[OLD] Open Setup Discussion and Nominations

[JDodge]

Uhhh, what result are you expecting the Cop to get? "Goldfish"?

Fishy Mafia

1 Goldfish (Mafia)
2 Carp (Mafia)
8 Trout (Townie)
1 Flounder (Rolename Cop)

[bird1111]

Accidently posted w/o the bodyguard description

[bird1111]

Bodyguard 7 Player
2 Mafia
1 Cop
1 Bodyguard-if successfully protects someone, he/she dies instead of the person that was targeted
3 Townies

[Thesp]

But this would be a open game, would it not? While I like the prospect of the chief, I dont feel that it would force it to be themed. If the players know exactly what is going on with the roles, as they would if it was Open, it could happen.

An Open Game has two features - it is a Normal Game with an Open Setup. Exceptions to these two standards (particularly, to the Normal standard) should be infrequent and for good reason. (Also, "because this setup is cool" is not good reason.) There have been a number of very good setups that I would like to see run and/or play in, but would not put in the Open Game queue. (There are a few I wish I hadn't put in the Open Game queue because I think it probably ought to be more restrictive, and likely wouldn't make it through the second time.)

I'm going back about two months to give some quick thoughts. Yaw's Split Open mafia is a neat idea, but I think the role switcher/re-opener/night communicator concepts are too complex for OG status. NabakovNabakov's setups for Capture the Flag Mafia and Electoral College Mafia are not at all Normal status. xyzzy's Mountain Mafia has an unworkable win condition for mafia. Adel's Donner Party Mafia is really neat, but doesn't fall in OG status. Patrick's Target Mafia is also a neat idea - not sure on Normal status, though it is easy to explain. I think the idea has potential, but in some altered form. I

love

C9++, but I'm concerned that new mods will cry if they get the setup, and I think most mods who run through the OG queue are newbie mods (and I don't want ruined OG's by mods not understanding the setup). Guardian's SEAG Mafia is alright, I guess - I'm not seeing anyone wowed by it. It could run, though, if I'm incorrect. xyzzy's Lovers Mafia is cute if not nightless (add more townies?), though I kind of want to see how Big Love turns out to test the lovers mechanic first. Ether's Lovely Mafia is alright, though the Adapter in Scumpower Mafia makes that one a little too complex for an OG (though I like the idea). ShadowLurker's Setup B is good and could see play, though Setup A is trash (see my essay on Nurse roles as to why this is). Somestangeflea's An Open Game with Roles Which Affect Voting is clearly outside of OG status, as it's nowhere near a Normal Game (and voteless roles are unequivocally terrible). I don't get Draux's Scumdar Malfunction, as well as most other setups involving an overly large number of Millers, designed to make cop investigations worthless. They affect play more than expected by the endgame. I guess it's okay (and I prefer Adel's version for its elegance), and I suppose I can't like every game. IH's Bus Driver Mafia suffers from a similar flaw as C9++, in that it's not immediately clear to newbies how to run the game (especially nightchoices on this one). Primate's Something Something Mafia needs some balance testing before I consider it. With apologies to Sir Tornado, No Press Mafia suffers significant flaws (including balance), and there's no compelling reason to deny scum the opportunity to talk. (I'm going to do a mini-essay on that someday - the importance of scum conversation in game design.) shaft.ed's Nightshift Mafia is clearly outside the OG scope. Kelly Chen's nameless setup is a little unclear on some points (Devil's alignment? Lyncher's win condition mutually exclusive?). VamapnezeHunter's Deathly Mafia needs to be reviewed for balance before being considered, and I'm not wild about 2 mafia kills even still. I share Kelly Chen's concerns about Raffles' Mafia: Double Agent setup, though I like the concept very very much. I'm still trying to wrap my head around Max's Unlynchee Mafia. I like IH's SuperKill Mafia, pondering whether it's within OG scope. PookyTheMagicalBear's Masons and Mafia is outside the OG scope by a lot, as is Trojan Horse's Screwy C9 Mafia. I like xyzzy's(?) Jeep Classic+++ a lot, don't know on balance. IH's Shell-Shocked Mafia is cute - I just wish there were a more succinct way of explaining the shellshocked medic. mith's C9 with a slice of Pie looks really good, too. JDodge's Mini Love looks good, in fact I think I like it better than the earlier-referenced Lovers Mafia. VampanezeHunter's Carry on Mafia! is unplayable from the GF's perspective, and too swingy given the low townie ratio. Adel's Fast Street Mafia is neat, and is probably well suited to a theme game. (Time-based roles/abilities are best suited for theme games, I think.) It's otherwise fine. xyzzy's Uncle C9 is too potentially unbalanced to consider. Kaleidoscope's Confusing Bad Idea is already appropriately labeled as a theme game, it's just in the wrong thread. Adel's Violent Mafia feels really swingy - does the town have enough control over this game? Also, re: Adel's Paranoid Scum Mafia (in either form), I don't know if the town controls enough of the game to be viable. I may be wrong. Thyroidectomy's Negative Pick Your Poison is alright, I suppose - though I don't like the hamstringing of the doctor or cop. Tarhalindur's Mason's Dilemma gives zero incentive to mass-claiming - I don't think that's a good thing. JDodge's Formula Mafia seems fine to me. Sammich's three setups aren't appealing to me, but they fall in the OG scope. I don't

get

shaft.ed's Hide and Seeker Mafia. JDodge's Fishy Mafia made me laugh so hard, that if I was somehow biologically able to breastfeed, milk would have snorted out of my nose.

I'll be looking to put up setups that have been nominated by at least two people who didn't create them, and that fit the OG scope. The one that jumped out at me was Texas Justice Mafia, re-nominate anything you think I might have missed (or that we should run).

Hope that helps!

[Simenon]

Nominate Vigilante Mafia 2

3 Goons
1 Vigilante
8 Townies
Day start

.

[Kelly Chen]

I want to clarify this setup, since Thesp brought it up:

I'm thinking of a setup like this:

2 goons
1 devil (gets "power role" (cop/doc) or "not a power role")
1 SK (no buffs)
1 lyncher (target is a townie)
5 townies
1 unprotectable cop (detects goons and SK)
1 doctor

Lyncher's win condition never changes; he always has the ability to win as a protown survivor.

Basically a low power game (less swingy) with a number of distinct motivations. I don't think this setup is perfect but maybe I'll hit on something better...

The devil is promafia. I didn't think it necessary to say that. Mafia win condition would be for at least one goon to live, and everyone else except possibly the devil to be dead. If the second goon dies, the devil immediately exits the game (since a win is impossible).

A lyncher win would not be exclusive. He would exit the game if his target is lynched. If the target is nightkilled while the lyncher lives, the lyncher can only win as a protown survivor. He can also win that way if the target never dies. (In other words, I want to replace the "standard" lyncher behavior that if the target is nightkilled, the lyncher turns into a townie.)

For convenience I will dub this

Highlander Grog Mafia

after a flavor of coffee I like...

[Guardian]

nominate Mini Love

Nominate AITP

[Adel]

thanks for the feedback. now i have a couple of open setups that I'll want to run as theme games

back to the drawing board....

Day Masons!

1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Day Mason
1 Day Mason (his partner is the Mafia Mason)
2 Day Masons
2 Townies

7 players, Day Start

[Zindaras]

I think the setup for Formula One doesn't lend itself to an open game.

[Max]

The unlyncher is famous already and I only invented it yesterday, Super strange flea edited my page...
It looks a lot nicer and makes a lot more sense

I've edited a bit

1 Unlyncher (loses if Unlynchee is lynched)
1 Unlynchee (Townie)
5 Other Townies (wins if lynches unlyncher and mafia)
2 Mafia.

What do you think

Win conditions

Unlyncher - Must make sure unlynchee is not lynched (may die in another way) (
Unlynchee - Wins With Town
Town - wins when unlyncher is dead and mafia is dead
Mafia - wins when unlyncher is dead and controls majority

Thesp what don't you understand about this

[Thok]

Max: why wouldn't the unlyncher just claim his role and target, and then start hunting for mafia? You're basically giving the town a weakened two person mason group.

[Max]

sorry but the town have to kill the unlynchee aswell

[Mr. Flay]

I don't think Unlynchee is workable, and it certainly doesn't meet the definition of Normal.

[Max]

but it can't be really classed as a theme when it's 1 players role that's different

[somestrangeflea]

OK, what if the Unlynchee is killed? Does the Unlyncher die? Does the Unlyncher still have to be killed by the town for the town to win?

[Max]

the unlyncher loses and has failed his objective and should be removed from game until a winner has been achieved

[shaft.ed]

the unlyncher loses and has failed his objective and should be removed from game until a winner has been achieved

I think you should make his win conditiont he same as the lyncher, whereby he wins with the town if he survives to end game. He needs to have a reason to play if his target dies.

[IH]

What does a setup being cute mean? <.<;

[IH]

Also Thesp, Superkill is similar to switch mafia, and it was run as an OG.

[shaft.ed]

Hide and Seeker Mafia

3 X Mafia Goons
2 X Hiders
1 X RoleCop
1 X 50% Roleblocker, 25% Vig, 25% town
1 X Seeker (wins if lynches either hider)
4 X Town

Mafia wins as normal
Town wins as normal
Seeker wins if lynches either hider before himself or the hiders are killed. He must be voting on the hider lynch for it to count.

Sorry if this didn't make any sense. The Seeker role is an uninformed lyncher. He needs to find one of the two Hiders in the game and get them lynched. The Hiders have night actions just like normal hiders. They can target someone else and spend the night with them. If they are then targeted by mafia for NK, they will survive, but if the person they targeted is NK'd they die as well. So basically the cop can find the hiders, or hunt mafia at night. And the mafia can find the hiders either by chosing a hiding place where they would expect them to target, or attempt NK'ing them but upon an unsuccessful NK the mafia will know who a hider is and can avoid their lynch during the day phase.

Anyway two other simpler set-ups

Just a Flesh Wound

C9 where the cop and doc are replaced with a bulletproof townie and an unlynchable townie thus 25% of each of the following:
2 Goons, 1 BP, 1 UL, 3 townies
2 Goons, 1 BP, 4 townies
2 Goons, 1 UL, 4 townies
2 Gooons, 5 townies
If end gamed with one goon and one BP townie it's declared a tie

Simple Serial Killer

1 SK
4 townies
^Really extravagant here I know^

[shaft.ed]

The devil is promafia.

Guessing he knows who the mafia are? So he's bascially a buffed traitor.

[shaft.ed]

IH, with Superkill are you worried about the double roleblockers effectively screwing over the other town powerroles?

[Kelly Chen]

No, a devil doesn't know who's in the mafia, nor vice versa. His entire purpose is to role-fish.

Devil is also called "mafia spy," I believe with the same definition.

Games with 1 SK are what you do when you don't have enough players.

[shaft.ed]

No, a devil doesn't know who's in the mafia, nor vice versa. His entire purpose is to role-fish.

Devil is also called "mafia spy," I believe with the same definition.

Seems like it would be very difficult to have any impact on your win condition. Would it be worth giving them a N0 headstart on their investigation?

Games with 1 SK are what you do when you don't have enough players.

Yeah, I can never convince anyone to play mafia in RL so limited to this style game. Thought it might be fun for kicks.

[Yaw]

Yaw's Split Open mafia is a neat idea, but I think the role switcher/re-opener/night communicator concepts are too complex for OG status.

Mostly agreed -- I even moved it to MoS's mod searching thread since posting it here. The worst part of it is that opens are randomly assigned and mostly to newbie mods, and the role switcher role is one of the most difficult things to mod ever. The paper trail to keep track of what's happened can very quickly spiral out of control. Sticking a newbie mod with that isn't fair.

That said, for the sake of argument, how is a night communicator too complex for OG status? It's just a mason group, and those are in line with normal games...