Open 19 - Nightless (Over?) before 430

[VitaminR]

<3 Skruffs

LOL.
What does VitaminR's bluffing or non bluffing have to do with this? We already know he'll lynch anyone. Man without ethics, that one.

And thank you.

[VitaminR]

unvote vote Setael

IH would have been 100x better. And still IS 100x better.

FOS: VitaminR

. If you didn't happen to check in that is really unfortunate.... but it makes me think you are full of it.

This really makes me think Guardian is town. I'm also fairly sure Skruffs is.

I'm starting to have doubts about Thok, for some reason. Something about his deadline behaviour yesterday jarred me.

[VitaminR]

Sorry for the on-the-fly posting, but here's my list:

IH
Thok
Elias
Tony
Skruffs
Guardian

Vote: IH

[VitaminR]

Okay, I re-read and here's what bothered me about Thok. He suddenly produced a couple of new reasons for voting Setael at the deadline after sitting back quite a bit before voting. That doesn't really gel with his vehemence in going after Omanus. He essentially brought Romanus into the spotlight.

Also, in a Nightless game, it is important to bus your buddies as scum. I know Thok knows this and I think this kind of manoeuvre would be just the thing for Thok to do.

[Thok]

I'm starting to have doubts about Thok, for some reason. Something about his deadline behaviour yesterday jarred me.

To have to have doubts about me, you'd have to ignore the fact that Setael tried to start a wagon on me immediately on replacing in, and that I was pushing on Oman/Romanus much harder than anybody else for much of the game.

(OK, given my propensity for bussing people, the second comment is probably useless for me. Although it then becomes weird why I jumped away from Setael only to jump back to her today. Feh, discussing my own general voting tendencies is probably useless.)

Pretty sure Elias is protown (given my analysis of what Romanus's jump on Guardian's plan meant, as well as Setael trying to push on him) and I'm very happy with Skruffs.

[Thok]

Don't you love simulposts about my tendencay to bus people?

[Guardian]

Yes!

VitaminR, I am happy Setael was scum -- if she showed up town, I'd be thinking you were scum with IH now -- but as it is, your not changing votes is at most a null tell, and your voting IH today makes me happy.

I also don't like Thok's play end of day, he said was confused by the wagon moving, and also seemed to be trying to get Setael to vote me too hard.

IH
Thok
Elias
Tony
Skruffs

makes some sense to me, though I would probably switch Skruffs and Elias. I don't see Romanus reacting how he did to my plan to lynch to 4 if one of you was his scum buddy. However, independent of Romanus being scum, I definitely agree that Elias has been more suspicious than Skruffs as a whole.

vote: IH

.

[TonyMoonshine]

Also, in a Nightless game, it is important to bus your buddies as scum.

If this is true, you still have a strike against you with voting records. I think you have been on every lynch.

[Thok]

If you look at my general play, I do think you'll find a tendenancy for me to be more uncertain about bandwagons as town than as scum.

Also, does the Setael-Thok interaction look fake to you? It's clear that she was trying to get a wagon on me.

Why does Guardian's vote on Setael make Guardian look good? At the time it was made, Guardian was the lynch leader, and the only viable wagons were Guardian, Setael and IH. If Guardian and Setael are scum together, then the only way Guardian could avoid a scum being lynched was to go after IH (I doubt IH is scum in a Setael-Guardian scum scenario), which likely wasn't going to happen (where was the fourth vote coming from?) Guardian moving his vote to Setael isn't really a scum tell, but I can't see it being a town tell.

[Elias_the_thief]

Why does Guardian's vote on Setael make Guardian look good? At the time it was made, Guardian was the lynch leader, and the only viable wagons were Guardian, Setael and IH. If Guardian and Setael are scum together, then the only way Guardian could avoid a scum being lynched was to go after IH (I doubt IH is scum in a Setael-Guardian scum scenario), which likely wasn't going to happen (where was the fourth vote coming from?) Guardian moving his vote to Setael isn't really a scum tell, but I can't see it being a town tell.

agreement. more coming tonight.

[Guardian]

just for the record...

I voted Setael when Tony was the lynch leader.

later I was, but I voted her before that, too. I only unvoted because I thought IH lynch was possible.

[Skruffs]

I'll point out myself that I am very close to being Too Townie in my voting record.
I think I was on Setael and John, not on anyone else. >.>

VitaminR, I said when I first voted Oman that if he was scum I was going after you next.

I intend to, but here's who else I'm looking at:

Guardian hopped right behind Setael and asked VitR to follow too - "and one other". Might be the last player.

Tony's wagon was abandoned by at least one scum - could have been a last minute 'save' of a scum buddy. Setael wasn't really in danger - and was more trying to very quickly get IH lynched, at that point.

So I'm pretty sure both scum are nestled in with Tony, Guardian, and VitaminR, in some order. The way Oman and Setael both skipped over VitR and fingered me for voting John, calling it bussing - and the way Oman dropped out of the game right after I pointed that out - makes it more likely that VitaminR is scum, in my opinion, with bad partners.

Guardian was rather Badgered into voting Setael - it was either Setael or himself, so voting Setael shouldn't really be considered a townie thing for him - Who suggested that, though?


BTW guys, we now have 2 scum, 7 alive, no night kills. This is GREAT!


My opinions are out there, now, and up for the accused to deliberate.

[Simenon]

This applies to all of my games here, but:
I don't have the time to do my replacing/prodding/posting thing tonight. So just sit tight and be patient (deal with a deadline if you have one), and wait until tomorrow night or the night after for me to get things in order.

[IH]

Yay for extra lives. (Munches on a green mushroom)

To be honest, I did check the thread, but I chickened out (I really was torn) and figured I'd have time to check in again anyway before the deadline.

FoS

I also missed Guardians vote change and thought it was an FoS.

I'm unsure how I feel about Thok.

SKRUFFS PLAY IS TOO PERFECT! SCUMZORZ! (Reference to the first nightless <.<)

A larger post sometime soon as I try to refrain from doing larger posts here at the college (to many distractions to think straight) but if I have to hijack the main phoneline or something then I'll make a big post tonight.

[Thok]

Hey, Guardian. If you are town, why didn't Setael vote for you when you were both at three votes and no other lynch options seemed likely?

[Guardian]

Hey, Guardian. If you are town, why didn't Setael vote for you when you were both at three votes and no other lynch options seemed likely?

Why didn't Setael vote for me? Newbie scum mistake? She didn't want to look scummy by voting me just because it was convenient? How am I supposed to know?

My best guess is that it seemed like she was trying to get

you

to vote for me, and instead you voted her. Like I said, you seemed rather apologetic, and unlike you contend, the interactions between you and Setael do not at all definitively strike me as authentic.

Also she

did

vote for me in the end.



Skruffs, my list of scum is almost the inverse of yours. I think IH, Thok, and Tony, in that order, are most likely to contain the 2 scum, with you and Elias close behind Tony. VitaminR doesn't make sense to me as scum right now.

I guess this will lead to some interesting debate. I agree that "we" are in a good position right now, though.

[Thok]

My best guess is that it seemed like she was trying to get

you

to vote for me, and instead you voted her. Like I said, you seemed rather apologetic, and unlike you contend, the interactions between you and Setael do not at all definitively strike me as authentic.

If I was scum with Setael and you were town, why would she need to convince me to vote for you?

[Skruffs]

How would that be a 'newbie scum' mistake versus a 'newbie' mistake? Do you mean it was a mistake in that she didn't 'bus' someone when she should have?

I seem to remember you and her both jumping on IH and begging VitR to join you. I think you are more closely tied to setael than ih OR thok are.

[VitaminR]

Also, in a Nightless game, it is important to bus your buddies as scum.

If this is true, you still have a strike against you with voting records. I think you have been on every lynch.

That's true, though I was on almost every lynch in the first Nightless as well. I was town in that one.

If you look at my general play, I do think you'll find a tendenancy for me to be more uncertain about bandwagons as town than as scum.

I actually like these posts. They're kinda manipulative, but I have to say parts of them do sway me.

Also, does the Setael-Thok interaction look fake to you? It's clear that she was trying to get a wagon on me.

Yeah, it did look a bit faked, but that was mostly later in the day. I got a bit of "more experienced scum guiding the newbie scum"-vibe from you calmly asking her questions and pointing out she should be voting Guardian.

Why does Guardian's vote on Setael make Guardian look good? At the time it was made, Guardian was the lynch leader, and the only viable wagons were Guardian, Setael and IH.

Not because of the vote, but because he explicitly said that an IH wagon would be so much better. I don't think a scumbuddy would have said that. It just struck me as sincere.

VitaminR, I said when I first voted Oman that if he was scum I was going after you next.

I know and I'm not surprised. I don't remember why, though. I seem to remember it was some comment someone made (I presume YB or Omanus).

Guardian, could you link a game in which you were scum?

[Guardian]

My wiki has three.

Theoville is the most "real" of the games, and the only game I've ever been lynched in as scum. Ironically my only win on mafiascum.



Skruffs -- maybe because Setael was 'scum' and that was her 'role'? Why are you parsing my words like this? Do you think my choice of 'newbie scum' is any reliable indicator of anything, other than me reading her lynch scene?

Well, I think Thok's more tied to Setael than me or IH. And you certainly aren't going to convince me that I'm linked to her .

Thok -- Maybe she didn't want to look bad for voting me? Thok, why am I supposed to know the answers to these questions? She was scum -- do

you

know her motivations?

[IH]

You aren't linked to Setael? You can't tell me that after yesterday when she said she thought we were both town, and then voted me to "call vitR's bluff", and then moved her vote to someone other than you?

I mean you can try to blindly ignore a fact, but whatever.

[Guardian]

OK, I may look linked to Setael, but I know that I'm not, and Skruffs is like trying to convince me that I am.

[Guardian]

And even re: me looking linked to Setael... I did help get her lynched, and if she hadn't voted IH, she was my final target yesterday.

And if you think it is unreasonable for me to target IH over my other target... come on.

[TonyMoonshine]

I mean you can try to blindly ignore a fact, but whatever.

IH, you have posted several times that I'm the best lynch for today with little or no reason. You seem to do this when someone else brings up my name. I really dislike this. Has anyone brought up a IH/Guardian pairing?

fos: IH

[Thok]

VitR-I don't really see Guardian claiming an IH wagon would be better to be a protown tell. Given that he's been calling IH scum forever, I doubt that he'd change his mind about that.

Guardian-The point of my questions is that you don't have a good answer to them and that for the most part you can't have a good answer to them. I believe that they provide good evidence that you are scum trying to make a convoluted case on me.

As for the whole Setael connection thing,I'm seriously tempted to point out every single time you've said "I disagree with a Romanus lynch" or "I think the case on Romanus is weak" or "I think Romanus is a confused townie"?

Or the fact that you voted IH rather than Romanus when the lynch possibilities were Aimee-Romanus. Or the fact that you voted MOS when the lynch possibilities were MOS-Oman.
(The first was much less sketchy than the second.)

Even your voting yesterday is sketchy. You only voted Setael when Tony was already the first to three votes: immediately after Setael moved off Tony to IH (making Setael the leader), you jumped off of Setael. Your last Setael vote is strictly a null tell, as it was either you or her at that point.

Also your vote for Setael was completely inconsistent with your earlier claimed suspicions of Elias earlier yesterday; if Elias was scum, your logic forced Setael to be town!