SAGA FRONTIER MAFIA (GAME END)

[ZZZX]

the claim is weird. but unless we are double lynching i wouldnt lynch him "yet"

[Albert B. Rampage]

I agree with ZZZX. What's interesting about the current game state is that no one is under much heat. Sure TCC and DGB's names are tossed around, but we're accomplishing precious little. I will be V/LA Wednesday until Monday while traveling so please be aware.

[Yosarian2]

If the town vig was already dead, then maybe we could risk letting TCC live. But as it is, we can't risk it; TCC's claimed win condition will force him to keep lynching and nightkilling townies until the vig is dead. And that's assuming there is only 1 real town vig.

[Rylai and Lina]

I prefer a double lynch on dgb and TCC

if TCC is third party we just killed someone so scummy with him.

if TCC flips mafia , then I really think DGB is his partner.

if not , tell me why not

~Rylai

[Frozen Angel]

I'm sick of her attitude I just want her to die or I am parking my vote on her forever until she's dead in the ground.

have I said "fuck you" like for a thousands time ? if not "fuck you"

[Rylai and Lina]

I'm sick of her attitude I just want her to die or I am parking my vote on her forever until she's dead in the ground.

have I said "fuck you" like for a thousands time ? if not "fuck you"

though I'm still in hydra acc ...

~Rylai

[wgeurts]

If the town vig was already dead, then maybe we could risk letting TCC live. But as it is, we can't risk it; TCC's claimed win condition will force him to keep lynching and nightkilling townies until the vig is dead. And that's assuming there is only 1 real town vig.

You do realise 3 town vigs are dead and I'm gambling my entire win-condition on there not being any more and if there are scum shooting them?
It is a gamble, but it is better than having no chance of winning.
Once again, if we deviate from the towns will you simply Lynch us. The whole "they will betray us" is invalid as if we do; we die.

[DrippingGoofball]

I don't mind if you guys lynch me because I'm hopelessly behind, but I am town.

If you want to lynch a useless player, at least lynch a useless scum like ZZZX.

Having said that I understand why no one would listen to me, sooooo...

[The Cool Cucumbers]

If the town vig was already dead, then maybe we could risk letting TCC live. But as it is, we can't risk it; TCC's claimed win condition will force him to keep lynching and nightkilling townies until the vig is dead. And that's assuming there is only 1 real town vig.

You do realise 3 town vigs are dead and I'm gambling my entire win-condition on there not being any more and if there are scum shooting them?
It is a gamble, but it is better than having no chance of winning.
Once again, if we deviate from the towns will you simply Lynch us. The whole "they will betray us" is invalid as if we do; we die.

Hydra pickup.

Skybird, we are at L-2. Also, please don't attempt to draw parallels between Drixx and myself to justify lynching us. Our analysis is similar, and the way we discover scum is. That's what we're referring to all those times when we mention how similar our play is. If you don't believe us that's one thing, but please have some more thought behind it than "well Drixx did thing this one time".

Yosarian: what wgeurts said. 3 town vigs are already dead. There is nothing we can do to attempt to *out* town prs, because you already know our objective, amd considering all the dead vigs had unlimited, though gated, shots, I'm quite willing to risk losing by becoming passive at this point and letting scum shoot who they will, rather than GUARANTEE lowing by not doing what you want. *shrug* you could even have zulfy sliding us and skybird role block us every night. That'll ensure that we can't vote against towns interests, or shoot without your blessing.

Yes, if there are NO town left , obviously town doesn't win because your win condition specifies at least one member of the protagonists must be alive.

Whoever doubted that was all we could do: We have a functional strongman kill which let's people keep talking, and we're permanently bulletproof. What else would we need?? Even if we had other abilities we could use, unless they are day powers, roleblocking us would keep us from using them.Again zzzx can rolecop us if he wants, and confirm that we haven't left anything out if you still have all these doubts about the threat we pose.

Actually, I'm going to do wgeurts one better. If we get to 7p, the point where, if we were scum, you'd be in lylo, just fucking lynch us. I'm willing to bet we can win the game today/tomorrow, by lynching scum twice in a row, or even win tonight, by lynching scum today and having us shoot where you want us to tonight. If two scum flip and the game doesn't end, kill us. If we shoot where you don't want us to, or vote when you don't want us to, kill us. If we are alive at 7p, for the love of everything fucking kill us.

Just don't kill us now while we can still win without you risking we'll make you lose.

You have the means to control us perfectly and remove all the normal risks of leasing a 3p kill. Up to you to use it.

-Cerb

[Drunken Pirates]

Hello mollie?
wgeurts speaking here.
Could you possibly not make us loose, I mean: think of the benefits of keeping us alive. We can take out suspects at will, and we have to hunt scum. We are a threat to the scum team!
If the game isn't over once all scum are dead lynch us. But that won't happen.
Yes this is a desperate attempt at winning you over. Realise that scum see us as a threat, and in the case we do get lynched please take a really good look at who went after us; especially after we claimed.

you tried to stump/kill us on d1. are you fucking kidding me here?

catching up

plz tell abr's sanity returns and that very very stupid klingon thing stops posting.

[Drunken Pirates]

Lol. Is copying Skype logs even legal? There's probably no faking that. Wgeurts giving me the hammer and scum reading me now makes sense. It was confusing me since it didn't make much sense for either town or scum. Third party though. Heh.

Can you post the one where you target Pip?

flum i am here

Hey. Do you think we should still lynch him, or try to leash him?

I am leaning lynch him but I am still catching up. they tried to fuck town over it and is lol that they are now begging for mercy when they are caught.

if yoyo becomes stricken with...whatever it is that going around then I literally give up and will only talk to you for the rest of the game.

DON'T DRINK THE WATER FLUM

[Drunken Pirates]

Frozen Angel
Why can't we live?
What is the benefit of us dying?
Think people, think!
I'm not letting us get lynched stupidly after all this.

a scum tree stumper will die and town has a chance to just end this game tonight.

~Rylai

A: Not scum, we win with town or loose.
B: Wrong, as once again; not-scum.

BULLSHIT

you tried to stump us on d1 after I said we wld be mod-confirmed and stumped itelpip after they dayvigged the sk.

you have never ONCE had town's best interest in mind except mebbe gogurts here and there cerby obvsly doesn't give a shit about town.

god plz tell me it gets better

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Hello mollie?
wgeurts speaking here.
Could you possibly not make us loose, I mean: think of the benefits of keeping us alive. We can take out suspects at will, and we have to hunt scum. We are a threat to the scum team!
If the game isn't over once all scum are dead lynch us. But that won't happen.
Yes this is a desperate attempt at winning you over. Realise that scum see us as a threat, and in the case we do get lynched please take a really good look at who went after us; especially after we claimed.

you tried to stump/kill us on d1. are you fucking kidding me here?

catching up

plz tell abr's sanity returns and that very very stupid klingon thing stops posting.

mollie, how did we try to fuck town over? Seriously?

Imagine you don't know your own alignment, and you see a hydra with you and Titus in it, a pair of very good players. You then see this hydra claim BP on D1, while under no pressure and without anyone prompting them to claim. Are you telling me you would seriously not be suspicious of that claim? Then suppose you have a means of removing them as threats if they're scum, while ensuring you do not deprive the town of their scum hunting skills if it turns out they're town?

How is that "fucking town over?" Why are you so much more upset over this, than you would be if we had tried to get you lynched? It amounts to the same thing, we just had more tools to act on our suspicion than people usually do.

Please mollie, try to look at this through the eyes of someone who *doesn't* know your alignment.

-Cerb

pedit: You NEVER said you would be mod confirmed on D1. You said you would be unkillable at 10 players. If you DID say you would be mod confirmed, then I missed it, but considering that your mod confirmation was something people were questioning EVEN TODAY I'm pretty certain you did not say that. We stumped itlepip because he was a vig, it was our win con to remove him, AND killing a SK didn't make him town. You even pointed out yourself( I think, but someone else may have said that, if so, sorry.) that shooting a sk doesn't mean someone isn't scum.

[Drunken Pirates]

This could be you guys:

Spoiler:

okay this pic is AWSUM

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Oooh, actually, I just had a thought! Since I realized the idea of having skybird RB us is meh if you don't think she's town(which pretty much nobody should think), How about on the nights when you don't want us to shoot anyone, we attempt to shoot skybird, and skybird roleblocks us. If anyone gets stumped other than her, then you know we betrayed you and lynch us, and it ensures she doesn't use her roleblock to stop anything else that's going on unless she wants to die herself.

That's if you don't trust skybird only, ofc.

-Cerb

pedit:

[ZZZX]

Thats actually a good idea.

-Z

[Drixx]

TCC/Cerb, you mentioned your play and Drixx' play is very similar. I was in another game with Drixx where he claimed 3rd party that can win with town. In the end, he was scum.

Everyone, I intend to vote TCC when I get home tonight if he is still alive. I'm late for work and don't have time to figure out where he is on the vote count and I don't want to accidentally hammer.

There's a huge difference between that situation and this one.

1.) I replaced into SMITE on day 3, after the previous player on the slot had made the 3rd party claim in the neighborhood. I was stuck with it. He actually was making a really good play asking Mastin to check him, but then he lost his nerve and claimed 3rd party because she slipped that her cop ability didn't give an alignment, but was binary and so 3rd party would appear the same as scum. I inherited the claim and played it the only way I could ... but it was always fake.

2.) Varsoon and I have talked about the state of 3rd party roles on the site, and we both have agreed that it would be cool if they weren't just policy lynches. Like ... I don't want to go into more detail because there may or may not be 3rd party roles in a game I'm working on right now (seriously haven't decided so if any of you end up in the game, don't make bad assumptions LOL).

2a.) Varsoon has already taken steps in that direction. Suikoden U-Pick had a really cool town aligned survivor role. The town didn't believe that the role was an asset to them (it functioned as a quasi-cop as I recall) and did the "all 3P must be lynched" thing and lost an asset. Varsoon is doing a good thing, I think, and I would not at all be surprised if TCC's claim is 100% true. It explains the things that were bothering me about the slot and yesterday's party can go look at what I was saying and confirm that the claim does indeed satisfy the things that were bothering me.

3.) It's almost a certainty that they're a third party, where the situation with my slot in SMITE was that I got put into a neighborhood with a goo spreader who could cop anyone who got goo on them (it was swarms of bees, but the wiki would call that role a goo spreader, so using that terminology). It's also really bad logic to go "Drixx says he thinks like Cerberus. Drixx replaced into a slot that had already fake claimed third party and ended up being scum. Therefore Cerb is fake claiming." (I expect the critical flaw in that logic is exposed when I put it that way yeah? Even if our similar approach would lead to him making similar plays to me, the 3rd party claim in SMITE didn't originate with me and isn't the way I would have chosen to play that role ... although I shouldn't complain since I managed to win the game with it).

If the town vig was already dead, then maybe we could risk letting TCC live. But as it is, we can't risk it; TCC's claimed win condition will force him to keep lynching and nightkilling townies until the vig is dead. And that's assuming there is only 1 real town vig.

I think we may not have any more town aligned people with a killing power on their role card. We've seen three flip yeah? They may have already done all the "damage" they'll ever need to do to town already, in which case if we kill them we just give up having them around if we need to confirm someone's claim but want to keep them around. For example, at some point we'll want to confirm R&L's claim ... but having their voices still around afterward would be super helpful ... while also knowing that they were telling the truth and we know the people they cleared are conftown. There's a role in the game that does that for us.

We also have someone who claims to get near total immunity when the number of people alive hits 10 or fewer. If that's a scum role or we need to flip it ... again it can be stumped while retaining the player voices on the slot.

Being stumped and losing powers is WAY better than using lynches to handle paranoia concerns, because when they get stumped then we know whether we can trust their claims or not, plus town stumps cannot be silenced and can continue to help advance their win condition. This is vastly preferable to wasting lynches on paranoia.

This role actually seems like a net positive to me ... assuming there are no more town vigilantes and the damage to town is already done (and that seems likely given THREE town aligned players with killing ability have flipped).

Given that they are willing to leash and help us avoid wasting lynches on anyone we need to confirm ... I would argue it's logical to leave them alive, especially in light of the fact that we know Varsoon has recently been tinkering with making third party roles which shouldn't be killed as a matter of policy.

@Varsoon - Do acquired abilities (techniques) which could give someone a kill (For example, the second sword technique grants a night kill if the person hammers the lynch) count as a killing ability in the same way a Vigilante or Serial killer kill ability does? In a hypothetical situation where someone's win condition is to "eliminate" anyone with a killing ability, would abilities acquired by sparking techniques need to be "eliminated" to meet that hypothetical win condition?

Hello mollie?
wgeurts speaking here.
Could you possibly not make us loose, I mean: think of the benefits of keeping us alive. We can take out suspects at will, and we have to hunt scum. We are a threat to the scum team!
If the game isn't over once all scum are dead lynch us. But that won't happen.
Yes this is a desperate attempt at winning you over. Realise that scum see us as a threat, and in the case we do get lynched please take a really good look at who went after us; especially after we claimed.

you tried to stump/kill us on d1. are you fucking kidding me here?

catching up

plz tell abr's sanity returns and that very very stupid klingon thing stops posting.

To be really fair ... what you guys have claimed is kind of scary. If you are scum and have fooled those of us town reading you ... it's game over if you are being honest about your ability. I kind of want to keep them around just in case we get to the stage where paranoia starts making have to consider strong town reads like you guys. On day one, I may have made the same decision in their shoes. Right now, I would be seriously pissed if you guys showed up tree stumped tomorrow.

@all:

Given that we know Varsoon (like me) feels that third party roles need an overhaul and should not be policy lynches, and given that we have a very recent game of his finished where there was a third party which was very much a pro-town role, and given that any "damage" this role would do to town is likely already done, and given that it actually makes logical sense and explains the things that were bothering me about their slot ... I would suggest that you seriously re-evaluate your thinking. If we lynch TCC, it should be because we think they're scum fake claiming, imo. Their role as claimed, if they're being honest, is actually useful to us, especially if they already got all the town vigs gone. It even has the added upside of allowing us to paranoia check and still retain strong voices who we would know for sure have town win condition and who we could then trust 100%, and they've agreed to act only with our consent.

This seems to me like the ideal leash scenario.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Although, honestly, I don't know if keeping skybird alive is a good idea, but it's the only known way to control us, unless someone wants to go adventuring for suplex.

Actually.

@Varsoon: Can more than one fist technique be used in the same day phase, without the usage of Dream Super Combo? Basically, if someone had the first two levels of Fist techniques, could they use both Sliding and Suplex on the same target, in the same day phase?

-Cerb

pedit: Drixx post. Will read and respond

[Drunken Pirates]

Yeah, I still think we lynch CC today. If he's telling the truth, he's still a quasi-SK who's win condition requires him to kill multiple townies. He says he wins with the town, but if he has to kill all the townies to find the vigs, I suspect the town still loses.

And I.don't think he's quite telling the whole truth here.

oh thank god

thank you thank you thank you yoyo

what is wrong with abr? did he drink the water? I told you pple not to do that

[Drunken Pirates]

TCC/Cerb, you mentioned your play and Drixx' play is very similar. I was in another game with Drixx where he claimed 3rd party that can win with town. In the end, he was scum.

Everyone, I intend to vote TCC when I get home tonight if he is still alive. I'm late for work and don't have time to figure out where he is on the vote count and I don't want to accidentally hammer.

plz plz do

[Yosarian2]

For example, at some point we'll want to confirm R&L's claim ... but having their voices still around afterward would be super helpful ... while also knowing that they were telling the truth and we know the people they cleared are conftown.

Uh. We ARE NOT going to kill R&L just to "confirn" them. And yes, from the pov of the town win condition, a tree stump is the same as dead.

If you think R&L are scum and we should kill then, make your case. At least ABR made a case against tgem. You trying to kill them just to "confirm them" is bad bad bad badbadbadbadbad.

[Drixx]

Yeah, I still think we lynch CC today. If he's telling the truth, he's still a quasi-SK who's win condition requires him to kill multiple townies. He says he wins with the town, but if he has to kill all the townies to find the vigs, I suspect the town still loses.

And I.don't think he's quite telling the whole truth here.

oh thank god

thank you thank you thank you yoyo

what is wrong with abr? did he drink the water? I told you pple not to do that

What if all the town vigs are already gone? Then they aren't a threat at all to town (if they are being honest about win condition). It's a pretty absurdly good fake claim if it's fake. Cerberus was watching Babylon 5 and commenting on it with my wife and I until a few minutes before he made that post. If he pulled that out of his ass in 5 minutes ... holy shit.

[Drunken Pirates]

For example, at some point we'll want to confirm R&L's claim ... but having their voices still around afterward would be super helpful ... while also knowing that they were telling the truth and we know the people they cleared are conftown.

Uh. We ARE NOT going to kill R&L just to "confirn" them. And yes, from the pov of the town win condition, a tree stump is the same as dead.

If you think R&L are scum and we should kill then, make your case. At least ABR made a case against tgem. You trying to kill them just to "confirm them" is bad bad bad badbadbadbadbad.

where did abr make his case?

[Drixx]

For example, at some point we'll want to confirm R&L's claim ... but having their voices still around afterward would be super helpful ... while also knowing that they were telling the truth and we know the people they cleared are conftown.

Uh. We ARE NOT going to kill R&L just to "confirn" them. And yes, from the pov of the town win condition, a tree stump is the same as dead.

If you think R&L are scum and we should kill then, make your case. At least ABR made a case against tgem. You trying to kill them just to "confirm them" is bad bad bad badbadbadbadbad.

Yos ... I think you missed the part where I said if we get into the late game and things aren't adding up ... it would be much better to stump claims we need to check rather than waste lynches. If the game lasts that long and we have to flip R&L to confirm you as conftown ... I think you agree it would be considerably better for them to be treestumped and not cost us a lynch to do that, right?

Don't take what I'm saying out of its proper context. I don't think we should just stump people to confirm their claims right this second. I do think that if somehow the game goes on for long enough that we need to start confirming things, being able to do so without losing a lynch to do it is a really strong upside.

[Rylai and Lina]

For example, at some point we'll want to confirm R&L's claim ... but having their voices still around afterward would be super helpful ... while also knowing that they were telling the truth and we know the people they cleared are conftown.

Uh. We ARE NOT going to kill R&L just to "confirn" them. And yes, from the pov of the town win condition, a tree stump is the same as dead.

If you think R&L are scum and we should kill then, make your case. At least ABR made a case against tgem. You trying to kill them just to "confirm them" is bad bad bad badbadbadbadbad.

ABR case is BS

ABR push is BS as well

and I'm not going to die for this BS

a tree stumped person is a dead person who can talk. I have other abilities and my vote. If you think I'm scum and lying go ahead. I'm here to answer. If not back off and lynch this obv scum

~Ryali