The War to End All Freaktowns: GAME OVER

[Blight]

Let's see who's on this list... OMFG MOS AND BM are there!!!11!!!111!!one

Look, the two players so adamantly pushing the item claim,

even though, like, the rest of the town did

havn't claimed. No, No one's scum alarms are going off.

Something is up. And if I'm the only one who notices it, something is definitely wrong.

I agree 100%. I think MOS and BM should claim before anyone else does.

[YagamiLight]

I agree as well, MoS and BM should be the next 2 to claim.

[JDodge]

Yup.

I'm still not seeing an item-claim.

[Fritzler]

did we ever find out who took survivor?

[Fritzler]

ah kilroy, give me survivor tonight, i can give you fullmetal jacket, or prepare to meet your wrath

[Fritzler]

So that people don't go chasing ghosts I will state, for the record, I am holding the Survivor DVD. However, I also need it, so, despite my love of freedom, I will be forced to hang on to it myself.

And, LAL is awesome. The problem being, we can't really prove he was lying, even if he died.

unvote, vote: kilroy

everyone who likes me will continue this trend

[Kinetic]

Ibby:

I did bring these concerns up before the claim began. They were ignored. That is why I am so frustrated. Here are my three major anti-claim posts. True, one of them was made mid-way through the claim, but I was the only person who was trying to discuss the possibilities. When no one responded, and I found myself talking to just myself, I couldn't do anything but twiddle my thumbs. It was hard for me to think of every possibility, and sometimes it just takes time. Since I was the only one thinking about how this might HURT the town, I couldn't think of everything at once. Some help would have been appreciated.

The first claim I could find (KScopes) was made on the 11th and the 12th. So, I really don't understand how you could say "I should have brought this up before". I did.

What exactly would item claiming entail? Would we claim all the items we currently have? Would we claim what items come from out store? Would we claim the items we need? I'm a little confused as to where item claiming begins and ends...

I'll tell you the honest truth, I really don't like this item claiming thing.

First, there is not even a consensus on WHAT we are claiming. There are three possible item lists we can claim as I see it. The items we are currently holding, the items we can get randomly from our stores, and the items we need. Some people are saying we are only claiming the items that we are holding, others are saying other things.

Second, no one has presented a case where this HELPS town. Are we going to item claim every day? Even if we did, the scum still have plenty of time to make up a story. From what I have read, this might help the scum by letting them pick up items that they know other players need or holding items they can't use just so someone else doesn't use it.

Third, how do we know that the scum don't have some sorts of abilities that require them to know what items someone has or needs, and can use some power roles for it? What if scum need certain items from people and decide when to kill the based on that knowledge.

I'm sorry, I really don't like this idea, nor the way people are just saying "Its a good idea" without explaining why. I've seen some vague explanations, but that is it. Until some of these points are addressed, I can honestly say I will be avoiding a mass item claim at this time.

I have stated all I will on the item claim. The terms keep changing and if there was discussion before the given terms were set, I would have pointed something out: Mainly that you can possibly derive the store from which your item came from based on what you dropped. I don't want to give that information out to the scum at the current time, it is something I feel the scum could make much more use of then the town.

I'm not sure how the "dead" shops work, but it seems to me those items are not going to be lost forever. Either someone has an ability that lets them loot dead character's stores (which seems like a scummy ability to me, but it could be town), the item rolled for on the list is "dropped" from the store at the beginning of the next day, or people can just choose to steal from the store at will (the doors are open, we can see all the items), I think it is a little crazy to give out that information yet. I would hate to be night killed because some scum wants the items in my store. So I refuse to tell them where I'm from.

As I understand it the point of the item claim is to determine who is holding what. If someone doesn't claim to have picked up what I dropped, I would make a note of it and maybe say something, but I'm sure someone would notice if an item that was on the ground wasn't claimed. I will also definitely claim what item I dropped if someone decides to be a wise guy and claim to have dropped something I actually dropped.

Also, the only reason I even claimed I had nothing was because I in fact have nothing. I don't really think going through with the item claim is a good idea, solely on the principal that the scum could kill someone who has an item they need. If I was actually holding something I would have been a lot more vehement against this item claim, and its possible I might even be so tomorrow. But since people started claiming before we even knew

what

to claim, I'm really unsure on how to proceed at this point.

Some people just "assume" we'll do this everyday, while others think its a one day thing, and while others still don't actually completely agree on the terms that seem to have been pushed forward.

That being said, if everyone else claims what they dropped you can most likely guess what I dropped from what hasn't been claimed.

[Fritzler]

dear kintetic, please follow suit with ibby and i, and vote kilroy

tia

[Mariyta]

I agree as well, MoS and BM should be the next 2 to claim.

Agreed. I like how BM has clammed up since minor suspicion turned his way... And MoS... bad form.

As for voting,

Unvote, Vote Kilroy

. I looked back over a couple of his posts, and they smell. Especially the one where he claims to have been against claiming all along, but never said a word.

[Mastermind of Sin]

How am I clamming up? I've still been contributing what I can, and I'm still waiting for the mod to send me my list of items. I'll tell you now, I think I picked up 2 or 3 items. I can't remember offhand.

[IH]

........

[Mastermind of Sin]

.........

[mole]

Keep up the good work, JDodge.

Right now I believe Kinetic, and Kilroy should also be PMing the mod to find out what happened with his items, but I'll hold off on that until I see his explanation.

That's because I want to come back and vote for a bandwagoner. I remember voting for Albert for being on the Kscope wagon without knowing why we considered him suspicious, where did he go?

[Mariyta]

How am I clamming up? I've still been contributing what I can, and I'm still waiting for the mod to send me my list of items. I'll tell you now, I think I picked up 2 or 3 items. I can't remember offhand.

I said BM was clamming up, not you. But I can see how that could have been misread. Anyway, why don't you look in your sent items to see what you asked for...

[Kinetic]

Right now I believe Kinetic, and Kilroy should also be PMing the mod to find out what happened with his items, but I'll hold off on that until I see his explanation.

Why would I PM the mod to find out what happened to MOS's items?

[ibaesha]

I think mole is saying that he believes you, Kinetic.
And separately he believes that Kilroy should PM the mod to find out what happened with his (not MoS's) items.

[ibaesha]

To address your earlier post though, Kinetic:

Fair enough. I probably didn't read the second post you made regarding claims thoroughly enough at the time. I didn't recall you being in such opposition as that, but more questioning what was to be claimed. I didn't really get your issues against the mass item claim until your third post, which came later. And I think you didn't really receive any 'help' in opposition against the claim because either people were: For the claim, didn't voice an opinion either way, or didn't really have a strong grasp of what the dangers could be (like myself).

As for the main point you bring up: People being killed by scum to gain their items. I suppose to me it doesn't seem like a huge danger, because scum are going to kill people regardless (barring roleblocks, protections, etc). What scum kill people over; whether it be items, or powerrole tells, people being onto them, someone being dangerous as town, or whatever tickles their fancy, is fairly difficult to guess at.

In addition, from looking at my own list of items that I need to gather, I think it would be somewhat difficult (at least early on) for scum to narrow it down to one individual or store that they want items from. (I don't think I could even figure out what stores the items I need would be in)

I'm assuming that there's a scum group and that each person in that group has a diverse list they need to gather. Because of this, I think it more likely at this point that scum would kill based on the other things scum usually kill over. That said, if scum were to kill people over items, I'd be more concerned about them nailing town power roles in the process than anything else.

I believe the entire goal of the mass item claim was to attempt to catch scum lying about items. I'm not sure that it's entirely served its purpose, however. And in fact, what I've seen is more confusion and derailment from actually looking for suspicious behavior. If anything, that is the true problem with the mass item claim right now. That was not something that could be seen until we went through the process though.

The thing is, now that we've gone this far, I'm skeptical of the people who have yet to claim anything at all and also have not voiced an opposition to claiming. It makes me believe they have something to hide. Therefore, we should at least finish it today and revisit the entire claiming argument tomorrow before anyone starts claiming again.

MoS: I'm finding it difficult to believe you 'forgot' what you picked up. Like Mari said, look in your sent PMs if you can't remember. You were the instigator of this entire thing and if anyone should have their shit together when it comes to the claiming process, it's you. You had some 'trap' planned out, but have yet to come forward with what was in your head at the time. I think a lot of people took your idea at face value (like myself) and trusted you to follow through. I haven't really seen that. Like I said before, if you're going to lead the town down a path, then do so. Both Mari and I have made lists, but yet you haven't so you can't say that no one attempted to help organize it because at least two of us have. It's time for you to step up and do what you said when you initiated it. Or at least explain why it didn't work out as you thought if it hasn't.

[Kilroy8675309]

I should find out what happened with my items? As far as I know, I have the Survivor DVD... I suppose I'll ask again, though.

[Battle Mage]

Let's see who's on this list... OMFG MOS AND BM are there!!!11!!!111!!one

Look, the two players so adamantly pushing the item claim,

even though, like, the rest of the town did

havn't claimed. No, No one's scum alarms are going off.

Something is up. And if I'm the only one who notices it, something is definitely wrong.

I agree 100%. I think MOS and BM should claim before anyone else does.

err. I never supported everyone item claiming. In fact, i directly opposed the mass-item claim, once we had gleaned sufficient information from a few claims. The reason i opposed further claims, was simply because, i downright refuse to claim myself.
Suffice to say, you can work out what i have from the rest of the claims.

Also

Vote: Fritz

he knows why.

[Fritzler]

Also

Vote: Fritz

he knows why.

no i don't

[Battle Mage]

Also

Vote: Fritz

he knows why.

no i don't

ok let me do a timeline for you:

Someone (IH perhaps) suggests that we claim the items which we need to complete our role pm thing.

I say that i need the Survivor DVD to complete mine.

You then come along, and not only make a deliberate attempt to get that DVD from Kilroy, but also attempt to lynch him, in an aim to cost everyone that item.

BM

[Fritzler]

Also

Vote: Fritz

he knows why.

no i don't

ok let me do a timeline for you:

Someone (IH perhaps) suggests that we claim the items which we need to complete our role pm thing.

I say that i need the Survivor DVD to complete mine.

You then come along, and not only make a deliberate attempt to get that DVD from Kilroy, but also attempt to lynch him, in an aim to cost everyone that item.

BM

i figured one of us could get the item if he died

[Mariyta]

Let's see who's on this list... OMFG MOS AND BM are there!!!11!!!111!!one

Look, the two players so adamantly pushing the item claim,

even though, like, the rest of the town did

havn't claimed. No, No one's scum alarms are going off.

Something is up. And if I'm the only one who notices it, something is definitely wrong.

I agree 100%. I think MOS and BM should claim before anyone else does.

err. I never supported everyone item claiming. In fact, i directly opposed the mass-item claim, once we had gleaned sufficient information from a few claims. The reason i opposed further claims, was simply because, i downright refuse to claim myself.
Suffice to say, you can work out what i have from the rest of the claims.

Also

Vote: Fritz

he knows why.

Unvote, Vote BM

I don't think I even need to explain this one...

[Battle Mage]

Also

Vote: Fritz

he knows why.

no i don't

ok let me do a timeline for you:

Someone (IH perhaps) suggests that we claim the items which we need to complete our role pm thing.

I say that i need the Survivor DVD to complete mine.

You then come along, and not only make a deliberate attempt to get that DVD from Kilroy, but also attempt to lynch him, in an aim to cost everyone that item.

BM

i figured one of us could get the item if he died

is that how it works?


@Mariyta-you should know by now that you should always explain your actions-especially if there is no obvious reason behind them-as is often true of you.

BM

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

:: goodposting by Mariyta ::