'The Lost Boys' Mafia (Cry Little Sister, it's OVER!)

[Dasquian]

Right, I have read the whole thread. I didn't do it in massive detail, and was more focussed on Day 1 than Day 2, but I've gotten a decent handle on what's happened so far.

First things first - there is

nothing

to support the theory that there are any vampires in this game beyond the theme. There is nothing to support the theory that if there

are

vampires in this game, they would be anti-town beyond the theme. We have every reason to think that anti-town vampires

might

be in this game, but no indication yet that they actually are. Something to remember.

I'm not really sure how to structure the rest of my thoughts, so I'll just go chronologically:

sudo_nym leapt straight out as being super-scummy. He has done all game, his posts just reek of scum.

Vote sudo_nym

.

I thought The Fonz got a raw deal on Day 1 - I too first considered TCS might really be claiming day-cop (but probably wasn't), but he took a lot of flak for being open-minded about that. There seemed to be a distinct point after post 175ish when Pooky, Yos2 and MOS all swooped on him in quick succession. Though he did lose his cool and invited votes for that.

Arafax is almost certainly town; I thought he was scummy as anything until he claimed vampire-in-movie-but-not-in-game. Either he genuinely has this as a role, or is scum and was told that this was a safe-claim.

I'm don't know why GOW voted The Fonz given his claimed role matched the flavour of mine. It does seem like bad town play to make a knowingly poor lynch, though I guess it did bring a 24-page day 1 to an end, and proved that the nominal head of the vampires could be pro-town so a whole swathe of role names aren't instantly scummy, which is of some value to the town.

Day 2, I haven't really formed too many solid opinions; trying to get a read on 17 players all at once is somewhat tricky. I've already put my vote down on sudo_nym but my general thoughts are:

Sudo_Nym - keeps fishing for claims, generally sounding scummy by posting what appear to be the setups for clumsy gambits.
Arafax - scummy vibes, but not the right play atm til more information comes to light.
HackerHuck - seems pretty townish to me
Mastermind of Sin - no read
-TinVision- - seemed townie to me until he laid into GodOfWine, but probably is townie
AniX - seems townie, largely due to his immediate support of Arafax
PookyTheMagicalBear - quiet, no read
Albert B. Rampage/scmp/dybeck - flitty as Albert, very very keen to follow, no read on scmp, need to reread on dybeck. I had him down as a potential scum as Albert, but less so as dybeck.
Mariyta - very quiet early on, and seems to be very flippant and terse. Potentially scummy?
Yosarian2 - for some reason, I get scummy vibes from Yos. He seemed very vehement in getting The Fonz lynched on Day 1, and just seemed to fit the "ballsy mafioso" stereotype.
Ectomancer - seeded the idea of a cult in post 224, which caught my eye. No real read atm.
The Central Scrutinizer - seems all-over-the-place. Probably townie, but quite bolshy with it.
Crub - seems townie.
Battle Mage - seems townie, and for a large part, I agreed with everything he's said. I'm aware there's a case against him atm, but I need to read it more thoroughly (and sans headache) to take a stand on it - I do think it would be odd for all vampires-in-movie-not-game roles to be pro-town, so it wouldn't surprise me that a bad guy might be nestling amongst them.
Sir.Laggalot - a bit scummy, maybe? Need a reread.
VitaminR - Again, no real read, leaning towards scummy.
Amb/cicero - Amb seemed very very scummy, probably my second choice vote after sudo_nym.

I really need to reread Day 2 again - I lost focus towards the end of Day 1 and was practically skim-reading towards the end of Day 2, but it seems to me that a sudo_nym or Amb bandwagon is the best play for the town today.

[Mariyta]

First things first - there is

nothing

to support the theory that there are any vampires in this game beyond the theme. There is nothing to support the theory that if there

are

vampires in this game, they would be anti-town beyond the theme. We have every reason to think that anti-town vampires

might

be in this game, but no indication yet that they actually are. Something to remember.

I don't understand this part, I don't think... It seems to me like you're saying there are no vampires in the game, but you yourself are one. I think I might get what you're trying to say, but I'd rather not infer. Could you please clarify for me?

Mariyta - very quiet early on, and seems to be very flippant and terse. Potentially scummy?

I tend to get cranky when people continually vote me for "lurking" with nothing else to go on. It annoys the crap outta me when people act like there's nothing in life but this site. It's ridiculous to think everyone can participate non-stop all the time.

Amb/cicero - Amb seemed very very scummy, probably my second choice vote after sudo_nym.

I actually agree with this. When I was going back through to do my dybeck post, I realized I never stopped thinking Amb might possibly be scum; I just got sidetracked by someone more scummy. He seems to be sliding under the radar and deserves another look for sure.

[Dasquian]

I don't understand this part, I don't think... It seems to me like you're saying there are no vampires in the game, but you yourself are one. I think I might get what you're trying to say, but I'd rather not infer. Could you please clarify for me?

I'm not claiming to be a vampire, but Marko from the film was one (I think, it's been ages since I saw it). My role PM reflects this, as did everyone else's with similar claims. So far we've seen no vampires, even the characters we'd really expect to be vampires, and nothing vampire-related.

[Mariyta]

I don't understand this part, I don't think... It seems to me like you're saying there are no vampires in the game, but you yourself are one. I think I might get what you're trying to say, but I'd rather not infer. Could you please clarify for me?

I'm not claiming to be a vampire, but Marko from the film was one (I think, it's been ages since I saw it). My role PM reflects this, as did everyone else's with similar claims. So far we've seen no vampires, even the characters we'd really expect to be vampires, and nothing vampire-related.

I guess I misinterpretted what people meant when they said "vampire in movie but not in game." I assumed it meant they were a vampire, but not evil. What you said does make some sense, though I don't quite get how it can be in the theme at all to simply use the names and change everything else so drastically.

[cicero]

Amb/cicero - Amb seemed very very scummy, probably my second choice vote after sudo_nym.

I actually agree with this. When I was going back through to do my dybeck post, I realized I never stopped thinking Amb might possibly be scum; I just got sidetracked by someone more scummy. He seems to be sliding under the radar and deserves another look for sure.

Heh. So do I actually. Well... sort of. I don't think I personally look scummy based on what I posted. More clueless. But I'm doing in this game what I'm giving people crap for doing in Mini 499. Active lurking. Not on purpose though. I replaced into two 30+ page games at the same time and haven't fully digested this one yet which has gimpified my play greatly. Apologies to the town. I have some time right now, since Mafia 63 just went into night. I'll do some reading. (I also rented the Lost Boys DVD to refresh my memory). May post more thoughts. Otherwise will have to wait until after the weekend. But suffice it to say, I'm here and I'm not actively lurking on purpose. I hate that and I think it looks stinky. I can't really comment on why Amb looked scummy yet. Haven't digested his input.

/rolls up sleeves and gets reading.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Woot, I was reading a great book all of yesterday so i had to catchup. Welcome Dasquian, (Yay, now i don't have to go back and reread why i had GoW's vote).

I am not liking BM's claim, Although i do believe that Star would be a role, the Mason thing is kinda weird. Having to find their partner seems kinda off to me.

So yea,

Vote BM

FoS: Sir.Laggalot

Have you actually watched the movie?

[Battle Mage]

yes i only have 1 buddy. 3 guesses as to which character it is. lol

Oy... you shouldn't have done that.

If there is any adherence to theme at all there is only one character who would be a mason with Star. It's not exactly a big surprise.

Yes, but at this point, with all the revelation over who might be scum and who might not, it would've been easily debatable. He essentially just outted his partner, should a name claim become necessary for any reason.

in which case i think you should be bright enough to realise that encouraging a name-claim is a poor plan.

[Mariyta]

yes i only have 1 buddy. 3 guesses as to which character it is. lol

Oy... you shouldn't have done that.

If there is any adherence to theme at all there is only one character who would be a mason with Star. It's not exactly a big surprise.

Yes, but at this point, with all the revelation over who might be scum and who might not, it would've been easily debatable. He essentially just outted his partner, should a name claim become necessary for any reason.

in which case i think you should be bright enough to realise that encouraging a name-claim is a poor plan.

Um, where did you get the idea that I'm encouraging a name claim? That would just be dumb.

[Battle Mage]

yes i only have 1 buddy. 3 guesses as to which character it is. lol

Oy... you shouldn't have done that.

If there is any adherence to theme at all there is only one character who would be a mason with Star. It's not exactly a big surprise.

Yes, but at this point, with all the revelation over who might be scum and who might not, it would've been easily debatable. He essentially just outted his partner, should a name claim become necessary for any reason.

in which case i think you should be bright enough to realise that encouraging a name-claim is a poor plan.

Um, where did you get the idea that I'm encouraging a name claim? That would just be dumb.

good. as long as every protown player realises this, there is no problem.

[Mr. Flay]

Sixteenth Vote Count of Day Two:

GodOfWine

Dasquian - 5 (-TinVision-, Sudo_Nym, HackerHuck, Yosarian2, cicero)

Sudo_Nym - 4 (Crub, Mastermind of Sin, VitaminR, GodOfWine[/s] Dasquian)
Battle Mage - 2 (PookyTheMagicalBear, Sir.Laggalot)
Ectomancer - 2 (The Central Scrutinizer, Battle Mage)
HackerHuck - 1 (dybeck)
dybeck - 1 (Mariyta)

Not voting - 3 (AniX, Ectomancer, Arafax)

With eighteen present, ten votes will lynch.

[-TinVision-]

I find myself second-guessing the whole GodofWine affair now, but that pretty much always happens to me regardless of whether the person is innocent or not. I guess requesting replacement is itself enough to keep my vote where it is for the moment.

I've at different times thought both Ectomancer and dybeck were scummy, but nothing worth jumping off a decent wagon for.

@TCS: You seem to have a lot of suspicions that shift like the tides. You've been very vocally suspicious of all these people today: Ectomancer, GodOfWine, MoS, Mariyta, Sudo_Nym. Earlier today, you mentioned your main reason to not be on the GodOfWine wagon is that you find most of the people on it scummy. Guess what, one of the wagons you advocate (Sudo_Nym) is half composed of people you say are scummy. Inconsistent?

[cicero]

yes i only have 1 buddy. 3 guesses as to which character it is. lol

Oy... you shouldn't have done that.

If there is any adherence to theme at all there is only one character who would be a mason with Star. It's not exactly a big surprise.

Yes, but at this point, with all the revelation over who might be scum and who might not, it would've been easily debatable. He essentially just outted his partner, should a name claim become necessary for any reason.

Oh yeah? Who did he out his mason partner as - Laddy or Michael. Seems they are both perfectly reasonable choices to me.

[Dasquian]

It seems to me that GOW has votes for two main reasons: for hammering The Fonz, and for asking to be replaced. If there are any other sticking points, please point them out and I'll try to address them too.

For hammering Fonzie... I already touched on this, but I think there are a plethora of reasons why GOW might have done this as pro-town, including:

1) Lynching someone who, on their own merits, was a passable Day 1 lynch (on reading the thread I had the hindsight of knowing he was a townie who was getting cornered by a misguided town, but he was also very shouty and got locked into biting back at TCS rather than defending himself convincingly).
2) Lynching a role which had more chance than anyone other than Max of being an anti-town vampire. A number of people were saying "David has got to die" - where are they now? This is of course mitigated by Arafax's claim and his/my/our own role of Marko, but the claim having come

after

Arafax's claim and AniX's implication, it's entirely possible Fonz

was

attempting to jump in that crowd, as many people said. This made him a good Day 1 lynch at the time.
3) Adding information to a debate that had none. A lot of Day 1 was dominated by discussion on what this "vampire in the movie but not the game" malarkey meant, but with no proven innocents on the table, no deaths, no nothing, the discussion was going round in circles a lot. At some point you just have to throw the chips in, take a chance and build on the success or failure that follows. Day 1 in an 18 player game isn't exactly LyLo.
4) Just ending the bleedin' day Similar to point (3), Day 1 went on for 23 pages and wasn't going anywhere fast... Fonz was at L-1 and it didn't look like anyone else was going to get lynched. As GOW said at the time, somebody

does

have to hammer.

There were nine other people on that bandwagon (including Arafax who also has a similar role!) - all GOW did was hammer, and although he knew Fonz could well have been innocent by similarity to his own role, it's hardly confirmed innocence given a couple of other people had already shown that that mechanic exists.

As for getting replaced when he did, this is just pure speculation - yes, maybe he was "feeling the pressure" and bowed out, but if he did, he did it as a pro-town player. For all anyone knows (and I don't have the inside skinny either), he got super busy at work/school, realised he had too many games on his hands, or something. It could be anything, but I do find comments like:

Also, I'm getting even more red flags of GoW (now Dasquin). Seems like a strange time to quit- couldn't handle the pressure, perhaps?

to scream of scummy opportunism.

[VitaminR]

Woot, I was reading a great book all of yesterday so i had to catchup. Welcome Dasquian, (Yay, now i don't have to go back and reread why i had GoW's vote).

I am not liking BM's claim, Although i do believe that Star would be a role, the Mason thing is kinda weird. Having to find their partner seems kinda off to me.

So yea,

Vote BM

Don't like this at all. Sir.Lag, BM has claimed to have a mason partner who can confirm him. Scum doesn't do this, it's way too risky.

Sort of like Dasquian so far. He makes some good points.

[Mastermind of Sin]

yes i only have 1 buddy. 3 guesses as to which character it is. lol

Oy... you shouldn't have done that.

If there is any adherence to theme at all there is only one character who would be a mason with Star. It's not exactly a big surprise.

Yes, but at this point, with all the revelation over who might be scum and who might not, it would've been easily debatable. He essentially just outted his partner, should a name claim become necessary for any reason.

Oh yeah? Who did he out his mason partner as - Laddy or Michael. Seems they are both perfectly reasonable choices to me.

It should be obvious which one fits as a mason partner.

[Battle Mage]

Woot, I was reading a great book all of yesterday so i had to catchup. Welcome Dasquian, (Yay, now i don't have to go back and reread why i had GoW's vote).

I am not liking BM's claim, Although i do believe that Star would be a role, the Mason thing is kinda weird. Having to find their partner seems kinda off to me.

So yea,

Vote BM

Don't like this at all. Sir.Lag, BM has claimed to have a mason partner who can confirm him. Scum doesn't do this, it's way too risky.

Sort of like Dasquian so far. He makes some good points.

Much as it is nice that you have so much faith in me, this post seems a little off. I mean, scum can claim mason, and as my mason buddy hasnt come forward to vouch for me, it is fairly acceptable for some people to doubt my claim. You seem to have significant confidence in me telling the truth, yet i havent really confirmed myself-just claimed something which adequately explains what might appear as strange behaviour.

BM

[Ectomancer]

Woot, I was reading a great book all of yesterday so i had to catchup. Welcome Dasquian, (Yay, now i don't have to go back and reread why i had GoW's vote).

I am not liking BM's claim, Although i do believe that Star would be a role, the Mason thing is kinda weird. Having to find their partner seems kinda off to me.

So yea,

Vote BM

Don't like this at all. Sir.Lag, BM has claimed to have a mason partner who can confirm him. Scum doesn't do this, it's way too risky.

Sort of like Dasquian so far. He makes some good points.

Much as it is nice that you have so much faith in me, this post seems a little off. I mean, scum can claim mason, and as my mason buddy hasnt come forward to vouch for me, it is fairly acceptable for some people to doubt my claim. You seem to have significant confidence in me telling the truth, yet i havent really confirmed myself-just claimed something which adequately explains what might appear as strange behaviour.

BM

Nice summary.

Does your role PM place any doubt on your mason partners alignment?

[Battle Mage]

i dont think so, no. I cant really see me having an anti-town mason partner, who i have to find before i can talk to her. rofl.

[Yosarian2]

I am not liking BM's claim, Although i do believe that Star would be a role, the Mason thing is kinda weird. Having to find their partner seems kinda off to me.

So yea,

Vote BM

Searching masons, a mason that has to find his partner or partners, are a fairly common role, Laggalot. I don't really see anything wierd about that.

[Mastermind of Sin]

i dont think so, no. I cant really see me having an anti-town mason partner, who i have to find before i can talk to her. rofl.

"her"?

o.O

[Ectomancer]

i dont think so, no. I cant really see me having an anti-town mason partner, who i have to find before i can talk to her. rofl.

"her"?

o.O

Some of are women in real life sweetheart. I don't bandy my gender about, but some of do know what the skinny is in RL.

[Battle Mage]

i dont think so, no. I cant really see me having an anti-town mason partner, who i have to find before i can talk to her. rofl.

"her"?

o.O

Some of are women in real life sweetheart. I don't bandy my gender about, but some of do know what the skinny is in RL.

QFT. plus i am well known as someone who gets confused with genders over the internet.

[Mastermind of Sin]

i dont think so, no. I cant really see me having an anti-town mason partner, who i have to find before i can talk to her. rofl.

"her"?

o.O

Some of are women in real life sweetheart. I don't bandy my gender about, but some of do know what the skinny is in RL.

That's not what I'm talking about. First off, we don't know who BM's partner is, so if they are female, BM just gave something away. Secondly, I wasn't thinking that he was referring to the gender of the player. There is only one other female character I could think of, and I can assure you she wouldn't be a masonry with Star. Hence my confusion.

[Battle Mage]

i dont think so, no. I cant really see me having an anti-town mason partner, who i have to find before i can talk to her. rofl.

"her"?

o.O

Some of are women in real life sweetheart. I don't bandy my gender about, but some of do know what the skinny is in RL.

That's not what I'm talking about. First off, we don't know who BM's partner is, so if they are female, BM just gave something away. Secondly, I wasn't thinking that he was referring to the gender of the player. There is only one other female character I could think of, and I can assure you she wouldn't be a masonry with Star. Hence my confusion.

ok, first off, if you really thought i had let slip the gender of my mason buddy, you would be pretty damn stupid to reveal it to the entire mafia. Secondly, i take strong aversion to rolefishing at this point-when i have already given away far more than i feel comfortable with.

BM

[Mariyta]

Regardless of whether he was talking about role gender or real gender, we now have entirely too much information on his partner. I can imagine 'her' sitting at her computer, reading as he keeps babbling on, wanting to beat the living daylight out of him... Can we please drop the mason matter before he ends up giving us everything and getting them both killed?