Mini 506: The Siena Syndicate - Game Over!

[ChronX]

EBWOP: When I say Green is more suspicious, I mean than CynicClinic. I see CynicClinic as stuffy but sincerely looking for scum. His logic seems to follow my ideas regarding AVinyl, and his L-1 on Originality is just as much a sore thumb as my hammer that I regard it as the same class...a town tactic.

ChannelDelibird was showing promise, I like his last post where he comments on the 4 vote CC wagon. Where'd he go?

Hadhfang has also disappeared. Likewise tyhess.

Ah, Peers. Has theories based on page 1. Also, i see now that that was where Avinyl was going with his Greenday thought. My bad. I hadn't closely analyzed the apparently absent or the more pro-town people.

And further edit: Greenday probably didn't need a number in the top suspects list since he is dead. i was just making the point that who he random voted is not very material, IMO.

[White]

Of course I called for a claim. We all know how bizarre Orig was acting. I personally feel claims are very helpful. In fact if he hsa claimed rb we could've benefited if he stopped a mafia kill or something. He could tell us who he blocked and we could pressure that person. Claims can be and are very helpful, even on day 1.

You hammered early in the morning (for me) after the -1 was put on Orig after I went to bed. There was no way for me to pull my vote off.

I do like your list though. I'd get mine up but i've got to head to bed soon and have other threads to catch up on.

[tyhess]

I've never liked letting people claiming for a couple of reasons. One (obviously) is that you can lie. 2 is that if you tell the truth and you are a pro town with some powers, your most likely going to be NK. 3- If you do lie then someone else may have to counter claim and it effects the whole claim thing. Never liked it.

[Green Day]

What the heck? I died. Lmao. Good luck Mafia!

[ChannelDelibird]

ChannelDelibird was showing promise, I like his last post where he comments on the 4 vote CC wagon. Where'd he go?

I had a particularly busy weekend (alas, these things can happen), and when I came back, hey presto! You guys had lynched. I certainly hope that today will be a longer day (and will be suspicious of anyone who tries to make it the opposite).

I am just checking in now, as I have to head off to school in a minute, but I will post my belated thoughts on D1 this afternoon, as well as some D2 stuff. Stay tuned.

[Peers]

I think that even if Orig had claimed, he stll would have been hammered. He'd already claimed twice; I don't think we would have believed him. That, or he'd've done it in a way that continued to make him look like a douche, and we'd've dropped him anyway. We know there had to be several town voting for him, I'm more than willing to believe town did the hammer as well (well, for now, prove me wrong).

That's one of the reasons I hate the whole 'jackass townie' meta-role. They tend to get lynched early in the game because they provide so much of a distraction to the town, but it's arguable whether lynching them hurts the town more or less than leaving the JT alive. If everyone could just, y'know, not be a jackass when they play, games would go somewhat easier. Now we're on Day 2, and if Orig had been the type of person you don't want to punch in the face, we might've had some more information to work with.

[Hadhfang]

I'm still here, but don't have much time today, I'll be looking over the thread more when I have time, Which will be saturday morning.

[VampanezeHunter]

Yea I just got back from school but I'm off again! UIll either post late tonight, where I am, or early tomorrow!

[White]

Hey guys, i'm going to be V/LA until Sunday, Monday at the latest.

[clockwork]

1. Clockwork, right in the middle of the wagon, and seriously, a BUS DRIVER?

FoS Clockwork

will probably lead to that being my vote to start today rolling

Okay, how is being in the *middle* more suspicious than being at the end? Mind explaining that?

Plus I said I'd unvote him if he stopped being difficult -- not an offer I seem to remember any of you making. You're the one that actually hammered him, for crying out loud...

Also, what's your problem with me suggesting it could have been a bus driver? How is it any less likely than there being a doctor and a vigilante? I'd say it's more likely if only because it posits the existence of one non-town/mafia role and not two.

You're being very erratic, IMHO.

BTW, ChannelDelibird, did you have a reason for ducking my earlier question?

[Cynic Clinic]

Random observations.

So... where do we put our effort? Cynic Clinic, Avinyl, or somewhere else?

WTF kinda wording is this? "Put our effort" just sounds like you NEED to lynch somebody without risk of worrying if it's a pro-town player or whatever. Also, the second sentence sounds like you're trying to plant seeds in our heads.

Also, ChronX avoids a situation in with White between posts 97-98-and 99 when he calls him out on some faultiness. But I don't think either of them are scum because they BOTH have written some people off as town. And a scum would definitely keep their options open and wait for a case to present itself. But who knows? Both of them could misconstrue my words in this post right now.

I think clockwork's bus driver suggestion could be some sort of subtle claim. I get the feeling bus drivers are kinda rare on this forum. But whatever.

I want to hear form Avinyl because I still have suspicions about him from Day 1.

[Peers]

Random observations.

So... where do we put our effort? Cynic Clinic, Avinyl, or somewhere else?

WTF kinda wording is this? "Put our effort" just sounds like you NEED to lynch somebody without risk of worrying if it's a pro-town player or whatever. Also, the second sentence sounds like you're trying to plant seeds in our heads.

... Um... wow, I'm not sure how to respond to this. The wording is exactly what it is... We do need to lynch someone, and it would be nice if we didn't have to worry about if they were pro-town or not, by somehow having a way to verify they're Mafia. So we all need to put our effort into finding a way to do that.

Or are you saying we don't NEED to lynch anyone? Reading what you wrote a certain way could lead one to believe that's what you're saying. Or am I putting seeds in people's heads again?

[Xdaamno]

Page 5 Votecount

Not Voting: 10

(Hadhfang, clockwork, ChannelDelibird, Cynic Clinic, Avinyl, tyhess, VampanezeHunter, Peers, White, ChronX)

Player List: Hadhfang, clockwork, ChannelDelibird, Cynic Clinic, Avinyl, tyhess, VampanezeHunter, Peers, White, ChronX.

Six (6) to lynch.

[VampanezeHunter]

Ok reading through now! Ill get back to you as soon as I can!

[Hadhfang]

Hmm, I'm thinking that Cynic Clinic might be scum, Greenday could have been distancing with his early vote which he then changed in order to jump on the bandwagon, And post 110 is a bit scummy IMO.

FoS:Cynic Clinic

[ChannelDelibird]

Sorry for the delay, have had a busy weekend, with both my birthday and a friend's to celebrate.

BTW, ChannelDelibird, did you have a reason for ducking my earlier question?

I didn't deliberately duck your question. As I said in my last post, I didn't actually have time to respond to any material at the time, because I was just letting you guys know I was here at the start of the day (it was 8 AM and I had to go to school).

To answer it, I left my vote on White for lack of a more suitable place to put it. I'm firmly of the opinion that leaving a random vote on somebody is a more useful option than removing it without putting it on someone else for a non-random reason.

Now, I've got birthday dinner, so I'll be back in 30-45 mins or so to give some reactions to what's gone on since my last proper post.

[VampanezeHunter]

Whoops ,ost track of time anyway here is my LoS!
1) Peers-Because he seems to be kind of ducking under the radar! Also his post on page 4 said "So...where do we put our efforts?" or something along those lines, anyway he is maybe pushing for another quicklynch?
2) Anvyil-I think he is lurking.
3) ChronX- I'm thinking a bit too town here. He may be trying to look like town who is genuinely sorry.
Here are my thoughts on some people.

White-I'm not really sure about him. He is hard to judge. He seems to be active in changing the subject a bit. But apart from that then he seems quite town.
Clockwork- Seems to be town IMO. Mainly because he seems to be quite good a scumhunting!
VH- IS THE BEST PERSON EVER!

The rest I haven't heard enough of!

[ChannelDelibird]

CDB's Opinion On (Mostly) Everything That Ever Happened, Ever

Disclaimer: The following may not actually contain CDB's opinion on (mostly) everything that ever happened, ever. However, everything below is guaranteed to be the 100% guaranteed real opinion of CDB, although I'm not willing to guarantee that CDB is in fact a real entity who may or may not possess an opinion on anything. So go figure.

D1

OK, so immediately after my last post of consequence, my insight was rendered less relevant by mod error. A quick 3 votes is considerably less suspicious than a quick 4, although it's perhaps still worth looking at, especially as Green Day was one of the players on it, and we know him to have been mafia. So, from this incident I'll place an

IGMEOY: VampanezeHunter and ChronX

.

I thought ChronX's post 41 re: Avinyl and CC was a good one, placing a sensible and well-reasoned vote.

Then there's this from VH:

Unvote
Vote: Avinyl

Reason: He claims ChronX voted without a reason in post 34, when post 34 clearly states his reason for voting. He's either a) not paying attention to posts, which is dangerous for the town, or b) he's paying attention but trying to twist our perceptions, which can't possibly have a benign reason behind it.

Hmmm....This interested me a bit. I agree with all of his points here, but it could be scum trying to get an early target to make their game a whole lot easier.

Strikes me as over-the-top reaction here. At such an early stage of the game, it surely makes more sense to vote for somebody because there are genuine points against them rather than not vote because it could be scum-fuelled (I mean, everything could be scum-fuelled). This just doesn't really sit right with me.

IGMEOY 2: VampanezeHunter

Avinyl's shtick about not wanting people to state that a vote is random is just

weird

. I'm not sure exactly how much can be read into it, but I can see why people were getting suspicious of him (granted, it wasn't just for that reason. I agree with the sentiments regarding his FoS trigger-happiness).

Around page 3 originality became somebody who had to be policy lynched - I'd just have preferred it if the policy lynch was done at the end of a 10 page day 1 than a 3 page one.

The a) point in clockwork's following post is something I find faintly odd:

FoS: originality for either (a) using extremely faulty logic (and trying to cover it up afterwards) or (b) making very counterproductive jokes. (One of these must be true.)

On second thoughts, this probably isn't scummy, just more something that needs to be corrected - basically, you seem to be taking originality's 'logic' way too seriously. You're allowed to call it for what it was (general asshat-ery).

ChronX's hammer IS premature. I guess I understand the reasoning but I just don't like it. It's a very easy mislynch for scum to get away with.

IGMEOY: ChronX

D2

OK, so re: the night deaths, I think it's best to assume now that we have 3 Mafia and 1 SK running around - such would be the most likely case from the evidence we have. Considering other options should only be done if we get any strong evidence for other weird roles.

VH seems to make a really big deal out of that. I'll put it down to newbishness though, as in his position I probably wouldn't guess immediately that there was likely an SK.

Peers' post 93 dings the scumdar.

Avinyl, what do you think is more likely... the person who Green Day random-voted for killed him... or the person who actually voted for Green Day killed him? (That would be you, BTW.)

[/snip]

So... where do we put our effort? Cynic Clinic, Avinyl, or somewhere else?

Looks to me like scum trying to narrow down town's options, and I don't like it at all.

FoS: Peers

White's attack on ChronX's reasoning in post 98 strikes me as way too vicious for what is a clear and understandable explanation - you don't have to agree with it, but as far as I can see it's not damning.

IGMEOY: White

ChronX's suspicion of clockwork for mentioning the possibility of a bus driver is really strange considering he doesn't call out VH on the frankly less likely possibility of a kill reflector.

Finally, CC - if clockwork's bus driver mention

was

a subtle claim, way to throw a hint to the mafia.

Now that I've gone over everything I felt was necessary, here's how my suspicions stand at the moment:

People worth looking at more closely right now:

Peers
ChronX
White
VH

I'll therefore go with a

Vote: Peers

, although I could go to either of those four at the moment.

[White]

Hahaha. Well, i'm back and yes, I have a tendancy to attack agressively. While out in the woods I reflected on this game and honestly, i'm getting some scummy vibes from Peers. He stayed away from the Orig wagon and laughed as it grew but never really did anything, kinda like laughing as the town lynched what he knew was an innocent.

Vote: Peers

[tyhess]

I actually dont think that peers comment was that scum like. Most likely he is right and it was one of those 2 situations that led to the death of Green Day.

[ChannelDelibird]

I actually dont think that peers comment was that scum like. Most likely he is right and it was one of those 2 situations that led to the death of Green Day.

Incorrect.

You're opening up a huge can of WIFOM here, shown by the following questions that can be asked as a result of that statement: would the SK really kill somebody who they were so obviously connected to? Or would they do it to throw up precisely the WIFOM situation we are now finding ourselves in?

And here's some more, pertinent, WIFOM that comes up: why the bloody hell would somebody voting for Green Day kill them when the fact that they were voting for him indicates that they think they might be able to get him lynched?

There's no more reason for those people to have killed Green Day than anyone else, and certainly not enough for Peers to try and limit the town's options so much.

[White]

Happy birthday CDB.

[clockwork]

Peers' "where do we put our effort" comment was indelicate (as was the "now this is entertainment" post White cited), but I think you guys are overreacting. Noticing a bandwagon is forming--and staying out of it--is not a scum-tell.

White's attack on ChronX's reasoning in post 98 strikes me as way too vicious for what is a clear and understandable explanation - you don't have to agree with it, but as far as I can see it's not damning. IGMEOY: White

Actually, I think White's response was appropriate. ChronX is going after people for bandwagoning against originality, all the while acting as though

his

vote (the hammer) is beyond reproach. White knew that was bogus and said so.

The so-called attack was considerably more chivalrous than the inflammatory remarks that induced it. To wit:

YOU started the bandwagon on Orig, drove it out of the random stage, and badgered the shit out of him throughout. Should we revisit your reasons and make you justify each utterance you made (17 posts on Day 1, the majority hammering on townie Orig)?

Anyway, thanks for the detailed post (#117), ChannelDelibird. This game needs more of that. Also, happy birthday.

[tyhess]

Well the SK (assuming there is one) could be thinking along the same lines and have decided to kill Green Day becuase noone would think that he would kill him right after he was voted for/voted for Green Day.....

[White]

Tyhess, that's called WIFOM. Because it tries to get inside the mind of an alignment and you can't do that. Just go read the Wiki page about it.