Mini 427 - Clue Mafia 2 - GAME OVER

[dahen]

Well, now it should be night soon in both other games. Erg0, please explain your vote for CD.

I'm starting a reread.

[dahen]

As I recall, In the 2nd ending to the movie it was Mrs. Peacock who was guilty. Mass claim and lynch Mrs. Peacock?

Actually, I think this should be thought over again. Clue 3 seems to follow the movie ending very well. So even if there are some additions (like the cop being guilty here, we could use the information).

Scum would benefit from the information if there is a connection between power roles and certain characters, but I'm not so sure there is.

We KNOW that TCS chose to fake claim his character. Why would he do that unless he really didn't want us to know that he was the cop?

that was an unnecessary claim by billy. If he was the roleblocker he could have hammered tcs and not claimed. I doubt him somewhat, he could be scum bussing his partner.

This is interesting, but would require them to agree on claiming the other guy's character when in a bad spot to be able to get the hammer.

My primary suspects after this reread are Ancalagon, al, and ectomancer

I'd say exactly one scum here.

More thoughts: I don't like MBL refusing to have the soup.
I've written that one of Ecto and CD is scum based on TCS' behavior before he was caught. I've got to try to remember what I meant with this.

But since Anca-Skruffs and Alko are revealed town and I don't think TCS would put three townies on his suspect list, I'm going to

accuse Ectomancer

This fits well with how quick he jumped on BM for voting me.

[dahen]

I can't really let it go - Why would TCS claim to be another character than he was? He has obviously looked up the characters in the movie and chosen one for the claim. Didn't he realize that since we have 12 players and Mr Body was dead night 0 (or was he, he might still be around, since the first death was faked), we really should have all characters already taken?

suspect BT

[Haschel Cedricson]

I can't really let it go - Why would TCS claim to be another character than he was? He has obviously looked up the characters in the movie and chosen one for the claim. Didn't he realize that since we have 12 players and Mr Body was dead night 0 (or was he, he might still be around, since the first death was faked), we really should have all characters already taken?

suspect BT

BT has already been investigated and was found innocent.

As for TCS, I have no idea why he would claim somebody else. Perhaps he was hoping to hit the thirteenth character. Or maybe he felt the claiming The Cop would cause a counterclaim by the cop. I don't know; none of those theories are very good.

[dahen]

BT has already been investigated and was found innocent.

Oh, sorry, I didn't get that far in my reread.

unsuspect BT

[Mastermind of Sin]

dahen - (Battle Mage)
Battle Mage - (Ectomancer)
chaotic_diablo - (Erg0)
Ectomancer - (dahen)

[MrBuddyLee]

vote: Ectomancer

[DragonsofSummer]

accuse Ectomancer

I think that dahen makes a very logical arguement here.

[Mastermind of Sin]

5 to lynch, that's 3 on ectomancer.

[Ectomancer]

accuse Ectomancer

I think that dahen makes a very logical arguement here.

Really? I saw speculation that these games match up with the movie. While Clue 3 seemed to have matched perfectly, I seriously doubt that MOS would have allowed a mass claim in all 3 games to reveal the scum.
The other speculation was WIFOM over whether scum would list 3 townies on their suspicion list.

Please detail this logic you agree with, I didn't find any logic myself.

[Battle Mage]

i dont really see an Ecto-vote here from what i recall of the game.

[DragonsofSummer]

I like the logic of TCS not putting 3 townies on his suspect list. (And tbh even after a reread its my best lead... since BM looks scummiest to me, but I am unwilling to vote a claimed cop)

[Ectomancer]

I like the logic of TCS not putting 3 townies on his suspect list. (And tbh even after a reread its my best lead... since BM looks scummiest to me, but I am unwilling to vote a claimed cop)

Like I said, that's not logic. You are guessing whether he would or not. It's a poor basis for a decision.

[DragonsofSummer]

Fair statement.

[dahen]

Ergo? Where are you?

[Erg0]

My vote on c_d: his play's generally pretty lurky and non-commital, and I particularly didn't like this bit from before TCS's lynch...

I threaten TCS with a hammer vote.

It wasn't scummy to move to L-1 Day One in the other game, right? So it's not scummy for me to go

vote: TCS

, right?

Consistency. Billy?

Not entirely the same. Billy made a -1 lynch based on the behavior and actions in another game to influence his judgement. Your vote is simply there to piss him off. The fact that you're intentionally playing in a way that you think is scummy also makes your vote different.

fos MBL

BM's claim is simply due to poor judgement. The only way I can see scumplay on TCS's part is if he tried to exploit BM's poor playstyle. Unfortunately for him, I can also see that happening.

Wishy-washy "I want to hammer but I won't" post, he threatens the hammer, wanders off to MBL and then comes back and says that he isn't sure TCS is scum.

I noticed that he also garnered some attention from other players on day 1, but that seems to have died off completely since then. It seemed like a good time to remind people of that.

[chaotic_diablo]

Wishy-washy "I want to hammer but I won't" post, he threatens the hammer,

Completely wrong interpretation. It isn't "I want to hammer but I won't," but "I will hammer if he doesn't claim." That isn't wishywashy. Overall, there should have been no reason to force TCS to claim if I were scum with him.

wanders off to MBL and then comes back and says that he isn't sure TCS is scum.

MBL was justifying his actions by referring to a similiar one even though the conditions and situation were different. A -1 vote based on support is completely different from a -1 vote based on pissing someone off.
As for TCS, I try to do my best to see how every person can be scum and see what motivates them. While I see only one possible way TCS can be scum, that doesn't mean it is unlikely. In Clue 3, al_ko claimed watcher, yet there was still an open possibility of him being scum.

I noticed that he also garnered some attention from other players on day 1, but that seems to have died off completely since then. It seemed like a good time to remind people of that.

Okay, then make a case about it. How is it scummy?

[Erg0]

You're right, I looked at that particular post out of context when I read back, so I was reading too much into some of it. Initially it was this part that caught my eye:

BM's claim is simply due to poor judgement. The only way I can see scumplay on TCS's part is if he tried to exploit BM's poor playstyle. Unfortunately for him, I can also see that happening.

That part seemed particularly like you were hedging your bets on TCS. Along with your general semi-lurkiness it's enough for a first vote while I'm finding my feet, I feel. Looks like there are a few theories based on games that I'm not in, so I'm going to try and assess their merit relative to just relying on what's in this thread.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Vote Count:

Ectomancer - (dahen, MrBuddyLee, DragonsofSummer)

dahen - (Battle Mage)
Battle Mage - (Ectomancer)
chaotic_diablo - (Erg0)

[Mastermind of Sin]

*bump* past closing spree

[Ectomancer]

I'm still alive.

[Erg0]

I like the logic of TCS not putting 3 townies on his suspect list. (And tbh even after a reread its my best lead... since BM looks scummiest to me, but I am unwilling to vote a claimed cop)

I'm cautious about this idea. It's worth noting that the other two townies on the list were nightkilled, so the scum have deliberately put themselves in this position. I'm not sure whether they would have realised that this argument would come up, but it's worth considering.

[dahen]

Erg0: You are right that scum made exactly these night kills. But they were made the same night, and I don't think a communicating scum group would be able to make two kills. Do you?

TCS was "mafia". I assume that there are more than one member in the mafia family and that one of the kills were mafia. The other kill I don't know, it could be SK, vig, or even another mafia family.

Let's say that TCS did plan for this to happen and deliberately put three townies on the list. That would require the mafia to kill two of them in order to put this much pressure on the third. And why do that instead of trying to hit power roles? Of course it could serve as a backup theory in case they didn't have a clue about power roles or everything could be a coincidence without any planning from the mafia.

Erg0, You said you read too much into CD. Do you still hold him as the most likely scum?

[Ectomancer]

I wanted to get fresh eyes on this game, so I went back to page 1 and started reading, trying to determine who scum might be. We were building a TCS wagon when BT chimes in with some dirt tossed TCS way, but not vote or fos. I thought distancing, someone else thought the same thing.

I don't like TCS' post either. I despise MBL's post. MBL, how about you actually address the issues raised instead of misrepresenting what I have said. I am

not

showing a double standard. I attacked you in Clue 1 because you posted little in Day 1 then came out with a full attack against the most lynchable player on Day 2 while misrepresenting my arguments in that attack. I attacked you in this game because you were obviously active in the game as a whole, but posting nill in this thread. If you can't see that as suspicious play then... I don't know, I guess we won't see eye-to-eye very often.

FoS: Ecto

. TCS didn't "badger" a claim out of BM. In fact in the post before BM claimed TCS told BM that he was not asking for a claim. BM claimed in fear of a speedlynch when the only person (or persons, if you take MBL's version of events as truth) who have shown a propensity for speedlynching were

already

voting for him. BM's play was bad, plain and simple.

Still, something seems odd about TCS' current posting. I don't specifically agree with Jack, as I don't see TCS claiming that his pressure vote is a sign that he is town, but I don't like how TCS backed up my FoS of MBL so quickly. I think maybe he thinks that buddying up to me in this game after defending me in Clue 1 will make me think he is town here as well.

Then TCS' wagon builds some more until finally he asks to be able to claim. BT counterclaims and we lynch TCS. The thing is, TCS didn't even fight. His was the very next post after BT countered and he says "Damn" ie I'm scum. Now roleblocker can be proven, but he didn't offer that up (not that he could have, but he could have bought some time). I would say let's see if BT can prove his roleblocking ability, but he was very careful back then to say he had

not

claimed a role at all, only the name.
Jack asked if this was a bussing, BM asked the same question later but what happened then was that the soup came out. We got on to that discussion, and the question of Billy never was answered by anyone. On a side note, Billy was offered the soup and turned it down. Dahen later posted a breakdown of why scum would be more likely to turn down the soup than town would be. I couldn't refute his logic then, nor now.

Now later on BM does get an innocent investigation on BT, so he's ok right? No, he then tries to get BM lynched with this deal about a "fake claim". Now I admit that it is plausible what he is saying (which makes it even better for scum), but he really wants to lynch a claimed cop with 9 still alive and 1 scum down? I dont think so. He wants his cake (an innocent investigation) and wants to eat it too (lynch the cop and get 'confirmed' while doing it).

Now think back to TCS, why would he fold so easily? He knew that BT would come up innocent on the counterclaim and knew his role. When TCS claimed Billy's name role, Billy spotted the setup (TCS was going down) and took advantage of the situation for a little "confirmation" on Billy.
I think BT is the Godfather, whether he really is the Singing Telegram Girl or not.

vote BillyTwilight

[dahen]

unaccuse

I need to think that over. You are close to lynch and tries to convince us to vote a confirmed innocent. My only problem is that I think your reasoning is fair.

Now, TCS was titled mafia, not "mafia goon", but it's still possible that we have a godfather around and if we do, BT is a good candidate.