Open 19 - Nightless (Over?) before 430

[IH]

Wait. You know his role? Whats that referring to?

[Guardian]

(I'm starting to suspect that the other one falls under something like a "Thok and Guardian have very distinct play styles, that don't match up well with each other".)

I think I might agree with this... I disagree that my attack on you is OMGUS, I haven't ever liked how you sound so sure of... everything.

You basically never expressed suspicion of me until I started attacking you yesterday.

I beg to differ; as soon as you replaced in, I was like "woah, your suspicions are really really off", and you seem like you are really sure about them.

So pardon me if I see a significant amount of OMGUS. The "Thok sounds confident " seems like a bit of a cover to attack me, especially since if you analyze my voting record, you'll see I haven't been confident about stuff.

That's true. I am willing to concede that there is probably some OMGUS, just that it isn't central. I can't help that I get defensive as town. I mean I'm trying to help it but, .

fos: Tony & Thok connection

if IH is somehow town. I really don't like how Tony was trying to imply a me-Thok connection with his last post...

I got more of a "Tony is trying to push the Guardian wagon without getting his hands dirty by voting" vibe.

That is also a possible interpretation. I definitely don't like the comment by him.

Obviously, that's filtered partially by the fact that I know his role

fos: Tony + Thok again...

but Tony also tried to push a you-IH connection earlier today.

How do you read this?

My problem with the IH-Setael connection interpretation of her play is that it ignores the Tony wagon that was the leading wagon at the time. It's unclear to me why Setael scum wouldn't try to save herself by putting more pressure on Tony, as opposed to do the convoluted maneuver to IH you suggested.

As VitaminR explained, it makes for a pretty dirty link to him if IH comes up scum.

Tony being fellow scum suggests a solution to this. (Of course it may be that Setael likes complicated maneuvers, which would also explain her behavior with respect to you and me at the end of the day.)

Yeah. I agree with this bit, both parts are plausible.

Guardian-looking over Oman's early posts I noticed he had a fairly chatty tone with you (specifically he called you his top suspect initially, but also asked you not to sweat that comment). Is there anything from the previous games with the two of you that would explain why he would act that way?

I didn't notice that at the time/remember it, but assuming that that did happen, we've chatted quite a bit on scumchat//played together//and I announced that a replacement was needed in scumchat (with Simenon's express permisson) and Oman responded...

So though I don't really remember a chatty tone, that might help explain it .

[Elias_the_thief]

fos: Tony & Thok connection

if IH is somehow town. I really don't like how Tony was trying to imply a me-Thok connection with his last post...

I got more of a "Tony is trying to push the Guardian wagon without getting his hands dirty by voting" vibe.

Obviously, that's filtered partially by the fact that I know his role

, but Tony also tried to push a you-IH connection earlier today.

Sorry to interject after a long absense, but what?

[Thok]

Wait. You know his role? Whats that referring to?

That should have been "I know my role". I'm obviously too tired to be posting.

(And before you complain about me retconning this, you should note that half of my previous 6 posts in this game have mangled grammar or spelling).

[Elias_the_thief]

Wait. You know his role? Whats that referring to?

That should have been "I know my role". I'm obviously too tired to be posting.

(And before you complain about me retconning this, you should note that half of my previous 6 posts in this game have mangled grammar or spelling).

Alright. That makes sense in context with the post.

[Thok]

For reference Tony pushing (well really more suggesting) an IH-Guardian connection was post 1598.

The Oman thing I mentioned was post 998 (particularly the "sorry, mate", but also the "Don't freaked out")

[VitaminR]

I feel that IH's case on Guardian is very IH-y. I don't necessarily expect that his mass PBPA are all well thought out. I can point out a series of posts by IH in Board Games, where as town he misread stuff.

It's not just misreading stuff. He suggests that Guardian changing his mind is scummy. You could apply that logic to attack anyone in a largish game. By allowing IH to "misread stuff," you're doing the same you say I'm doing. You're pre-empting the question.

You've of course, already preempted that argument by claiming that you don't care whether or not Guardian's arguments are well-founded.

No, some of the arguments I have against IH come back in Guardian's initial case. It has kind of spiralled away from there since, to arguments specific to their discussion.

That said, I also feel you're flat out ignoring stuff that Guardian has done (the MOS/Oman situation is notable and it's weird that you are completely ignoring it).

I'll look at that.

I feel your argument on IH is somewhat circular (he's scum for attacking Guardian, who's town for attacking IH). I realize it's not totally circular, because your arguing that Guardian is town for his style of attack, and not just his choice of attack, but then that begs the question of why you aren't trying to analyze IH's play by looking at his style.

It's the manner in which they do it that matters and I do think IH is less OMGUSy and more sensible in general. Tunnel vision is one thing, but retaliatory tunnel vision is a bit more petty than what I expect from IH.

[Skruffs]

Oh,elias is playing still? You've been quiet today, elias.

[IH]

mkay, I was just clarifying, because that wouldn't have even made me sense to your point I think, but I'm unsure. I'll respond to things if I see fit to respond to them tonight.

[Simenon]

Vote Count

IH (2)- VitaminR, Guardian
VitaminR (1)- Skruffs
Guardian (1)- IH

[Elias_the_thief]

Skruffs:

I'd like to apologize for my tardiness guys...I;m in too many games, and this one is the largest and most difficult to keep up with. The good news is I should be out of one by tomorrow, allowing me to get caught up on this one a little bit.

The game didnt end like I expected, ie I didnt get lynched.

[TonyMoonshine]

Thok, what do you think of IH's case against Guardian? Do you feel he has good arguments?

Post 1668 you tell us not to worry about Guardian and move on. In the very next post you want us to comment on IH's case against Guardian.

Which is it?

Quick answer: I think IH's case against Guardian is either a long OMGUS or 2 scum working together to confuse the town.

[TonyMoonshine]

I got more of a "Tony is trying to push the Guardian wagon without getting his hands dirty by voting" vibe.

Right, I was waiting for Guardian to get to lynch -1 so I could hammer. I was afraid if I voted someone else would remove their vote. I was most worried about Thok. This is definitly a trend. Thok is part of the Guardian wagon early but unvotes and the wagon falls apart. Either he's a townie playin it way too safe or he's scum with Guardian.

[Guardian]

Or you are scum and would love to hammer me like you hammered Adel....

[TonyMoonshine]

Or you are scum and would love to hammer me like you hammered Adel....

It's well known your ONLY goal in this game it to stay alive no matter what.

[Guardian]

that's complete BS, if I have an "ONLY goal in the game" other than lynching scum, it is to get IH lynched...

fos: Tony

again...

[TonyMoonshine]

that's complete BS, if I have an "ONLY goal in the game" other than lynching scum, it is to get IH lynched...

fos: Tony

again...

It's not BS. At least twice now you have been close to lynch and both times you cried and pleaded with everyone not to vote you. You could have spent the time helping the town but were too selfish to do so. I vaguely remeber Occult admitting he played bad but instead of begging those not to vote him, he focused his time on getting everyone to post useful information for the next day.

[IH]

Guardian should I go back and quote every single thing I have said signified your survivor mentality?

I agree with Tony on this point and don't need a smiley to say so.

[Guardian]

You agree that my

only

goal in this game has been to survive?

That's obviously incorrect....

[VitaminR]

Thok, what do you think of IH's case against Guardian? Do you feel he has good arguments?

Post 1668 you tell us not to worry about Guardian and move on. In the very next post you want us to comment on IH's case against Guardian.

Which is it?

Well, they aren't mutually exclusive. I want you to look at IH's case against Guardian because I think that the fact that there is little to it is significant. I don't expect that from IH. Also hoping it will make people doubt the strength of the Guardian-wagon.

[Thok]

Pretty sure that Guardian has been doing things other than trying to get people to unvote him.

I believe this discussion is more of a scum tell for IH than Tony. I'm not happy with IH sheeping onto Tony's opinion. I need to do a check to see whether IH has been following others a lot this game. I think I've noticed him doing it a couple of times before, but I want to gather more evidence. (I also want to see if he's more prone to sheeping as town or scum.)

(In fact, I probably will try to do a massive reread of this game on Thursday.)

[VitaminR]

It's not BS. At least twice now you have been close to lynch and both times you cried and pleaded with everyone not to vote you. You could have spent the time helping the town but were too selfish to do so. I vaguely remeber Occult admitting he played bad but instead of begging those not to vote him, he focused his time on getting everyone to post useful information for the next day.

Occult was a Day 1 lynch. That's different. Also, to say Guardian has been begging people not to lynch him is a gross overstatement. On top of that, both providing useful information for the next day and doing everything you can to avoid getting lynched are valid pro-town tactics.

[TonyMoonshine]

Also, to say Guardian has been begging people not to lynch him is a gross overstatement.

Ummm... No. I remember Guardian saying he would cry if he was lynched.

[VitaminR]

That's still something that's said in a rush of emotion rather than a systematic tactic on his part.

[IH]

You agree that my only goal in this game has been to survive?

That's obviously incorrect....

I would say it's been a large goal of yours.

I believe this discussion is more of a scum tell for IH than Tony. I'm not happy with IH sheeping onto Tony's opinion. I need to do a check to see whether IH has been following others a lot this game. I think I've noticed him doing it a couple of times before, but I want to gather more evidence. (I also want to see if he's more prone to sheeping as town or scum.)

I have mentioned Guardian's survivor mentality almost everytime I have attacked him. I would say it would be closer to Tony following me than me following Tony.

Occult was a Day 1 lynch. That's different. Also, to say Guardian has been begging people not to lynch him is a gross overstatement. On top of that, both providing useful information for the next day and doing everything you can to avoid getting lynched are valid pro-town tactics.

When did doing everything to avoid being lynched become a protown tactic? I've always felt the opposite. With the Setael Lynch we're also like two days away from Lylo.

I personally do not like the VitR defense of Guardian.