Mini 474 - Bergamo Bump-Off (Game Over!)

[Hjallti]

First off, no one would do an honest role-claim, unless the heat was on him, BECAUSE YOU GET KILLED AT NIGHT. His reasoning for not being killed is bad logic. If they knew he was cop, they'd just kill him.

This is also aweful logic. Why would they kill him if they can get him lynched. Everyone is getting at least annoyed with his unsuccesful investigations. scum can kill each night (if they are not roleblocked (e.g. doc)) but controlling the lynch is much harder. By roleblocking the cop they probably avoid the doc (who should protect the cop) and get a chance of killing another enemy (like the SK or the doc), meanwhile setting up a lynch of death_omen.


I will wait for answers of you before probably voting you. I was already still waiting to know if you still believe the bomb scenario, anyway.

MFoS:Karen

It would make Plessiez's game very skillfull, but then again even as town it was very good.

[Muerrto]

Shrug, IMO DO, myself, Hjalti, and Vampdog are cleared at the moment

Uh, why?

Because we're nowhere near LYLO right now with 1 scum floating. So since Aimee called out Vampdog and Hjalti and DO claimed cop they're currently cleared. What part of that is difficult to grasp?

Also since D.O has claimed cop I have to go with him until he is proven otherwise

No you don't...

Um, yes you do. He's a claimed and un-opposed power role claim in a non-LYLO situation. Yes, you do.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Vote Count:

death_omen - 1 (Karen)
Hjallti - 1 (vampyrusddg)

Karen - 3 (Muerrto, death_omen, Nelly632)

Not Voting - 2 (Hjallti, somestrangeflea)

4 to lynch

[somestrangeflea]

So since Aimee called out Vampdog and Hjalti and DO claimed cop they're currently cleared. What part of that is difficult to grasp?

No, that means that the chance of them being scum is slightly lower. They aren't even close to being cleared.

Um, yes you do. He's a claimed and un-opposed power role claim in a non-LYLO situation. Yes, you do.

He's a claimed Cop with no results on Day 3. This is a closed setup, meaning that there may not even be a Cop. He seems adamant that he wasn't roleblocked. So no, I don't.

[Muerrto]

So since Aimee called out Vampdog and Hjalti and DO claimed cop they're currently cleared. What part of that is difficult to grasp?

No, that means that the chance of them being scum is slightly lower. They aren't even close to being cleared.

Sigh...

So since Aimee called out Vampdog and Hjalti and DO claimed cop they're

currently

cleared. What part of that is difficult to grasp?

Currently, as in right now. As in since we're not in LYLO there's no point in going for people who's chance of being scum is, in your own words, slightly lower.

Um, yes you do. He's a claimed and un-opposed power role claim in a non-LYLO situation. Yes, you do.

He's a claimed Cop with no results on Day 3. This is a closed setup, meaning that there may not even be a Cop. He seems adamant that he wasn't roleblocked. So no, I don't.

Also, since we're not in LYLO going for a claimed power role is just as bad as going for Hjalti or Vampdog. If we reach LYLO, suspect DO all you want. If we're not in LYLO since there are other suspects out there how could you possibly justify lynching people whos, again in your own words, chance of being scum is slightly lower?

So, yeah, you do...FOR NOW.

[Karen]

last words:

don't be fools.
death_omen is NOT the cop.

unvote: death_omen

vote: karen

[somestrangeflea]

Self hammer == epic fail

Forever...

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

As the sun sets on your beleaguered little town, nerves are stretching to a breaking point....

Karen takes her own life, admonishing you all to look toward death_omen as a liar and a fake with her last words. What you actually do is completely up to you, of course.

Karen (replaces Plessiez), Townie

, lynched Day 3.


Night Choices are due by Sunday at 3:30pm EDT (a bit more than 48 hrs from now).

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Sometimes it doesn't pay to be in law enforcement. Especially when there're suspected evil doers on the loose. Everyone grumped and moaned about death-omen's lack of investigative results...maybe now after they find his badge and gun they'll believe him. But with a bullet hole in his chest his investigative days are far behind him.

death_omen, Cop

, shot Night 3


Late night house calls were always special to Hjallti. They reminded him of why he went into medicine in the first place. Too bad he couldn't keep the knife in his chest from ending his medical practice. Well, when someone wants you dead I guess it doesn't matter how well you did in Anatomy...

Hjallti, Doctor

, filleted Night 3

4 alive means 3 to lynch

[Muerrto]

Ok, first off, no one vote, if that's not obvious. We OBVIOUSLY have 1 scum left(a blocker) and an SK and 2 town.

So let's start speculating. Who's the SK? Who's the scum?

Karen was obviously wrong...and dumb for killing herself.

DO WAS the cop. Although I gotta say I didn't expect Hjalti as the doctor. Wild.

SO, here we go. Aimee called out VH, me, Vampdog, and Hjalti. She was scum, VH was scum, Hjalti was the doctor, so I'm assuming Vampdog isn't scum just like I did yesterday. I'm scared I'm sheltering Nelly but I don't see him as being the last scum either. That leaves Flea. I have to admit I

didn't

ever see him as scum but I'll have to re-read now I spose. I'll also have to re-evaluate my opinion of Nelly.

As for SK? Since I think Flea's scum and Nelly's town(I hope) I have to go with Vampdog. He's back now but still lurking so it definitely fits. I've suspected him a few times but when he got called out it kind of cleared him. So him being the SK makes perfect sense.

Problem is, if we lynch town today, unless the scum and SK kill each other we lose. I've tried to work out all the scenarios but there's far too many. We can assume no more cops, no more doctors so if we lynch town today we're at 1 SK, 1 scum, 1 town. The night phase is gonna be a mess and town is most likely going to lose. So we HAVE to get this right.

[death_omen]

bah go town!!
Scum shall lose

[somestrangeflea]

Aimee called out VH, me, Vampdog, and Hjalti. She was scum, VH was scum, Hjalti was the doctor, so I'm assuming Vampdog isn't scum just like I did yesterday.

Uh, why? To bring you up on what you said yesterday...

So since Aimee called out Vampdog and Hjalti and DO claimed cop they're

currently

cleared. What part of that is difficult to grasp?

Currently, as in right now. As in since we're not in LYLO there's no point in going for people who's chance of being scum is, in your own words, slightly lower.

Whilst it's possible that it isn't, I think it's fair to assume that 4 alive with 2 killing parties is a LyLo situation, so why is it that yesterday, you were forcing me to clear Vamp and Hjallti under the reasoning that we weren't in LyLo, yet now that we are in LyLo, you're still pushing the reasoning that "Vampy can't be scum, because Aimee said he was!"?

[vampyrusddg]

Hmm, seems the night wasn't as kind to us as the last one, the kill choices seem very strange to me, but they worked out well for the anti-town players

after some brief thought I think the towns done for, at best we've got a 33.3% chance of winning tonight

if we lynch wrong!

and 0% chance of winning

if we lynch scum/SK

scenario 1: we lynch town, leaving 1 scum, 1 SK, 1 town. the 2 killers choose their targets. both hit each other, town wins. 1 hits town, 1 hits the other, survivor wins. both hit town, draw game (deadlock tommorow, both kill each other that night)

scenario 2: we lynch SK or scum. Surviving killer kills town leaving 1 town, 1 killer. Game over, surviving killer wins.

So in short we have to lynch town to have a chance a winning. Unless the other town player has one hell of a trick up their sleeves, which with cop, doc, vig and inventor gone I'm presuming they don't

vote: vampyrusddg

[somestrangeflea]

scenario 1: we lynch town, leaving 1 scum, 1 SK, 1 town. the 2 killers choose their targets. both hit each other, town wins. 1 hits town, 1 hits the other, survivor wins. both hit town, draw game (deadlock tommorow, both kill each other that night)

scenario 2: we lynch SK or scum. Surviving killer kills town leaving 1 town, 1 killer. Game over, surviving killer wins.

Not quite... There's still the factor that the scum has a roleblocker (which, given the fact that D_O was Cop, is almost certain). Also, just to be clear here, there is a third scenario, No-Lynch, but I'm currently unsure of the pros and cons of that...

[Nelly632]

So...
2 Town
1 SK
1 Scum

Muerrto
SST
Vampy
Nelly632

That gives me a 1/3 chance of picking scum, 1/3 chance of picking SK & a 1/3 chance of picking Town.

I know with 100 percent certainty who one of the townies are (me), but who to trust:

Muerrto Wrote:

Ok, first off, no one vote, if that's not obvious. We OBVIOUSLY have 1 scum left(a blocker) and an SK and 2 town.

So let's start speculating. Who's the SK? Who's the scum?

Karen was obviously wrong...and dumb for killing herself.

DO WAS the cop. Although I gotta say I didn't expect Hjalti as the doctor. Wild.

SO, here we go. Aimee called out VH, me, Vampdog, and Hjalti. She was scum,

VH was scum, Hjalti was the doctor, so I'm assuming Vampdog isn't scum just like I did yesterday. I'm scared I'm sheltering Nelly but I don't see him as being the last scum either. That leaves Flea. I have to admit I didn't ever see him as scum but I'll have to re-read now I spose. I'll also have to re-evaluate my opinion of Nelly.

As for SK? Since I think Flea's scum and Nelly's town(I hope) I have to go with Vampdog. He's back now but still lurking so it definitely fits. I've suspected him a few times but when he got called out it kind of cleared him.

So him being the SK makes perfect sense.

Problem is, if we lynch town today, unless the scum and SK kill each other we lose. I've tried to work out all the scenarios but there's far too many. We can assume no more cops, no more doctors so if we lynch town today we're at 1 SK, 1 scum, 1 town. The night phase is gonna be a mess and town is most likely going to lose. So we HAVE to get this right.

It is logical to assume that if Aimee avoided SST name then in this scenario he is SCUM. Like I have said before I don't believe she would have brought up both Vampy & Muerrto if they were scum buddies while at the same time voting off VH who was her scum buddie. It just seems kind of excessive.

SK, I wish I could agree with you but as you know the only thing that cleared you in my eyes was the Aimee thing but now it is clear that you can be a SK and Aimee wouldn't have known about it. I won't lie I am leaning toward believing you are the SK...

Hold on I am going to stop right in the middle of my tracks and say something...

The more I think about it the more I realize that this more about who is going to win this game between the SK & Scum then about the townies winning. It would appear that only a few scenarios work right now in my mind...

(Names dont matter in these scenario just because your name is under a role doesn't mean you are that role)

Muerrto (SK), SST (Scum), Nelly (Town), Vampy (Town)

Nelly, Vampy & Muerrto lynch SST...

Muerrto NK's Vampy...

Next Day we have Nelly & Muerrto and I believe that is a SK win...

Another scenario:

Muerrto (SK), SST (Scum), Nelly (Town), Vampy (Town)

Nelly, Vampy & SST lynch Muerrto...

SST NK's Nelly...

Next Day we have SST & Vampy and I believe that is a Scum win...

Another Scenario:

Muerrto (SK), SST (Scum), Nelly (Town), Vampy (Town)

Nelly, SST & Muerrto lynch Vampy...

((( Muerrto NK's Nelly ))))
SST NK's Muerrto

SST Wins for Scum

((( SST NK's Nelly ))))
Muerrto NK's SST
Muerrto Wins as the SK

(((SST NK's Muerrto )))
Muerrto NK's SST
Nelly wins for the town

Another Scenario:

We NO LYNCH

Close our eyes & cross our fingers hoping that they take each other out lol

Because if one of the two townies get knocked out during the night and either the SK or the scum get knocked out then we are still left with 1 on 1 and that is bad.

The best scenario is for us to go for the SK and hope that the Roleblocking/Night Killing SCUM that is left cannot kill tonight then we have a chance for tomorrow.

My vote is on Muerrto as the Serial Killer but I can be swayed because it is not set in stone.

[Muerrto]

The best scenario is for us to go for the SK and hope that the Roleblocking/Night Killing SCUM that is left cannot kill tonight then we have a chance for tomorrow.

Your benefit of the doubt on my end is slipping. If we kill the SK, how would the scum not be able to NK?

In fact, if we kill the scum, the SK would be able to NK. Unfortunately, strangely. Vampy is right.

If we lynch the SK, the scum wins automatically. If we lynch the scum, the SK wins automatically. Nothing will change either of those scenarios.

If we lynch town today we have 1 town, SK, and scum at night. They may kill themselves or they may kill town but it's just better than the auto lose scenario.

If we NO LYNCH today then we help the scum, because the SK doesn't know who to target and the scum does.

Now all of this needs the blocking factor added in and that gives the scum a slight advantage.

Vampy is correct, we have to lynch town today. If he's already voting himself, I have to assume he's not the SK or the scum because he'd be throwing the game for himself. So since Vampy's town...

Vote: Vampdog

Before you attack me for my quick vote, read my post and if you can dispute it, then attack me. Now we just cross our fingers that the scum and SK kill each other or pick the same target.

[somestrangeflea]

I think that the fact that we gotta lynch a Townie is an inconvenient truth. I am willing to hammer, but I want to wait for Nelly to respond to Muerrto's points before I do so.

[Muerrto]

Today is either a no lynch and we help the scum and not the SK or a townie lynch and cross our fingers. If we lynch the bad guy the other one wins automatically. But yes, please everyone wait so that we can possibly catch something we've missed in the scenarios. We have to be sure.

And DON'T claim. If the scum knows who the SK is he'll block him for the win. Do NOT claim ANYTHING.

[vampyrusddg]

I can't see anything else, no lynching provides an alternative, but I think it would be a mistake, more chance us being in a one killer, one town situation tommorow (remaining killer wins) barring Nelly coming up with something feel free to drop the hammer on me, unless Nelly wants to do it himself, everything else is just our anti-town roles posturing for the NKs

[Nelly632]

Ok let me see I am under the impression that the Scum who is left CANNOT NK tonight (Or atleast hope), the reason I assume this is because it just doesn't make sense for a scum who can Night Kill to continue to Roleblock DO when he could simply Night Kill and ensure that the scum have one less Town to deal with. But instead this scum Roleblocks DO for most of the game then does a Night Kill last night, leading me to believe that possibly he has only 1 night kill all together but once again I could and probably are wrong.

I believe Vampy is a Townie because why would Scum or even SK try to off himself on the last day.

I know I am town...

Muerrto like I said before because of Aimee I put you as the serial killer...

SST is are last scum...

But personally knowing these roles doesn't really matter to me at this point, I don't believe that lynching a townie is the right move.

scenario 1: we lynch town, leaving 1 scum, 1 SK, 1 town. the 2 killers choose their targets. both hit each other, town wins. 1 hits town, 1 hits the other, survivor wins. both hit town, draw game (deadlock tommorow, both kill each other that night)

So now we lynch Vampy who is Town and Muerrto & SST have to choose what to do. Both can target me leaving them at a deadlock tomorrow, one can target me leaving himself open to be killed by the other giving the win away. Or they can kill each other giving the town the win, what I am saying is "Why would they give the town the win?" We are hoping that they kill each other but why would they do that? If they kill each other they assure a victory for the town, no one wants to lose so lets say that just to be sure SST roleblocker blocks Muerrto and because of that we have no NK and now we are back on another Day.

Muerrto Votes for SST & SST votes for Muerrto, now what do I do? At this point the town has lost anyways so whats the point?

Now what I am saying about killing the serial killer is I think us townies should take a chance. We should kill the SK & take a chance on the last scum not having a NK.

If he doesn't then the next day arrives and we have a win.

I believe that Muerrto might think that SST doesn't have a NK so he wants to have a townie lynched so he can kill off SST giving him the victory.

I think SST would have voted off Vampy already if he had a NK available.

I don't know I could be wrong but at this point I will listen to Vampys wishes, if you honestly feel that my points are wrong and I should hammer you then I will do just that.

[Muerrto]

Ok let me see I am under the impression that the Scum who is left CANNOT NK tonight (Or atleast hope), the reason I assume this is because it just doesn't make sense for a scum who can Night Kill to continue to Roleblock DO when he could simply Night Kill and ensure that the scum have one less Town to deal with.

Simple solution to this post. You're wrong. Read the roles. The blocker gets his ability but the mafia always get a night kill. So no matter what, if we lynch the SK, scum wins. If we lynch scum, the SK wins.

Period.

But I do like the thinking outside the box because no matter what this scenario sucks for town.

[somestrangeflea]

So now we lynch Vampy who is Town and Muerrto & SST have to choose what to do. Both can target me leaving them at a deadlock tomorrow, one can target me leaving himself open to be killed by the other giving the win away. Or they can kill each other giving the town the win, what I am saying is "Why would they give the town the win?" We are hoping that they kill each other but why would they do that? If they kill each other they assure a victory for the town, no one wants to lose so lets say that just to be sure SST roleblocker blocks Muerrto and because of that we have no NK and now we are back on another Day.

The problem with this paragraph is, you're applying what you know (or, rather, what you claim to know), and assuming that all the other players know this to be true.

From an NPOV, assuming that Vampy is town (which I feel is reasonable to assume), then the remaining townie knows who the two killers are. But that's irrelevant, since the Townie can no longer do anything.

The killers, on the other hand, don't know who the other killer is.

I think SST would have voted off Vampy already if he had a NK available.

Is the cause of this, instead of some elaborate scum role that only has one kill, simply not just that I'm a Townie! I haven't hammered because discussion is still quite active, and I don't like cutting it off.

Read the roles. The blocker gets his ability but the mafia always get a night kill. So no matter what, if we lynch the SK, scum wins. If we lynch scum, the SK wins.

Read

what

roles...? This is not an Open game, and you have just admitted to having knowledge of the ScumRoleblocker role PM...

Care to explain..?

[somestrangeflea]

EDWOP:

"since the Townie can no longer do anything." was referring to

after

the lynch.

[Muerrto]

Read

what

roles...? This is not an Open game, and you have just admitted to having knowledge of the ScumRoleblocker role PM...

Care to explain..?

The mafia ALWAYS gets a night kill despite what roles they have. Period. Vampdog knows this, I know this, and

Mod: Can we get a ruling? Despite any roles the mafia ALWAYS gets a night kill, right? Unless blocked?

Sorry, closed setup so I can't divulge anything about the game mechanics - Mod

So no, no knowledge of PM's, just knowledge of mafia.

[somestrangeflea]

Read

what

roles...? This is not an Open game, and you have just admitted to having knowledge of the ScumRoleblocker role PM...

Care to explain..?

The mafia ALWAYS gets a night kill despite what roles they have. Period. Vampdog knows this, I know this, and

<snip>

So no, no knowledge of PM's, just knowledge of mafia.

Well yeah, you say that

now

! I know just as well that Mafia not being able to kill every night is a bizarre role (in a normal, anyway), but that doesn't chance the fact that the actual words "Read the roles." is a scummy thing to say in a closed game.