Mini 474 - Bergamo Bump-Off (Game Over!)

[Muerrto]

also, what are the chances the scum would randomly (on N1) roleblock someone, and then again do so twice?

Randomly? WTF. He claimed cop on day 1, why would it be random?

Also, drop the hostility I already said since you're Pless I've pretty much ruled you out as scum so I'm not trying to accuse you of anything but trying to understand your posts.

[Karen]

yeah, i can't find the post where he RC'd. can you give me the post #?

also, i'm 100% certain he's not the cop.

[death_omen]

post number 304..

[Muerrto]

Honestly, I keep saying Karen is Pless and therefore not scum but then again, Pless could've just been that good. Trying to bring suspiscion and even voting DO is crazy. But claiming the role block was random and that she can't even find DO's RC? I mean. I'm definitely

FoS: Karen

pending some other wild post.

My only other suspects right now really are Hjalti, for always following the wagon and Vamp because he never posts. But Vamps situation has kept him from doing so and that's changed so we'll have to see what he does over the next couple days.

Also, I'll be on vacation till monday or tuesday so please don't quick lynch someone before then. Thanks.

[somestrangeflea]

when did i say DO was the SK?

He's not necessarily mafia, since he could be the other killer (SK?)

Which, even if you are only speculating on the possibility of an SK, is still contradictory with:

I say we rule out the possibility of the SK.

FoS: Karen

[vampyrusddg]

Okay, after having a thorough re-read My top suspects are (in order):

Hjallti: There was some major distancing going on between him and Malc, which carried on smoothly after the transition to Aimee, as though it had been a running plan all along (transfered PMs between malc-Hjallti could have passed this plan along to Aimee. The whole Malc/D_O argument did seem to drop away though) Also the willingness to jump in and bus the godfather (VH) to make him look clean when it became clear that VH could be in for the lynch at the deadline.

SSF: seems to have avoided almost all arguments through the game, sitting on the fence for a lot of it and swaying with the general crowd when needed, good cover if he's the SK.

Ples/Karen: Nothing really solid but more gut feeling than anything else. Ples was a hell of a good player and his play seemed too good almost. Seemed almost like he was breadcrumbing something on day 1, if I were scum I would have probably picked him off Night 1 rather than DS whose role came as a suprise to me. Why didn't the scum hit him instead?

General comments on the current situation:

Our last remaining scum is obviously also the roleblocker, giving him a RB and NK each night now but with 2 scum down we do have a little breathing room for a mistake,this could change quickly though factoring in the SK on the loose. We're in a slightly disadvantaged (town-wise) C9 situation power wise but have the advantage of 29 pages of posts to scour through. We can afford one mislynch (leaving 2 town, 1 SK, 1 mafia, presuming the 2 killers don't hit each other) which one we hit first doesn't really matter, once the mafia RBer is gone DOs investigation won't find the SK

in conclusion:

vote: Hjallti

[death_omen]

Im not so sure if Hjati is scum because unlinke some he actually bussed the Godfather when he didnt really have to. He could have just not voted for him.

I am more suspicious of Karen I think he is the sk, because he took over Plessiez and i always thought that guy could be the evil one.

So atm: Karen is my play for the sk role.

[vampyrusddg]

Im not so sure if Hjati is scum because unlinke some he actually bussed the Godfather when he didnt really have to. He could have just not voted for him.

to me thats what added to my suspicion, it was pretty clear that there weren't many other good cases for lynches other than VH's, most of the town looking at the deadline would want to see a lynch happen so we had at least a shot at catching scum, when this became obvious he jumped on so he could look cleaner going into today, could be just town with bad timing but I'm betting it's not.

[Karen]

kill me.

if pless were anything but vanilla, do you think he'd ask for a replacement?

i'm too good of a sport to ask for a replacement, since it just makes things crappier for the game in general.

BUT, if you don't think i'm vanilla, then vote me off (obviously knowing people are going to say i'm using reverse psychology, but who cares).

die you scum!

[Hjallti]

First of all, I thought the number of possibilities was limited by the mods reference to the normal rules. post 690.

So I don't understand this post:

Like I said, plain roles are not this mod's cup of tea so a plain cop would be strange. And being blocked night after night just means he never has to come up with an investigation. So the evidence is stacked against him to be sure.

From the fact the mod even linked to the Normal rules, I understand that we in fact have only normal roles. I would find it very misleading if he would point to these rules, but wouldn't have used them.

Muerrto, Could you elaborate why you still think we have not a normal cop?
Karen, I don't see your bomb theory coincide with these normal rules. Could you point out a normal game using a bomb, or so?

Muerrto,
Care to explain why this goes for you and not for me?

Aimee was the one who was claiming you were scum right?
(I am fairly sure she was but right now I am too lazy to pull up a new window simply for the purpose of confirming this)

Yes. Not to use WIFOM to try and prove my innocence but that means if I'm scum then Aimee called out BOTH her partners in one swoop since both her and VH were scum.

That'd be...interesting to say the least.

indeed interesting. The first real FoS on me came from Aimee (#621) and was metagaming. Although I didn't get the suspicion away, it is not really clear to me what was so scummy.

It is strange that vampyrusddg calls in distancing as a scumtell, in this context. Aimee clearly had a hidden agenda attacking me, but this would be more the case if I were town than scum (to be clear: I am just answering vampyrusddg accusition here, the WIFOM is his part not mine). Calling it distancing is WIFOM (calling it a towntell as well-of course).

Unvote

D_O, if you don't have any results tomorrow, you're a dead man.

death_omen claimed under pressure.

We are 2 days later and we still have no results.

@ death_omen

Has anyone noticed that Nelly has really slipped under the radar as suspicion has been cast of him. I dont really get what he did to get everyone of his case. So I'm gonna re-instate:

Unvote
Vote: Nelly632

Why do you start day 3 with letting Nelly slip under the radar? What was the reason for that late (useless?) vote, and why didn't you reinstate it day 3, even not as FoS?

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Vote Count:

death_omen - 1 (Karen)
Hjallti - 1 (vampyrusddg)


Not Voting - 5 (death_omen, Hjallti, Muerrto, Nelly632, somestrangeflea)

4 to lynch

[somestrangeflea]

death_omen claimed under pressure.

We are 2 days later and we still have no results.

Indeed, however (and I'm relatively sure I explained this earlier when... I think it was Seraphic who brought it up) I was convinced by how he claimed his lack of result on day 2. I had, in my own head, predicted that, if he was lying, he'd have been much more panicky than he was.

Of course, now that we're two days in, d_o's lack of anything does make me slightly uncomfortable...

[somestrangeflea]

EDWOP:

Yeah, Seraphic brought it up in Post 388, and I reponded in 389.

[death_omen]

kill me.

if pless were anything but vanilla, do you think he'd ask for a replacement?

i'm too good of a sport to ask for a replacement, since it just makes things crappier for the game in general.

BUT, if you don't think i'm vanilla, then vote me off (obviously knowing people are going to say i'm using reverse psychology, but who cares).

die you scum!

That is completely untrue, look at Malchonn he asked to be replaced and he turned out to be a mafia goon. So please get your fact rights..

As for Hijati I think we need a role claim from you, there could not necessarily be a scum roleblocker but instead

whenever I investigate scum it just comes back as a fail.

That is what im thinking could be happening now, I investigated Malchonn Night 1 got back a fail and he turned out a mafia goon, I invesitgated you Night 2 and got back another fail and you could just about be scum as well.

So i'll reinstate the prior state and add some to it.
IMO:

Remaining Scum: Hijati
Serial Killer: Karen

[somestrangeflea]

As for Hijati I think we need a role claim from you, there could not necessarily be a scum roleblocker but instead

whenever I investigate scum it just comes back as a fail.

But a Cop with that kind of sanity doesn't really fit under the category of a "Normal" role in a Closed setup. The possibility of there being either a scum Roleblocker, or you lying, outweighs the possibility of that role significantly.

Also, you seem to be pushing the "this is definately my sanity" far too hard, considering that sanities are meant to be completely unknown to players...

[Muerrto]

if pless were anything but vanilla, do you think he'd ask for a replacement?

You mean like Malchonn the vanilla..oh wait, he was scum wasn't he? This is not only WIFOM but doesn't even fit the current game.

First of all, I thought the number of possibilities was limited by the mods reference to the normal rules. post 690.

So I don't understand this post:

Like I said, plain roles are not this mod's cup of tea so a plain cop would be strange. And being blocked night after night just means he never has to come up with an investigation. So the evidence is stacked against him to be sure.

From the fact the mod even linked to the Normal rules, I understand that we in fact have only normal roles. I would find it very misleading if he would point to these rules, but wouldn't have used them.

Muerrto, Could you elaborate why you still think we have not a normal cop?
Karen, I don't see your bomb theory coincide with these normal rules. Could you point out a normal game using a bomb, or so?

You got me there. I've even been contacted by the mod. This is my first mini and I had no clue he had to use set roles. Our other site never uses normal roles. But then again, I've said all along that DO's claim seems real, only that I thought it was weird we'd have a normal cop. Since I'm wrong about that I definitely still support DO.

Muerrto,
Care to explain why this goes for you and not for me?

Aimee was the one who was claiming you were scum right?
(I am fairly sure she was but right now I am too lazy to pull up a new window simply for the purpose of confirming this)

Yes. Not to use WIFOM to try and prove my innocence but that means if I'm scum then Aimee called out BOTH her partners in one swoop since both her and VH were scum.

That'd be...interesting to say the least.

indeed interesting. The first real FoS on me came from Aimee (#621) and was metagaming. Although I didn't get the suspicion away, it is not really clear to me what was so scummy.

You're absolutely correct again. She did call you out as well. Not as much as me but she did call you out. But she ALSO called out Vampdog and yet you're stating suspiscion of him in this very post, so you're doing the same thing I was doing.

But it's still not necessarily clearing you. Check her posts. She said if VH comes up scum she'd think I was scum. She knew VH was scum, plus he was already on the chopping block at that moment. Knowing he was scum she was setting me up for lynch on day 3. Thank god it didn't work.


But even though you're not 100% cleared I'll have to agree, her calling you or Vampdog out at the same time she called out VH makes me alot more hesitant to vote either one of you.

[Hjallti]

@muerrto:

yet you're stating suspiscion of him (=vampdog) in this very post, so you're doing the same thing I was doing.

granted.

As for Hijati I think we need a role claim from you, there could not necessarily be a scum roleblocker but instead whenever I investigate scum it just comes back as a fail.

You shouldn't use statistics on to small data. Of course it is true what you say. But it is also true that

'whenever you investigated yourself you got scum as answer'

, and the step from that sentence to your conclusion is hardly more convincing than concluding from my sentence that you are scum.

Who is that Hijati-bloke who your talking of anyway?

@death_omen as well: Could you answer my question about voting Nelly632 at the end of the previous day? I would like to hear why you did it then and not did it again now.

This is my first mini and I had no clue he had to use set roles.

Without trying to outguess the mod we should get the logical possibilities straight I guess.

With the set rules we have:
Due to second NK

an SK

((Two mafia seems to me excluded from the fact they don't get different names. (Although it would make Aimee's busses a bit more transparent), Two Vigs would be strange))
Due to death_omens failures (I think in a normal the cop is sane?):
Either false claiming death_omen (is a surviver normal enough? if not he is scum or SK)
Or a roleblocker who is probably not a townie (is a lyncher possible with as lynchee death_omen=cop? if not we have a mafia roleblocker).

from this I get as two most likely setups (both 1SK, 1scum, 5 (town or neutral))

*1scum, 1SK (death_omen is one of them), 5 town (or neutral)
*1scum role blocker, 1SK, death_omen cop, 4town (or neutral)

This means a kind of C9, with more power roles, not 1 mafia but two anti-town players not playing together and 29 pages of content.

[death_omen]

@death_omen as well: Could you answer my question about voting Nelly632 at the end of the previous day? I would like to hear why you did it then and not did it again now.

I didnt really understand why everyone took of their votes against him so I reinforced mine, he didnt really have seemed to have done enough to get himself of the hook in my eyes. He still is guilty of a bit of lurking since then as he hasn't posted anything substianal. So my suspicious list stands:

First Karen then you and also add Nelly to the fray.

[death_omen]

As for the mis spelt name Im sorry lol, but I just got used to calling you Hijati so much. From now on I won't make that mistake again: Hjallti.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Bueller...?

Bueller...?

Bueller...?


Translation: Deadline coming if activity doesn't pick up soon!

[Muerrto]

Shrug, IMO DO, myself, Hjalti, and Vampdog are cleared at the moment(I put myself in there because in MY opinion I'm cleared of course). That leaves Flea, Nelly, and Karen.

Flea - 1 liners but has also had alot of good logical follow through in his thoughts. Especially recently his posts seem town.

Nelly - I hope he's just newbie town and the hammer was a legitimate mistake. I'm not ready to lynch him yet. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt for now.

Karen - Well, she's Pless and he certainly

seemed

town. But she on the other hand...

however, i do feel that VampanezeHunter is pro-town (due to his negligence apathy, and lack of fight), and am very suspicious of a bandwagon that all of a sudden has formed on this ONE page alone, when there are 26 others.

Guys, death_omen is definitely not pro-town. He's not necessarily mafia, since he could be the other killer (SK?) from the non-mafia N2 kill.

when did i say DO was the SK? thank you for not quoting me, and completely making up a quote of me???

also, what are the chances the scum would randomly (on N1) roleblock someone, and then again do so twice?

yeah, i can't find the post where he RC'd. can you give me the post #?

also, i'm 100% certain he's not the cop.

if pless were anything but vanilla, do you think he'd ask for a replacement?

All of this together is just a bit too much all in a little over 2 pages.

All this leads me to now

Vote: Karen

What does everyone else think? I DON'T want a deadline.

[death_omen]

Yep I agree as i stated above Karen IMO is the way to go due to Plessiez character at the beginning of the game and Karen's attitude now.

Vote:Karen

[Muerrto]

Yep I agree as i stated above Karen IMO is the way to go due to Plessiez character at the beginning of the game and Karen's attitude now.

Vote:Karen

Yeah, the extreme difference in playstyles is a bit much.

[Nelly632]

I am going to go with Muerrto & D.O on this thing here, I personally feel that Muerrto is good in my book now because of Aimee wouldn't have attacked both of her scum buddies and since she clearly attacked one and he proved to be scum I have to logically assume that Muerrto is town. Also since D.O has claimed cop I have to go with him until he is proven otherwise, while my questions regarding him not getting a decent result back from his investigations are starting to weigh on my head I can only trust him currently...

Unvote: Vote: Karen

[somestrangeflea]

Shrug, IMO DO, myself, Hjalti, and Vampdog are cleared at the moment

Uh, why?

I personally feel that Muerrto is good in my book now because of Aimee wouldn't have attacked both of her scum buddies and since she clearly attacked one and he proved to be scum I have to logically assume that Muerrto is town.

No you don't...

Also since D.O has claimed cop I have to go with him until he is proven otherwise

No you don't...

HoS: Nelly

for assuming that too many people are innocent, and for blatant bandwaggoning. Generally acting as if you have information we don't.

FoS: Muerrto

for the first of the above.

FomS: D_O

for the second of the above, a bit...