Mafia 64: The New "C9" - Game over!

[MrBuddyLee]

This is not a coincidence. I've felt that the two of them have been working together for some time.

But they're not. It's possible TCS is taking shelter, however.

[MrBuddyLee]

Here's MoS's big analysis post. Three of these are people he's scum with--see if you can sniff out the phony "i know he's my scumpartner but i'll feign ignorance" from the genuinely uncertain "this dood could be town or SK":

So, here is the result of my crazy ramblings to myself as I read the last 24 pages of the thread:

first, the people who he DEFINITELY didn't know alignments for:

MBL is lurking, this is not usual play for him, not sure what to make of it, though. Pops up out of nowhere to say YB made a scummy post, doesn't explain why it's scummy, then disappears for several pages, not responding to people's comments towards him. Still has not explained Glork's early questions about the SV kill remark. I don't understand his eventual explanation of that remark, and he gives no reasons for his suspicions. MBL makes a bad conclusion about BT parroting people, when it's obvious he was stating his opinions on the discussion and trying to get answers about people's actions. Wow, every post MBL makes seems scummier than the last...MBL is really pushing overly hard on TCS regarding the townie claim from Albert, I think he's scum that latched onto something to try and start pushing a bandwagon against TCS eventually. MBL seems to be *trying* to make Glork look scummy in [538]. There is no reason for a scum Glork to have *forgotten* that reason while a protown Glork would remember. It is completely understandable that Glork wouldn't mention that on accident. MBL is trying to make a molehill out of an ant farm.

melodramatic attack on someone he thinks could be SK

Guardian is hard to read, but I don't think he's being very helpful. I completely disagree that Glork is being overdevensive, and I don't see why he thinks YB is town. guardian agrees with MBL's bad case against TCS, not looking good for him. Keeps changing his position on BM, not making a lot of sense here. I think Guardian changed his tune about Glork's reaction to BM attacking Guardian early because of the pressure from Yos. Why did Guardian say there was nothing to comment on? There has been plenty to comment on...

seems curious about guardian's alignment

johhan isn't being helpful...hmm, 15 pages later, and still not helpful...is this ever going to change?

no read, note no comment on scum or protown

HackerHuck is making solid comments, he's most likely protown

proportional statement on an unknown to him

AE has made some solid attacks, even if I don't agree with all of them. She at least seems sincere.

proportional comments

HungryJoe = somewhat scummy, glork makes good points against him

proportional attack on a genuine unknown to mos

Albert B. Rampage = neutral, leaning protown, not the greatest play so far, though, WHOA. Why does he want a claim from someone he doesn't even think is worth lynching yet? WTF is wrong with him, he's soooo scummy now. Why is he defaulting to more experienced players? What if those experienced players he is relying on are scum? Giving your own opinions are important, because you don't know who to trust...unless you are scum...

melodramatic attack on someone who could have been SK

Glork is acting fairly protown, gets better as the game goes on, making good points about a lot of players, very impressed by his analysis' so far. Still feeling good about him, yay!

suckup, he's pleased that glork's off the trail

Then, his scumpartner:

BBB = protown, new player, but making decent comments on the game so far, why is BBB rolefishing by speculating someone might be the cop?

known scumpartner, these are fairly cautious, unexaggerated remarks

Then, our wildcards--which is he genuinely uncertain about? Is he protecting a godfather?

BM is being more dense than usual. It's getting progressively worse, too. As per usual, he is assuming that anyone who would

dare

vote him is probably scum. Also, giving up and asking to be lynched already is a change from the usual, he usually defends himself and attacks others pretty hard when he's under pressure. Probably scum. He's been lurking now for quite a few pages, wtf?

(mbl's note: nothing overtly fishy here. over-the-top busing?)

TCS = not helpful, switches opinion on BM with little reason, probably just normal, though. Hypocrit? yes. Scum? probably not.

unsubstantiated distinction, fishy, could be protecting GF, no suspicion of TCS as possible SK here implies maybe he knows he's mafia?

YogurtBandit = scummy for FoSing BM to fuel the wagon but not following through with a vote, changes stance fairly quickly, haven't seen him post in a while, either. With no content to go on besides lurking, he says that N9V could be a good play. The whole post regarding N9V seems like scum trying to play it safe and not be too aggressive, while keeping their options open. Attacks TCS for acting normal...but that's understandable if he doesn't know TCS' playstyle, but why just randomly do a PBPA on Day 1? Seems like he's just trying to *seem* helpful. Says MBL doesn't seem scummy at all, wtf? Protecting scumbuddies much? Backtracks on reason for doing the PBPA, trying to appease those attacking him. Way overreacts to TCS saying Guardian/Yogurt's response to TCS' scummy play was scummy [516]. Yogurt's [561] is completely wrong, it's more like "if they do X we can figure out if they're scum, but if they don't do X we lynch them for avoiding letting us figure them out".

drawing attention to a relationship between himself and yogurt--would mos be this blatant? the only other three players he did a detailed analysis on were Albert, Guardian, MBL, none of which he was aligned with. Oh, and BM to a lesser extent.

Jack = neutral, good vote on YB, I disagree with his arguments, but I think he's being genuine, short posts are not helpful. Now that I think of it though, Jack's play is reminding me of his play in MAD mafia, where he was scum and made short posts to seem like he was contributing but lurked under the radar the whole time. However, he's been a *little* more proactice this game, so I'm not sure yet. Feeling better about Jack now

fencesitting, could be protection

BillyTwilight = protown, good points against YB

proportional response, no read

Yos defends BM's bad play, not seeing why he thinks BM's logic was any good, because it really wasn't. Really gungho attack on Glork, not seeing this at all.

fails to give a conclusion, a la johann above

inhim seems protown, but not enough posts to tell yet. Coron's lurking doesn't help him, but I can forgive him that.

curious caveat... protown but can't tell yet? fishy.

Coron = WHOA. He's in this game? this is like the first post I've seen of his, and it's like... page 9...wtf, BAD CORON

no read (inHim)

Shteven seems like he's just riding the wave, not protown, makes a bad point about townie claims, just wants to sit on the Albert wagon. Defending Jack's bad play, scumbuddies perhaps? Starting to seem more protown around page 16

seems genuinely uncertain

* One of Shteven, Twilight, Jack, Yogurt, BM are his fellow goon. His analysis of Yogurt/BM would be busing, of Shteven and Jack would be fencesitting. Or he's ignoring Twilight.
* Only says + and - things about five people: Albert(town), bbb(scum), TCS, Jack, Shteven.
* He attacks BM, YB. Would he bus a godfather right off the bat?
* Calls BM's play "bad" not "scummy"... indicative of a non-scumpair MoS-BM?
* If we assume MoS is going to find at least ONE of his three scumpartners scummy so as not to give them away, then one of {BM, YB, Yos} is mafia--only three he doesnt say are protown.
* Finds BM the scummiest by far, followed by MBL, YB, HJ. Read MoS isolated: he COMPLETELY drops BM and moves YB and MBL to the top of his list. Protection of BM or busing of Yogurt? Tough call.

[Shteven]

This is not a coincidence. I've felt that the two of them have been working together for some time.

But they're not. It's possible TCS is taking shelter, however.

Aye. I should probably get around to posting a summary of the game, but basically manaspryte's protection of Glork threw a wrench into my read on Glork. This was more historical, and I still am a bit uneasy, but protection's protection, and it's hard to argue against that.

[White]

Any specific reason you're putting Yogurt/Rogueben so low on both lists, White?

Honestly I didn't know where to put him. I find him scummy but I find the others are more scummy. Pretty much all the people in the bracketed section (which the format messed up) are semi-interchangeable.

[quote"Shteven"]I'm sure you'll get around to it, but what makes you think I'm likely mafia/sk?[/quote]
Most of your posts haven't struck me as genuine. They seem faked and off to a degree. I don't generally agree with many of your points and though that doesn't make you scum it certainly doesn't strike me as town. However that's a null-tell so I don't put much weight in it. Your whole big dispute with Glork earlier in the game seemed pushed to a higher priority than I would've expected and I don't see you putting as much effort into finding scum as i'd hope with substancially little to show for sk hunting.

White: You list TCS/Myself as top two for mafia. Do you really think I'd be trying to bus my partner at this stage of the game? Especially when I'm far from being cleared myself. Or are we just likely to be mafia ourselves and not linked?

I have no idea what you may or may not be trying to do (pertaining to bussing at this stage of the game). It's entirely possible that you may indeed be attempting to bus TCS and clear your name as best you can for the endgame. Even if you drop the case against TCS now and we end up lynching him or the sk gets him and he turns up scum, you'd look nice and pretty because you went after him for a while today.

I don't know if you're linked. Honestly this whole game daunts me tremendously. With MBL and Yos and Glork, i'm way out of my league. Also while I was reading it seemed that most of you have played bad this game at one point of another. Which further confuses my little weak attempts at sorting out who's scum. Who's the sk. Who's town. I am having quite a bit of trouble coming up with arguments of my own but i'm trying. Generally I agree with much of what Glork has said but not all, definitely not all.

If you and TCS are both mafia together I wouldn't be surprised. But i'd be very surprised if neither of you are mafia. I would vote for either one of you today except for the fact that I think we'll be better off if we can lynch the sk today. 1 less nk means we've got more time to find scum.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I see a lot of momentum building for a lynch of me, which I suppose isn't a bad idea from a certain perspective. However, I haven't seen a lot of votes, which makes me very, very suspicious of those who are tentative about voting me when in their accusations they all but condemn me.

When I turn up town, either by lynch or death, I hope you all take a good long look at those who are pushing my lynch but not willing to openly advocate it. Those people know I'm town.

And on that note,

Vote: Shteven

.

I would prefer to lay the hammer, for my own reasons, but until his wagon builds you know where I stand.

[White]

I thought you wanted to hammer MBL?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

And I thought you were town, until Post 2578.

Your subtle bussing of Shteven is written all over your pixels.

But hey, if you want to mislynch me first, and you can convince the rest of the town better than I can, by all means do as you must.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

MBL is still the SK, in my opinion, and you and Shteven are probably mafia. Maybe it's OMGUS, but it's my opinion. You trying to link me (a townie) with someone who has a pretty decent chance of being scum is a tactic that I use. If you bus your buddy, you have an easier path to lynching me tomorrow, and if you lynch me, you look like an idiot but your buddy is pure as new-fallen snow.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

White is the Godfather and Shteven is the goon. Roll it up, smoke it, and enjoy.

[MrBuddyLee]

I thought you wanted to hammer MBL?

Your disappointment is palpable, scumbag.

[White]

Just pointing out an inconsistency. Seems we've got some people that are overanxious.

I previously stated i've got no problem lynching Shteven or TCS however I expressly said I wanted to lynch MBL first as I believe 1 less nk is better for the town. However if it looks like MBL isn't going to get lynched then i'll take either TCS or Shteven. I think we've got atleast 2/3 scum in those three.

Your disappointment is palpable, scumbag.

There is no disappointment in there. Except for possibly the fact that it seems it's harder and harder to lynch you and you're the sk. I have said I want the sk dead before and again. If you think this is because i'm mafia then so be it, be mislead. I however do not want to be deterred.

[Shteven]

I see a lot of momentum building for a lynch of me, which I suppose isn't a bad idea from a certain perspective. However, I haven't seen a lot of votes, which makes me very, very suspicious of those who are tentative about voting me when in their accusations they all but condemn me.

When I turn up town, either by lynch or death, I hope you all take a good long look at those who are pushing my lynch but not willing to openly advocate it. Those people know I'm town.

And on that note,

Vote: Shteven.

I would prefer to lay the hammer, for my own reasons, but until his wagon builds you know where I stand.

Two things:

1) Thanks for finally voting someone. You happen to have gotten the wrong person, but that's your choice, not mine

2) At first glance, this looks like the first vote you've cast all game that actually has reasoning behind it....But...it's all misdirection. Your reasoning is solid, but you voted the wrong person. Your text is entirely about people who are attacking you without voting, yet I've been voting you for many days and have tried to call for additional voting. So why call out the non-voters, and then vote for an (attempted) wagon leader?

Reread his post. Ask yourself if the text of the post has any connection to his placed vote.

[Kinetic]

Vote:White

FOS:TCS

FOS:MBL

I really thought Jack might be scum, but so far nothing White has done has made me think otherwise. In fact, I'm even more convinced now.

I still think MBL is scum, something keeps nagging me, but my big three still remain the same on who I think are scummy.

[White]

Anything I can do to refute?

[Yosarian2]

I see a lot of momentum building for a lynch of me, which I suppose isn't a bad idea from a certain perspective. However, I haven't seen a lot of votes, which makes me very, very suspicious of those who are tentative about voting me when in their accusations they all but condemn me.

When I turn up town, either by lynch or death, I hope you all take a good long look at those who are pushing my lynch but not willing to openly advocate it. Those people know I'm town.

And on that note,

Vote: Shteven.

I would prefer to lay the hammer, for my own reasons, but until his wagon builds you know where I stand.

Two things:

1) Thanks for finally voting someone. You happen to have gotten the wrong person, but that's your choice, not mine

2) At first glance, this looks like the first vote you've cast all game that actually has reasoning behind it....But...it's all misdirection. Your reasoning is solid, but you voted the wrong person. Your text is entirely about people who are attacking you without voting, yet I've been voting you for many days and have tried to call for additional voting. So why call out the non-voters, and then vote for an (attempted) wagon leader?

Reread his post. Ask yourself if the text of the post has any connection to his placed vote.

You make a reasonable point here, Shteven.

One question; if you think TCS is the Godfather (it sounds like that's what you're accusing him of), who do you think is his likely goon-partner?

[MrBuddyLee]

i'm way out of my league. Also while I was reading it seemed that most of you have played bad this game at one point of another. Which further confuses my little weak attempts at sorting out who's scum.

It's possible to hunt scum with complicated arguments and formulas and metagames on other players, but to be honest, the tried and true method is just to speak open and honestly about your views. And to pay attention to other people's tone and see if they sound genuine or not.

You're not out of your league--just settle in, read between the lines and catch scum. Even if you're scum yourself, you'll still be pleased with yourself end of game if you nailed one by "listening" carefully.

And playing bad (as a scumhunter) usually equates to one of a few things:

* Closed-mindedness
* Laziness
* Underconfidence

You've got nothing to lose, so dive into the game and start pulling up some crap.

[White]

Alrighty, then let's see what I can find.
Starting back at page 100. (no i'm not going to go through this whole thread, that's....too much, absurd, timely and tedious. Besides, half the people are dead now)

We could get rolling a lot quicker if he'd just agree to blindly follow your lead.

I'm not sure what the point of this is. Are you trying to add pointless fluff? Are you seriously suggesting he blindly follow Glork and lynch you? It just looks like angry spewing and I think you're better than that.

the only time I start to really wonder if it's a good idea is if we're talking about someone who could only be one out of the three, like InHim's replacement

I'm not sure here but why exactly are you handing off a confirmed non sk to someone that's obviously not confirmed? Could you point out what I seem to have missed? (I do admit to reading the thread somewhat hastily but I really resist rereading it)

I have presented what I feel about him, and I never said I think he's the godfather. I think he might be the godfather or SK

Whoa wait a sec. You say you never said you think he's the GF and then you state you think he might be the GF in the next sentence? Something's not right with that.

Even if you're right and the scum don't think you're the SK, that dosn't prove anything

Honestly this bit where Yos is responding to your point (MBL) about scum not jumping on your wagon because they don't think you're the sk doesn't really matter. You assume the scum wouldn't press for an easy lynch which is fatally flawed. Scum can and will do the most outlandish things, even act like newbs while being very experienced. That you (MBL) even discredit and ignore this is a point against you.

And if my selection falls on a non-goon, that's just fine by me.

Ping. You don't care if we lynch one of the few remaining town? Have you not been paying attention to the statistics? If we lynch one of our own today we are in almost lylo tomorrow esp if the scum don't cross kill. How can you honestly say this if you're town?

[Glork] pretty much cannot be Kinetic's scumpartner.

Why? Because he's very suspicious of Kinetic? Because he's not suspicious of Kinetic? I don't see your point. I don't like how you're passing off an "almost confirmed" statement when no such thing exists.

I'm going to look closely about how committed you have been to a lynch thus far today, and if I see a lot of wishy-washy stuff, I'm voting you.(refering to Shteven)

Well TCS, you've got a vote on him now, mind sharing where Shteven is being wishy-washy?

It would not be in the best interests of the town at this point to lynch me. However, if you're looking for a player to night kill, it'd probably be in the best interests of scum to rid themselves of me.

I think this was brought up before but TCS, if you're just a townie why is it in the best interests of the town to not get rid of you even though we would learn quite a bit of information from your death and alignment revelation. Why would it be in the best interest of scum to night kill you when you attract plenty of suspicion as it is?

That's up through post 2520 but as it's now 10pm i've gotta head to bed so i'll be refreshed for school in the morning.

[Kinetic]

I have presented what I feel about him, and I never said I think he's the godfather. I think he might be the godfather or SK

Whoa wait a sec. You say you never said you think he's the GF and then you state you think he might be the GF in the next sentence? Something's not right with that.

What's wrong with it?

I stated that in response to someone (I think MBL) accusing me of saying something I didn't say. I then decided to clear up my intentions by saying what I was thinking so there was no doubt.

[Shteven]

And if my selection falls on a non-goon, that's just fine by me.

Ping. You don't care if we lynch one of the few remaining town? Have you not been paying attention to the statistics? If we lynch one of our own today we are in almost lylo tomorrow esp if the scum don't cross kill. How can you honestly say this if you're town?

I meant that I have no trouble lynching an investigated innocent if we believe they are the godfather or the SK. If TCS should come up town, I would be very disappointed, but I am confident that he'll come up Godfather/SK. So I am not concerned about finding the goon today. If we got the goon somehow (ie, not on TCS) then I'd certainly be happy; but the SK is a higher priority. After that, the godfather is second. The goon is the least threat; although he may be easier to find.


As far as kinetic's post above, I think the simpliest way to put it is that he didn't think he was exclusively the godfather, that he could be the godfather or the SK.

[MrBuddyLee]

[Glork] pretty much cannot be Kinetic's scumpartner.

Why? Because he's very suspicious of Kinetic? Because he's not suspicious of Kinetic? I don't see your point. I don't like how you're passing off an "almost confirmed" statement when no such thing exists.

Because a doctor protected Glork from a kill by mafia. Therefore Glork is not mafia, because he wouldn't agree to try and kill himself.

The only two ways Glork could be mafia:

1) His scumpartner sent in a NK to kill him.
2) His scumteam sent in a no-kill night 3 and got lucky that Glork happened to be the player doc protected.

[Kinetic]

And if my selection falls on a non-goon, that's just fine by me.

Ping. You don't care if we lynch one of the few remaining town? Have you not been paying attention to the statistics? If we lynch one of our own today we are in almost lylo tomorrow esp if the scum don't cross kill. How can you honestly say this if you're town?

I meant that I have no trouble lynching an investigated innocent if we believe they are the godfather or the SK. If TCS should come up town, I would be very disappointed, but I am confident that he'll come up Godfather/SK. So I am not concerned about finding the goon today. If we got the goon somehow (ie, not on TCS) then I'd certainly be happy; but the SK is a higher priority. After that, the godfather is second. The goon is the least threat; although he may be easier to find.


As far as kinetic's post above, I think the simpliest way to put it is that he didn't think he was exclusively the godfather, that he could be the godfather or the SK.

Umm White wrote that, not me. I was like "When did I right something like that? ... I don't say Ping...."

[Yosarian2]

the only time I start to really wonder if it's a good idea is if we're talking about someone who could only be one out of the three, like InHim's replacement

I'm not sure here but why exactly are you handing off a confirmed non sk to someone that's obviously not confirmed? Could you point out what I seem to have missed? (I do admit to reading the thread somewhat hastily but I really resist rereading it)

...I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here. Could you clarify, please?

Even if you're right and the scum don't think you're the SK, that dosn't prove anything

Honestly this bit where Yos is responding to your point (MBL) about scum not jumping on your wagon because they don't think you're the sk doesn't really matter. You assume the scum wouldn't press for an easy lynch which is fatally flawed. Scum can and will do the most outlandish things, even act like newbs while being very experienced. That you (MBL) even discredit and ignore this is a point against you.

Again, huh? We weren't talking about the scum not lynching MBL or whatever. MBL was saying that the scum don't think he was the SK or they would would have killed him, and I pointed out that that's a rather silly defense for him to make, because the mafia don't have any better idea who the SK is then we do.

So, what are you talking about when you say "the scum won't push for an easy lynch" or whatever? Sure the mafia at this point would be happy with any non-mafia being lynched, and they'd probably be quite happy if the SK was lynched. What's your point?

[Rogueben]

Sorry guys I've got a big festival on this week and I'm keeping up with the reading but I'm just finding it hard to do much solid analysis so while I'll try and get something concrete in the next couple of days please be patient.

[White]

What's wrong with it?

It just seemed odd to me that you'd say something like, "I've never said I think Glork is scumm. I think Glork is scummy....".

...I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here. Could you clarify, please?

I don't understand why you think InHim's replacement can't be the sk. Just because he was investigated, simply means he's not the goon but he sure could indeed be the SK. I don't understand why you think otherwise.

Again, huh? We weren't talking about the scum not lynching MBL or whatever.

In fact, scum would probably rather lynch the SK than me right now, which is one reason why my wagon's not rocketing into the stratosphere.

Even if you're right and the scum don't think you're the SK, that dosn't prove anything

Yes you were. Hence my statement.

[Yosarian2]

I don't understand why you think InHim's replacement can't be the sk. Just because he was investigated, simply means he's not the goon but he sure could indeed be the SK. I don't understand why you think otherwise.

Ok. It has to do with the fact that InHim vanished on Augest 27'th, that he was not replaced until after the next day started; meanwhile, the SK sent in a kill during the night, sometime between September 1 and September 4. I mean, it's certanly possible InHim did send it in, but if he had sent it in on september 3rd or sometiing, would he have been replaced on september 7th? It's nothing solid, not absolulte proof or anything, but I think it's unlikely he's the SK because of that.

Again, huh? We weren't talking about the scum not lynching MBL or whatever.

In fact, scum would probably rather lynch the SK than me right now, which is one reason why my wagon's not rocketing into the stratosphere.

Even if you're right and the scum don't think you're the SK, that dosn't prove anything

Yes you were. Hence my statement.

[/quote]

Ok. Well, MBL was trying to claim that the fact he wasn't being lynched proved that the scum thought he was town. It was quite a silly defense for a number of reasons; I just pointed out the most obveous one, which is that the mafia don't have any wy of knowing who the SK is any better then the rest of us do.