Mini 458 - Game over!

[Albert B. Rampage]

Vote: Numenorean7

Let's wrap this up, baby.

[NabakovNabakov]

Huh?

[baseless speculation]
-Self-protecting Doc
-1 (mountainous) or 2 scum who didn't bother to send choices (I was wondering what was taking last night so long)
-The scum and Doc miraculously target the same third party for inexplicable reasons
[/baseless speculation]

As for using Ade's confirmed scuminess to our advantage, I would defintely look at Num7 pretty hard right now (I would also suspect myself if I didn't know I was town), but it would be foolish to rule out the possibility of bussing.

I'm really due for at least a cursory read through on this game, and knowing that Adel is scum will likely give some helpful perspective.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Vote: Num7

It was Num7's relationship with Adel that originally tipped me off to her being scum, and I was right. Num7 reminds me of how I played in Mafia 61 as scum, so there's no way I'm backing off him now.

NabNab, I consider you to be protown. I'm not looking at you as Adel's scumpartner. Although, kudos for being genuine with your thoughtprocess. Town are generally more likely to see themselves as a possible suspect in the eyes of everyone else.

Kate, who did you protect last night?

Num7, I'd start explaining how I wasn't scum with Adel about now, if I were you.

[Numenorean7]

Num7, I'd start explaining how I wasn't scum with Adel about now, if I were you.

I'd start by explaining why you think I was scum with Adel.

Word. I'm not sure I believe that claim, but until we get a counter-claim...

Unvote, vote pickemgenius

Though the doc somehow survived the night, this was still very scummy. Adel's move was obviously a ploy to get the doc to out herself. ABR actually encouraged a doc to counter-claim.

Vote: ABR

[Crub]

Why isn't everyone on the Tar wagon? Did no one else see the self-destruct when Adel "didn't claim"?

[pickemgenius]

Why isn't everyone on the Tar wagon? Did no one else see the self-destruct when Adel "didn't claim"?

I saw that but im not gung-ho gonna vote him quite yet.

i'd actually like to hear from him about that.

[Crub]

I lose it whenever anyone tries to pull a stunt like Metatron pulled in 431.

Tar : Self-destruct, self-destruct

Num7 : it could be a gambit

Tar : Oh shi ....

[Mastermind of Sin]

I would not be surprised at all of Tar and Num7 were the last two scum. Num7's refusal to accept that arguments have been posted against him is just another black mark.

[Albert B. Rampage]

In a big book chalk full of black marks.

[NabakovNabakov]

In a big book

chalk

Chock

full of black marks.

I don't think that Tar's over-reaction condemns him as scum. He had already been burned once by this type of gambit. I got the impression that his objection was more on principle ("It's absolutely unacceptable either way") than in response to a personal threat. In fact, I think it's a pretty blatant misrepresentation to call what he did "self destructing," and I would not be surprised if that's just Crub-scum trying to keep the town off of Num-scum.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Thanks Nab. I think we can't go wrong with a Num7 lynch.

[Adel]

bah. this was may favorite group of players yet. it was great playing with y'all.

[pickemgenius]

In a big book

chalk

Chock

full of black marks.

I don't think that Tar's over-reaction condemns him as scum. He had already been burned once by this type of gambit. I got the impression that his objection was more on principle ("It's absolutely unacceptable either way") than in response to a personal threat. In fact, I think it's a pretty blatant misrepresentation to call what he did "self destructing," and I would not be surprised if that's just Crub-scum trying to keep the town off of Num-scum.

I'd still like to hear Tar's explanation.

[Numenorean7]

Num7's refusal to accept that arguments have been posted against him is just another black mark.

We had a lengthy discussion near the end of D2 regarding your arguments. If that is what your vote is based on, well and good, but don't try and say that there is some sort of overwhelming case against me that I am ignoring.

Vote: Numenorean7

Let's wrap this up, baby.

I think we can't go wrong with a Num7 lynch.

I see this as delayed OMGUS in response to me pointing out his distancing maneuver with Adel, and my subsequent vote on him. Not to mention sucking up to MoS by following his chief suspect. Slightly reminiscent of Adel's behavior on D1.

[Tarhalindur]

You want an explanation for why I lost control when Adel pulled her stunt? It's really simple - after Mini 431, I pretty much decided that if you claim that player X is your scumbuddy, you should die (regardless of whether you're telling the truth or not), and you should probably be banned from the site to boot.

Claiming that player X is your scumbuddy is, in my opinion, absolutely unacceptable. Period. No exceptions, no matter what.
It would seem that Crub hopped onto the MoS wagon

immediately after Adel did

, with no reasoning whatsover. That REEKS of scum defending a buddy by attacking the townie attacking his buddy (I've seen that type of scum defense in action before *cough*Kate in Newb 399*cough*).


I find it extremely interesting that Crub decides to pursue me now for my reaction to Adel's stunt, instead of going after Num7 (who is so strongly tied to Adelscum). I'm even more interested by something I noticed when I looked at the votecounts from Day 1: a block of players who are often on the same wavelength, including Adel (known scum) and Num7 (very probably scum). The third player in that block Crub, of course.

Vote Count (#15)
curiouskarmadog: 5 (

Numeronean7, Adel, Crub,

NabakovNabakov, Kate)
dylan41985: 3 (ThAdmiral, molestargazer, HungryJoe)
Crub: 1 (curiouskarmadog)
Mastermind of Sin: 1 (dylan41985)
pickemgenius: 1(Mastermind of Sin)

Not voting: 1 (pickemgenius)

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Deadline is most certainly coming closer, I'm holding it because there seems to be a lot of activity now. But I also smell some traces of circular discussion...

First, let's look at the first ckd wagon. Three of the first four players on that wagon were scum, and the fourth (who does not appear in this count) left in the middle of the wagon. What's more, Adel/Num7/Crub are some of the last people to leave the ckd wagon... it's almost like the scum were trying to get a mislynch on an easy target, and then want to keep ckd a viable target even after the wagon dissipated (hence the late exit of the Adel block from that wagon).

If that's not enough to show that Crub is tied to Adel, let's look at the MoS wagon:

Vote Count (#19)
dylan41985: 4 (ThAdmiral, HungryJoe, Numenorean7, Kate)
Mastermind of Sin: 3 (dylan41985,

Adel, Crub

)
Adel: 2 (Mastermind of Sin, curiouskarmadog)

Not voting: 3 (pickemgenius, NabakovNabakov, molestargazer)

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch before the deadline.

Deadline on 11 July, 14:00 GMT (2 days and 23 hours from this post).

I find it incredibly, incredibly interesting that Crub started attacking MoS immediately after MoS started going after Adel (he's just like Adel that way). Now, let's review his reason for hopping onto the MoS wagon:

unvote: ThAdmiral vote:Master of Sin for power role hunting.

unvote ThAdmiral, vote Master of Sin
I'm willing to see where this go's

It would seem that Crub hopped onto the MoS wagon

immediately after Adel did

, with no reasoning whatsover. That REEKS of scum defending a buddy by attacking the townie attacking his buddy (I've seen that type of scum defense in action before *cough*Kate in Newb 399*cough*).

Now, let's look at who stayed on the MoS wagon when it was dying down:

Attention everyone! I will be away from tomorrow until 29 July. MeMe will be watching over this game during that time.

MeMe is the new mod. Anything she says, goes. Thank you MeMe!

Vote Count (#22)
Mastermind of Sin: 4 (dylan41985,

Adel, Crub, Numenorean7

)
dylan41985: 2 (ThAdmiral, HungryJoe)
Adel: 1 (Mastermind of Sin)

Not voting: 5 (molestargazer, Kate, pickemgenius, NabakovNabakov, curiouskarmadog)

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Prod sent to dylan41985.

Why yes, the Adel/Num7/Crub block

did

stay on the MoS wagon when it was dying down! Better yet, they were the only players to do so other than dylan (who had his vote parked on MoS for most of Day 1, and never thought to change it.

There are only a few D1 wagons which don't fit the Adel/Num7/Crub pattern: the J-man wagon and the dylan wagons.

It's easy enough to explain how the J-man wagon wasn't scum driven if Crub is scum, seeing as Crub replaced J-man. I'm very interested by how Adel hopped on to that wagon near its height - I suspect bussing was involved.
The dylan wagons are harder to explain. The main player attacking dylan has been ThAdmiral, who voted dylan through almost all of Day 1; Adel and company largely stayed off of the dylan wagons. My best guess (and yes, this is WIFOM territory) is that the scum decided that pushing for a dylan lynch would make them look horrible in later days, so they decided to just leave dylan be.

At this point, I strongly believe that the scum are Adel (dead), Num7, and Crub.

Vote: Num7
HoS: Crub

[ThAdmiral]

@ Tar: you may not like it when a mafiate says they are scumbuddies with X but it's a valid tactic and can set up mislynches in the town leading to a mafia victory. It may not be the best tactic, or the most admirable one, but it is still a tactic.

I'm potentially willing to vote num but would someone summarise the points against him. As far as I can tell there are some very tenous links, and also the assumption that the mafiates would all be working closely together, which I've hardly ever seen happen.

[Numenorean7]

Why does everyone keep saying I am linked to AdelScum?

[Mastermind of Sin]

@ Tar: you may not like it when a mafiate says they are scumbuddies with X but it's a valid tactic and can set up mislynches in the town leading to a mafia victory. It may not be the best tactic, or the most admirable one, but it is still a tactic.

I'm potentially willing to vote num but would someone summarise the points against him. As far as I can tell there are some very tenous links, and also the assumption that the mafiates would all be working closely together, which I've hardly ever seen happen.

Actually, that's the opposite of what happened, until they were exposed. MoS first had suspicion of Num7 and noticed that Num7 and Adel were completely ignoring each other, failing to comment on anything of significance about each other and never addressing the other except in passing. This then prompted MoS to look further into Adel's behavior, showing her to be scum. He seems to have felt that Adel was the most likely scum of the two, and now that his conclusion has been proven correct, the natural progression is the lynch the other part of that scumpair. The two of them made a concerted effort to cast suspicion on our cop D1 after he exposed them as scum, while also casting around for other easy targets to lynch, such as CKD.

Adel made sure to stay off of the main scum target, letting Crub (possible third mafia) lead that wagon, and Num7 supported diversion from Adel's bandwagon by jumping in with the CKD wagon.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

I suggest we follow the intuition of our dead cop, who already nailed one scum for us.

[Crub]

words ...

[Mastermind of Sin]

words ...

:nothelpful:

[ThAdmiral]

See I'm confused because there seems to be arguments that adel and num7 were working together, and there are also arguments that they completely ignored each other?

[Crub]

words ...

:nothelpful:

Because you know scum always vote one after the other on every single wagon that's just how scum roll.

[ThAdmiral]

He's got a point.

[Mastermind of Sin]

See I'm confused because there seems to be arguments that adel and num7 were working together, and there are also arguments that they completely ignored each other?

Adel and Num7 worked together *after* they were attacked for completely ignoring each other. They completely changed how they were acting towards each other after it was brought to light. That's just another black mark, as far as I'm concerned.

[Mastermind of Sin]

words ...

:nothelpful:

Because you know scum always vote one after the other on every single wagon that's just how scum roll.

See, saying that is helpful, because you just made an argument. Rolling your eyes is not helpful at all.