SAGA FRONTIER MAFIA (GAME END)

[MaxwellPuckett]

You want Max, tell us why beyond he feels funny.

Max has been posting without actually feeling like he's got his own slot in this game. He hasn't made any eye-opening cases or said anything that was committed to a certain point of view and

held that point of view

as if he believes it. He's just been posting these walls with a ton of words and not a lot to show for it to the point that I'm pretty sure a lot of it is just put there to make it look as if he wants me to believe he has something to say. It all makes sense logically and what have you but at the end of the day scum can appear pretty logical in posting, even me. He's been reacting a lot to what's happening as it's happening and not in a way that makes me think he's town. Just hours before he went off on DGB scum, he posted the below.

DGB isn't as bad as I thought. Her posts don't really make me feel one way or the other, I think they just didn't make an impression and I forgot about the ones where she was actually doing stuff. Null on that, not coasting scum like I thought it might be.

This is not someone who's going to turn against DGB; this is someone who can't read DGB and has zero opinion of her posting.

*Directly after DGB's reads list with lurkers/lepers he says the below*

I can't believe you've put me in with the players who haven't posted yet, and ZZZX. I think I'm actually crying.

Implying he either thinks zz is scum or isn't credible.

I also had another post about Max earlier.

Let's take these one at a time.
1) Hasn't made any eye opening cases:
How many players do that? This is an unreasonable standard, and I doubt all of your townreads are players who have impressed you.
2) Has not committed to a certain point of view, and held it, as if they believe it: This is also not a town or scum tell. My views change as I get new information, a stagnating player is one who isn't reading the game. And, this point is also untrue.. I'm pretty committed to ABR scum, because he's playing town like a fiddle.
3) The empty walls: Again with the walls. This is null, I always do this. I'm wordy and it's not ideal but it's hard to change. Do you honestly think I type all this shit for padding, especially after being told in SU mafia postgame that it made my ISO annoying to read?

About DGB... you said it yourself. Her posting made no impression on me and I can't read her right now. The solution is to read her later when we have flips.
Also, here's a reference of me 'going off on DGB scum'/

Even if you think each other are scum, engaging scum on their reads can tell you the beats scum want to push.

I don't discuss with scum.

This is objectively bad. ZZZX'S vote was justified imo.

Titus: even with that meta, this just sounds like DGB is flat out refusing to engagr with ZZZX. That's just avoiding information.

Also my post where I mentioned I had DGB as a recent scumlean.
And:

I'm not townreading ZZZX, as I said earlier. I just didn't like DGB's recent posts. ZZZX was making a lot of posts that were half jokes, and yeah they weren't great, but whatever, that's not what I was focusing on. Look at the original context for DGB's statement.
Titu says 'engaging scum can be useful for reasons', and DGB responds with 'I don't engage with scum'. Like.. what do you have to lose?

Oh and finally

Yosarian: I see what you're saying. I don't know if ZZZX's play came off as that calculated, though.
But, I guess I was wrong with my earlier judgement, there was a lot of stuff I wasn't considering when I said that, its not objectively bad.

Lowkey, you're 'coming around on me being scum'. Explain how this exchange made you say that.

Pedit: Hey, look guys, remember when I said ABR might not actually want Klingon lynched? Look! I told the future.

Like.. seriously, your case just boils down to 'I feel funny' to you, even with your explanation. The things you say are vague.
Also, I don't even know what you're trying to prove with that quote where I responded to the readslist. Like, besides it being a lighthearted joke, I don't even know what point your making. Also, I wasn't ZZZX scum or not credible there... it was just a light dig. That, and I couldn't just say 'players who hadn't posted yet'... that would be wrong, ZZZX had posted plenty by then.

This post is just saying Max doesn't make Lowkey feel good. Thassit. I'm getting annoyed that this stuff keeps being repeated with no concrete..

anything

. I've gotten this criticism in other games and it's not even useful. Where do I apply it? Should I start using more exclamation points in my posts? Emoticons? Should I tell other players how I feel and what to do in blunt, to the point sentences? No, I'm not going to do that, I'm not going to stop acting like myself because you people keep giving me vague as hell criticisms like 'feels empty', and

continually not listening when I tell them that the walls are null, and to stop bringing the damn things up.

[itlepip]

Anyone want the neighbor thing tonight?

[Drixx]

MP - You know that defending yourself is just going to feed confirmation bias if you are innocent, so why are you on the defensive. Go find scum and stop trying to defend yourself against things that are subjective and that have been rehashed already. You're literally beating a dead horse.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Also @Pirate Mollie: How's that for someone lying about having read? What he said was 100% false. I haven't said I scumread Titus since the first 200 posts.

That's not remotely as bad as pretending to have read something from another game that you haven't. Not saying that's what you did, just parroting the accusation pirate made.

I didn't notice this before, but.. what? This is blatant misdirection, but since all of ABR's moves have been blatant I guess it's not surprising.
ABR subtly acknowledges that itlepip was wrong about DiamondSentinel currently scumreading Titus, but pushes that under the rug in favour of saying the same thing mollie did (and acknowledging this too), in order to turn things back onto DiamondSentinel. Except, he never actually makes the accusation, he just puts it down as a possibility...
And, so, what was the point of this post? ABR takes a factual post and turns it into a dig at Diamond without actually accusing him of anything. This is great stuff, I'm taking notes!
ABR and itlepip as buds, anyone? The misdirection, the chainsaw defense, it's there. This won't be relevant until later probably, but I'm saying it now for posterity.

Yosarian: DGB's play hasn't really impressed me, and yeah, I think ZZZX wanting to engage and trying to understand her is more towny than DGB scumreading him for the whole game, but barely mentioning ZZZX beyond those early game reads posts.
I'll take another look at DGB, I already said that.

The fact that you're thinking there's only one way to read that situation is weird, actually. I don't know DGB, I've never played with her, why is it suspicious that I find her blunt refusal to engage scummy? You really can't imagine a scenario where I'd find that weird? That's what's weird.

Yosarian, you never responded to this. That you saw DGB's 'i dont engage with scum' post, had one thought in your head about how a person could react, then saw me acting differently, and your instinct was to call that scummy.. that just doesn't follow. Either you actually can't grasp that others would have different opinions on that, or you jumped at the chance to prepare to get onto my wagon for a concrete reason.

Drixx: This is how I find scum. Dressing up a gut read as something other than one is dishonest and therefore scummy, so I'm picking at it to see where it goes. But, I

am

tired of repeating myself.

[Klingoncelt]

TOWN
Drixx
Drunken Pirates (Titus & Pirate Mollie hydra)
Sensei
Errantparabola/(Sharky5x)
The Cool Cucumbers (Wgeurts&Cerberus v666 hydra)

LEAN TOWN
Rylai and Lina (Frozen Angel & Shiro hydra)

NULL
CooLDoG
Fluminator
Zulfy/(Wickedestjr)
Gale Wing Srock/(Yimmy)
ZZZX

LEAN SCUM
DiamondSentinel
DrippingGoofball
Lowkey (Lowell & Hinduragi hydra)

SCUM
Albert B. Rampage
MaxwellPuckett
Yosarian2

3RD PARTY
Itlepip/(ArchAngel9)
Skybird

Any questions you have, Ill be here after 9pm to answer.

[Skybird]

I trust 4 players to be town. Lowkey, Drixx, Cool Cucumbers, and you.

I think this should be the group to go with you.

abr, for what its worth I have been on the phone with titus for 3 hours lol. most of it has been about you and why I think you are town. I think she will come around eventually.

we are gonna get off the phone and she is going to try to hash things out with you.

I might help with max I don't like the jump on dgb cos that was bs. zzthing is being sticky with his reads and is not really engaged with the game. him having so few reads when by now and him not doing anything to rectify that after promising content this weekend looks terrible.

zulfy's vote on abr is dreadful.

I think titus and I have sorted our differences and I think she understands better now as to why I don't want to flood the game with this hydra even tho I know we are 1 of the top posters. I also think she is getting a better understanding of why I do what i do and I look forward to her vca later on in the game. last night I was frustrated and my mood was profoundly affected by IRL circumstances and I thought she was taking advantage of that. she wasn't. we have worked things out.

anyways sorry for the emotional outburst guys.

I am not happy with max's recent posts.

I just want to say your hydra adds a lot to the game, and thank you both for slugging it out. <3

I second this post. As you guys talk about what's happening, I'm learning from both of you. Thanks for that.

[Rylai and Lina]

@ABR

Can i ask you to reconsider you stance about taking us adventuring.

I am really happy that you and DP finally see kind of eye to eye and I will be honest and say that your team is finally solid but I really think we can assist it.

If it is out of the question I wish to know before day end so I can out the names. Not worth keeping it if I am not to enter.
~Lina

[Skybird]

As someone who has more experience with ABR's style of play a la Fate, Spyrex, SDC in general, and my own playstyle circa 2011/2012, this is not a scumgame you can pull off with it. That or, frankly, this shit is pure next level. It's absolutely fucking impossible. As scum trying to hit MC and posting in this manner, you can't post >400 fucking times and get away with it. You literally can't. Half the posts have to be non-scum related, yet they aren't. In fact, a lot of them are scum related, going for something logical, or trying to be helpful. You have to put up a certain persona that's not helpful in any way or avoids this kind of attention. You don't have some masterplan to spam as much as you can until you get MC. You

need

to lurk some because you're a very transparent person when you are as blunt as possible (and, as a result, insulting). Every post would be thought out or checked over and your blood pressure and heartrate rises. >400 posts in a D1 with that doesn't happen. It doesn't. End of story. He's hit the game and has changed reads instead of picking an easy tunnel and leading on it while posting

moderately

. This is very, very important and anyone with a more aggressive, one-liner style of play should be able to recognize this as a purely town game.

I will fight you to the fucking teeth if you oppose him as MC too because he's said, in terms that are in no way unclear, scum names revealed D3. If you have a problem with that, you're scum. ABR is town, you're paranoid and have zero clue what you're talking about or how to deal with his playstyle and you're clueless, hopeless, and bad at reading that type of playstyle. He should be MC, clear as that. Yes, his early judgment sucked but frankly he's one of the better players that, once you know he's town, you can trust him to have at least some very solid townreads. This Drixx shit can stop. Yes, you know he's town, but that's it. That's. literally. it. He has not been as engaged as others in scumhunting, townhunting, or reading players in this game and has focused on typing out a lot of walls where it isn't clear just how well he's following the game besides the game's flavor and mechanics. And, frankly, there's no other pros to voting him in as the MC asides from knowing he's town. You can't be sure he's going to have good townreads, you can't be sure he'll put the right people in his party, he definitely doesn't need NK and lynch immunity, and, to top all of that off, his only claimed role power was being the first MC. He benefits in no way role-wise by being voted in as the next MC. No, every ounce of my being points to an ABR MC vote.

Titus/mollie, this was for you. This is also for anyone dumb enough to vote abr right now.

I haven't finished catching up and I read a couple other games in the middle of writing this so I'm probably a page or two off from where I wanted to post this.

This does make sense to me. I don't post a lot as town so there's no way I could post as much as ABR as scum.

MC: ABR

[Rylai and Lina]

Hey sky what do you think about the you vs Ittle?

[Sensei]

30 pages over the weekend huh.

[DiamondSentinel]

TOWN
Drixx
Drunken Pirates (Titus & Pirate Mollie hydra)
Sensei
Errantparabola/(Sharky5x)
The Cool Cucumbers (Wgeurts&Cerberus v666 hydra)

LEAN TOWN
Rylai and Lina (Frozen Angel & Shiro hydra)

NULL
CooLDoG
Fluminator
Zulfy/(Wickedestjr)
Gale Wing Srock/(Yimmy)
ZZZX

LEAN SCUM
DiamondSentinel
DrippingGoofball
Lowkey (Lowell & Hinduragi hydra)

SCUM
Albert B. Rampage
MaxwellPuckett
Yosarian2

3RD PARTY
Itlepip/(ArchAngel9)
Skybird

Any questions you have, Ill be here after 9pm to answer.

There is no way in hell that Maxwell and Albert are scum buddies together. This is not a bus situation. The only way that they are both scum is if this is multiball/there is a third party.

[Yosarian2]

Am I the only one reading ZZZX as scum? Cuz that's a really magical touch I got, since I am sure I am right.

You're not the only one. Klingon looks even worse right now, but zzzx also looks pretty bad.

You keep saying I look bad but you never say why.

You are Scum.

I've said why you look bad many, many times. You keep refusing to respond in any useful way.

If you don't want to get lynched today, you have to change my mind. I am the person you want to convince. And I already told you how you can do it. Go back and get some real reads on this game that aren't based on OMGUS. Give me something to work with. Anything, really.

[Yosarian2]

You were a lurker at the time I said that.

Right now, you are not a lurker, you have made quite a few posts in the last few days.

The problem is that your posts are overall pretty scummy. Crappy OMGUS vote on me. No real reads on anyone at all, no real comments on anything that's happened all game. And you keep saying things like "it must be rogue vs blue" when there is absolutely no reason to think that has to be the case.

No, I was not a lurker. I have no reason to lurk.

You are a liar.

YOU ARE NOT BEING LYNCHED FOR LURKING. That is NOT why we are lynching you. Geez.

The fact that you keep harping on this just makes you look worse.

I interpret this game literally - and in the real game there's conflict between Rouge and Blue. I focus on one thing at a time, it's easier for me. I'm comfortable in my belief that Itlepip is Neutral Evil and Skybird is Neutral Survivor.

Ok. What in their play makes you think that? What kind of roles do you think would make sense here? Do you care to respond to any of the posts where I';ve explained why I think they're both town?

My OMGUS vote on you isn't crappy, it was a beautiful thing.

It was an extremely anti-town vote, which showed absolutely no effort on your part, and generally made it look like you just wanted to survive by lashing out at people attacking you and had no interest in actually finding scum. And that is, quite literally, all you have been doing all game is lashing out with anger at people who suspect you. It makes me think you have a scum role, because it looks like you only care about not getting lynched, and don't care about actually finding scum.

[Sensei]

Like I've said klingons play hasn't been very impressive here.
But the speed which her wagon formed makes me hesitate.
And I've a soft spot for those who townread me. haha

[Yosarian2]

And then I count, something like 3 or 4 more posts where Klingon just lashes out at me angrily with zero content, call me a "liar", and generally just screams at me because she doesn't like being voted. If your goal is to annoy me, Klingon, you're succeeding. If you goal is to convince me that you're town, you're not.

[Yosarian2]

Yosarian, you never responded to this. That you saw DGB's 'i dont engage with scum' post, had one thought in your head about how a person could react, then saw me acting differently, and your instinct was to call that scummy.. that just doesn't follow. Either you actually can't grasp that others would have different opinions on that, or you jumped at the chance to prepare to get onto my wagon for a concrete reason.

You saw that exchange between DGB and ZXXX, where ZXXX looked terrible and DGB's play looked really town to me, and you found an excuse to come down on the side of ZXXX (even while adding as an aside that you "weren't townreading zxxx".) That, frankly, makes you look suspicious to me.

I can understand people reading things differently then me, but that reaction just seemed SO off that frankly it made me think that you were fake-scumhunting and not real-scumhunting.

[Drunken Pirates]

Yosarian, you never responded to this. That you saw DGB's 'i dont engage with scum' post, had one thought in your head about how a person could react, then saw me acting differently, and your instinct was to call that scummy.. that just doesn't follow. Either you actually can't grasp that others would have different opinions on that, or you jumped at the chance to prepare to get onto my wagon for a concrete reason.

You saw that exchange between DGB and ZXXX, where ZXXX looked terrible and DGB's play looked really town to me, and you found an excuse to come down on the side of ZXXX (even while adding as an aside that you "weren't townreading zxxx".) That, frankly, makes you look suspicious to me.

I can understand people reading things differently then me, but that reaction just seemed SO off that frankly it made me think that you were fake-scumhunting and not real-scumhunting.

That first paragraph is exactly how I feel about ABR and Fluminator. Look at 1180 where I detail this out.

I have different perceptions of the DGB/ZZZX conversation, but the conclusion you draw here is valid. It's sound if your perceptions are.

We are going to agree to disagree on these reads, but this kinda makes me feel better on you. Not totally since I think your reads are crap and it's like are we reading the same thread, but I can see your wheels turning here.

[Yosarian2]

TOWN
Drixx
Drunken Pirates (Titus & Pirate Mollie hydra)
Sensei
Errantparabola/(Sharky5x)
The Cool Cucumbers (Wgeurts&Cerberus v666 hydra)

LEAN TOWN
Rylai and Lina (Frozen Angel & Shiro hydra)

NULL
CooLDoG
Fluminator
Zulfy/(Wickedestjr)
Gale Wing Srock/(Yimmy)
ZZZX

LEAN SCUM
DiamondSentinel
DrippingGoofball
Lowkey (Lowell & Hinduragi hydra)

SCUM
Albert B. Rampage
MaxwellPuckett
Yosarian2

3RD PARTY
Itlepip/(ArchAngel9)
Skybird

Any questions you have, Ill be here after 9pm to answer.

So it still looks like all your scum reads are based on the fact that you don't like people voting for you. Or do you have any real reasons for any of those reads?

[Drunken Pirates]

@RaL, I was supposing ABR was town when I was talking to him last night, cuz Mollie really wanted me to. ABR and I haven't patched things up in the slightest. I apologize for any confusion on my end regarding that. ABR is still quite likely scum.

@ABR, I am greatly concerned that Lowkey is on your party. It would be just as understandable if you wouldn't want me or Klingon MC with each other (assuming we're both townread, I know she's not, but let's not belabor the point). The idea is I want the MC to be held accountable rather than starry eyed. Please take Lowell out of your party and include Errant or RaL.

@Lowkey, I get you think that I am nuts, insane or whatever. You raging at me that ABR is town while ignoring the posts like 1180 that I am making are just frustrating. Browbeating makes me feel worse on your alignment and does zero for me. If you're town, you need to trust my process. You can challenge my perceptions or logic but yelling is bad. You know why I am not hard defending Klingon? She has to come to this realization herself. We can only tell her so many times what to do before she figures out things are a facts needed zone.

That being said, ABR's play here is greatly similar to Klingon's. I am townreading Klingon because of the goads, her early play, she is using and the fact if she's scum she's beyond clueless. That only comes with knowing Klingon really well. ABR hasn't given facts and is pushing for power. It sounds like you're clearing ABR mechanically. That you're thinking what scum would possibly do this but not giving the same logic pattern to Klingon. ABR is more skilled that Klingon and you are giving his play greater deference. Why?

[Drunken Pirates]

I trust 4 players to be town. Lowkey, Drixx, Cool Cucumbers, and you.

I think this should be the group to go with you.

abr, for what its worth I have been on the phone with titus for 3 hours lol. most of it has been about you and why I think you are town. I think she will come around eventually.

we are gonna get off the phone and she is going to try to hash things out with you.

I might help with max I don't like the jump on dgb cos that was bs. zzthing is being sticky with his reads and is not really engaged with the game. him having so few reads when by now and him not doing anything to rectify that after promising content this weekend looks terrible.

zulfy's vote on abr is dreadful.

I think titus and I have sorted our differences and I think she understands better now as to why I don't want to flood the game with this hydra even tho I know we are 1 of the top posters. I also think she is getting a better understanding of why I do what i do and I look forward to her vca later on in the game. last night I was frustrated and my mood was profoundly affected by IRL circumstances and I thought she was taking advantage of that. she wasn't. we have worked things out.

anyways sorry for the emotional outburst guys.

I am not happy with max's recent posts.

I just want to say your hydra adds a lot to the game, and thank you both for slugging it out. <3

I second this post. As you guys talk about what's happening, I'm learning from both of you. Thanks for that.

Game levity moment.

Thank you. Please continue to do so. It makes me feel good that you can draw from players who I do not understand well. These are the moments where I feel ICing over there on USMB helped. You can start discarding anything I say that doesn't work for you and add a little of others play styles, which is what I have recommended for awhile. You will see more of the perceived or actual flaws in my play, which helps you grow. I am all about leaving places better than I find them.

So yeah, happy dance.

[DrippingGoofball]

Mmmm, Klingon is perking up, how 'bout that.

[DrippingGoofball]

Special message for Mollie

http://floridahillbilly.com/rabbit-milk-cheese/

[DrippingGoofball]

But the speed which her wagon formed makes me hesitate.

Speed what speed

This wagon has been simmering and bubbling for a hundred pages

[CooLDoG]

holy donkey tits. what the fuck? reading now. Long ass week-end with severe time-dilation going down. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU. Anyway. time to go fucking read some shit.

[ZZZX]

Sick as fuck. Can't post

This feels so damn shitty ://