SAGA FRONTIER MAFIA (GAME END)

[Drixx]

It's beyond a shadow of a doubt a dramatic shift from his normal day one posting. Generally if you ask him about players on day one, he is willing to evaluate them, but inevitably he reverts to not really having reads because his approach requires having knowledge of flips and how people interacted with, voted for, defended or attacked the flipped parties. Having none of that, he made what looks a lot like a reads list with reasons. I didn't feel like that post was his usual "I can see these reasons why X person might be town, but also there's some other reasons to think they might be scum, so I can't really tell" results.

Fluminator soft defending him by saying that Cerb's meta must have changed a lot since they last played is what brought me round to suspecting it may actually be something to suspect. Cerberus has an absurdly stable meta (in and out of hydra), and I simply don't believe anyone could say with a straight face that they played with Cerberus before and suggest that he was different then from what Spifflop said in #319.

Whatever the reason, Cerberus is way more aggressive this game and willing to give his thinking on players much more readily and what he said is much less wishy washy than usual. The question then becomes why the change. Until Flum threw out that absurd soft defense, I was watching to see if it was just influence by Wgeurts or Cerb perhaps taking advantage of being in hydra with someone less like himself to try and work on his day one game.

[Rylai and Lina]

@drixx, that should be handled privately.

whats a universal miller ? We show "Not town" to everyone ...

~Rylai

A universal miller returns scum regardless of the type of investigation. For instance, you would be tracked to every kill, show as guilty to any cop, have a gun to any GS etc.

A gravedigger shows up as guilty to watchers and trackers.

So when you state you have a miller modifier, this is very very unclear.

If you only give false positives to cops, then you're just a miller. Miller modifier is unnecessarily confusing.

~Titus

I find it weird that you would question that Titus.

Not only I had already said that we are ust a miller a few posts above but you should have been aware that FA english are a bit weird sometimes. Not a single other person got confused, what gives?

~Lina

[Fluminator]

@Maxwell: I'm on my phone so quoting is too much of a pain, but I mentioned I thought someone's scum read was fake, and they ask me if I really think they plan to push my wagon to a lynch. It was out of the blue and didn't make much sense to me.

I'm confused why Drixx is saying I'm defending them? It's not the intent since I find them a little off myself.
About the meta, I played a game with cerb a long time ago and I distinctly remember him being one of the more proactive and talkative guys who wasn't afraid to give his opinions. If that's not the case anymore, his meta has changed.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I can't remember which one is Shiro and which is FA why don't you guys just sign your original account names?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Drixx, the ONLY thing about that post that was super firm was what I said about you. Do you know what the difference between you and every other player I was asked to evaluate is? Hundreds of hours of taking in real time, a few games hydraing together, and a dozen or more games together in a very different environment, PLUS massive insight into how you approach games in general through paying cooperatively with you over multiple genres of games.

Damn fucking straight I can evaluate the shit out of you on D1.

Everybody else, not so much.

So yes, if you want to call my willingness to firmly establish a fucking null read on you with 20 posts to work with a change in my meta, you're welcome to do so, but you know it's reflective of the unique nature of our relationship, and not a change in my gameplay.

I don't believe I have *ever* been asked to evaluate just you in a game on this site. There is no precedent.

Also, thank you for the ego boost.

-Cerb

[Rylai and Lina]

I can't remember which one is Shiro and which is FA why don't you guys just sign your original account names?

Fun ^_^

~Lina

[Drunken Pirates]

I am very particular about miller claims and negative utility roles. It's doubly important because of the language barrier. I have won by not being clear about my own negative utility AND fucked up before.

Miller doesn't preclude the other options. There's zero harm in clarifying.

I will suppose you are a plain miller and a tracker guilty means lynch.

~Titus

[Rylai and Lina]

I am very particular about miller claims and negative utility roles. It's doubly important because of the language barrier. I have won by not being clear about my own negative utility AND fucked up before.

Miller doesn't preclude the other options. There's zero harm in clarifying.

I will suppose you are a plain miller and a tracker guilty means lynch.

~Titus

Fair enough, I just got a little whaaat becuase I have you in high regards and was like what's up with Titus not realising this ? seems kinda odd.

By all manes if you like get a tracker guilty all bets are off

~Lina

[ZZZX]

@ZZZX We were discussing about it that is why. We concluded it is best to just get it over with.

~Lina

why not claim in first post and instead claim later on? did you change your mind or was it a case of forgetness btw?

well we were talking with each other to make sure both of us are agreed to publish it or not - Hydra stuff

pedit : what lina said

~Rylai

Wow.... there is so much happening here.. I am so confused. I dont know where to begin on day1.

shit this what happens when i come back after months..

And

Varson

What a lovely setup, i dont know where to begin to appreciate your efforts for this setup. God bless you[/b]

don't you mean krishna

and you know I am going to be looking at your reads so there is no way I am going to let you play dumb cos I know for a fact that you aren't!

I have missed you arc.

zzthing, there is going to be some adjustment with this hydra. you know titus and are like night and day so it shld be expected that there is gonna be some dissonance. we have a system worked out and when she posted I texted her and was like "remember our agreement!". give us some space plz to work things out a bit.

ignoring wont get anything good. afterall this is mafia and we need to know each others allignments..

Mollie i dont think u answered me. are you town?

I did answer you zzthing, it is in my iso! it is like the second post I made I think.

for the good of humanity i am going to mostly ignore him. I already have a read on him anyway he is a town lean cos when abr is scum he is positively saintly when he town he doesn't give a shit who he pisses off.

At all of those posts: Mkay.

Just make sure to get everything under control people

[MaxwellPuckett]

@Maxwell: I'm on my phone so quoting is too much of a pain, but I mentioned I thought someone's scum read was fake, and they ask me if I really think they plan to push my wagon to a lynch. It was out of the blue and didn't make much sense to me.

I'm confused why Drixx is saying I'm defending them? It's not the intent since I find them a little off myself.
About the meta, I played a game with cerb a long time ago and I distinctly remember him being one of the more proactive and talkative guys who wasn't afraid to give his opinions. If that's not the case anymore, his meta has changed.

Okay, I know what post you're talking about here then, thanks.
Your mention of how Drixx' meta had supposedly changed did come off as a bit of a defense, though. What's your read on him?

Drixx, the ONLY thing about that post that was super firm was what I said about you. Do you know what the difference between you and every other player I was asked to evaluate is? Hundreds of hours of taking in real time, a few games hydraing together, and a dozen or more games together in a very different environment, PLUS massive insight into how you approach games in general through paying cooperatively with you over multiple genres of games.

Damn fucking straight I can evaluate the shit out of you on D1.

Everybody else, not so much.

So yes, if you want to call my willingness to firmly establish a fucking null read on you with 20 posts to work with a change in my meta, you're welcome to do so, but you know it's reflective of the unique nature of our relationship, and not a change in my gameplay.

I don't believe I have *ever* been asked to evaluate just you in a game on this site. There is no precedent.

Also, thank you for the ego boost.

-Cerb

This conversation has me agreeing with one of you, and then the other says something and I want to agree with them instead. You both just sound like you know what you're talking about, makes things a bit difficult. It doesn't help that I'm used to thinking of Drixx and Cerb as the same slot. I'm very sorry guys, but you seemed to get along well enough that I never bothered to think of you two as separate players, so now I don't know which parts of your personality are which. Hopefully this game will remedy that.

Maybe exact quotes would help? Proof of these reads/opinions? Off the top of my head, I don't remember Cerb putting down actual reads for the players he talked about, but if you guys are saying that concrete opinions on day 1 (not just reads) are out of character, (really really out of character? i dont know) then I think I can understand why you have problems.

[ZZZX]

if mollie and DGB are scum. this is GG.

Why?

Noone of Mollie/DGB have obv towned them selves so much that they cant be scum. assuming otherwise is hurtful for the town. this is page 9.

Aka im not like this remark honestly

[ZZZX]

Oh boy. I forgot how fast these threads go.

except this game is relatively slow compared to some other games i had recently..

[ZZZX]

ZZZX is the only person I think I've seen before so far and he's already posted more in this game than all my other games with him combined. I think that's a good thing?

Lel.

Originally before the grand lurk/uni incident I was regarded as one of the spammiest players. which is what made me... me.

Lurking just doesnt suit me at all. and this spam is what gives me the power to read and plan.

But its not the most allignment indicative for me I believe. Just saying

[ZZZX]

Also Mollie I don't think I have pushed for a town bloc since Team Mafia after the scarring events of mentioned game.

Our block in TM helped. but that was another game from yours.

[Rylai and Lina]

@drixx, that should be handled privately.

whats a universal miller ? We show "Not town" to everyone ...

~Rylai

A universal miller returns scum regardless of the type of investigation. For instance, you would be tracked to every kill, show as guilty to any cop, have a gun to any GS etc.

A gravedigger shows up as guilty to watchers and trackers.

So when you state you have a miller modifier, this is very very unclear.

If you only give false positives to cops, then you're just a miller. Miller modifier is unnecessarily confusing.

~Titus

No we will be shown "not town" to all type of investigations.

~Rylai

[ZZZX]

I need to start keeping track of things

TOWN

DrippingGoofball
Albert B. Rampage
Drixx
DiamondSentinel
Drunken Pirates (Titus & Pirate Mollie)
Spifflop (Hiplop & Spiffeh)
The Cool Cucumbers (wgeurts & cerberus v666) >>> also awesome, just sayin'

NEUTRAL

Rylai and Lina (Shiro & Frozen Angel) >>> leaning town but have misgivings

SCUM

Fluminator
ArcAngel9 (too much schmoozing)

LURKERS, LEPERS and UNWASHED MASSES

Klingoncelt
Sharky5x
Yimmy
Wickedestjr
Skybird
CooLDoG
MaxwellPuckett
Yosarian2
Lowkey (Lowell & Hinduragi)
Sensei
ZZZX

>>>ZZZZX
>>>LURKER
>>>TOP POSTER



I am starting to doubt you are not reading this game dbg and you are applying la sterotype

[ZZZX]

I can't believe you've put me in with the players who haven't posted yet, and ZZZX. I think I'm actually crying.

Am confused if I should read this as :

Why did you put me and ZZZX

or

Why did you put me with ZZZX



Eitherway yes. that readlist was bad.

[Rylai and Lina]

I can't remember which one is Shiro and which is FA why don't you guys just sign your original account names?

I told that like a thousands time already! I'm Frozen Angel - Ice queen - Crystal maiden - Rylai in dota ...

remember!

~Rylai

[ZZZX]

Cucumber hydra is prop town.

[ZZZX]

I HATE THIS POST. Cerb is doing WAY too well establishing reads for my liking. Cerb hates day one, absolutely disgusts it. This is a guy who spends entire phases not voting because he can't come up with associations. This post does not read like that. Why? probably because he knows who is town and who isn't.

VOTE: cerb

I understand flummer thing but I honestly think that might be scumdriven a bit, specifically by cerb. I don't like this at all. I'm behind a page but league game just started and panzer is mad at me. will get back to this in 30 mins or so

interesting point of view should I say.
do you have game links for him when he does what you said he does?

[ZZZX]

... on other notes ABR might be town.

You can't be serious.

ZZZX is always serious

and town...

maybe the former is only true for all cases

but both are true here

[The Cool Cucumbers]

'allo ZZZX. Let's talk
Do you have any scum reads or suspicions right now?
~wgeurts

[Rylai and Lina]

I can't remember which one is Shiro and which is FA why don't you guys just sign your original account names?

I told that like a thousands time already! I'm Frozen Angel - Ice queen - Crystal maiden - Rylai in dota ...

rememer


~Rylai

I put it in our sig my frost breathen.

Will save us from answering it again and again

P.edit

He is kinda dead zzx. Can answer.
~Lina

[ZZZX]

Which head are you LiquidLeoq errr Shiro?
Rylai or Lina?

Already answered Rylai = Frozen Angel / Lina =Shiro

The miller hydra is weird. They claim miller modifier. Straight up is that gravedigger, miller, universal miller? Also, why did they only ask Mollie for her meta when there are two heads.

We did. we have a miller modifier.

because I'm "Frozen Angel" and I never played with her before. I played with you Titus! remember me?

going to eat breakfast ... will be here for sharing my couple of reads and notes so far!

~Rylai

Why do you i feel that the next time someone asks which head is who yours gone expload

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Shiro could you change your posting default to include your sig automatically for those that can't tell the difference?