California Trilogy - Dantès in Fresno (Game Over!)

[Mr. Grey]

Vote Count:

9 to lynch.

foolinc: 5 (Dragon Phoenix, Gaspar, LoudmouthLee, PookyTheMagicalBear, Talitha)
Mgm: 3 (logicticus, IH, Zindaras)
MrBuddyLee/Adele: 2 (Dani Banani, VitaminR)
Skruffs: 2 (Cogito Ergo Sum, Tamuz)
IH: 1 (Thesp)
logicticus: 1 (Mgm)
Tamuz: 1 (Skruffs)

Current Condorcet Winner:

foolinc

To view the complete table of pairwise results, put this information in this form.

Note:

I am treating "everyone else" as "every other person" - the "No Lynch" option is not included unless explicitly added. (However, something like "all other options" would include "No Lynch".)

[Gaspar]

(Glork.)

@Thesp,
i already gave my reasoning for bringing up the secret word... Mgm hit it right on the head when he said

He obviously had a secret word. It's quite hard to be the first to ask about them if you don't know they exist...

your attacks on me feel a little strained, almost like you're looking for a reason to make me look suspicious... i wouldn't be surprised if you're a lyncher w/ me as a target...

This looks bad to me.... the fact that you would come to the conclusion that Thesp is a lyncher with you as a target makes me think this is more OMGUS and less "you're scum reaching for an attack on another player."

Is there any reason you believe Thesp to be a lyncher specifically? Do you think his D1 play would indicate that such is the case?

In other news, I find the "how useful is nightkill analysis" debate to be surprisingly boring. (In recent past, I'd side with Zindaras that it's too unreliable to use properly, but I've shifted to a more "It really depends on the specific game situation, and neither "it's useful" or "it's useless" generalization is particularly accurate.) Point being, I'd rather be looking for scum than debating game theory.

That's the thing - I think you're lying about your reasoning for bringing up the secret word. I agree I think you have a secret word. Was I unclear on that point? Asking

in the way you did

makes a heck of a lot of sense if you're scum with a secret word, and afraid that other people might not have one - testing the waters to see what comes up.

If that's true, why test the waters? Keeping his mouth shut would be by far the safer option if he didn't know it was safe to talk about it. What if scum was the only one with secret words? Asking about it would make it suicide.

This is a much more reasonable defense than the "I think you're a lyncher" OMGUS that Dani provided.

...and then I find Thesp's response to be really bad. Now I think he

is

reaching. In fact, I would posit that the first person to bring up Secret Words would be more likely town, since they would theoretically be willing to discuss it with

ZERO

reservations about it getting them in trouble.


IH, I say this only because I think you're town and that you're playing really carelessly right now.

STOP GIVING INFORMATION TO THE SCUMS.

Your post 868 gave out information on two different accounts (that none of the non-counterclaimers are probably the real Count/Dantes), and that your role is a person from Fresno and not a character from the book.
For somebody who was so disgruntled with Skruffs spewing information at the start of the day, you seem to have just soft-claimed yourself. Tack on your theorizing about BM's death last night, and you've given more information about who you are/aren't. For the love of Pete,

think

before you post.

MrBuddyLee replaces Adele.

....oh boy. This ought to be interesting.

In the meantime, DP's continued active lurking (yes, I know people have real lives -- my limited access will be coming up starting next week) still disgruntles me.



No changes to my Condorcet because I'm lazy, but if I made a change, I'd just bump Thesp up a little bit.

[Dani Banani]

@Gaspar/Glork
not sure if you still wanted a response from me, seeing as you saw the reaching i was talking about, but i've only played w/ a lyncher role 2x that i can recall, and both of those were in RL @ Thespival... the first time, Thesp was the lyncher w/ me as the target, the 2nd time, Talitha was the lyncher w/ me as a target... Thesp's argument from this game reminds me of the subtle stretch to make someone look like scum that he used from Thespival... so, no, it's not OMGUS, it's based on experience... (too bad i can't see how's he's sitting, THAT would give it away)...

[Gaspar]

Okay, well that would change the validity of your argument. I didn't know that your response was based on experience with Thesp as a lyncher. I had concluded that it was "You're going after me hard, but you're wrong so you must be scum" which would indeed have been OMGUS.

[foolinc]

After taking the weekend of it's time to re-adjust my list:

Since I know am an innocent, I guess the best thing to do would be to look at the people voting for me and the also the other people up for lynching. Gaspar and LML pretty much started my bandwagon, but I think they were coming from the right place. DP, Pooky, and Talitha on the other hand seem to be perfectly fine with voting for me number one just because it's a bandwagon.

Mgm's play has been HIGHLY scummy this past day. I'm really confused why he'd give up his breadcrumb to his role, but not his password. It's like getting your meal supersized and getting a diet pop because you're watching your weight. The two moves don't match up. I'm also not a fan of the whole Doctor discussion. If we have a doctor, we want to protect him/her as much as possible and this type of discussion won't help do that.

Adele up to being timed out hasn't contributed much day two. I'm also mot a fan of her 17th post when she responded to LML, but changed her vote to Cubs.

Vote: Mgm,

MrBuddyLee, [PookyTheMagicalBear, Talitha], [IH, Dani Banani, Tamuz, Dragon Phoenix], [Skruffs, Cogito Ergo Sum, Gaspar, logicticus, LoudmouthLee, Thesp, VitaminR, Zindaras], no lynch, foolinc

[Dragon Phoenix]

DP, Pooky, and Talitha on the other hand seem to be perfectly fine with voting for me number one just because it's a bandwagon.

Get your facts right. I for one am voting for you because it is a bandwagon AND you are very high on my likely scum list, if not number one.

[foolinc]

DP, Pooky, and Talitha on the other hand seem to be perfectly fine with voting for me number one just because it's a bandwagon.

Get your facts right. I for one am voting for you because it is a bandwagon AND you are very high on my likely scum list, if not number one.

If I go by the facts I am still behind Mgm and Dani Banani and tied with CES on your list. You have posted nothing of any content towards me since between the time when you moved me up on the list citing the bandwagon and the analysis post.

However, since I have your attention, what do you feel about the rest of my votes?

Note: This question is open to everyone.

[Talitha]

@Gaspar/Glork
not sure if you still wanted a response from me, seeing as you saw the reaching i was talking about, but i've only played w/ a lyncher role 2x that i can recall, and both of those were in RL @ Thespival... the first time, Thesp was the lyncher w/ me as the target, the 2nd time, Talitha was the lyncher w/ me as a target... Thesp's argument from this game reminds me of the subtle stretch to make someone look like scum that he used from Thespival... so, no, it's not OMGUS, it's based on experience... (too bad i can't see how's he's sitting, THAT would give it away)...

i'm not buying this from Dani. I don't think he really believes that Thesp is a lyncher. How often does a lyncher come up in a closed setup forum game? Hardly ever, and I'm sure Dani is aware of this. I think bringing up the lyncher is just a convenient reason (based on memories of Thespival) for Dani to back up his OMGUS against Thesp.

[Mgm]

Mgm's play has been HIGHLY scummy this past day. I'm really confused why he'd give up his breadcrumb to his role, but not his password. It's like getting your meal supersized and getting a diet pop because you're watching your weight. The two moves don't match up. I'm also not a fan of the whole Doctor discussion. If we have a doctor, we want to protect him/her as much as possible and this type of discussion won't help do that.

I wanted to make sure sharing my secret word was a good idea before doing so. I've had conflicting responses, so I'm still not sure. If it helps. I happen to have used my word.

[Talitha]

I'm not sure about the secret words... I believe they probably have some function in the game, but whether putting them out there is a good idea is anyone's guess. The only thing I am worried about with keeping them secret is that they can be lost when a player dies. But we don't know whether they can even help the town, or whether they could hurt the town!

It reminds me of a game at MoSfest where the mod gave us a big red button and said we could push it at any time. We never pushed it.

I think I brought up that example because my gut is telling me to err on the side of caution and keep secret words secret.

[Talitha]

At the start of the game I had foolinc down as a likely townie, just because his 'roles that might be in the game' and speculating on which roles the mafia might have, and seeming pretty genuine, didnt strike me as something a mafioso would likely do. Then I moved him to 'unsure', as the way he popped into the thread with helpful comments (eg. Reminding me to put my vote at the bottom of a post, etc.) made me feel like he might be scum keen to appear extra helpful.

Then Gaspar posted this:

It seems that all Fool did was modify his end-of-day VC from yesterday by bumping up the people who were mutually suspected by the dead players. While it shows consistency, I have to question Foolinc's failure to take into account any of the discussions today, as I just indicated above.)

Which pushed my suspicion of foolinc even further, as I would expect someone who is genuinely trying to find scum would reassess things after a lynch and a nightkill and all that added information.

So there you are foolinc, that's why I'm voting for you. But as I've been looking over foolinc's posts I'm feeling less sure about him being scum.

My vote list may change.. I want to look over a few other players' posts too.

unvote: foolinc
vote: Dani,

IH, foolinc, Pooky (huggles), MrBuddyLee, Mgm, Skruffs, Tamuz, Thesp, Gaspar

[logicticus]

Mgm's play has been HIGHLY scummy this past day. I'm really confused why he'd give up his breadcrumb to his role, but not his password. It's like getting your meal supersized and getting a diet pop because you're watching your weight. The two moves don't match up. I'm also not a fan of the whole Doctor discussion. If we have a doctor, we want to protect him/her as much as possible and this type of discussion won't help do that.

I dont see why the password is even relevent. Why breadcrumb that at all? It doesnt help his claim in any way in my opinion by having his password.

[foolinc]

Mgm's play has been HIGHLY scummy this past day. I'm really confused why he'd give up his breadcrumb to his role, but not his password. It's like getting your meal supersized and getting a diet pop because you're watching your weight. The two moves don't match up. I'm also not a fan of the whole Doctor discussion. If we have a doctor, we want to protect him/her as much as possible and this type of discussion won't help do that.

I dont see why the password is even relevent. Why breadcrumb that at all? It doesnt help his claim in any way in my opinion by having his password.

I never said anything about breadcrumbing the password. What I said was that outing your own breadcrumb but protecting your password, in the name of protecting it from scum, is a very weird play,

[Mgm]

I don't see what's so weird about it. If you can't convince people you're innocent by talking and reasoning, you claim. As logicticus said, my secret word doesn't help my claim at all, so I'd rather make an informed decision about revealing it than just throw it out there.

Dani, what do you say?

[Dragon Phoenix]

Am I the only one who notices that foolinc is calling it incorrectly a PASSWORD repeatedly? I'm even more happy now with my vote.

[foolinc]

Am I the only one who notices that foolinc is calling it incorrectly a PASSWORD repeatedly? I'm even more happy now with my vote.

OMG I called it a password and not a secret word, so I must be scum. That makes sense. I guess everyone who called themselves townies are scum because they didn't call themselves innocents.

[foolinc]

I don't see what's so weird about it. If you can't convince people you're innocent by talking and reasoning, you claim. As logicticus said, my secret word doesn't help my claim at all, so I'd rather make an informed decision about revealing it than just throw it out there.

Dani, what do you say?

Actually, I'm more confused on why you claimed at all. You weren't in a situation that you needed to.

[IH]

Foolinc, the point is that you slipped up on the specifics of your secret word/password, so you must therefore not have one, in case you didn't understand what DP was implying.

Closer to a slip than a scumtell.

Your reaction to it was notable though

FoS

[foolinc]

Foolinc, the point is that you slipped up on the specifics of your secret word/password, so you must therefore not have one, in case you didn't understand what DP was implying.

Closer to a slip than a scumtell.

Your reaction to it was notable though

FoS

Actually, I do have one, but since a word could be easily faked, I don't know how I can make you believe it.

[IH]

I'm personally not to keen on the secret word as I would guess that every role has one, but I'm kind of unsure.

I was fosing your reaction mostly.

[logicticus]

Foolinc, the point is that you slipped up on the specifics of your secret word/password, so you must therefore not have one, in case you didn't understand what DP was implying.

Closer to a slip than a scumtell.

Your reaction to it was notable though

FoS

Actually, I do have one, but since a word could be easily faked, I don't know how I can make you believe it.

Then why do you find it so suspicious that MGM didnt reveal his word?

[IH]

EBWOP-Sorry Glorkmate if I'm giving things away you don't think should, but there are some things I just think are irrelevant to whether scum know them or not.

[foolinc]

Foolinc, the point is that you slipped up on the specifics of your secret word/password, so you must therefore not have one, in case you didn't understand what DP was implying.

Closer to a slip than a scumtell.

Your reaction to it was notable though

FoS

Actually, I do have one, but since a word could be easily faked, I don't know how I can make you believe it.

Then why do you find it so suspicious that MGM didnt reveal his word?

Because he openly role claimed. One would think he'd either role claim and give his secret word or none at all.

[Mgm]

I don't see what's so weird about it. If you can't convince people you're innocent by talking and reasoning, you claim. As logicticus said, my secret word doesn't help my claim at all, so I'd rather make an informed decision about revealing it than just throw it out there.

Dani, what do you say?

Actually, I'm more confused on why you claimed at all. You weren't in a situation that you needed to.

I was at the top of the vote count. By claiming I ensured the town gets in some discussion on something else than just me.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

If Thesp were a lyncher in this game, he'd just claim a guilty on Dani. Which is also why lynchers suck in a closed setup forum game. They're way too easy.

I have trouble imagining a townie seriously considering the possibility. Dani's post, thus, is scummy.

Mgm's claim can be justified. I don't think I'd have done it that quickly, but I do not see this action as inconsistent with Mgmtown.