Mafia 70: Traditional - Game over!

[ZONEACE]

Im ndone playing, i won't be answering anymore questions. Its clear no matter what I say you all are gonna lynch me with your ZERO LOGIC so why try? This 5 person mason claim could EASILY be the mafia's way to safe claim, or it could really be there, I don't know and I don't care. So getting the others to confirm you won't do anything to sway me. Not to mention it would be a TERRIBLE idea if in infact you aren't mafia. The town having more people reveal themselves on day one is stupid, but since I've recieved votes for god only knows what reason, I don't expect to town to do the smart thing.

[Lemming1607]

case against zoneace: Trys to spread confusion on the mason issue by giving us the possibility of them both being scum and a scum ploy...possible but seriously unlikely. There was absolutely no reason for Niv to come out like he did unless he's telling the truth.

Immediately OMGUS' Sim for not believing him when he says he was on his side. Why would you want to buddy up with him?

Goes incredibly emo and roleclaims with like 3 votes on him, after we need something like 13 to vote. Sounds like a scum ploy to get suspicion off of him

VOTE: ZONEACE

[Lemming1607]

also very "convenient" that he isn't going to answer any more arguments against him

[ZONEACE]

well town i think it should now be quite obvious who exactly the scum are especially after this logicless lynch of me is over.

[Lemming1607]

Yes, it's you. If you're innocent, then our logic wouldn't make sense, and if it's illogical you would be able to poke holes in it. Maybe you should, you know, try defending yourself?

[Zeppo]

i have a feeling that Niv and Lemming are mafia. lemming was starting to gain votes from all his bandwagon hopping, and i think that Niv called out simenon to pull pressure off his scum buddy.
i think its probably easier for someone to say that i told them this and they never responded, and have the other person who never actually received anything look scummy.

so,

Vote Niv

Ckillor's thoughts make sense (regarding Niv and Lemming possibly being mafia) despite it being unliekly and not the best plan for the mafia if it's true. so

FOS Lemming

as well.

As far as I can tell Lemming had

two

votes on him before Niv called out Simenon. There was a vote count on page 3 in which he had none. Later Beastly and hmrox voted for him.

Ok, so there were a couple more people berating him who might have voted for him but it's still only two votes. So I find it hard to believe that Niv would make a move to protect a scum partner who's only received two votes when twelve are needed to lynch. Contrary to Zoneace I find Ckillor's thoughts to make no sense at all. I don't really know what to make of this, I'm just throwing it out there.

Unvote

, my vote for Fonz was a random vote and we don't really need it cluttering up the vote counts.

[Sir Tornado]

Zonace's play sucks right now. I mean, seriously, someone is asking for replacement on Page 5 of a 22 player game just because the town isn't following his logic, and refuses to answer any questions? How the heck did you play those 31 games you list on your sig?

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Nice appeal on emotion

Unvote Vote: ZONEACE

[The Venerable Zorg]

wow alot to respond to. First off, i dislike the way in which, an anti-Flameaxe BW formed on Hmrox very quickly.

FoS: Flameaxe

Secondly, i don't know what to think about the 5 man mason-team claim. It sounds completely ridiculous, but then, how could it not be true? It would require just about all the scum to reveal themselves early on, leaving themselves wide open for the rest of the game. Of course the 'at least 1 member is scum' bit gives the group a bit more leeway, which makes me slightly more suspicious.

However the scummiest thing so far has to be the obvious OMGUS by Zoneace on Simenon.

I'm not sure how many votes he has atm, but i cant see any defence for him at this point. He's already committed the 'giving up' scumtell.
On the other hand, he has claimed vanilla. I'm no expert on Mafia, but i'd been taught that scum don't usually claim vanilla, because often, it doesnt change alot.
So that could be a town tell...
still,

HoS: Zoneace

[Patrick]

Votecount

Simenon (4) -- Niv, Carrotcake, Mastermind of Sin, ZONEACE
Flameaxe (1) -- Celtic18
Celtic18 (1) -- The Venerable Zorg
Niv (1) -- ckillor
hmrox (3) -- Flameaxe, The Fonz, Toaster Strudel
Lemming1607 (2) -- Beastly, hmrox
ZONEACE (6) -- Simenon, Flare, Yamahako, Erg0, Lemming1607, KaleiÐoscøpe

Not Voting: Honary Hitchhiker, Sir Tornado, Aimee, Zeppo
22 alive, 12 to lynch.

Honary Hitchhiker has requested replacement. I'm looking for one now.

[Flare]

umm back there in post 98, where i said this. Clearly I'm scum though, OBVI. Oy, some people are so blind. How am I not supposed to suspect someone who votes me AFTER I say I'm leaning toward believing. It's more than OMGUS, it's logic. If you're voting for one of the few people saying they believe you then clearly there's something wrong there. Someone's trying deflect suspicion on to someone else.

Errr, if you can't see how they're town after they vote you, then it is purely omgus.

Not only that, you clearly don't believe him that much, if after he says your statement is scummy, you automatically vote him, and therefore DISBELIEVE him, and think he's scum.

You're either

A.Being to reactionary, and acting like Dodgy, completely unable to see any attack on you and reasonable defend yourself

or

B.Just trying to discredit this attack in any way possible by ignoring it

Unvote, Vote: Zoneace

There's a difference between "leaning to" and actually believing someone. Even if there weren't, it's hardly a valid argument.

this is immensely valid

my role pm says something along the lines of the factthat i am quite possitivve that someone canot be trusted in our masonry. are you saying that yours dosent say that? in the pm that wasn't picked up until now i ask him if he was not told that or if that he was the one that just wasn't trustworthy?

Also, if i wasn't still convinced of sime's scumness, i'd be voting Zone right now

That's just silly, and sounds like you're trying to play both sides of the fence.

FoS:NiV

yeahi give up, if the town is gonna follow crap logic lik ethis I don't want to be part of the game..

I think Niv, Simeon and Lemming are all Scum, and it will be obvious after you lynch me.

I'm a basic townie, not in a mason group and with no power whatsoever, but go ahead and lynch me so i'll have to time to join a game that isn't full of people who quickly jump on logicless bandwagons.

I feel dissapointed by this play that Zoneace just gives up without following any logic at all with an EXTREMELY premature claim.

Confirm Vote:Zoneace

I mean seriously, you have two players contradicting each other's information, OBVIOUSLY one of them is lying. ANd yet you've decided to lynch neither of them. GOOD PLAN TOWN, GOOD PLAN.

Yet I'm unsure how valid this is, and would say that a blatantly scummy player who is trying to attack both of them, and then omgus-lee attacks a player, and then when a bit more pressure is added to him just gives up.

Not only that, you continue to just attack others instead of even attempt a defense of yourself.

I'd be more likely to listen to you if you actually played and was reasonable about the attack on you.

FoS:Lemming for post 126

wow alot to respond to. First off, i dislike the way in which, an anti-Flameaxe BW formed on Hmrox very quickly. FoS: Flameaxe
Secondly, i don't know what to think about the 5 man mason-team claim. It sounds completely ridiculous, but then, how could it not be true? It would require just about all the scum to reveal themselves early on, leaving themselves wide open for the rest of the game. Of course the 'at least 1 member is scum' bit gives the group a bit more leeway, which makes me slightly more suspicious.

First off, do you believe all the people on Hmrox were scum?

Do you believe that to balance a five man mason team to leave one as scum to keep the masons on their toes is not a good way to balance such a role?

Niv coming out and claiming was a horrible play for either alignment.

Vanilla claims are more null tells to be honest.

[Patrick]

Ether replaces Honary Hitchhiker in our wonderful town.

[ZONEACE]

Vanilla claims are more null tells to be honest.

so are you saying you'd like me to lie and make up a role so my claim is more convincing?

In that case, then I'm the doc guys and I can self protect so yeah, mafia, don't waste your time targeting me at night.


Is that better flare? a non-vanilla claim?

[Lemming1607]

being sarcastic and hostile is just digging your own grave. Clear your head and look at what you did and why people find it scummy, then defend yourself. Assume that we don't know your role, and start from there.

[ZONEACE]

I'm apathetic at this point, I'm just waiting for you all to lynch me so the town can realize it screwed up and finally get its head out of its collective rear-end and realize the mafia instigated and pushed this lynch with no logic.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Simenon is a better lynch than ZONEACE.

[Lemming1607]

I'm apathetic at this point, I'm just waiting for you all to lynch me so the town can realize it screwed up and finally get its head out of its collective rear-end and realize the mafia instigated and pushed this lynch with no logic.

if our logic is so bad, why don't you poke holes into it? I think you're just trying to make a proof by assertion that we don't have anything on you

[Toaster Strudel]

i have a feeling that Niv and Lemming are mafia. lemming was starting to gain votes from all his bandwagon hopping, and i think that Niv called out simenon to pull pressure off his scum buddy.
i think its probably easier for someone to say that i told them this and they never responded, and have the other person who never actually received anything look scummy.

so,

Vote Niv

Scum:

ckillor (see above post)
Zoneace (typical scum day 1 meltdown under slight pressure)
Simenon (scum mason)

Choices, choices, so many choices.

vote: Simenon

[Simenon]

Yeah let's lynch TS after we killl zoneace.

[Flameaxe]

/back in town. Did a quick glance tonight, will get a better readthrough tomorrow. But for now,

Unvote

.

[ckillor]

i have a feeling that Niv and Lemming are mafia. lemming was starting to gain votes from all his bandwagon hopping, and i think that Niv called out simenon to pull pressure off his scum buddy.
i think its probably easier for someone to say that i told them this and they never responded, and have the other person who never actually received anything look scummy.

so,

Vote Niv

Scum:

ckillor (see above post)
Zoneace (typical scum day 1 meltdown under slight pressure)
Simenon (scum mason)

Choices, choices, so many choices.

vote: Simenon

you quote me but i don't see how that makes me scummy. all i said was my views. if your going to suspect me have a reason

[Toaster Strudel]

Yeah let's lynch TS after we killl zoneace.

Read ckillor's post and tell me if you think it was sensible. Let me highlight my favorite bit, which names you, and you seem to have failed to notice:

"i think that Niv called out simenon to pull pressure off his scum buddy"

Don't you think Niv's story is a little too unique and detailed to fit that kind of scheme? Neither Niv nor yourself dispute that you are masons. Let's assume you are both masons, and somewhere there is a scum mason. Does it make sense that someone would think that Niv is calling out Simenon to pull pressure off Lemming? So early in the game, and so riskily?

[Simenon]

I certainly think it's illogical, but playstyle and his general behavior this game suggest to me ckillor is town. This is with the fact that it's a bold move to go after a mason at this point unless ckillor happens to be scum with Niv and knows enough information to see through the claim.

I think you could be scum based on your scum list, which is fairly opportunistic in your assessment of this game.

[Ether]

vote: Simenon

When i called him out on this, he didn't respond. and he had atleast 2 days (i think) to do so. he picked up the pm and then said nothin.

Colin's lack of a Nivote is bizarre. This in itself is null, but

I

see a clear dichotomy in the arguments and favor a Colynch. Since, y'know, Niv came out without prompting on Day 1 and all. I don't see scum motivation behind that. (I'd approve of outing another mason to clear up this mess, except that it wouldn't. Either Niv lied or he didn't: Colin's mason-talking strategy is an irrelevant tangent.)

ZONEACE is idiotic, but the later parts of his wagon feel horribly opportunistic. ZONEACE himself requested replacement, so I'd feel more comfortable waiting for that.

I don't like Zorg's 133. I don't like Lemming's anything.

i have a feeling that Niv and Lemming are mafia. lemming was starting to gain votes from all his bandwagon hopping, and i think that Niv called out simenon to pull pressure off his scum buddy.
i think its probably easier for someone to say that i told them this and they never responded, and have the other person who never actually received anything look scummy.

so,

Vote Niv

So, uh...Nivscum rests on Lemmingscum in this. You're voting backwards, kid. (I find this not only counterintuitive but highly scummy, considering my opinions of Colin and Lemming.)

TS beat me to that last one. I was typing, multitasking, feeling special...

[Toaster Strudel]

I certainly think it's illogical, but playstyle and his general behavior this game suggest to me ckillor is town.

What are the signs that ckillor is town despite his complete lack of logic? I do not know this player.