Mini 500 - Cult Mafia - Game Over!

[White]

Mod Edit

Official Vote Count #18

Mastermind of Sin[5](White, pwayne66, tyhess, Trojan Horse, Oman)
tyhess[2](ac1983fan, Flameaxe)
ac1983fan[2](theopor_COD, curiouskarmadog)
theopor_COD[1](vollkan)
Flameaxe[1](Dr. Blackstrike)
Trojan Horse[1](Mastermind of Sin)


Not Voting[0]()

Insert Post Count:

[Oman]

Stop being Oppressive to the mod.

[White]

...you must be on scum chat.

Vote: Oman

(notice the lack of bold)

[vollkan]

If MoS is town, then it is quite likely I would say that scum is/are on his wagon. However, the problem is that MoS has been scummy by his own admission, he says intentionally. As such, I don't think the fact that people have wagoned on MoS is evidence of potential scumminess at this point of the game, because we don't know MoS's alignment. I mean, suspecting one of the wagoners might be valid, but it requires an assumption that MoS is pro-town.

As I said with Tyhess, I fail to see how me doing this intentionally is relevant at all. If I was accidentally scummy, it wouldn't change what I did, and it wouldn't change who was going to attack me. It's not like all the scum could tell the difference between accidental and on purpose. They're going to act the same regardless, for the most part. There are town on every wagon, but people still look for scum on wagons, yes? There is no reason it can't be done in this instance. It's not like I was so obviously scum that no townie in their right minds would stay off my wagon. This is evidenced by the fact that only 4 people have voted me out of 11 possible. I gave the town a wagon, and there is very, very likely to be one scum found on it.

MoS does kind of have a point here; I myself am among those who were not convinced by the case against him. The early accusations of defensiveness seemed to have no basis of me and then things very quickly jumped to him saying it was intentional.

The problem is that nothing MoS has said can be seen to have any basis without knowledge of his alignment. Maybe the wagon is informative to MoS, but it says nothing to the rest of us other than that people chose to wagon on someone who was scummy (though I question the scumminess of MoS at least initially).

MoS, you say this was your plan, presumably you have some idea of how to make it actually function to our benefit? It is no good saying we should focus on the wagonners and not you, because that requires a significant assumption on our part.

[Oman]

That vote on Trojan is off though.

[curiouskarmadog]

realized my unvote was not bolded..

unvote ac1983fan

no point that being there....not sure I am buying the MoS bandwagon...going to reread a bit to make sure I understand it.

[pwayne66]

MoS does kind of have a point here; I myself am among those who were not convinced by the case against him. The early accusations of defensiveness seemed to have no basis of me and then things very quickly jumped to him saying it was intentional.

This still gets me. It seems that all of the MoS apologists have reduced his actions and the case against him as defensiveness while the case against him is about refusing to cooperate.
For me, this bandwagon is and always has been about pressure. If the town is going to win, it is going to be because EVERYBODY posted content and answered questions. Instead we are rewarding and praising some attention starved, John Wayne wannabe by saying "It's ok if you don't want to talk" and "oh jeez, I don't know why everybody is being so mean to you..."

Instead we have a town that pressures a person that IS talking into shutting the fuck up and doesn't want to pressure somebody that's not talking in order to get them to answer a mounting list of questions.

jtfc.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Isn't MoS's theory really just one massive OMGUS to everybody that has had the audacity to ask him some simple questions and expect to be acknowledged? Don't answer that MoS. (reverse pyscology? or reverse reverse pyscology? hmmm...)

Point is: MoS is anti-town. MoS is pro-MoS. He claims his tactics are meant to bring scum out into the light, but conveniently he is the only one that can correctly divine the results of his tests. Somehow, only MoS knows how many assumptions the town can safely make when untangling his elaborate WIFOM arguement. MoS is the only person that can say what questions he ought and ought not consider answering and then only he can determine what assumptions should be drawn from his decisions. Sounds like a scum utopia.

Oh really? So you're so helpless that I am the only one who can take any conclusions from other people's actions? This game is not cut-and-dried. I am the only one who knows my alignment, but that shouldn't stop you. You don't lynch someone and *then* try to figure out what info can be gotten from it. You do your analysis first.

You can make as many assumptions as you need to make. You make all the assumptions. Making all the assumptions is better than making no assumptions. Assume I'm scum and work out who my partners might be. People are assuming I'm scum right now, but they aren't even trying to find my partners. I get accused of not being helpful to the town, yet the people attacking me aren't being any more helpful. If you're going to assume I'm scum, you should also assume I'm town and work out who might be scum in the situation. You need to consider all possibilities, and you aren't doing that. No one is.

[Mastermind of Sin]

What I said is that scum are likely to jump on easy bandwagons when someone is acting obviously scummy, therefore one of the people that voted me is almost certainly scum. That's called logic and deduction, but then you obviously don't know about that.

Thats called logic and deduction? It seems to me that it requires us to do two things: 1) assume that one of the people on your wagon is scum. 2) assume that you are not scum. Where I come from, that's not logic. That's called a leap of faith.

As I said before, it's logic to make all assumptions and see where it leads you. You don't just sit around going "hmm, I don't know whether or not this guy is scum, so I'll just sit here and not think about anyone else besides him until he's dead".

Especially from me? What the fuck do you know about me? You know nothing me, otherwise you wouldn't think I was scum. Don't come up with bullshit reasons to keep from having to unvote me. "Especially from someone like MoS" my ass.

Aside from the fact that he watchs too much Jerry Springer, we know this about MoS: he likes metagaming unless it is used against him...

No. I always like metagaming. The people attacking me are not metagaming me. If there is any metagaming being done to prove that I'm scum, please link me to that game. The only people that have metagamed me have come to the conclusion that I am protown. You would know that if you weren't just making things up.

[vollkan]

This still gets me. It seems that all of the MoS apologists have reduced his actions and the case against him as defensiveness while the case against him is about refusing to cooperate.

Key word in what I said was

The

early

accusations of defensiveness

I didn't buy that argument which seemed to be the main thrust of the case at the time.

He has refused to co-operate since then, though now he has merged that with his ridiculous "I'll act scummy to trick people" thing. Maybe he sees that as a contribution, though I don't.

For me, this bandwagon is and always has been about pressure. If the town is going to win, it is going to be because EVERYBODY posted content and answered questions. Instead we are rewarding and praising some attention starved, John Wayne wannabe by saying "It's ok if you don't want to talk" and "oh jeez, I don't know why everybody is being so mean to you..."

Don't interpret this as me pandering to his inaction; I have been saying all along that we should pressure MoS. That was the very reason I put him at number 3 on that list, if you remember. I hadn't seen anything notably scummy-defensive from him, which other people said they had, but I could see that his behaviour was odd and he definitely needed to contribute more.

By my count, MoS is at L-1. He shows no signs of making any contribution now that he has placed himself into this "I'll act scummy to attack my wagoners" thing because he sees that as his great contribution. And his posts are definitely beginning to take on a veneer of defensiveness (inc. swearing)

I see this situation as MoS not being overly suspicious in the sense of not having done anything I would normally characterise as scummy but, simultaneously, he is being consciously making no contribution which is of course anti-town and can be seen as scummy.

Oh, something else I noticed:

Unvote, Vote: Trojan Horse

This feels way off to me. You hope he doesn't think you're "too" scummy? I see no reason to make a post like this. You've made posts like this earlier, asking me if I was going to attack you now, or something like that. You keep acting like you expect to be scummy, you expect to get heat from other players. It's almost as if you expect to be lynched. Other than these remarks, you haven't seemed that scummy, so I don't see any reason a protown player would be worried about their scumminess. You haven't done anything of note for a townie to worry about.

Trojan was not on your wagon when you voted him (though he is now). If you are so damned sure that scum are on your wagon why did you instead choose to go for the obvious newb?

[Mastermind of Sin]

RRR.

Vote: MoS

. This is not about his latest vote on me; I guess I deserved that, after I made my "hope theo doesn't think I'm scum" comment without tacking on a smiley. This is about my gut feelings about him being scum.

I've been sitting around without voting for too long. It's time for me to (at least temporarily) commit.

Gut feeling is not a good reason to put a fourth vote on me. You should know better than that.

Vote MoS

I'm going with Trojan Horse here, that last vote was obviously a joke about theo thinking I'm scum or something and then saying "but thats probably just OMGUS".

I don't know MoS, can we stop this game and get back to the scumhunting.

What was obvious about it? Trojan Horse may have put a non-serious expression to it, but it was not the first time something like that had been said. I felt that some pressure should be applied, because statements like that are just appeals to emotion, and they can subconsciously get people to lean towards not voting the person. Better curbed now than let it continue.

Unvote

[vollkan]

Crossed with both of MoS's posts.

You can make as many assumptions as you need to make. You make all the assumptions. Making all the assumptions is better than making no assumptions. Assume I'm scum and work out who my partners might be. People are assuming I'm scum right now, but they aren't even trying to find my partners. I get accused of not being helpful to the town, yet the people attacking me aren't being any more helpful. If you're going to assume I'm scum, you should also assume I'm town and work out who might be scum in the situation. You need to consider all possibilities, and you aren't doing that. No one is.

MoS, there is value in studying relationships between players, but I don't really see your point. Why should we focus on making these assumptions when we don't know your alignment; any connections we do find are meaningless without that knowledge. Once we have that knowledge we don't have to assume, we can actually reason our way through things.

As I said before, it's logic to make all assumptions and see where it leads you. You don't just sit around going "hmm, I don't know whether or not this guy is scum, so I'll just sit here and not think about anyone else besides him until he's dead".

As I just said, this doesn't help particularly. The most you can conclude is "If X is town/scum then y is probably town/scum." Afetr X's alignment is known, the first stage of hypothesisng is not needed and the reasoning process if clearer and more conducive.

[Mastermind of Sin]

If MoS is town, then it is quite likely I would say that scum is/are on his wagon. However, the problem is that MoS has been scummy by his own admission, he says intentionally. As such, I don't think the fact that people have wagoned on MoS is evidence of potential scumminess at this point of the game, because we don't know MoS's alignment. I mean, suspecting one of the wagoners might be valid, but it requires an assumption that MoS is pro-town.

As I said with Tyhess, I fail to see how me doing this intentionally is relevant at all. If I was accidentally scummy, it wouldn't change what I did, and it wouldn't change who was going to attack me. It's not like all the scum could tell the difference between accidental and on purpose. They're going to act the same regardless, for the most part. There are town on every wagon, but people still look for scum on wagons, yes? There is no reason it can't be done in this instance. It's not like I was so obviously scum that no townie in their right minds would stay off my wagon. This is evidenced by the fact that only 4 people have voted me out of 11 possible. I gave the town a wagon, and there is very, very likely to be one scum found on it.

MoS does kind of have a point here; I myself am among those who were not convinced by the case against him. The early accusations of defensiveness seemed to have no basis of me and then things very quickly jumped to him saying it was intentional.

The problem is that nothing MoS has said can be seen to have any basis without knowledge of his alignment. Maybe the wagon is informative to MoS, but it says nothing to the rest of us other than that people chose to wagon on someone who was scummy (though I question the scumminess of MoS at least initially).

MoS, you say this was your plan, presumably you have some idea of how to make it actually function to our benefit? It is no good saying we should focus on the wagonners and not you, because that requires a significant assumption on our part.

Like I have said previously, you don't need to know my alignment to analyze this wagon. This is not a game of absolutes. You can look at all possibilities for my alignment and make conclusions based on what you find out. The wagon on me has very nearly kept everyone from focusing on anyone else in the game, and that's exactly what the scum want. You can't just wait for me to die before looking for scum. When I come up protown, what then? You just wasted an entire day looking at me and no one else. That's what White and Tyhess want us to do, and for all their talk about me not acting in the town's interests, neither are they. It's all double standards when it comes to those two.

[Mastermind of Sin]

MoS does kind of have a point here; I myself am among those who were not convinced by the case against him. The early accusations of defensiveness seemed to have no basis of me and then things very quickly jumped to him saying it was intentional.

This still gets me. It seems that all of the MoS apologists have reduced his actions and the case against him as defensiveness while the case against him is about refusing to cooperate.
For me, this bandwagon is and always has been about pressure. If the town is going to win, it is going to be because EVERYBODY posted content and answered questions. Instead we are rewarding and praising some attention starved, John Wayne wannabe by saying "It's ok if you don't want to talk" and "oh jeez, I don't know why everybody is being so mean to you..."

Instead we have a town that pressures a person that IS talking into shutting the fuck up and doesn't want to pressure somebody that's not talking in order to get them to answer a mounting list of questions.

jtfc.

pwayne, the only person being pressured is me. No one else is being required to supply content or be helpful. White and Tyhess are leading a double-pronged attack on me, and doing nothing else. This game isn't about me. There are more than one scum in this game, and we can't win by looking at one person at a time. You wait until I'm dead to pressure someone else, and you've wasted a day. The cult will have recruited someone, the mafia will have killed someone, and you've lost a lot of opinions that you could have used to find scum. For the latter half of this game, the only momentous discussion has been me defending myself against attacks that don't even make sense half the time. This is not helping the game. If you want to talk about helping the game, do some of it yourself.

[vollkan]

Like I have said previously, you don't need to know my alignment to analyze this wagon. This is not a game of absolutes. You can look at all possibilities for my alignment and make conclusions based on what you find out. The wagon on me has very nearly kept everyone from focusing on anyone else in the game, and that's exactly what the scum want. You can't just wait for me to die before looking for scum. When I come up protown, what then? You just wasted an entire day looking at me and no one else. That's what White and Tyhess want us to do, and for all their talk about me not acting in the town's interests, neither are they. It's all double standards when it comes to those two.

Yes, there is value in that sort of analysis, but it cannot be practically used without alignment knowledge. That's the real problem here.

ie. Trojan's and Oman's votes do look opportunistic and I can see what you are saying about White and Tyhess being somewhat tunnel-visioned. However, because you have been scummy, I can also see how they may be justified in suspecting you and, as such, I don't think them to be wholly unreasonable.

[Mastermind of Sin]

This still gets me. It seems that all of the MoS apologists have reduced his actions and the case against him as defensiveness while the case against him is about refusing to cooperate.

Key word in what I said was

The

early

accusations of defensiveness

I didn't buy that argument which seemed to be the main thrust of the case at the time.

He has refused to co-operate since then, though now he has merged that with his ridiculous "I'll act scummy to trick people" thing. Maybe he sees that as a contribution, though I don't.

You think I'm not contributing? I'm one of the few people that are actually talking about more than one person lately. Nearly everyone that is attacking me has had blinders on for the last few pages. With 3+ people attacking me constantly, I don't really have time for much more than defending myself. Put yourself in my position and see if you would let yourself be lynched while you were off trying to find possible scum. I'm attempting to multitask, but I don't have a lot of breathing room to do it in. The few people that don't buy into my wagon are voices lost in the fog.

For me, this bandwagon is and always has been about pressure. If the town is going to win, it is going to be because EVERYBODY posted content and answered questions. Instead we are rewarding and praising some attention starved, John Wayne wannabe by saying "It's ok if you don't want to talk" and "oh jeez, I don't know why everybody is being so mean to you..."

Don't interpret this as me pandering to his inaction; I have been saying all along that we should pressure MoS. That was the very reason I put him at number 3 on that list, if you remember. I hadn't seen anything notably scummy-defensive from him, which other people said they had, but I could see that his behaviour was odd and he definitely needed to contribute more.

By my count, MoS is at L-1. He shows no signs of making any contribution now that he has placed himself into this "I'll act scummy to attack my wagoners" thing because he sees that as his great contribution. And his posts are definitely beginning to take on a veneer of defensiveness (inc. swearing)

You'd be frustrated too, if people refused to listen to what you said for the last 10 pages or so. Trust me, metagame all you want, you'll find that this reaction is normal for me.

In addition, you yourself have acknowledged that I am not only attacking my wagoners. They are refusing to consider all the options, but I'm watching people who aren't on the wagon as well, as evidenced by your quote of my pressure on Trojan Horse. I'm not the one who is faking contribution, it's the people who are single-mindedly attacking me and doing nothing else.

I see this situation as MoS not being overly suspicious in the sense of not having done anything I would normally characterise as scummy but, simultaneously, he is being consciously making no contribution which is of course anti-town and can be seen as scummy.

How am I consciously making no contribution? I have been responding to the majority of attacks against me while looking for scum both on and off my wagon at the same time. What more do you want from me?

Oh, something else I noticed:

Unvote, Vote: Trojan Horse

This feels way off to me. You hope he doesn't think you're "too" scummy? I see no reason to make a post like this. You've made posts like this earlier, asking me if I was going to attack you now, or something like that. You keep acting like you expect to be scummy, you expect to get heat from other players. It's almost as if you expect to be lynched. Other than these remarks, you haven't seemed that scummy, so I don't see any reason a protown player would be worried about their scumminess. You haven't done anything of note for a townie to worry about.

Trojan was not on your wagon when you voted him (though he is now). If you are so damned sure that scum are on your wagon why did you instead choose to go for the obvious newb?

I'm damned sure that 1 scum is on my wagon. That leaves two more unaccounted for. I am not going to blindly attack the people on my wagon without looking around for other scum slipping under the radar. That would be ludicrous, and it's what the people attacking me are doing. Apply your standards to them, not me.

Trojan Horse is not an obvious newb. Trojan Horse has been around a while, so if you think that's newbishness you're seeing, you'd better look again. Trojan Horse has, now that I look at it, been around Mafiascum

longer than I have

. 3 years does not a newb player make.

Crossed with both of MoS's posts.

You can make as many assumptions as you need to make. You make all the assumptions. Making all the assumptions is better than making no assumptions. Assume I'm scum and work out who my partners might be. People are assuming I'm scum right now, but they aren't even trying to find my partners. I get accused of not being helpful to the town, yet the people attacking me aren't being any more helpful. If you're going to assume I'm scum, you should also assume I'm town and work out who might be scum in the situation. You need to consider all possibilities, and you aren't doing that. No one is.

MoS, there is value in studying relationships between players, but I don't really see your point. Why should we focus on making these assumptions when we don't know your alignment; any connections we do find are meaningless without that knowledge. Once we have that knowledge we don't have to assume, we can actually reason our way through things.

And what happens when protown players are either dead or no longer protown after tonight? What then? There will be even more distractions and misinformation being spread around, in proportion to the genuinely protown people left. Better to get people's opinions on possible connections now than to have them be dead or recruited tomorrow.

As I said before, it's logic to make all assumptions and see where it leads you. You don't just sit around going "hmm, I don't know whether or not this guy is scum, so I'll just sit here and not think about anyone else besides him until he's dead".

As I just said, this doesn't help particularly. The most you can conclude is "If X is town/scum then y is probably town/scum." Afetr X's alignment is known, the first stage of hypothesisng is not needed and the reasoning process if clearer and more conducive.

After X's alignment is known, you can go back to your hypothesis and see which one was accurate. You should not wait to do this until after you have lost the opinions of several players in the game. There is no reason to wait, any urging to the contrary is merely an indication of someone that wants to rush through the lynch without considering other options.

Like I have said previously, you don't need to know my alignment to analyze this wagon. This is not a game of absolutes. You can look at all possibilities for my alignment and make conclusions based on what you find out. The wagon on me has very nearly kept everyone from focusing on anyone else in the game, and that's exactly what the scum want. You can't just wait for me to die before looking for scum. When I come up protown, what then? You just wasted an entire day looking at me and no one else. That's what White and Tyhess want us to do, and for all their talk about me not acting in the town's interests, neither are they. It's all double standards when it comes to those two.

Yes, there is value in that sort of analysis, but it cannot be practically used without alignment knowledge. That's the real problem here.

ie. Trojan's and Oman's votes do look opportunistic and I can see what you are saying about White and Tyhess being somewhat tunnel-visioned. However, because you have been scummy, I can also see how they may be justified in suspecting you and, as such, I don't think them to be wholly unreasonable.

Having one scummy person to attack is not a justification for tunnel-vision. No protown player should ever assume that they are right about one person being scum and that no other options are possible.

[pwayne66]

This game isn't about me. There are more than one scum in this game, and we can't win by looking at one person at a time. You wait until I'm dead to pressure someone else, and you've wasted a day. The cult will have recruited someone, the mafia will have killed someone, and you've lost a lot of opinions that you could have used to find scum. For the latter half of this game, the only momentous discussion has been me defending myself against attacks that don't even make sense half the time. This is not helping the game. If you want to talk about helping the game, do some of it yourself.

This is why I am seriously getting pissed. We have spent all day looking at you and all you have to do to change that is extend the same courtesy to us as we have to you: answer the questions posed to you. YOU have made yourself the number one suspect. YOU brag about this fact. YOU are the one that is forcing us to waste all of our day one resources trying to get questions answered from nearly four pages ago. YOU are not defending yourself. YOU are not answering questions. And YOU have done so intentionally.

If you don't understand the case against you then you are being deliberately obtuse. YOU made the case against you, remember? You have reminded us several times that you created this situation but now you want us to believe that you don't understand it? Which is it: You created this to capture scum, or scum created this to capture you. I won't hold my breath for the answer.

[Mastermind of Sin]

This game isn't about me. There are more than one scum in this game, and we can't win by looking at one person at a time. You wait until I'm dead to pressure someone else, and you've wasted a day. The cult will have recruited someone, the mafia will have killed someone, and you've lost a lot of opinions that you could have used to find scum. For the latter half of this game, the only momentous discussion has been me defending myself against attacks that don't even make sense half the time. This is not helping the game. If you want to talk about helping the game, do some of it yourself.

This is why I am seriously getting pissed. We have spent all day looking at you and all you have to do to change that is extend the same courtesy to us as we have to you: answer the questions posed to you. YOU have made yourself the number one suspect. YOU brag about this fact. YOU are the one that is forcing us to waste all of our day one resources trying to get questions answered from nearly four pages ago. YOU are not defending yourself. YOU are not answering questions. And YOU have done so intentionally.

If I am not defending myself, then why do I have 20+ responses to accusations made against me? I am answering as many of the points brought up against me as I can. Feel free to reiterate anything that I need to respond to.

If you don't understand the case against you then you are being deliberately obtuse. YOU made the case against you, remember? You have reminded us several times that you created this situation but now you want us to believe that you don't understand it? Which is it: You created this to capture scum, or scum created this to capture you. I won't hold my breath for the answer.[/quote]

I created a situation to pull in scum. That is a fact. The difference is, no one except me is willing to even consider this possibility and look for scum. Everyone wants to sit around and wait for me to die before considering any other options. That's not a protown strategy.

Where did I say I didn't understand the situation? I understand the situation. What I don't understand is how people can be so stubbornly single-minded about something that they couldn't possibly know to be true yet.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Also, pwayne, don't talk to me about getting pissed. You're not possibly as pissed as I am right now. I nearly asked for replacement due to the ridiculousness of this game, but I instead had the person who would replace me agree to replace acfan, so that we had more active players.

[pwayne66]

I am answering as many of the points brought up against me as I can. Feel free to reiterate anything that I need to respond to.

So you have changed this position as well?

Sure I'm evading questions. It's fun, and it draws scum out of the woodwork as the react to it.

I have brought up the questions. I'm going to bed. I'll find them in the morning.

[vollkan]

You think I'm not contributing? I'm one of the few people that are actually talking about more than one person lately. Nearly everyone that is attacking me has had blinders on for the last few pages. With 3+ people attacking me constantly, I don't really have time for much more than defending myself. Put yourself in my position and see if you would let yourself be lynched while you were off trying to find possible scum. I'm attempting to multitask, but I don't have a lot of breathing room to do it in. The few people that don't buy into my wagon are voices lost in the fog.

You intentionally act scummy, people hop on your wagon, you defend yourself and you call that a contribution? If you hadn't made this ridiculous play we could be actually doing this in a normal and more productive manner. Instead, you have brought the focus onto yourself by this ploy and are now getting irate about the fact that people have responded to you.

In addition, you yourself have acknowledged that I am not only attacking my wagoners. They are refusing to consider all the options, but I'm watching people who aren't on the wagon as well, as evidenced by your quote of my pressure on Trojan Horse. I'm not the one who is faking contribution, it's the people who are single-mindedly attacking me and doing nothing else.

Which just shows that this wagon thing is pointless...

How am I consciously making no contribution? I have been responding to the majority of attacks against me while looking for scum both on and off my wagon at the same time. What more do you want from me?

Okay, for scum off your wagon your target was Trojan. Hardly a particularly strong ground for suspicion either.

For scum on your wagon, anything you say is useless to us because WE DON'T KNOW YOUR ALIGNMENT! Saying "X is on my wagon and looks scummy to me for it" is useless to the rest of us. It doesn't help.

Trojan Horse is not an obvious newb. Trojan Horse has been around a while, so if you think that's newbishness you're seeing, you'd better look again. Trojan Horse has, now that I look at it, been around Mafiascum longer than I have. 3 years does not a newb player make.

You're right. I saw "townperson" and so I immediately assumed newb.

And what happens when protown players are either dead or no longer protown after tonight? What then? There will be even more distractions and misinformation being spread around, in proportion to the genuinely protown people left. Better to get people's opinions on possible connections now than to have them be dead or recruited tomorrow.

After X's alignment is known, you can go back to your hypothesis and see which one was accurate. You should not wait to do this until after you have lost the opinions of several players in the game. There is no reason to wait, any urging to the contrary is merely an indication of someone that wants to rush through the lynch without considering other options.

Okay, I agree with you here, but each of these involves your own death.

Having one scummy person to attack is not a justification for tunnel-vision. No protown player should ever assume that they are right about one person being scum and that no other options are possible.

Good point.

I believe I will do a reread of Tyhess and White and see what I think.

[pwayne66]

UNVOTE:MoS

for now...

I don't know if it is really lynch -1 or not but... now... I am really going to bed.

[Mastermind of Sin]

This may indeed result in my own death, but not before we've looked at other people. At the very least, my pointing out who is probably scum will let you know who to look at the most, because when I come up protown you'll be able to trust everything I have said.

May I also point out that not a single person has asked me to claim yet, which shows that they

intend to railroad me to death without getting a claim first

. This is

NOT

protown.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Also,

Unvote, Vote: Tyhess

He still has things to answer for. He has been deliberately ignoring some of the things I have been saying, including a few specific questions that I have asked him. For all his attacking me for not answer question, he certainly is doing a good job of not being useful himse.f

[vollkan]

May I also point out that not a single person has asked me to claim yet, which shows that they intend to railroad me to death without getting a claim first. This is NOT protown.

I considered doing so, but I wanted to wait to see how the other people reacted to you being at L-1 before I did. In case any of them (ie. Pwayne has now done it) decided to unvote or something. I figured it would be bad if you claimed and we hadn't seen how people responded to you being at L-1 and, also, that if you had claimed a power role when people might have wanted to unvote then it could have been needless.