[OLD] Open Setup Discussion and Nominations

[Kelly Chen]

I assume you're saying the mafia get two kills a night at first.

I think that setup would be very swingy. Three antitown-controlled kills and a town role that can cause an arbitrary death.

If the town isn't accidentally obliterated then it's possible it could swing the other way. Two sane cops is a lot, generally, and there's a doc and a night watchman (not sure exactly what role you have in mind here) in addition. In any case that's a lot of town power that they can get lucky with. They could catch more scum than they have kills to deal with...

I didn't fully understand your description of how mafia powers change.

[Sir Tornado]

No Press Mafia

*3 Scum
*5 Vanilla Townies.

The scum cannot talk with each other. Each night, each scum should PM the mod the name of the person they want to NK. If any two scum PM the same person, the person dies, otherwise, there is no kill. After the night ends, the mod will inform each scum who chose who for the NK. There should be no pre-game discussion between the scum either.l

After 2 scum are killed, the game ceases to have any night (that is no NKs)

speedlynch and then discuss in twilight who to kill

duh

Well, some games have rules where you can't discuss anything in twilight.

[Aimee]

I don't really agree with setups that don't permit the scum to talk at night.

[VampanezeHunter]

Yea. Thanks Kelly Chan. I'll maybe think of another one. Might do might not.

[Mr. Flay]

Not discussing at night is okay (not great) in In Person games, because there's a chance you can communicate when no one is looking. But when EVERYTHING has to be in code, in thread, for everyone to see, it shifts the balance considerably...

See: Hobbit Mafia, Mafia Mafia (I think that was the title of it, with Mafia as the Uninformed Majority and evil Townies). I've played two of these, would not willingly play another.

[Sir Tornado]

Well, we have a nightless mafia running right now as an open game where I think the scum aren't allowed to talk anytime during the game... don't know about the pre-game stage.

[Kelly Chen]

I think it probably does adjust the balance, although personally I would prefer never to discuss strategy with my scum partners... I don't want to feel like I've agreed to play in a certain way.

[Mr. Flay]

Well, in fairness my dissatisfaction with non-talking Scum groups is when the group also has to make a collective decision, which happened in both those games. Having a Godfather/Decider would have made that much less onerous:

The Troll Mafia in Hobbit couldn't talk at night, and we had to all three agree somehow on what our nightkill would be. If two of the three of us agreed, we had a 50% chance to kill.

The Pro-Town scum group I was part of in Mafia Mafia (the other was made up of Law Enforcement roles, and more normal) had their nightkill decided by whoever that group voted for most during the day. Again, fairly easily trackable.

[Simenon]

Nominate 3:3:6 Nightless

[Aimee]

Is the "Open Games" category on the Wiki meant to be a category for completed Open Games or Open Setups (or both)?

[Aimee]

Nominate 3:3:6 Nightless

Second.

[Max]

Unlyncher

The Unlyncher is the opposite from a lyncher and must prevent a player from being lynched. However if unlyncher is lynched the unlyncher loses

1 Unlyncher
4 Townie

What do you think

I had another unlycher set-up

1 Unlyncher
1 Lyncher
3 Townies
2 Mafia

Nightless

[Kelly Chen]

Unlyncher

The Unlyncher is the opposite from a lyncher and must prevent a player from being lynched. However if unlyncher is lynched the unlyncher loses

1 Unlyncher
4 Townie

What do you think

Interesting idea I think. I take it the town wins if they kill either the Unlyncher or the "Target."

Balance-wise you have to consider that at the final 3, the town has a two-thirds chance of

winning

.

With your setup the unlyncher only has a 10% chance of winning, it seems to me (3/5 * 2/4 * 1/3, given random lynching of course).

(I am assuming the unlyncher wins by getting everybody else lynched.)

[Max]

yeah apart from the target.
Although it could be interesting if the unlyncher is dead and the target is alive he wins

[Raffles]

Mafia: Double Agent (beta)

1 Mafia Goon
1 Cop traitor
1 Cop
6 Townies

Special Mechanics:
The town cop's investigation is revealed to the mafia team (while the traitor is alive)
The traitor's investigation is revealed to the mafia team
The traitor shows as guilty on investigation.

-------------------------------------------------------------

The reason this is beta being I'm wondering whether I should add a doc or not, and whether I should make the goon a roleblocker. Both sounds like a bit of powerplay to me, so I don't like it much...

If this goes through, I'd like to mod it.

[Aimee]

I'd definitely give more Mafia. 1 vs 7/8 is too hard to get a win from.

[Raffles]

It's 2 vs 7. Traitor is mafia aligned.

[Kelly Chen]

Why is the town cop's investigation revealed to the mafia? To make it easier for scum to find each other?

I can't see adding a doctor to that setup, even if it were two goons. And a scum roleblocker is pretty unnecessary with no doctor.

[Raffles]

Good, I didn't agree with those extra roles either.

The initial reason town cop investigation is revealed is the part of the theme. But then I realized that by adding this, those three roles has to be very clever about what they do. Scum initially is at disadvantage, because they can't talk to each other. Traitor might want to paly by making it obvious enough for the cop to investigate him and send signal to the scum, but not scummy enough to warrant a lynch. Cop needs to be

very clever

about how he goes about in the game, for example too much correlation between what he says and his investigation could potentially bust him out. Essentially he needs to find a whole new way of playing one. Goon is left to his own survival skills, at least for the beginning. Town needs to be more on the ball than usual to see through the new strategy. So I think this set up would involve a far more tactical play than your everyday mafia. And that the name just sounds so cool.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Final setup

Mafia: Double Agent

1 Mafia Goon
1 Cop traitor
1 Cop
6 Townies

Special Mechanics:
The town cop's investigation is revealed to the mafia team (while the traitor is alive)
The traitor's investigation is revealed to the mafia team
The traitor shows as guilty on investigation.

[Kelly Chen]

Good, I didn't agree with those extra roles either.

The initial reason town cop investigation is revealed is the part of the theme. But then I realized that by adding this, those three roles has to be very clever about what they do. Scum initially is at disadvantage, because they can't talk to each other. Traitor might want to paly by making it obvious enough for the cop to investigate him and send signal to the scum, but not scummy enough to warrant a lynch. Cop needs to be

very clever

about how he goes about in the game, for example too much correlation between what he says and his investigation could potentially bust him out. Essentially he needs to find a whole new way of playing one. Goon is left to his own survival skills, at least for the beginning. Town needs to be more on the ball than usual to see through the new strategy. So I think this set up would involve a far more tactical play than your everyday mafia. And that the name just sounds so cool.

Some concerns:

The goon can kill the traitor (presumably). If this happens it means the town never has the ability to look for connections between scumpals, since they never knew each other.

Unless the traitor is told who the goon is. I assumed not since otherwise it's not clear what he's investigating for. It didn't sound like he was a devil (cop seeker). I guess it's possible that you meant for the main point of the traitor's investigation to be that it communicates to the goon who is

not

the traitor.

It doesn't seem like the traitor should try to be scummy enough to be investigated by the cop, since unless the goon knows who the cop is, this will just get the traitor lynched the next day.

Due to scum not knowing each other, I would be concerned about the game being interesting enough for those without power roles, especially early in the game.

[Raffles]

-It is possible for that happen, be it accident or stupidity. Then the game would turn into "hunt the SK"

-Traitor is told who the goon is, goon doesn't know who is the traitor. Let me make clear what cop traitor is:

mafia cop + traitor = cop traitor

- I was more thinking along the lines of this might generate an interesting volley of counter-claiming and such. But non-the-less, there are many alternate tactics for the traitor I could think of.

-Townie role is always the most interesting role isn't it? (Or so I hear) Townie would hunt like any townie would do in other game. Except slight twist that they may be subjected to slightly different tells...

EDIT: Ahh, I now know where you are coming from with that devil stuff now. let me clarify

Cop Traitor
-Knows scum member
-Unknown to the scum member
-has ability to investigate cop/doc
-cannot send in kills (goon/gf's job)
-has to be recruited (PM sent to mod with name each night from scum) by scum to be able to initiate night discussion

[Kelly Chen]

-It is possible for that happen, be it accident or stupidity. Then the game would turn into "hunt the SK"

I would guess it would happen more likely than you'd expect. Sometimes people misinterpret cops to be scum or (in this case) vice versa.

-Traitor is told who the goon is, goon doesn't know who is the traitor. Let me make clear what cop traitor is:

mafia cop + traitor = cop traitor

- I was more thinking along the lines of this might generate an interesting volley of counter-claiming and such. But non-the-less, there are many alternate tactics for the traitor I could think of.

Scum can't get away with counterclaiming a guaranteed role prior to endgame, unless they're willing to trade a scum for a cop. In either case this doesn't seem to serve the purpose of the traitor getting the goon to realize who he is.

-Townie role is always the most interesting role isn't it? (Or so I hear) Townie would hunt like any townie would do in other game. Except slight twist that they may be subjected to slightly different tells...

The thing is just that I'm not sure that is just a slight twist.


edit: This last bit at least is moot if the traitor knows who the goon is.

[Max]

The unlyncher is famous already and I only invented it yesterday, Super strange flea edited my page...
It looks a lot nicer and makes a lot more sense

I've edited a bit

1 Unlyncher (loses if Unlynchee is lynched)
1 Unlynchee (Townie)
5 Other Townies (wins if lynch lyncher)
2 Mafia.

What do you think

[VampanezeHunter]

Here is an Idea i had...

Mafia on a Cruise

2 Mafia goons
1 Traitor Vice-captain(Pretty much GF)
1 Captain(Bomb)
1 Doc
1 Cop
1 SK
5 Townies

I was wondering whether that was too pro-town. If so then take away the Doc.

[Kelly Chen]

@Max: Clarify all the end-of-game and win conditions and maybe I'll figure out odds for that setup.

@VH: I am confused that you describe one role as both a "traitor" and a "GF." Is he in the mafia, or just know who's in it?

How does the bomb work again? Is it a protown role that takes down whoever is responsible for killing him?

I'm not seeing that setup as too biased towards town... Maybe I'm underestimating the bomb though.