Lee is looking mighty shady right now.

I also went back and found that Tamuz included Mr Grey in his condorcet in post 831. Will be interesting to see how the PJ vote is treated by the mod.

On track mind, eh?

I use the word lace consistently. It was a word choice. I like to vary my sentences. I have been known to lace into people, and that is my idiom of choice. I'm sure I've used it on here before, but even if I hadn't, it's a common American idiom.

Lace does mean to poison, point taken, but it also means those pretty little doilies that people have on their endtables. You know, the ones that you put on a glasstop so the vase doesn't scratch the glass? Yeah. That's a lace.

My secret word, FWIW, is "Charms". Makes sense, since Mercedes is widely considered to be Charming.

Hey, if "lace" was my secret word, I implore you, look back at D1 and find me saying the word.

Tally, You need to be hung.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

1. What does the secret word have to do with a possible dayaction command?

2. Who cares if you didn't use it day 1? what if anything does that prove?

3. If you use it so consistently, why can't you cite a single example timestamped to before using it in this game?

4. I don't understand the collective urge to let him off the hook so quickly.

5. Yea we know lace has a lot of meanings, so what? the meaning we are interested in is the one that involves lacing somebody's drink with poison.

6. I've honestly never heard lace used in that context before and I found the word choice very strange, Lee, you can alleviate a lot of stress on my part by just citing a single instance of your usage of that word in that context in the past.

7. Stop trying to distract us with completely random stuff that in no way exonerates you after appeal to emotion failed.

[LoudmouthLee]

http://www.okcupid.com/profile?u=LoudmouthLee

Last updated BEFORE I got married and before my tryout of World Series of Pop Culture.

Look for the "What I'm doing on a typical Saturday night".

What now, Pooky? My pictures are there and you can see HOW LONG i've been a member for.