⭐ Blitz 20 — How To Be Normal [Game Over]

[Marquis]

[this will no longer be a VC as the new page was reached before editing]

[Some Random Mafia Player]

Are you scum reading her?

I guess you could say that, I see 2 naked readlists, and thats about it. Everything else was about the dayvig or their meta

2 naked readlists with no reasoning is nothing to have a strong townread over, and I dont see why you think otherwise.

[Almost50]

2 naked readlists with no reasoning is nothing to have a strong townread over, and I dont see why you think otherwise.

Fair enough, I guess. I do understand how you feel bc that's how it felt -more or less so- in my previous game with her.

Then again, that is not a good enough case to convince anyone to vote her, is it? I mean, if it only goes down to gut feeling and/or not liking her posting style then we will have to agree to disagree.

Here's why (but it's not directly related to this game, hence the spoiler)

Spoiler:

I have only 2 completed games on this site. At first I found it very odd and somewhat irritating for someone to give naked reads or -even worse- place a naked vote. However, I can give you a list of players who consistently do that on this site, and it was acquired through just 2 games. SnarkySnowman, RadiantCowbells, GoodMorning, Wednesday, Ranger are just some of them. Now with the exception of Wednesday -who was a 3rd party yet "sort of" town aligned- all other 4 flipped town. RC was on both games and was town on both. That's how my view of such behaviour changed from considering it scummy on its own to a null tell in general. However, if any of those fore-mentioned does it and there's nothing else in their play that would make me suspicious I get to town read them bc that's their meta. Now I have yet to play with someone who does this who flipped scum or a potentially harmful 3rd party.

I hope this makes sense. 5 players, 6 occasions, all play the obscure/cryptic way, and all town aligned vs none playing this way and flipping scum.

[Some Random Mafia Player]

2 naked readlists with no reasoning is nothing to have a strong townread over, and I dont see why you think otherwise.

Fair enough, I guess. I do understand how you feel bc that's how it felt -more or less so- in my previous game with her.

Then again, that is not a good enough case to convince anyone to vote her, is it? I mean, if it only goes down to gut feeling and/or not liking her posting style then we will have to agree to disagree.

Here's why (but it's not directly related to this game, hence the spoiler)

Spoiler:

I have only 2 completed games on this site. At first I found it very odd and somewhat irritating for someone to give naked reads or -even worse- place a naked vote. However, I can give you a list of players who consistently do that on this site, and it was acquired through just 2 games. SnarkySnowman, RadiantCowbells, GoodMorning, Wednesday, Ranger are just some of them. Now with the exception of Wednesday -who was a 3rd party yet "sort of" town aligned- all other 4 flipped town. RC was on both games and was town on both. That's how my view of such behaviour changed from considering it scummy on its own to a null tell in general. However, if any of those fore-mentioned does it and there's nothing else in their play that would make me suspicious I get to town read them bc that's their meta. Now I have yet to play with someone who does this who flipped scum or a potentially harmful 3rd party.

I hope this makes sense. 5 players, 6 occasions, all play the obscure/cryptic way, and all town aligned vs none playing this way and flipping scum.

From what I understand, you read ranger as town because they post naked read lists as town. So you are trying to tell me doing something scummy is a town move? They are easy to fake (and they make it look like their doing something productive, which they arent, they are actually just posting names.)

[Some Random Mafia Player]

the most credit I would give them is null, I wouldent call them town because I see nothing townie or even very related to the game tbh.

[Almost50]

OK.. so let's just say "null leaning town" for me, "null leaning scum" for you, and pending more posts from her on both cases. Does this work for you?

[Marquis]

REPLACEMENT.

Nosferatu

replaces KTthecreeper. (This was originally their slot. Thanks for coming back to us!)

On mobile and will update VC/first post when home in an hour or two.

[Some Random Mafia Player]

OK.. so let's just say "null leaning town" for me, "null leaning scum" for you, and pending more posts from her on both cases. Does this work for you?

its not null leaning scum tbh, its just straight up scum. They contributed nothing through 8+ pages. Gonna place my vote as clearly im not putting my vote anywhere else.

VOTE: Ranger

post something helpful to finding scum, naked read lists that dont explain anything arent helpful.

[Nosferatu]

yo, reading up

[Nosferatu]

{3dice, RadiantCowbells}
{Almost50, TheBuldge, pisskop}
{droog, Spiffeh}
{davesaz, KTthecreeper}
{Some Random Mafia Player, Xtoxm}
{GuiltyLion}

why

I think I have reached the correct conclusion here.

So we have 3 factions in this game. Mafia is unable to shoot at RC because mafia dayvig isn't normal.

That leaves town and sk. RC claimed PGO, so if you consider that, a town player has absolutely no reason to vig RC. If they do, they not only risk hitting town, but they risk getting themselves killed.

That leaves only sk. What I think about the sk is this: If they have bulletproof, then it makes sense that they might take the shot at RC, since it would mean no harm to them. RC is also a strong player in general.

This leads me to believe the sk has at least one dayvig shot, and has bulletproof.

sk dayvig isn't normal either. Bulletproof doesn't make sense because PGO only activates at night.

@3dicerolling: That's some perfect analysis and conclusion. I very much like you vote target too. Here's your reward:

VOTE: 3dicerolling

My "skewed manner of thought" was an obvious joke, but it obviously did harvest something. Now you can go on and call it OMGUS or whatever, but I can't see one reason for you to vote me except me "jokingly" pointing a finger at you and -inadvertently- hitting the bull's eye.

buddiying person who states obviously wrong information

Also, why are we assuming it was a SK vig? Are those normal either?

questioning wrong information. Either actually is unsure or sees this information and wants to lowkey discredit.

VOTE: Almost50

FoS: srmp

not done making comments on everything, but I've skimmed through.

[Some Random Mafia Player]

{3dice, RadiantCowbells}
{Almost50, TheBuldge, pisskop}
{droog, Spiffeh}
{davesaz, KTthecreeper}
{Some Random Mafia Player, Xtoxm}
{GuiltyLion}

why

I think I have reached the correct conclusion here.

So we have 3 factions in this game. Mafia is unable to shoot at RC because mafia dayvig isn't normal.

That leaves town and sk. RC claimed PGO, so if you consider that, a town player has absolutely no reason to vig RC. If they do, they not only risk hitting town, but they risk getting themselves killed.

That leaves only sk. What I think about the sk is this: If they have bulletproof, then it makes sense that they might take the shot at RC, since it would mean no harm to them. RC is also a strong player in general.

This leads me to believe the sk has at least one dayvig shot, and has bulletproof.

sk dayvig isn't normal either. Bulletproof doesn't make sense because PGO only activates at night.

@3dicerolling: That's some perfect analysis and conclusion. I very much like you vote target too. Here's your reward:

VOTE: 3dicerolling

My "skewed manner of thought" was an obvious joke, but it obviously did harvest something. Now you can go on and call it OMGUS or whatever, but I can't see one reason for you to vote me except me "jokingly" pointing a finger at you and -inadvertently- hitting the bull's eye.

buddiying person who states obviously wrong information

Also, why are we assuming it was a SK vig? Are those normal either?

questioning wrong information. Either actually is unsure or sees this information and wants to lowkey discredit.

VOTE: Almost50

FoS: srmp

not done making comments on everything, but I've skimmed through.

im actually unsure, its not stated anywhere if sk dayvig is normal or not. Besides, I have been here 2 weeks, I wouldent know how to figure it out yet.

[Marquis]

Three players are going to be prodded if they don't post in 20 minutes. Pick it up, please :frowny:

[pisskop]

Radiant Cowbells

[Some Random Mafia Player]

Radiant Cowbells

>you knew they werent in the game

FoS pisskop

I have no reason why to vote for the dead confirmed player (who you knew was dead) but im gonna be safe and assume its a scum move.

[Nosferatu]

Spoiler: worthless stuff I really didn't need to read

Pretty surprised at scum reads on me but it seems universal so okay I guess, must have made a bad impression.

pisskop i'm not sure what you want addressed but here goes. You mentioned it was opportunistic. This was because it was the 3rd vote? I actually didn't realise you had picked up 2 RVS votes. The statement itself - that you usually have a bigger impact - Well, most (possibly all) your games with me you have replaced in at a developed stage and immediately started spamming. I was aware of the difference, however that game was fairly stalled for a Blitz so I was just picking on something minor, mainly for reactions to help me get some reads and get the game moving. I guess it was successful in that respect, just not the way I had intended.

Spiffeh's concern:

Like the way he's emphasizing that it's a serious vote makes me think he wants everyone to know that he's contributing.

The emphasis was for pisskop to know it was serious and see if he reacted in a town way. By the time I made 73 I didn't feel pisskop had notably towned so I left it on. Since then, notably his reaction to the death, I actually do find pisskop town.

VOTE: unvote

Coming to the death, I think the bulletproof day-SK theory is the most likely. If it's a day-vig scum power in addition to a night kill ability then it's almost certainly a 1-shot thing and it would be a reckless waste to use such a power so early. pisskop you mentioned me using it as a distraction - I have more confidence in my play than that. And it clearly isn't an effective 'distraction' as my wagon has grown since it happened. I think it's more than safe to assume scum of some sort caused the death though, if it does turn out to have been a town day vig i'll be furious.

you think it's plausible but didn't bother to read the normal guidelines?

Reads.

Ranger - I have a mild scumread here. I feel she has been lot more chatty about things not related to scumhunting. She has posted a couple name lists, which is really easy to fake and on it's own does little for me. She has been very chatty about setup discussion, and made a fairly detailed response when I asked about other games, but has done very little in the way of actual scumhunting for the amount of posing she's done. I've not had a chance to look at the scumgames yet but i'm not expecting that to have a major impact on my read at this point in the game.

GuiltyLion i'm initially liking for town due to 40 and this comment:

Xtoxm wagon is better but I also feel like Xtoxm would have stronger scumplay than this

As the votes on my wagon go, Spiff and pisskop's feel like genuine scumreading. Droog and SRMP's don't strike me in the same way, and I think the reasoning SRMP gives for a 4th vote on my wagon is really poor.

In all, this is where i'm at:

Town reads (most of them mild)
GuiltyLion
davesaz
3dice
Spiffeh
pisskop

Not town reads
Some Random Mafia Player
droog
The Bulge
KTthecreeper
Almost50
Ranger

None of those lists are in any kind of order.

I can expand on any of the reads if people want.

go ahead an explain all of them. And give an introspective read on yourself. Be brief with everything except the last one.

comments in blue.

pedit: oh yeah, believe me, I noticed.

[GuiltyLion]

I have no reason why to vote for the dead confirmed player (who you knew was dead) but im gonna be safe and assume its a scum move.

this is terrible

"I don't know why you did this, therefore it's scum"

pisskop's post wasn't even a vote for RadiantCowbells

[Some Random Mafia Player]

I have no reason why to vote for the dead confirmed player (who you knew was dead) but im gonna be safe and assume its a scum move.

this is terrible

"I don't know why you did this, therefore it's scum"

pisskop's post wasn't even a vote for RadiantCowbells

I took it as one, because it was bolded, and IDK what to assume, what was it?

[Some Random Mafia Player]

Spoiler: worthless stuff I really didn't need to read

Pretty surprised at scum reads on me but it seems universal so okay I guess, must have made a bad impression.

pisskop i'm not sure what you want addressed but here goes. You mentioned it was opportunistic. This was because it was the 3rd vote? I actually didn't realise you had picked up 2 RVS votes. The statement itself - that you usually have a bigger impact - Well, most (possibly all) your games with me you have replaced in at a developed stage and immediately started spamming. I was aware of the difference, however that game was fairly stalled for a Blitz so I was just picking on something minor, mainly for reactions to help me get some reads and get the game moving. I guess it was successful in that respect, just not the way I had intended.

Spiffeh's concern:

Like the way he's emphasizing that it's a serious vote makes me think he wants everyone to know that he's contributing.

The emphasis was for pisskop to know it was serious and see if he reacted in a town way. By the time I made 73 I didn't feel pisskop had notably towned so I left it on. Since then, notably his reaction to the death, I actually do find pisskop town.

VOTE: unvote

Coming to the death, I think the bulletproof day-SK theory is the most likely. If it's a day-vig scum power in addition to a night kill ability then it's almost certainly a 1-shot thing and it would be a reckless waste to use such a power so early. pisskop you mentioned me using it as a distraction - I have more confidence in my play than that. And it clearly isn't an effective 'distraction' as my wagon has grown since it happened. I think it's more than safe to assume scum of some sort caused the death though, if it does turn out to have been a town day vig i'll be furious.

you think it's plausible but didn't bother to read the normal guidelines?

Reads.

Ranger - I have a mild scumread here. I feel she has been lot more chatty about things not related to scumhunting. She has posted a couple name lists, which is really easy to fake and on it's own does little for me. She has been very chatty about setup discussion, and made a fairly detailed response when I asked about other games, but has done very little in the way of actual scumhunting for the amount of posing she's done. I've not had a chance to look at the scumgames yet but i'm not expecting that to have a major impact on my read at this point in the game.

GuiltyLion i'm initially liking for town due to 40 and this comment:

Xtoxm wagon is better but I also feel like Xtoxm would have stronger scumplay than this

As the votes on my wagon go, Spiff and pisskop's feel like genuine scumreading. Droog and SRMP's don't strike me in the same way, and I think the reasoning SRMP gives for a 4th vote on my wagon is really poor.

In all, this is where i'm at:

Town reads (most of them mild)
GuiltyLion
davesaz
3dice
Spiffeh
pisskop

Not town reads
Some Random Mafia Player
droog
The Bulge
KTthecreeper
Almost50
Ranger

None of those lists are in any kind of order.

I can expand on any of the reads if people want.

go ahead an explain all of them. And give an introspective read on yourself. Be brief with everything except the last one.

comments in blue.

pedit: oh yeah, believe me, I noticed.

tbh if your gonna question Xtoxm on naked reads, ranger and 3dice did the same thing 5 pages earlier than him.

[Some Random Mafia Player]

I have no reason why to vote for the dead confirmed player (who you knew was dead) but im gonna be safe and assume its a scum move.

this is terrible

"I don't know why you did this, therefore it's scum"

pisskop's post wasn't even a vote for RadiantCowbells

eh, probably should have asked him what he was doing, jumped to conclusions too quickly

and tbh, if I dont know the motive for it, why should I assume it was a town motive when it may have (somehow) helped advance his scum agenda?

pisskop wtf were you doing.

[Nosferatu]

since some people might actually ask me how I know sk dayvig isn't normal:
[quote=mafiascum wiki]Roles which are explicitly Normal for Serial Killer only include:
Serial Killer, Investigation-Immune, Ninja, Strongman, any roles listed as "for any alignment"[/quote]
>but nos, it says "any roles listed as 'for any alignment'"
you'd still be wrong, because when you check roles listed as "for any alignment":
[quote=mafiascum wiki]Roles which are explicitly Normal for any alignment include:
Bodyguard, Commuter, Sane Cop, Doctor, Follower, Gunsmith, Jack of All Trades, Jailkeeper, Motion Detector, Neapolitan, Neighbor, Neighborizer, Roleblocker, Rolecop, Rolestopper, Tracker, Universal Backup, Vanilla Cop, Voyeur, Watcher[/quote]
notice the lack of a vigilante in this list.

pedit: protip: when you don't know the motive behind something, you ask.

[Nosferatu]

since some people might actually ask me how I know sk dayvig isn't normal:

Roles which are explicitly Normal for Serial Killer only include:
Serial Killer, Investigation-Immune, Ninja, Strongman, any roles listed as "for any alignment"

>but nos, it says "any roles listed as 'for any alignment'"
you'd still be wrong, because when you check roles listed as "for any alignment":

Roles which are explicitly Normal for any alignment include:
Bodyguard, Commuter, Sane Cop, Doctor, Follower, Gunsmith, Jack of All Trades, Jailkeeper, Motion Detector, Neapolitan, Neighbor, Neighborizer, Roleblocker, Rolecop, Rolestopper, Tracker, Universal Backup, Vanilla Cop, Voyeur, Watcher

notice the lack of a vigilante in this list.

pedit: protip: when you don't know the motive behind something, you ask.

fixed tags

[Some Random Mafia Player]

since some people might actually ask me how I know sk dayvig isn't normal:

Roles which are explicitly Normal for Serial Killer only include:
Serial Killer, Investigation-Immune, Ninja, Strongman, any roles listed as "for any alignment"

>but nos, it says "any roles listed as 'for any alignment'"
you'd still be wrong, because when you check roles listed as "for any alignment":

Roles which are explicitly Normal for any alignment include:
Bodyguard, Commuter, Sane Cop, Doctor, Follower, Gunsmith, Jack of All Trades, Jailkeeper, Motion Detector, Neapolitan, Neighbor, Neighborizer, Roleblocker, Rolecop, Rolestopper, Tracker, Universal Backup, Vanilla Cop, Voyeur, Watcher

notice the lack of a vigilante in this list.

pedit: protip: when you don't know the motive behind something, you ask.

I honestly never checked what roles were normal, as I never needed to know that until now.

[Some Random Mafia Player]

I blame formatting error, you can probably figure out what was already there and what I just wrote.

[GuiltyLion]

I don't know what to make of Almost50 defending his townread on Ranger

It's not at all a valid reason to townread someone but when reading his posts I get the sense that he genuinely believes in it.

I can't tell if that's because he knows she's town or because he's a newbie. I would like Ranger's thoughts if she has them.

Meanwhile, my scumvibes are back on SRMP, especially given how he's hedging immediately on his throwing shade on pisskop. I just don't feel like he's genuinely trying to solve the game. His accusations are always on the basis of people not posting or not being helpful, as opposed to doing something that legitimately appears scum-motivated.

And I also think voting a player who was replaced (160) is more likely to come from scum trying to find a comfortable spot to vote rather than a town player keeping tabs on players in the game. Although I'm a bit hesitant because I would expect cautious scum to catch that mistake before they post.

[pisskop]

wow.


Just wow.