Mini 495 - Mafia on a Plane! GAME OVER! =)

[AlyG]

Elias, I just did a quick check on your posting activity and you have

17

posts today on your other thread encompassing hours of the day and coming in at about 20-30 minute intrevals. I'm not buying this "I'm so busy" routine anymore. If you're actively lurking stop it. If you truly don't care about this game, crap or get off the pot.

Good thing you noticed that Shaft.ed, like i said i want some Elias input.

[Streeflo]

Elias, I just did a quick check on your posting activity and you have

17

posts today on your other thread encompassing hours of the day and coming in at about 20-30 minute intrevals. I'm not buying this "I'm so busy" routine anymore. If you're actively lurking stop it. If you truly don't care about this game, crap or get off the pot.

To be fair, Elias's other game has a set game deadline at Oct. 1st. If town doesn't win by that time, the town auto-lose. I will give him leniency until that time since this game has no current deadline.
That is of course, unless I am asked by a majority of players for a replacement.

[Streeflo]

Day 2, Votecount #19!

Oman (2) - Gemelli, shaft.ed
dybeck (1) - vollkan
originality (1) - dybeck
Lucienne (1) - originality

Not voting: Everyone else

With

9

alive it takes

5

to lynch!

[shaft.ed]

Elias, I just did a quick check on your posting activity and you have

17

posts today on your other thread encompassing hours of the day and coming in at about 20-30 minute intrevals. I'm not buying this "I'm so busy" routine anymore. If you're actively lurking stop it. If you truly don't care about this game, crap or get off the pot.

To be fair, Elias's other game has a set game deadline at Oct. 1st. If town doesn't win by that time, the town auto-lose. I will give him leniency until that time since this game has no current deadline.
That is of course, unless I am asked by a majority of players for a replacement.

Thanks for the input Streeflo. I'll also calm down until after the first.

[originality]

Dybeck, what do you think about lucienne?

[vollkan]

Dude I'm all for letting orig live through today, but Doc protection? You've got to be kidding me. One of the main reasons I think it's worth keeping him alive is because even if he's scum, he's very likely to cause crossfire.

FoS vollkan

I said I was not convinced and I needed to think. I didn't mean that I considered Orig an equal option to AlyG at all. I just meant that I was going to look at both options, rather than immediately ruling it out without doing a proper analysis. I can't think of any reason to protect Orig, after all I've been pushing hard on not lynching Orig for the crossfire thing as well.

How does this work for everyone?

Yes; it is a development on what I initially proposed. Good idea.
My list:
1. No Kill
2. Dybeck
3. Oman
4. Elias (though well below the others).

1) No Kill
2) dybeck
3) Elias
4) AlyG

Wha..!?! You want the confirmed tracker NKed.

Increase HoS on Oman

I will follow this up at the bottom.

It's because they've backed up originality even though failing to lynch him will most likely cause us to lose.

They're leading the town down the doomed path of not lynching originality, and I believe this is because they are his scummates.

They've told us they believe that originality goes out killing obviously protown players of an evening and yet could still be a protown player. For this, I believe that they are mafia. It would certainly be interesting to see whether originality would bump off his scummates to stay alive.

Scream all you want that shaft.ed and I are leading the town to destruction; the maths speak otherwise. You are just being obtuse here by ignoring the reality just to score an Orig lynch.

Everything you are saying there has been refuted at some point, and you must know that.

First, my opinion on vollkan is slightly less certain than it was last night. I admire the length and depth of his posts, but some of the basic premises underlying the arguments seem to shift around a bit without comment. Some rushed examples: post 439, CC's later posts were "pure brilliance" vs. post 638, commenting that CC wasn't really all that active. Post 598, I seem "very pro-town" vs. post 638, I am "55% scummy."

Good observations. I will explain this.
CC's later posts were good efforts at scum-hunting, even if the claims suggest otherwise. My remarks were confined exclusively to her later posts however, because I knew that she was pretty much a lurker besides. In fact, in 439 I actually said

Carrot was about more helpful than everybody else. Fine, he lurked early, but his later stuff was pure brilliance. I don't buy this at all.

I admit that Carrot's later posts probably contorted my opinion of her so that I thought more of her than I otherwise should have. That became clearer to me as things progressed.

As for the difference regarding my opinion of you, Gemelli. It stemmed from my changed views regarding Orig and the situation with Dybeck and from me remembering to consider your predecessor's play. When I said I thought you were very pro-town, I was reading you in isolation.

This you say after 5 posts which are saying this same exact thing. She never really contributes anything, she just reeinforces what other people have been saying.

Good point.

------------------
First, let me drag up this:

My view is as follows.
Town
shaft.ed -- 80% sure
AlyG -- claimed
Orig -- claimed
Vollkan

Unreadable
Elias_the_thief
Lucienne
Gemelli (As you say, though, slightly scummy. I think about 55% scummy)

Scummy
Oman -- 60%
dybeck --65%

Even if both Oman and dybeck are scum, there is one mafia among Gem, Elias and Lucienne. That worries me because thus far they are all fairly unreadable.

Elias is lurking despite posting elsewhere.
Lucienne fails to deliver and just restates.

Some observations:
Dybeck has myself and shaft.ed above Oman on his list. Dybeck is isolated in viewing shaft.ed and myself as scummy. Now, Oman has Dybeck at 2 on his list. Gemelli has Oman -2 and Dybeck - 3.

The fact that dybeck wants shaft.ed (who consider pro-town) and myself (who I know to be pro-town) killed above Oman rings alarm bells. In the same way that Oman placing AlyG on his list does also.

Oman placing dybeck at 2 is possibly distancing from him. Insofar as he knows dybeck is going to be high on everyone else's lists, so placing dybeck elsewhere will raise questions should dybeck come up scum. This is a thought for later however.

I think that if either of Oman or dybeck comes up scum, it draws a lot of suspicion onto the survivor.

Personally, I still favour dybeck. That latest exchange between us and the fact that he is now pushing for the killing of shaft.ed and myself purely because we disagree with his ridiculous arguments makes me very confident about this.

At deadline, I would change to Oman if it came down to it, but I would prefer a dybeck lynch today.

[AlyG]

Good post, i'm glad you agree with me that it is weird how Oman considred me to be NK'ed and how Dybeck is recommending you and shaft.ed over Oman. I'm still not sure who to vote for though...
I'm sort of leaing towards dybeck because of his recent arguments (Which are ridiculous) against Vollkan. He really seems to be getting himself into a hole. Same goes for Elias, the more he lurks the bigger his hole gets.

[Oman]

Also, Oman, just because i attacked you i'm then recomended to be NK'ed by you. Even though i'm confirmed as your tracker. A bit bitter perhaps?

I was suspicious of you pre-your attack on me. And you're not confirmed, stop pretending you are. Also, you're number 4 on my list.

Listing a confirmed tracker for NK is just ludicrous.

NOT CONFIRMED

Orig's post on Luc is correct.

What you want the confirmed tracker NKed.

I'm sick of this

More for Orig's input on Luci rather than this outburst about my actions

4) AlyG is replaced by Lucienne.

This is simply because 4) was AlyG, not because it was AlyG.

[AlyG]

Also, Oman, just because i attacked you i'm then recomended to be NK'ed by you. Even though i'm confirmed as your tracker. A bit bitter perhaps?

I was suspicious of you pre-your attack on me. And you're not confirmed, stop pretending you are. Also, you're number 4 on my list.

4) AlyG is replaced by Lucienne.

This is simply because 4) was AlyG, not because it was AlyG.[/quote]

[AlyG]

Also, Oman, just because i attacked you i'm then recomended to be NK'ed by you. Even though i'm confirmed as your tracker. A bit bitter perhaps?

I was suspicious of you pre-your attack on me. And you're not confirmed, stop pretending you are. Also, you're number 4 on my list.

Tell me what was suspicious about my pre-attack on you. And also, even though i'm 4) on your list i'm still recommended as 1 of the top 3 targets to be NK'ed by you. You can't deny that.

4) AlyG is replaced by Lucienne.

This is simply because 4) was AlyG, not because it was AlyG.

I don't understand that last line can you please rephrase it. All i can understand is that i've been replaced as 4) by lucienne i believe. Is it because you have come under fire for it?

[AlyG]

Also, Oman, just because i attacked you i'm then recomended to be NK'ed by you. Even though i'm confirmed as your tracker. A bit bitter perhaps?

I was suspicious of you pre-your attack on me. And you're not confirmed, stop pretending you are. Also, you're number 4 on my list.

Tell me what was suspicious about my pre-attack on you. And also, even though i'm 4) on your list i'm still recommended as 1 of the top 3 targets to be NK'ed by you. You can't deny that.

4) AlyG is replaced by Lucienne.

This is simply because 4) was AlyG, not because it was AlyG.

I don't understand that last line can you please rephrase it. All i can understand is that i've been replaced as 4) by lucienne i believe. Is it because you have come under fire for it?

[AlyG]

Post 708# was a mistake i accidentally pressed send lol.

[vollkan]

Post 708# was a mistake i accidentally pressed send lol.

Figured.

4) AlyG is replaced by Lucienne.

This is simply because 4) was AlyG, not because it was AlyG.

Despite how dreadfully he worded this; I think Oman is trying to argue that the fact that he has now replaced AlyG with Lucienne is

entirely independent

of the fact that he has been called out for having AlyG on his list.

I believe the most appropriate term is "back-pedalling".

[Oman]

Is it because you have come under fire for it?

No, my point was:

AlyG was 4)

Lucienne should be 4)

Thus Lucienne replaces AlyG. As vollkan said, entirely independant of the fact that AlyG's spot on my list got me attacked.

Its not back pedalling its simple fact.

[vollkan]

AlyG was 4)

Lucienne should be 4)

Thus Lucienne replaces AlyG. As vollkan said, entirely independant of the fact that AlyG's spot on my list got me attacked.

Its not back pedalling its simple fact.

I did not say it was entirely independant, I said you were trying to argue it was inpendent.

If not back-pedalling, then what?

[Oman]

A change of opinion, based on a good post by orig and the subsequent reread.

[vollkan]

A change of opinion, based on a good post by orig and the subsequent reread.

Ah okay.

Would you still support the NKing of AlyG as an option, though? As in, if we all had AlyG at 1, would you be opposed?

[Oman]

Yes!

AlyG is by far not #1 material, and if dybeck killed her with me having him at 4 and you guys leaving him off, I'd be into him (thats not a town play).

No Kill should be #1 as far as I see.

#2 should be dybeck, or if you are convinced he's innocent either Elias or lucienne, I'm really not sure wether cronic lurking or chronic lurking +1 scumtell in an effort to "help" the town (might not be helping ) is worse.

[vollkan]

Yes!

Ignore my last post then, that was a trap of the Mini 486 kind. (Where I day-vigged mafiaOman on D1 by asking him a trap question).

A change of opinion, based on a good post by orig and the subsequent reread.

What about Lucienne's post persuaded you, and what did you uncover on your reread?

AlyG is by far not #1 material, and if

dybeck killed her

with me having him at 4 and you guys leaving him off, I'd be into him (thats not a town play).

*blink* Wha?! How does Dybeck go about killing her?

For your sake, you better be able to explain this one.

[AlyG]

AlyG is by far not #1 material, and if

dybeck killed her

with me having him at 4 and you guys leaving him off, I'd be into him (thats not a town play).

*blink* Wha?! How does Dybeck go about killing her?

For your sake, you better be able to explain this one.

I never noticed that! What is that supposed to mean?

[Oman]

Sorry that was a mistake, switch dybeck for orig. We're contextually talking about orig anyway.

[vollkan]

Sorry that was a mistake, switch dybeck for orig. We're contextually talking about orig anyway.

Still a very interesting slip for if either of you shows up as mafia.

Anyway, subbing Orig back in to the statement:

AlyG is by far not #1 material, and if

Orig

killed her with me having him at 4 and you guys leaving him off, I'd be into him (thats not a town play).

This is a strange statement indeed because it is firmly rooted in the (potentially rather telling) assumption that AlyG is pro-town. Given that you recently had AlyG as a NK candidate, this is a remarkable change of heart Oman.

Something else:

#2 should be dybeck,

or if you are convinced he's innocent

either Elias or lucienne, I'm really not sure wether cronic lurking or chronic lurking +1 scumtell in an effort to "help" the town (might not be helping)

** Note, #1 is No Kill in the above quote by Oman. #2 is his most-preferred actual NK candidate.

Nobody has said they are convinced dybeck is innocent, almost the opposite really. I cannot see why on earth you would raise this sort of notion at all. The only effect of it is to subtly promote the NKing of Lucienne or Elias without actually taking dybeck out of the #2 slot, which would be obvious distancing from you.

[Oman]

Because I'm not goign to tell people to put dybeck as #2 if they think he's town. Its their choice.

And AlyG may be scummy, but I put him at #4, I still firmly believe that he is not #1. You're twisting this, saying that I am denying an AlyG kill by not puting him #1, but supporting it by putting him #4. The simple fact is, if he's on my list, I want him there (Though he's not).

[vollkan]

Because I'm not goign to tell people to put dybeck as #2 if they think he's town. Its their choice.

Er, Oman this is

your

list we are talking about. Nobody is "putting" dybeck at #2 except you. This is you trying to mold your list around what other people think to the effect of encouraging the NK of Elias or Lucienne.

And, that's all very well, but nobody said dybeck was town so I don't see the logic that prompted this.

Lets look again at what you said:

#2 should be dybeck, or if you are convinced he's innocent either Elias or lucienne, I'm really not sure wether cronic lurking or chronic lurking +1 scumtell in an effort to "help" the town (might not be helping)

dybeck is #2 on your list regardless of what anyone else thinks. It is YOUR list. What you are saying here is: "If you don't want to NK dybeck, then you should replace him in my preferences with Elias or Lucienne"
The effect of this is to sneakily bump up Elias and Lucienne as NK preferences.

[Oman]

Actually the context of this discussion was other people's lists:

As in, if

we all had AlyG at 1

, would you be opposed?

#2 should be dybeck, or

if you are convinced

he's innocent either Elias or lucienne, I'm really not sure wether cronic lurking or chronic lurking +1 scumtell in an effort to "help" the town (might not be helping ) is worse.

Just a few short ones to highlight what I mean.