Mafia 70: Traditional - Game over!

[Niv]

even i am now starting to think that it's a misunderstanding. i think now that hte best place to look is Zone.

Unvote, Vote Zone

.

wrong wrong wrong wrong WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG

Why, you have not a protown move this game. and unless you are a jester. (good mods don't put these in a fourm gmae as far as i am concerned)

lol at patrick.

Also why take the time to post this, when, many are suspicious of you. can you please point out for those of us that don't follow your logic, what exactally it is

When I played with Niv, I got more of a feel that he was an eratic newbie personally.

When have you played with me?

[Erg0]

Flare: you're still arguing the wrong point. Just because Niv did something that a mason shouldn't do, that doesn't make him scum. You could equally argue that he did something that scum shouldn't do (i.e. expose themselves for the sake of killing a single townie), so he must be a mason.

The reality of the situation is that he did something that was not a good play. As such, this is nothing more than a newb-tell.

[Erg0]

Actually, I'll amend that slightly: if Simenon turns out to be scum then what Niv did was a very good play. If Niv turns out to be scum then it's an appalling play. If neither turns out to be scum then it's just a bad play.

[Patrick]

Votecount

Simenon (3) -- Carrotcake, ZONEACE, Yamahako
Celtic18 (1) -- The Venerable Zorg
hmrox (1) -- The Fonz
Lemming1607 (2) -- Beastly, hmrox
ZONEACE (5) -- Simenon, Flare, Lemming1607, KaleiÐoscøpe, Niv
Flare (4) -- Ether, JDodge, Erg0, Mastermind of Sin
Mastermind of Sin (1) -- Toaster Strudel

Not Voting: Sir Tornado, Aimee, Zeppo, Flameaxe, Celtic18
22 alive, 12 to lynch.

[Beastly]

Not feeling the wagon on Flare, he seems to be promoting discussion well, asking questions what not.

The mason issue is really confusing me aswell, can't make heads or tails of it.

[Yamahako]

Unvote

[Lemming1607]

Not feeling the wagon on Flare, he seems to be promoting discussion well, asking questions what not.

The mason issue is really confusing me aswell, can't make heads or tails of it.

at this point it just looks to me like two town masons arguing. I think they both made mistakes, but I haven't seen any "scum slips"

[Simenon]

Unvote
Vote Yamahako

Rereading finds Yama much more scummy than Zone or TS.

[Lemming1607]

oh rly no ur scum cause i said so

[The Venerable Zorg]

Ok, reading through, post 143 by Simenon smells badly of OMGUS. Carrotcake doesn’t seem to want to make a case himself-instead asking others to feed him a viable story. I have no idea whether a scum-mason would get the same pm as a town-mason. Heck, can masons quote their pms in night-talk?
The Fonz’s post 180 seems like a bit of a reach to protect the claimed mason-group. I agree with Flare about quoting pms, although if we could get mod-clarification, that would be better. Post 249 is WIFOM I think.

FoS: ToasterStrudel

But, overall, I still don’t like the way in which Zoneace requested replacement when the going got tough, then stayed when the pressure eased. This combined with his lack of contribution of late, make me think he is probably scum.

Vote: Zoneace

[Aimee]

ZOMG PBPA!

yay! joke bandwagon still around! hooray!

lets see what happens when hmrox gets 6

UNVOTE
VOTE: hmrox

Wooooo awessome

Interesting that you chose hmrox over Flameaxe here. I'm noting this for later.

i have been debating back and forth about tdoing this in my mind, and i think it is in the wowns best intrests to do this.

I am part of a 5 man mason team. and i was told from the begining that there there is at least one scum among us. i think i know who it is.

i sent out a nice high to everyone. and three people responded back with a nice high as well, however,

Simenon,

Responded with this line about how he thought out of 5 of us, at least one of us is probally mafia. and all this warning that was stated in the opening pm. i personally think that i cought Simenon as scum in pregame, for clearly not knowing the townie mason pm. When i called him out on this, he didn't respond. and he had atleast 2 days (i think) to do so. he picked up the pm and then said nothin.

there was reason for my vote on this man. and it is going to stand, as i think this is the best lead we're gonna get in no night 0 day one.

I really do not see why you claimed here. Now the scum know two out of the five masons, and can potentially find the others through voting patterns.

However, I'm also concerned about the way Carrotcake just jumped in bandwagonned Simenon without really thinking that Niv could have been lying (Niv's evidence was incredibly far from conclusive).

i have a feeling that Niv and Lemming are mafia. lemming was starting to gain votes from all his bandwagon hopping, and i think that Niv called out simenon to pull pressure off his scum buddy.

If they are scum then that's great - that move would have been

so

obvious.

I dislike how MoS automatically believes Niv, even when Simenon said that another Mason buddy can confirm what he got.

Interesting that he focuses all the attention on MoS, and doesn't even mention Carrotcake, who did exactly the same thing. Possible scum partnership?

Ckillor's thoughts make sense (regarding Niv and Lemming possibly being mafia) despite it being unliekly and not the best plan for the mafia if it's true. so

FOS Lemming

as well.

I don't understand this. You call it unlikely, yet still FoS Lemming for it? How does that work?

I didn't like his non-committal FoSing of Niv and Simenon - it reeks of just sitting on the fence.

Yet you ignore the reasoning behind it. MoS automatically believes someone whose actions cannot be confirmed, and is suspicious of the ones action who can be confirmed.

Even more interesting. That's twice now you have singled out MoS and not even mentioned Carrotcake (who did the same thing).

Vote ZONEACE

I think this is a good direction.

Your shameless bandwagonning is noted.

I don't understand ZONEACE's posts sometimes. = (

I don't know why ZONEACE claimed there was "zero logic" against him, when there quite clearly was a case.

Ok, so there were a couple more people berating him who might have voted for him but it's still only two votes. So I find it hard to believe that Niv would make a move to protect a scum partner who's only received two votes when twelve are needed to lynch. Contrary to Zoneace I find Ckillor's thoughts to make no sense at all. I don't really know what to make of this, I'm just throwing it out there.

QFT.

First off, i dislike the way in which, an anti-Flameaxe BW formed on Hmrox very quickly.

FoS: Flameaxe

Um, what?

You didn't like the Flameaxe wagon so you FoS

Flameaxe

?

On the other hand, he has claimed vanilla. I'm no expert on Mafia, but i'd been taught that scum don't usually claim vanilla, because often, it doesnt change alot.

Complete WIFOM speculation.

Yeah I agree that Zorg's 133 was quite sucky.

Simenon is a better lynch than ZONEACE.

Explain?

Scum:

ckillor (see above post)
Zoneace (typical scum day 1 meltdown under slight pressure)
Simenon (scum mason)

Choices, choices, so many choices.

I want you to explain why Ckillor's post was scummy.

Also, adding TS to the list of people that blindly believed Niv (which also includes Carrotcake and MoS).

I noted that Carrotcake talked a bit about the Mason issue, yet kept her vote on Simenon. (163) I will have to look at this later.

The advantage of a mason group is that they can talk at night.

Actually I'd say the main advantage is that they can know the innocence of others (although in this case that is less valuable since there are unconfirmed masons.)

Niv - please explain why Simenon's actions are more likely to be done by scum than by town.

I see no reason to lynch ZONEACE, but Niv's point against Simenon seems more than enough reason to vote right now.

Why have you consistently been pro-Niv and anti-Simenon.

Flare:

I think Patrick so good a mod that there is NO scum mason.

How does this even make sense?

Miller mason? I could buy that. Personally, though, I feel like Niv just jumped to conclusions based on a misreading of what Sim said, and that suggesting one or other MUST be scum is a false dichotomy on Zoneace's part.

I agree wholeheartedly with this point.

BUT THE WARNING NOT TO TALK WAS NOT IN THE MASON PM!!.

So it was in the scum PM. I see.

Vote Simenon

.

Tell me - what have you done all game?

Don't you see the problem with a scum mason? He knows who the other masons are AND he can talk with the other scum. What exactly is the point in having masons in that case if the scum know who they are? Would Patrick mod do something like this?

I am leaning towards a SK mason.

I don't see any real value in this speculation.

Note to self: re-read Sir Tornado's posts to see if he is scum hunting.

You called the wagon you were currently sitting on an easy wagon. No doubts. No acknowledgement you were sitting there. No.

Good catch.

even i am now starting to think that it's a misunderstanding. i think now that hte best place to look is Zone.

Why Zoneace?

I've only read through the first 5 pages so far, so that's all I've got for now.

Five pages and that's all you come up with? Oh wait, there's more later...

Get a real bad feeling about Carrotcake and Flare. Don't understand why, just have a bad gut feeling about it.

I actually have bad feelings about them as well.

I'm probably going to have another re-read and hear some reactions before placing a vote.

[The Venerable Zorg]

First off, i dislike the way in which, an anti-Flameaxe BW formed on Hmrox very quickly.

FoS: Flameaxe

Um, what?

You didn't like the Flameaxe wagon so you FoS

Flameaxe

?

On the other hand, he has claimed vanilla. I'm no expert on Mafia, but i'd been taught that scum don't usually claim vanilla, because often, it doesnt change alot.

Complete WIFOM speculation.

Yeah I agree that Zorg's 133 was quite sucky.

[/quote]

No, i meant that when Flameaxe recieved some pressure, a wagon quickly formed on Hmrox. This felt a bit like an attempt to take the pressure off Flameaxe-if the scum were scared that their buddy was going to get lynched.
I realise that my comment about claiming vanilla is WIFOM, but it was simply my opinion at the time.
Could someone please tell me what about my post 133 was so 'sucky'?

[Simenon]

I don't remember advocating my own lynch.

[Sir Tornado]

Don't you see the problem with a scum mason? He knows who the other masons are AND he can talk with the other scum. What exactly is the point in having masons in that case if the scum know who they are? Would Patrick mod do something like this?

I am leaning towards a SK mason.

I don't see any real value in this speculation.

Actually, it does matter. If the mason is a mafia member, the mafia know the entire masonry. If the mason is a SK, then no one outside the masonry knows who the mason are.

[The Fonz]

Flameaxe didn't come under any pressure though. It was a completely random, unreasoned bandwagon.

[ZONEACE]

But, overall, I still don’t like the way in which Zoneace requested replacement when the going got tough, then stayed when the pressure eased. This combined with his lack of contribution of late, make me think he is probably scum.

Vote: Zoneace

hey genius, we've been over this, I DIDN'T REQUEST A REPLACEMENT.

RTFG

[Flameaxe]

First off, i dislike the way in which, an anti-Flameaxe BW formed on Hmrox very quickly.

FoS: Flameaxe

Um, what?

You didn't like the Flameaxe wagon so you FoS

Flameaxe

?

On the other hand, he has claimed vanilla. I'm no expert on Mafia, but i'd been taught that scum don't usually claim vanilla, because often, it doesnt change alot.

Complete WIFOM speculation.

Yeah I agree that Zorg's 133 was quite sucky.

No, i meant that when Flameaxe recieved some pressure, a wagon quickly formed on Hmrox. This felt a bit like an attempt to take the pressure off Flameaxe-if the scum were scared that their buddy was going to get lynched.
I realise that my comment about claiming vanilla is WIFOM, but it was simply my opinion at the time.
Could someone please tell me what about my post 133 was so 'sucky'?[/quote]

What was your reasoning to go after me, and not the people that put Hmrox at 5/6 votes? Random vote wagons REALLY make me feel pressured though, daddy and his friends always tried to bandwagon me at night while I was sleeping. It scarred me forever.

[The Fonz]

That's sigworthy.

[Sir Tornado]

Zoneace, are you ever going to answer my question?

[ZONEACE]

probably not

[Flare]

Yeah I'm not really sure why I've been criticized for calling a wagon I'm on an easy one.

It's a decent case against him, which intrinsically makes it an easy wagon, but if someone is just hopping on the wagon without stating anything, then if Zoneace were to come up town, it would help us immensely tomorrow. Do you deny this?

Aimee, the difference between MoS and Carrotcake, since you didn't seem to quote them at all.

Unvote
Vote: Simenon

The best reason to start a bandwagon so far.

That was post 69

I did not receive any pm from Niv calling me out on anything. In fact, I have received the following pms from Niv:

Him saying hi and acknowledging my existance.
When I told him we shouldn't talk, he confirmed he wasn't told we were trustworthy.
Continues to confirm that the mason team was not told as a whole the mason team was not untrustworthy.

Niv, I have no idea how my suggesting we should talk, because there may be a mafia among one of us (I did not suggest I didn't know we were untrustworthy) leads you to conclude that I did not have the untrustworthy part in the pm.

"One of us is probably mafia" is not "Do you think this mason group is untrustworthy?"

This was post 70

Carrot didn't even seen Sim's defense.

On the other hand

Unvote, Vote: Simenon

Someone is lying, because I severely doubt the pms just didn't arrive.

This was post 87.

The difference is that Carrot could at least be perceived as starting the game, as Simenon had not contested Niv's claims. MoS saw both, made a choice, and seemed to automatically believe Niv.

Slight FoS:Aimee

[Zeppo]

Someone suggested earlier (I think) that Zoneace might be a Jester. I think it's time to start seriously considering this. I can't believe that anyone would play as badly as he does. Especially since he is quite an experienced player.

[Sir Tornado]

probably not

Vote: Zoneace

If you aren't going to play at all, then I am perfectly comfortable lynching you.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Vote: Flare

I agree with the above comments.

Sorry this isn't really the greatest reasoning,

but I DO agree with the people who are also voting him, and

I'm in a really hectic time of my life

.

vote: Mastermind of Sin

Already making excuses for what he probably

knows

will turn out to be a townie lynch.

*points to sig* The situation that prompted that has only gotten worse, not better.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Can we please lynch ZONEACE?