Mini 474 - Bergamo Bump-Off (Game Over!)

[SeraphicMirth]

Hi all. I haven't read at all yet but I did want to pop in and let ya know I'm here. I'm going out to dinner shortly but I will post later tonight for sure!

[SeraphicMirth]

Alright..this is long..sorry. I just took out notepad and typed out thoughts as I read.


Muerrto's pointing out that he is using WIFOM but goes ahead and uses it anyway is off to me...why say that and then do it? If it is so "pointless" as you say..then....what is the point? Makes me think that perhaps you said it to cover your butt when people started pointing it out. "oh yeah but I SAID that that was what it was". WIFOM may not be scummy in and of itself. but to preface it with your warning is what makes me squint and say "Hmmmm"

Khel's call to put death_omen to a close-to-lynch vote count is concerning to me. Yeah, put the pressure on and then whatever he says - exaggerate it, get the easily swayed voters and it's done? hmmf.


This isn't indicating scum or not..just a personal opinion that popped up.
I think openly calling for a pressure vote is pretty non-efficient. If the person knows it's just a pressure vote that would most likely be recinded or take their response into heavy consideration and mostly have people unvote, then...why bother? I mean..I think people are much more likely to respond to a pressure vote when it's more "real". If you are concerned that they will get lynched, then unvote. I guess that could seem shady and I guess some people could be seen as bandwagoners if the call to pressure isn't out there first, but eh. also, the other side of that is that scum can hide in that vote. OK..back to trying to be of some help..


muerrto - questions like "what would you think of me if I weren't posting as much, yadda yadda" - I'm not that big of a fan of. The fact is, you have posted how you have and bringing hypotheticals like that into play cause distraction, getting the person off of their point, IMO. Kinda scummy.


on death_omen, I completely agree with Machonn's line of questioning in 142.
144 death_omen's response to why he's on WLC is weak, IMO. I sometimes think that if someone has lurked the entire game, it's possible that they aren't just around. Does this save them for the rest of the game? no. Are they helping the town? no. Is that a reason to lynch right now? no. I agree..lurkers need to be watched carefully, but how about we take a harder look at people who are actually playing right now...unless you think everyone posting is town?

also, he isn't really defending himself but just pointing fingers everywhere.

VampHunter says next would be WLC for lurking. Are there not others who were lurking? Was VH not lurking himself up until that point? I just think that's an iffy "next up" choice. Also, they only came on to answer a few light questions and then posts again to just with an agreeance to the fact that scum partners should be found and pressured (yet does not question anyone or bring their own suspicions to the table) and then is asking Pless if their answers were satisfactory -- paranoid that they aren't?

With Khel- I'm tryigng to decide whether Khel just plays really definitively...he takes a theory or suspicion and runs with it, or if he's scum. If he's this definitive..it's not such a good thing. To be so sure right off the bat pretty much that they were scumbuddies and then to keep going on that..eh. In 146 Khel says if town decides that death_omen is not the lynch today, he'll stop arguing. Then he says later that he's 100% sure death_omen is scum. Why would you give up then? And then at the end you urge town to lynch him. Who else do you think is suspicious? Why have you dropped muerrto if you were so convinced they're scumbuddies?
However, Khel's reasoning in 156 makes a lot of sense and matches his actions. So..I dunno.
You have such strong conviction that death_omen is scum. Could you make a comprehensive posts with all your reasons why? You just seem so sure and it's not as clear to the rest of us since it hasn't caught on.

Khel 160 - now you're ok with slowing down the lynch??


Omen is still under scrutiny but not saying much.
Also...he said he'd claim if it came to it and then says he gives up because we are unpersuadable. If you have a role, why give up so easily? Also, why bring it up so early when you weren't under nearly as much pressure as you are now? Odd.

Muerrto - good points in 177.

VH - 189..again, just posts to support someone else's ideas and then throws out "he hasn't done anything to help the town" and that's IT? Khel has posted a ton. No other thoughts on what he has said? Suspicious things to back your feeling that he is scum?
Pless 191 - yep yep yep

Khel's 197 - are you for real making that an argument against vamp?? lol I really laughed at that. I dunno..I've never seen scum mess up that blatantly...you're making a stretch there and that seems scummy to me.


First days are hard for me, and I'm not great at this..so don't take it TOO seriously. Here's my potential scum list from what I see. I don't think it helps the situation much though.. I'm in the same mass of unsurity as most everyone seems to be..my observations don't definitively tell me who's scum or not..:-/

My suspicions:
death_omen
muerrto
Khel
**VampHunter -- I think they have been particularly shady. "Sorry I forgot my earlier post" "lack of organization"...uhhhh yeeaahh - a scum that can't keep up with their storyline it seems like to me. I think that is huge.

It matters not to me if they were against each other in posts. I've only played one other game on this forum and in that game I saw so much scum distancing and then flat out scumfights that ended badly. So, I know scum do argue against each other.

This is my first-read-through general feeling type of thing. I haven't re-read through so my post could state stuff or have questions that were already answered that I missed. I want to do a more in-depth look at death_omen and khel's posts separately and then I may even cast a vote. But, it's after midnight and I do have to work all day tomorrow so that will have to wait. Usually I'm not working but it came up..so most of the time I will be contributing the best I can and oftenish

[SeraphicMirth]

On my first read of the recent posts I feel like neither Khel or Muerrto are scum. Muerrto's 238 makes total sense to me and matches up. Khel's 234 explanations seem to match up with his actions (however, one thing that makes me hesitate is his inclusion of Nelly on his scum list now.. I don't know what I think about that). So, I don't know now. Sadly, I often see how peoplecould be town rather than how they could be scum... :-/ I'm trying to improve on this.

I still really think that VH is suspicious..on top of what I said in my previous post, I was re-reading a little and they seemed almost too concious/nervous(?) about their vote count on page 1 and 2 during random vote stage. it's random vote stage..come on.


Also - it seems that d_o, muerrto and khel are the main ones coming up at the moment for hanging candidates. Is there some sort of odds to figure out the chance of them all being town or all being scum or..? Is it bad to go off of that? I guess it would be cuz odds are just odds. eh I dunno.

I am going to be gone Friday late afternoon until Sunday night (Pacific Time). I'm REALLY sorry about this!!! I'll read everything that happens in that time as soon as I get back, and hopefully have something to contribute on all that

[SeraphicMirth]

Plessiez: Vampaneze, DeathSauce and somestrangeflea--none of these people look scummy at all to me. Process of elimination dictates that as neither of these are Muerrto, Nellie, or D_O, there is a very, very low chance they are scum.

at all

??

Do you have any comments then on things people have pointed out on Vampaneze and why their answers have satisfied you enough to think they aren't suspicious AT ALL? (such as in 207 (VH = Vampaneze),215, 226,and 251..I think there are more but that's just a quick glance through)

[SeraphicMirth]

at all

??

Do you have any comments then on things people have pointed out on Vampaneze and why their answers have satisfied you enough to think they aren't suspicious AT ALL? (such as in 207 (VH = Vampaneze),215, 226,and 251..I think there are more but that's just a quick glance through)

EBWOP: "...Vampaneze and why his answers have satisfied[...]to think he isn't suspicous at all"

I use improper pronouns..it can be confusing who I'm referring to..sorry

[SeraphicMirth]

My only question is why would you Role Claim when you have only 4 votes on yourself? You make it seem like we all have worn you down and the truth is that nothing 24 has really changed in the last 24 hours besides me changing my vote your way

I have the same question..you also threatened to role claim pretty early as well. I'm always a little concerned about "TMI" on d1...could be extremely frustrated town, or it could be scum setting up a fake claim.

However, there is no counter claim at this point..so I won't vote you. I think maybe we should look at other options for now. Even if d_o was fake claiming and is scum, let's get a different scum hung, so a real cop wouldn't have to come out this early.

I've decided to

vote vampanezehunter

because a)I haven't voted yet lol and b)I'm not sure that the 3 that have been most discussed at the top of the scum list are scum, which i said earlier; and I do think that VH has done quite a few suspicious things without much of a defense.

I still think Khel is suspicious, I don't like how he's ignoring other possible scum because he's locked onto his 3 choice and therefore "by elimination" has to discount any other people as possible scum. Khel- Are you actively looking at others or are you so sure of yourself that you are only dissecting the 3? If D_O is the cop, and you were so sure he was paired with Muerrto...what now?

[SeraphicMirth]

If D_O is the cop, and you were so sure he was paired with Muerrto...what now?

nvm I see your answer

[SeraphicMirth]

yeeup.. but apparently a longer day is what we need because the lynch was off.

So..what are the theories? I don't have one at this point. Would it be worth it to look at what DeathSauce had posted throughout the game or is a n1 kill pretty random generally?

[SeraphicMirth]

I don't have one at this point.

Besides still being suspicious of VH, let me clarify

[SeraphicMirth]

I dunno why no one has mentioned that maybe Malchonn's character role doesn't allow him to be investigated, like perhaps a godfather. Happened to me before in another game.

I could also possibly see d_o being roleblocked to have suspicion cast upon him. I dunno, it just seems kinda stupid for scum to fake r.c. cop and then say "oh I got blocked"...too convinient which is what most people are thinking now.

I would still like to solve this without a real cop rc'ing (if there is one that isn't d_o)..I think we can do it. I dunno. I always prefer to get as far as we can without investigative r.c.ing

[SeraphicMirth]

Sorry about the confusion on Godfather. when I said it happened in another game to me, what I meant was the investigation came back as failed and the person was a godfather..it's not the way I usually play either, but I thought maybe that's how it went around here at MS. If not, then I guess that's not the case and d_o was roleblocked.

Where'd Muerrto and VH go?

[SeraphicMirth]

Hey I'm not voting you! I think if you are town then we should probably lynch Khev! I only said PROBABLY! Note that!

Why did you want us all to note that so much?


Your latest post seems way over the top, BTW. Are you usually this outraged at a mislynch? I mean, yeah, definitely a bad thing but...seriously? hmm.

[SeraphicMirth]

D_O, if you don't have any results tomorrow, you're a dead man.

So, this question was already posed to you and you didn't answer it (I don't think). I have the same question - now that he got back a fail, do you still stand by what you said? What do you think of D_O as he stands today? He doesn't have any results, so ...?

I was also tracking votes and I must point out that vampy and muerrto seem to stay on the same person together a lot.. on vote counts 4-9 they were on D_O and then on 10-end of the day on Khel..Khel was town, and I am going to assume that d_o is as well. On the 1st count of this day, they are yet again together. It just seemed a little like a voting block to me.

If he would have RC'd Vig I totally would have taken my vote down.

This makes me wanna say "well, duh" ..I mean, wouldn't most everyone do that?

[SeraphicMirth]

Ok well my opinion on the RC by d_o is that I must believe him for now, there hasn't been another investigative role that has come forward --and, as I stated before, I don't think they should if they exist because I think we can go forth with this game without them RCing...I don't know if the tradeoff of getting one scum vs. a cop counterclaiming and becoming roleblocked cop/killed cop is worth it. I just don't know. I mean..on the other hand, it is worth it if it comes down to scum getting away vs. a lynched townie.

I also think that if there was a real cop..I would hope that they are strongly trying to build a case against D_O and I haven't really seen much of that since he RC'ed either. So, that just gives me more reason to believe that d_o is telling the truth and that the block claim is true as well..I don't see why there is such a slim chance that happened. It definitely causes town to be confused about his claim of cop. Couldn't one of the mafia roles be a role blocker?

Now, on Nelly's hammer.. I think it was definitely a bad move and not letting Khel defend himself before that came down. However, Khel didn't really indicate (and as shown in his "bah!" post) that he had a role to claim before it came down. It'd be different if he posted and he was like "hey! I'm going to RC" and then the hammer came down from Nelly, but Khel didn't realize. I mean, someone has to be the hammer at some point and when its a mislynch, that hammer is NOT always going to be scum. In fact, I would guess that more than not, it wouldn't be scum.
So, that's kind of why I'm not looking too hard at Nelly. However..I do think the #5 and #6 votes might be worth looking at. I don't know who they are off the top of my head right now.

[SeraphicMirth]

The problem is you're using Khel's 'Bah' post as reason for the lack of an RC but remember that no one KNEW that Khel had screwed up his roles and therefore that point is moot. Nelly didn't know Khel would've just claimed townie.

That's not really what I was saying either, though. I guess all I was saying was that there probably wouldn't have been a RC at all since Khel didn't realize he had a role to claim. I mean..yeah I guess you can call vanilla town a role claim but eh.

Had Nelly's first post said 'Oh crap sorry guys.' Then I could possibly look at it differently but he came out saying who was suspicious after he had done the scummiest thing in the game so far without even bothering to give an explanation until I hounded him for it. Does that not bother you in the least? Wouldn't the normal townie reaction be 'Crap, I screwed up'? Does he seem remorseful or like he feels he made a mistake or did anything wrong? Can you guage his reactions and his current 'screw this' attitude and say you're pretty sure it was a noob mistake?

I think his "screw this" attitude sounds like frustrated town to me, but I need to re-read all his posts and your posts again and see if he's contradicting himself at all. From my first reads as they were posted, I feel like he's been pretty straightforward about his reasons and has stuck to that.

Now, as far as not saying it was a mistake..yes, that's a little fishy. but if he's just frustrated town, like I think at this point, then I can see someone getting frustrated and being like "I told you my reason and it made sense to me at the time" which is what I feel like he's saying. Again, I need to re-read more critically.

One thing I thought was off from him that he said was that he was actually trying to prevent a possible RC from Khel. But, again, in the context he said it..it seemed like he was town to me cuz it seemed he was honestly explaining why he did it and i don't think scum would have used that explanation. I mean, DUH, it sounds bad that you would want to prevent a pro-town RC..so why would scum say that? I dunno. That's why I'm hesitating and trying to look elsewhere. There's more than one scum in the game and we haven't lynched any..so they're out there. but..I guess we can't be 100% sure with anyone anyway. blargh. I dunno.

I'll re-read and get back to this. I'd like to hear more from other players as well..what they think about it. I think your 4 questions to everyone are good. [/quote]

[SeraphicMirth]

No where did I become bent out of shape. Read back and see what I called my MO, my playstyle. Witness it.

Have you ever personally led a mislynch as town because of your MO? I just wonder about it. It has its good points definitely for sure, but it also can cause town to close up and be frustrated. I re-read a bit and I really think that's what's going on with you and Nelly.

[SeraphicMirth]

Sorry, my internet got disconnected for a day... the perils of moving into a new house

3) Although Malchonn has been quiet (that's kind of hyppocritical), D_O supposedly investigated him failed and automatically thinks that Malchonn is scum.

This may seem like feeding him lines but I can assure you I'm not intending to. I'm looking at both sides of the story! Well at least he hasn't changed his vote because that would tempt me greatly to vote for him but for now

FoS: D_O

Where did he automatically think that Malchonn was scum because of his failed investigation? The first thing he said that his investigation failed so he thinks he got RBed or he had a sanity issue. Nothing about it being Malchonn's fault. Maybe I missed it or maybe you're trying to scrounge up some reasons..

[SeraphicMirth]

and

fos hijalti

the "I'm confused" argument never sits well with me. I have seen countless scum in RL and online sit behind "I'm confused" and never saying a whole lot else of content.

[SeraphicMirth]

ah gotcha. I guess I didn't understand your post

[SeraphicMirth]

I don't think d_o is suspicious and one of the main reasons why is that we haven't had a counterclaim, nor have we had anyone heavily building up a case against d_o (i.e. if they were cop but didn't want to claim but knew d_o was lying).


I think that people who keep bringing up d_o are scummy. Their plan to RB him and make him look suspicious enough to hang him for it quickly failed and they are still trying to cast suspicion that way.

[SeraphicMirth]

405:

D_O is the cop, but i'm not 100% sure i'm about that...I mean it is alot to go think of just to be cleared of being scum. But he if was scum then, I think someone already said it, why wouldn't he just say that someone is innocent?

428:

Ok I'd like to point out my supicions towards D_O. I know I have said that I thought he wasn't scum but the more he posts the more suspicious I become

FoS: D_O

After I post (445):

I think that people who keep bringing up d_o are scummy.

and d_O asks VH to answer their own question

449:

Well I don't really find you suspicious myself.

Question for you VH:
What exactly changed here?
Can you explain why your opinion changed between 428 and 449? When d_o posted between 428 and 449, he made you question him even more. If you were suspicious of him at 428, his 433/your 434 should have made you more suspicious, no? So, what changed your mind and convinced you he wasn't suspicious anymore?


I hate to harp on one player over and over but when they constantly show contradictions and flip flop over and over on the "suspicious player of the moment" (see next paragraph), I just have to think scum. It just sticks out to me again and again.

So I have to, again,

vote VampanezeHunter

I'm not trying to take attention away from Malchonn, I haven't gone back through and read all his posts, it's just that VH sticks out so much to me right now.

[SeraphicMirth]

over and over on the "suspicious player of the moment" (see next paragraph),

My bad, there is no "see next paragraph" that relates..I was going to go in on how much they flip-flopped on Khel, I have examples that were already pointed out, but then I decided to let VH answer my question instead of throwing all that out there on them.

[SeraphicMirth]

Well, Pless, I think I disagree. I mean, I suppose if they heavily started to counter d_o and then they came under fire, they would have to end up claiming..I didn't really think about how it would play out, but I still stand by my word that I don't like claims too early in the game and I like to get as far as possible without them. I mean, if a cop gets mafia early then they should reveal that info however they feel (it could possibly be done without an RC, too, though)..or to protect a mislynch if they know innocents, etc. but other than that..*shrug* I don't have any defense for that.


As far as how you think my 2 quotes conflict, I don't think so highly of myself to assume that the "real cop" (as I say in 350) would follow my every word and do what I say..lol So, that's why I said "hasn't rc'd or built up a case" - in case there was one and they would do either thing, and I would really hope they weren't just sitting around saying absolutely nothing.
And, just to be extra clear, the reason I was saying "in case there is a real cop" earlier on was because there were people still suspicious of D_O, though I wasn't as much. At the RC, I thought it was possible it was fake but as time went on, for the reasons I cited, I think that d_o is what he says.

So, I am trying to get people kind off of the whole point BECAUSE I think D_O is a cop and discussing his suspiciousness is scummy and diverts from finding real scum.
Fin.

[SeraphicMirth]

Well it was a mixture of 2 things. I was going to try and get a reaction from someone if I pressured them, in this case D_O, and also the post by vampddg kind of destroyed the point in even trying the method before as the evidence I was based on was turned into nothing by Vamp's post about how long the Mafia have to communicate!

Ok, well when I read through that page ..what you're saying here makes sense to me as an answer to my question.

So I'll

unvote VampanezeHunter

[SeraphicMirth]

Hey all, I'm going to be out until Sunday afternoon/evening. Going to a RL mafia games and drinkin' party at a friend's house for the weekend! ::insert nerd smiley here::

[SeraphicMirth]

blllahhhh ..i don't know where to go with this day.

Nelly - who is at the top of your suspicious list at this point?

Malchonn - who is at the top of your list?

[SeraphicMirth]

Alright everyone..back to reading through pages.. I dunno..I'm gonna re-read a few times and see if anything stands out once I know it like the back of my hand lol

[SeraphicMirth]

Ok, I've read through and I just have to

vote VampanzeHunter

yet again. Too many contradictions, even from like page 1.

#5 Hijallti random votes VH
#8 VH random votes Hijallti

Then this happens:
#18

Ok it's question time.

Question by Plessiez

Oh, no, better question: is it simply coincidence that you are "randomly" voting for somebody who had just voted for you?

Answer: Whoops I didn't look at who voted me I just looked at the list of names and chose one and then thought of a strange reason.

Keep this answer in mind..especially the "just looked at the list of names and chose one" part. Now, let's mosey on over to page 10, post #244

1)Do you still stand by your comment that your first vote was completely random or would you like to say that it was based on him voting for you?

Answers

1)Ok, ok I admit that it was partly to do with OMGUS but it was mostly to do with random vote+ a random reason!

So on #18 they said they randomly picked the name from the list and then in #244 they said it was OMGUS with a random reason. Sooo...yeah DIRECT CONTRADICTION.

Want more?

#22 - nervous about vote..is at "-5"..that's only 2 votes in the random stage, #39 - worried about their vote count again. All votes against him were random at that point.

#98 - overacting? no one said there was an SK for sure..just that muerrto "could be a scum or sk" (#96) Also says in this post "I have 2 chances of dying"..trying to drop too much of a town hint?

#150 - posts after lurking a while to repeat what others have been saying - that we need to look for other scum for d2, but doesn't offer suggestions or ask questions. Then, asks Pless if their answers to his questions (#147) were satisfactory enough -- again, seems like nervous scum.


#147/#166/#189 - #147 he says that Khel isn't as suspicious, then in #166- Khel is more suspicious. #147- says that Khel has said some things to open his eyes, #189 says that Khel has done nothing, in his eyes, to help the town.

#169- we should "probably" lynch Khel and tells us to make a note of the word "probably" ...because he knows that khel isn't scum..?

#212- explains the inaccuracies by saying they forgot what they said before. That is so strange and scummy to me.

See Pless' #215, I think it's good

#225 now thinks that Khel is town after saying he was scum in #166 and reconfirming in #199


Then there is my #451 which shows even more flip-flopping!

In addition, I've pointed these out before..and at least one other person has pointed out some of it. Yet, no one really ever comments about it. I won't say why I think this is strange, because it's probably WIFOM, I think..which probably also means I shouldn't go by it.. but..it's strange.

I'm sorry but when I re-read I just can't see anyone else sticking out so much as VH. So, unless something drastic happens otherwise, there's where my vote is going to be for the 2nd day in a row.


I dunno..no one else has to vote with me if I'm way way off and crazy. That's fine.

[SeraphicMirth]

VH - It's only very slight ..I think one time I let you go and unvoted you?? I don't think I've done it more than once. It's because part of me thinks like Muerrto does in this case, and I want to let it go..but then when I re-read you stand out to me so much.

I'm still looking at what others have found and it is possible my vote will change, I just don't know.


Why are we all still discussing whether DO is for real or not? I don't get how it's beneficial to finding the right lynch for today.

[SeraphicMirth]

I've already stated my opinion on Nelly way back. It stands. I will not vote for him, I think he's town. Bad town, perhaps. But, town. All I saw, as he sees, is people trying to take him down for putting the last vote on d1. His explanation made sense to me. Every time he explained, it got torn down as he says. I saw him getting frustrated at the time...so I'm not surprised it reached this level. Anyway, I'm not voting for him.

[SeraphicMirth]

VH, hammering isn't inherently bad. Don't ever be scared to hammer someone you think is scum. No one's going to attack you tomorrow for hammering Nelly. His attitude is hammering himself.

Truth. I promise I won't put it in any of my "look at VH" posts, if you do something else to make me think you're still scum again later on

[SeraphicMirth]

His explanation made sense to me.

to clarify: his explanation made sense to me for why he personally did it. It wasn't a good reason..fear of a chain of RC's..because, that can be solved by just discussing more. I think it was just lack of experience error.

[SeraphicMirth]

Is Nelly still suspect #1 for everyone? Who else do you think is suspicious? I just discovered how to look at one player's post within the thread (!!!), super excited about that lol So, I'm gonna try to go through each player individually. It just makes it easier for me to not get distracted by other players when trying to follow one inside the game. woo!
So, I'll post that soonish..there's a lot of posts to read through with that.

I feel like the majority of the people in the game were/are looking at Nelly as #1. So, if you now are more inclined to believe he's town..then who's #2?

[SeraphicMirth]

ok so a summary of each player. If I mention any post numbers, this is by their individual post number, not the game thread post number. IT's long but there are some questions for some people..so scan at least LOL

death_omen - I'm not going to spend time analyzing his posts at this point..they're really long and I also believe he is who he says for now. If it's reasonably under question about being the cop (like tomorrow perhaps) then I'll go look through.

hjallti - FOSes a lot, but rarely votes. I'm not experienced enough to know if this is a scumtell or not. Does a lot of summaries/analyses, asks some good questions here and there, his posts just seem to come from a very town POV. So, I'm more inclined to say town. Hasn't been on in a while, he said he has limited access until the 28th - so hopefully he'll weigh in a bit more before the deadline is up.

Malchonn - doesn't post very often, but does post quite a bit of content. I think he's pretty solid and asks good questions. However, one thing did catch my eye - in his 13th post he says that he thinks Nelly is more noobish and asks everyone who is considering voting Nelly why they think he's more scummy than noob..as if he is under the opinion that Nelly is noob town. Then, just 2 posts later, Nelly is suspect #1. Question: What changed your mind? Granted, there was 10 realtime days between those two posts..but still, seems interesting.
Also, you FOSed Hijalti twice fairly close together. If he's that suspicious to you two times in a row, why not vote?


Muerrto - Also FOSes a lot, but rarely votes. The 3 people that he FOSed/was questioning more heavily/ranked as his most suspicious near the start were Khel, Omen and Sauce. Khel and Sauce turned up town, and Omen is most likely town.
Went after Nelly heavily, also someone I suspect is most likely town.

When he questions/posts/responds to these people..he likes to interject things/summarize what they say but put a little twist on it...it's slight but here's one example:

It would be dead right now if Muertto wasnt accusing people left right and center , he seems keen to pick up on every single post targeted against him with strong comebacks.

Lets see now... Vote:Muerrto

Sooo you're voting me because I'm actually posting as opposed to lurking like most of the other players? That was the worst reason yet.

That is not *quite* what death_omen said, but Muerrto repackaged it as such.

Has been fairly quiet recently.

I dunno, Muerrto confuses me. He seems town cuz he posts a lot of content and seems genuine in investigating/asking questions, but most of that content is aimed at players that I believe to be town/were killed and came up town..so it's tough to say. He could play pretty good scum, I imagine. That's the way I'm leaning on Muerrto.

Question for Muerrto: Your vote is still on Nelly. Is he the lynch for today? Do you think he's scum or do you think he's noob town?
Question 2: You were the one that brought up that today's correct lynch is important to stay out of LYLO tomorrow. How will that affect your voting before the deadline for this day?

Nelly - I am fairly convinced he's town. Throughout the day he was back and forth on D_O and Khel. His hammer of Khel falls in line with his thinking throughout the day. He was already suspicious of either Khel or DO all day long and if DO claimed, I could see him going "well that means it's Khel" and just putting the hammer down - overeager. Plus his own explanation which makes total sense for his actions.

as an aside -Nelly comments on VH's list of suspects. I just noticed on the quote that he responds to from VH, VH says he suspects Nelly because he's trying to throw suspicion around. Uh..up until that point, his only suspicions were DO and Khel. Hardly throwing them around. Anyway..that's a point on VH, not on Nelly lol


Pless- Posts intelligent posts, lots of good content and good questions. Finds reasonable things to point out..doesn't seem to stretch for arguments too much. However, IGMEOY because I'm afraid he could be really good scum. The mafia players who come off as quite intuitive and intelligent scare me..hehe
Question: Who's your top suspects at this time?


Strangeflea- I have no read on him at all. He doesn't post a ton of content but when he does post it seems townish, maybe. I don't know. One noticeable thing - Says over and over he doesn't want Nelly to be lynched, or that he should be replaced instead, yet won't move his vote?
Question: Do you think Nelly is more scum than town or more town than scum?

VH - I've already stated and analyzed him more than once. Brought up another point about him in my analysis of Nelly. My vote's on him right now. Not really gonna rehash it.

Vampy - Another one that I don't really have a read on. I'd lean more towards scum cuz he doesn't really question anyone, and his latest post..eh I don't like the reasoning "well, true, if we hang Nelly and he's town we're in LYLO, but he's disruptive so..let's hang him anyway".
The end result doesn't change ...we'd be in LYLO if he's town.
So, question: Are you fine with us possibly being in LYLO tomorrow then?

My top scum list:
Muerrto
VampanezeHunter

I'm going to keep my vote as is.

[SeraphicMirth]

Yeah, but you have to see what I'm saying. your ONLY suspects have been 2 people who turned out town, one who is most likely town (omen) and maybe Nelly is town (I believe so, others don't..that's fine).

So..you were wrong on 2 counts and probably on 2 others. I dunno. I respect where you're coming from...it makes sense..which is why you confuse me, as I said

[SeraphicMirth]

I have only read part way through Nelly's first post and WOAH WOAH no no I am not a cop. If i was, I would have been building up a claim against D_O.

[SeraphicMirth]

So, don't take anything I say as solid at all..they are all just my personal opinions from what I have read.

[SeraphicMirth]

I don't have much to add since I did a summary recently...I don't really have any new ideas since then b/c it's all been focused on Nelly..but I'm here and reading and being attentive

[SeraphicMirth]

A) The whole thing about how I restate other's words but twist them? I didn't quite see that.

I gave an example. I think that showed it. Like I said, you do it very slightly.

Now granted you may be right but can you take 2 similar situations and see them that juxtaposed? Doesn't make sense to me.

They are not the same at all. Nelly was CLEARLY town to me..he was acting exactly like frustrated town. VH? Not as much. Maybe slightly newbie but maybe not.

As for Sauce, as I mentioned earlier, read back and you'll see that didn't exist.

Ate you saying you weren't suspicious of Sauce? I can definitely quote exactly where you said that you were MOST worried about him.

Pless asked me day 1 if I assume everyone's town at the start and then go from there. Seraph seems to go the opposite direction but I think that's dangerous IMO.

eh not really..I often see how people are town rather than scum but I'm trying to be proactive here, so that means searching for scum.


Aimee- RE: people I didn't have a read on. Basically, I feel like they could very well be scum. I think around here, all scum need is one or two people of theirs talking a lot and the other ones to hang around and not care about the game much. So..they would fall into that category. I'd have to maybe really really do more of a deep read through for them.


Everyone - I have limited access til September 16th. The cable company at my new house still hasn't got it hooked up (grr..it's been A MONTH!!), but I go back to college on the 16th so my dorm will have stable internet. Anyway..I'm around like once every day/every other day. So..yeah.

[SeraphicMirth]

*Ate = are

[SeraphicMirth]

Ok the deadline has pratically passed where I live

It was extended to the 8th of September...so...you live a week ahead of time??

[SeraphicMirth]

D_O - my main suspects are the same as they have been. VH and Muerrto, though I'm not even 100% sure of either one of them (obviously).

I think you need to look deeper in your suspicion of Aimee. I'm not saying that I totally think she's town or anything, but your reasoning seems to be based just off the fact that Malchonn lurked. Aimee has been posting things with substantial content and her wording and reactions in post #635 make me lean towards her being town, though I'm keeping an eye out..anyone who posts a lot of content has my eye cuz I'm afraid they use lots of logic to make loops. So, I try to read their posts more carefully.
Anyway..I'm just wondering if you've actually read her posts or you were just dead set on Malchonn, therefore his replacement, being scum no matter what?


Oh, and my other suspicions are anyone who is lurking..easy to say but I said earlier..I think scum can get away with a lot if they have one or two of them talking a bunch and the rest kind of non committal with the game.

[SeraphicMirth]

with my limited access I don't have time to read these long posts between Muerrto and Aimee but I do have a question

do you both think the other is scum and your discussion between the two of you is still worthwhile/productive or do you think we need to be looking elsewhere right now? We're on deadline, still a little bit away but..I feel like we're not really closer to figuring out a correct hang for today (this comment is dependant upon the fact that I haven't read any of the long posts yet..)

My internet is supposedly hooked back up at my new house and steady..so we'll see if I get time later this evening or tomorrow evening to really look through stuff.

[SeraphicMirth]

I wasn't berating you guys lol I just had a feeling it was more of a "let's clarify for each other" type of convo

[SeraphicMirth]

aacckkk...I want to believe it's just noob..as far as I can tell, this really is your first mini. buuuuttt I'm afraid you're just using it and we really caught you as noob scum.
blllaghh.

I dunno..I'm still gonna keep my vote. I dunno..it just seems like a lot of stuff..more than just nervousness. I dunno.

If you're town and you get hung, don't quit MafiaScum..I would feel bad.

[SeraphicMirth]

Bah! GO TOWN!!!

[SeraphicMirth]

OMG I *KNEWWW* Muerrto. It killed me that I got killed lol and when I got killed, the mod chose not to tell me what the result of my investigation was..so I've been watching the game, just going "Ahhh!! MUERRTOOO!!!"

Good game to watch, I really like how the end played out.

[SeraphicMirth]

Oh and to Vel, very nicely moderated..the narration is great

[SeraphicMirth]

Oh and also I am very pleased to say that I would play with any of you again. In a lot of games, people get too upset and end up being total jerks and ruining games. So, good sportsmanship all

OK so much to say for someone who replaced in and died night 2 but this was a good game lol