Mini 500 - Cult Mafia - Game Over!

[Oman]

Mod Edit

Official Vote Count #14

tyhess[3](ac1983fan, Trojan Horse, Flameaxe)
theopor_COD[3](vollkan, tyhess, Oman)
Mastermind of Sin[2](White, pwayne66)
ac1983fan[2](theopor_COD, curiouskarmadog)
Flameaxe[1](Dr. Blackstrike)
Dr. Blackstrike[1](Mastermind of Sin)


Not Voting[0]()

Reread page 9-14

Tyhess:

Gets bit uppity about the edit thing.

Vollkan:

Defends trojan a bit, but in true vollkan style. Seems to be on the right side of everyone. Either agreeing or being agreed with. Works hard on either side of the MoS/Oman debate. Makes a comment about "If MoS is scum this has validity" (or somewhat) but I don't see how this is even logical. If we knew mos was scum we needent worry. I also don't like the way MoS's not reading the game was "rational"

MoS:

I still don't like that post about Flameaxe and theo, for the same reasons that he ignores a lot of game content when he posts them. He ignores a question from me in 211 about blackstrike. MoS either doesn't read or is constantly twisting people's words (see: 228)

ZOMG NOTE:

You don't have to be sure of our

alignment

SINGULAR! Theo and MoS a team? Or Flameaxe and Mos? (I'm not sure to who he refers). MoS wants me to metagame him (?)

244 Mos likes to WIFOM himself in 3rd person. 248 MoS proves he doesn't read the game by saying I called him scum.

CKD:

Absolutley owns MoS in 214

Pwayne:

Posts without comment on the action Then gets into it and calls MoS on a few things. Now I find this interesting as it would have been almost easier to go after me had Pwayne been scum. He could have got vollkan on side, and with him, the town. Pwayne scores high townie brownies for it.

Blackstrike:

Is he still here? I thought he posted a "will post content" and then bailed. But it turns out he came back...just ...not to post content.

White

I dislike white's analysises. Basically you're either newb, scum, or neutral.


Just got killed in scumtube will post the rest later up to post 283

[vollkan]

Vollkan: Defends trojan a bit, but in true vollkan style. Seems to be on the right side of everyone. Either agreeing or being agreed with. Works hard on either side of the MoS/Oman debate. Makes a comment about "If MoS is scum this has validity" (or somewhat) but I don't see how this is even logical. If we knew mos was scum we needent worry. I also don't like the way MoS's not reading the game was "rational"

Well, the "If MoS is scum this has validity" I think you mean this post:

Motives are hard to guess at in this game. But if you are scum with one of them it basically is a defence of them, to get them off the hook of being lynchbait.

If that's the case, why are you suspecting MoS? Sure, IF

MoS

is scum then maybe this argument has some persuasiveness, but given our current level of knowledge I can't see the basis for saying his behaviour is more scummy than pro-town/neutral.

That doesn't make sense, thanks for pointing it out. The bolded MoS should be "Theo and/or Flame". I was trying (and failed) to say that because most of what you had said against MoS was based on the Theo/Flame thing, I disagreed with suspecting him on the basis of potentially being a scumpartner. As in, relations are not suspicious on their own until a role is known.

As for the "rational" thing. I was saying that it was sensible for MoS to read the thread in isolation from our arguments. This is not to defend his subsequent refusal to comment on them. It's the same reason why I suggested we not argue with White until he had finished his reread. If people read with a specific argument in mind, it may prevent what is hopefully as close as is possible an objective analysis.

White I dislike white's analysises. Basically you're either newb, scum, or neutral.

If by "neutral" you mean pro-town, then what is the point of even saying this. You are basically saying "White is newb, scum or town". Ignoring the fact that newb is not an exclusive option, this is pointless.

If you don't mean pro-town, then what?

And why don't you dislike the analyses?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Looks like someone else has done their homework as well.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mastermind of Sin:

He was the one that had a random vote on Page 4, which I thought was a littles scummish, but that has been explained as just not being there. I still don't like the vote, but I will give him the benefit of doubt (For now)

Oman:

No read yet. I know it's late in the game, but I'm still going to wait him out.

ac1983fan:

No read (obviously).....needs to post......possibly the cultist and just reading posts???? probably not, but possible

Dr. Blackstrike:

I've been keeping my eye on the Doc since his original idea. Someone thought that his quick apology for the idea was good for him, but I think it made it even more suspicious.

curiouskarmadog:

Nothing scummish imo yet.

pwayne66:

Pro-town, imo

vollkan:

Pro-town, imo

Trojan Horse:

Interseting player. At times I have thought scum, but don't really have a real read on him yet.

Flameaxe:

Same as Trojan Horse

White (r. Rump-Wat):

Is posting A LOT. He says aggressive, and I'm starting to actually beelive him. He is doing the exact same thing in the other game I'm in with him. So either he's scum in both games, or that is his play style. For now I'll beleive him.....I think that as much talknig as he's doing has to be pro-town.

theopor_COD:

Still my vote. Possibility to change quickly.

So, because of this list, he has Theo, myself, and BS on top? I am his second highest suspicion because I rolled a dice for my random vote entry into the game on page 4? I gotta call bullshit on that one.

Vote: Tyhess

MoS:

I still don't like that post about Flameaxe and theo, for the same reasons that he ignores a lot of game content when he posts them. He ignores a question from me in 211 about blackstrike. MoS either doesn't read or is constantly twisting people's words (see: 228)

ZOMG NOTE:

You don't have to be sure of our

alignment

SINGULAR! Theo and MoS a team? Or Flameaxe and Mos? (I'm not sure to who he refers). MoS wants me to metagame him (?)

244 Mos likes to WIFOM himself in 3rd person. 248 MoS proves he doesn't read the game by saying I called him scum.

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/typo

The reason I suspect him originally began with his small half-post about theo and flameaxe. Then his defence contained very little about the actual case on them.

I'm not sure what the motives are in that, I'm not sure why either type of MoS (protown, scum, neutral, cult) would have done it, but it didn't sit well with me as a protown action.

The answer to that is easy. Just because it's not the answer you expect doesn't mean it's not true. Town-MoS would obviously just want to tell the truth, and that would be the motivation for saying what he did.

How is this WIFOM? I didn't tell you to take a conclusion from this. There is no motivation for a protown person to lie about things like this. It is not WIFOM to say that someone with protown alignment would be motivated to tell the truth.

And you lie again. I have read the game. Shit, had you actually read 248, you would know that I already explained how you called me scum, and you wouldn't have tried to make this argument.

White I dislike white's analysises. Basically you're either newb, scum, or neutral.

If by "neutral" you mean pro-town, then what is the point of even saying this. You are basically saying "White is newb, scum or town". Ignoring the fact that newb is not an exclusive option, this is pointless.

If you don't mean pro-town, then what?

I believe Oman was referring to white's analysis, not white himself. It sounds like Oman was saying that, according to white's conclusions, everyone in the game is either a newb, scum, or neutral. Does that help explain things for y ou?

[Oman]

MoS is in fact correct, In White's eyes players are newb, scum, or neutral (by which I mean No conclusion).

[vollkan]

MoS is in fact correct, In White's eyes players are newb, scum, or neutral (by which I mean No conclusion).

Ah okay. That makes sense then.

[theopor_COD]

Oman you are a like a cat on hot coals.

I don't need to explain why I think that particular post of Tyhess strikes me as a townish thing. It's pretty obvious really, obviously doesn't rule out him as cult by any means.

Until ac1983 appears and answers my vote ain't shifting.

[Oman]

Yeah you're right, apparrently you don't need to explain anything to the town :eyeroll:

[tyhess]

Seriously though theo wtf are you talking about.....I was starting to think that you might be protown, but then you post this and no one else can figure out what your talking about??? With 10 other players, not counting you or myself, you would figure one of them would know what your talking about. Please explain.

[Oman]

Shh Tyhess. He doesn't need to explain himself to you.

[pwayne66]

hmm... I am torn here. It seems that people are begining to read the "don't claim townie" theory into the "I don't have to answer questions" theory. Is there a legit reason to believe that Oman is fishing for vanillas? If so I would like to hear it.

[vollkan]

It's kind of obvious really; I don't even think it is a town tell.

I think that the culist would be acting more to find out the town (ie lurking) than a mafia would be, considering he knows that all but one person is protown.

If I am correct, what Theo is getting at is that Tyhess said the cultist knows everyone else is protown. By this logic, there are no scum. Theo seems to be inferring that this means Tyhess is not scum based on the fact that he didn't say "he knows that everyone else is town or scum".

Frankly, I see no reason to deem it a town-tell. There is nothing preventing it being a scum error, or a scum tactic (much as I doubt the latter of these).

[vollkan]

Cross-posted with Pwayne.

hmm... I am torn here. It seems that people are begining to read the "don't claim townie" theory into the "I don't have to answer questions" theory. Is there a legit reason to believe that Oman is fishing for vanillas? If so I would like to hear it.

I see no town-tell, yet alone a "vanilla-tell". Hence, I don't get why Theo accuses Oman of fishing.

[tyhess]

That was just an English mistake then.....I meant to say that the mafia knows that all but one person is protown....

[Oman]

I did not see a reason either Vollkan, which is why I asked for an explaination. I saw where the "slip" was but I didn not see it as a town-tell.

[pwayne66]

On the other end of the spectrum, theo's original statement seems innocent enough. It seems to be more of an off the cuff statement than a case for tyhess' innocence. His reluctance to answer the question might be a reflection of that. (ie- he doesn't have a real reason).

I can see where Oman's vote might be seen as an over-reaction, but my fear is this: that the town is becoming one where helping each other find scum is no longer the goal, rather seeing who got the biggest balls is. If this is the case, the mafia/cult's path to success will be lot easier.

[tyhess]

I think that this goes right into what pwayne said...we are not working together at this point....we need to try to narrow down who we are attacking.......i realize that I'm probably going to be one of the 3, but I think it will be the easiest way to find the scum.

[vollkan]

On the other end of the spectrum, theo's original statement seems innocent enough. It seems to be more of an off the cuff statement than a case for tyhess' innocence. His reluctance to answer the question might be a reflection of that. (ie- he doesn't have a real reason).

Yes; the original statement is not suspect. I will leave it to Theo to explain why he used the word "fishing".

I can see where Oman's vote might be seen as an over-reaction, but my fear is this: that the town is becoming one where helping each other find scum is no longer the goal, rather seeing who got the

biggest balls

is. If this is the case, the mafia/cult's path to success will be lot easier.

What do you mean?

[curiouskarmadog]

I think that this goes right into what pwayne said...we are not working together at this point....we need to try to narrow down who we are attacking.......i realize that I'm probably going to be one of the 3, but I think it will be the easiest way to find the scum.

it might be you are just new or something, but I think almost everyone of your post bother me at some level...(not sure why)

at any rate, what do you mean, the town should work togther and narrow down who we are attacking? What are we doing now that you do not like?

[pwayne66]

What do you mean?

Just that some players seem more intent on maintaining a personal image than assisting the town.

[vollkan]

I think that this goes right into what pwayne said...we are not working together at this point .... we need to try to narrow down who we are attacking.......i realize that I'm probably going to be one of the 3, but I think it will be the easiest way to find the scum.

How do you propose we "work together"?

Also you are implying that there is some benefit in only focussing on a small number of people.

[tyhess]

I think that this goes right into what pwayne said...we are not working together at this point....we need to try to narrow down who we are attacking.......i realize that I'm probably going to be one of the 3, but I think it will be the easiest way to find the scum.

it might be you are just new or something, but I think almost everyone of your post bother me at some level...(not sure why)

at any rate, what do you mean, the town should work togther and narrow down who we are attacking? What are we doing now that you do not like?

It's just the fact that there are multiple votes on about 1/3 of the people......I think we need to work more on going after maybe 3 people (and I know I'll probably end up within this group, but whatever), and try to if not say that we think they are scum, to eliminate them from us thinking their scum, at least for Day1. I think that it would be more productive and that we would be able to get the most done that way because instead of focusing on 12 people, we would be putting all of our attention on 3.

[tyhess]

I think that this goes right into what pwayne said...we are not working together at this point .... we need to try to narrow down who we are attacking.......i realize that I'm probably going to be one of the 3, but I think it will be the easiest way to find the scum.

How do you propose we "work together"?

Also you are implying that there is some benefit in only focussing on a small number of people.

cross post, but:

I'm thinking that it would be more beneficial to focus on the 3 people because then it'll a smaller list of suspects for like 4-5 days. By working together, I just mean that at this point its person(s) vs person and not group vs. person. It would be a lot easier to work against only 3 people, compared to 12.

[vollkan]

Here's why I disagree with you Tyhess:
Let's say A, B and C are the 3 people in the "spotlight".
The other players can be numbers 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 and 9.

Let's say during the course of the stuff against A, numbers 2 and 4 do something scummy. What do we do? We either keep focussing on A (which is wrong because it ignores things) or we shift to 2 and 4.
If, whilst on 2 and 4, person 5 does something really scummy then things move to 5. etc.etc.

Or, in the alternative, we go through A, B and C and nothing comes up. Then we start on 1,2 and 3. During the course of pressing 1, A and C do something scummy. Do we then flip back to A and C or do we continue on?

Maybe these example sound facetious, but the point I am making is that any effort to focus on a particular person/s will inevitably lead to an expansion of suspicion back to the original 12. You cannot expect 9 people to focus solely on 3 people and ignore the posting of every other person within the 9, particularly when there is no unanimous agreement on a "top 3".

[theopor_COD]

Seriously though theo wtf are you talking about.....I was starting to think that you

might be protown

, but then you post this and no one else can figure out what your talking about??? With 10 other players, not counting you or myself, you would figure one of them would know what your talking about. Please explain.

My underlining, is this despite your list of suspicion? And the fact your vote is on me.

As for the cult issue which everyone has gone ape at me over, Tyhess included, it was the fact Tyhess commented that the cultist knows that only

one

other person wasn't town. When obviously there's two mafioso. Seems pretty stupid if your scum and can't remember how many of em they are, meh maybe I'm reading too much into it, Tyhess's play doesn't exactly deserve a pass does it.

[theopor_COD]

What makes you think ac1983 may be cult out of interest? I was leaning much more towards mafia.

ac being cult goes with something I said earlier......I think that the culist would be acting more to find out the town (ie lurking) than a mafia would be,

considering he knows that all but one person is protown.

It's not a strong lead, because he might just have forgotten about this game, but that is why I see him as a potential cultist, and more so than scum.

Bold is the bit for all of you so confused. Cult actually knows all but two are pro-town not one.
[/u]