Mini 488 - Killings in Clich├®-town - Game Over!


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Post Post #175 (ISO) » Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:19 pm

Post by IH »

you know, there's more than three-four people playing this game. There should be more posts.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Votecount:
as of post 183


d3sisted – 3 – Kison, IH, vollkan

IH – 1 – The Central Scrutinizer
SPAG – 1 – Head_Honcho
Vollkan – 1 – D3sisted

With
11
alive, it takes
six
to lynch!

Not Voting – 5 – GatorGuy91, Jenter Brolincani, Paradoxombie, poppinpuffin, ChronX

With 11 alive, it's six to lynch.
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Post Post #176 (ISO) » Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:07 pm

Post by petroleumjelly »

Thank you PJ!
The current votecount is now at the top of the page.
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Post Post #177 (ISO) » Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:01 pm

Post by d3sisted »

IH wrote:unsure why you just bolded parts of my posts.
To answer your question.
IH wrote:Well. You're staying on it. You have no reasons. We're not in the random stage. You act like you have a case. You don't.
Already explained.
IH wrote:no it detracts from it.
Negative. Being at L-3, you had one less reason to be nervous.
IH wrote:Because she never claimed to have a reason.

This indicates you made a case against me and voted me for a good reason, and for me to avoid that case I deflected suspicion onto you. But I didn't deflect anything, because, well, there was nothing to deflect from. I'm just plain suspicous of you.
For the sake of avoiding redundancy, I'm not going to go over this one again.
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Post Post #178 (ISO) » Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:42 am

Post by Paradoxombie »

Yeah, I mean to post sometime soon, but I haven't really had the chance to get a good read on the current discussion.
"Beware of Zombie Entanglements."
-George Washington

So it goes.
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Post Post #179 (ISO) » Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:49 am

Post by IH »

Ok, so my other points have nothing to do with you intentionally trying to sound scummy.

You have essentially admitted to keeping on my wagon for the sake of a random wagon.

I am keeping my vote where it is.
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Post Post #180 (ISO) » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:54 am

Post by vollkan »

My vote is staying on d3sisted as well. L-2 is serious stuff and it is not a scumtell for a person to get nervous, particularly when the wagon is at L-2 (It is FIVE (5) to lynch not six; IH you said 6 before) and where there is no actual argument to rebut. How can you refute pressure?

I mean, d3sisted's logic appears to be: I'll place IH at L-2 for pressure. Then, when IH gets nervous I will accuse him of being scummy for getting nervous.

This tactic is NOT scum-hunting. It is placing people in a ridiculous situation where they should rightly be exceedingly nervous in order to create a case for suspicion.

My vote stands.
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Post Post #181 (ISO) » Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:57 pm

Post by d3sisted »

vollkan wrote:My vote is staying on d3sisted as well. L-2 is serious stuff and it is not a scumtell for a person to get nervous, particularly when the wagon is at L-2 (It is FIVE (5) to lynch not six; IH you said 6 before) and where there is no actual argument to rebut. How can you refute pressure?

I mean, d3sisted's logic appears to be: I'll place IH at L-2 for pressure. Then, when IH gets nervous I will accuse him of being scummy for getting nervous.

This tactic is NOT scum-hunting. It is placing people in a ridiculous situation where they should rightly be exceedingly nervous in order to create a case for suspicion.

My vote stands.
Lies and fallacies. All of it.


1) It is indeed 6 to lynch.
2) Not once did I suggest that IH was expected to refute a pressure vote. That in itself is just plain silly.
3) I placed IH at
L-4
. Poppin came in and put him at L-3, which is as far as IH ever got.
4) This is nowhere
near
as "serious" as you make it out to be.
5) Poppin has long since removed her vote, and IH stands once again at L-4. Tell me again why you're both so anxious for me to remove an L-4 vote. Apparently, putting someone at L-4 is tantamount to L-2. (This is in response to IH as well.)

Finally, something tangible has emerged from my pressure vote.
Unvote; Vote: Vollkan
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Post Post #182 (ISO) » Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:54 pm

Post by IH »

no it is SIX to lynch.

The majority of eleven is six.
The majority of ten is six

It doesn't become 5 to lynch until 9 is alive.

I mistakenly put 5 in the votecount. It should read 6 to lynch.
-MOD
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Post Post #183 (ISO) » Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:32 pm

Post by vollkan »

The Votecount wrote: Votecount: as of post 179

d3sisted – 3 – Kison, IH, vollkan
IH – 2 – Trumpezia, d3sisted
SPAG – 1 – Head_Honcho

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch!

Not Voting – 5 – GatorGuy91, Jenter Brolincani, Paradoxombie, poppinpuffin, SPAG

With 11 alive, it's five to lynch.
I have been in games before where they modify the number of needed votes. This appears to be one of them. (I have bolded).

Question for mod - Is it currently 5 to lynch?


I mistakenly put 5 in the votecount. It should read 6 to lynch.
-MOD

d3s wrote: 1) It is indeed 6 to lynch.
2) Not once did I suggest that IH was expected to refute a pressure vote. That in itself is just plain silly.
3) I placed IH at L-4. Poppin came in and put him at L-3, which is as far as IH ever got.
4) This is nowhere near as "serious" as you make it out to be.
5) Poppin has long since removed her vote, and IH stands once again at L-4. Tell me again why you're both so anxious for me to remove an L-4 vote. Apparently, putting someone at L-4 is tantamount to L-2. (This is in response to IH as well.)

Finally, something tangible has emerged from my pressure vote.
Unvote; Vote: Vollkan
1) See above. I am only going by what the mod says.
2) I never said he had to refute your "vote"; don't misrepresent me. I said you had given no argument to rebut. My understanding of pressure voting is this: You vote someone you have some suspicion of so that they are forced to talk. In your case, you are doing the ridiculous thing of voting for someone simply for the purpose of bandwagoning without detailing anything that you want explained.
3) Your vote placed him at
L-3
(I am following the mod unless the mod says otherwise). You could quite easily have unvoted once Puffin hopped on with his similarly scummy vote. What I meant is that you accepted a L-2 (or 3 depending) pressure wagon which had no basis. Don't distance yourself from the fact is was L-2 simply because you weren't the last to vote.

On that note, I find d3s's behaviour as a whole more scummy, as evident from my readthrough, but Puffin also gets an
FoS
.
I would like Puffin to explain why he thought it was acceptable to place a L-2 pressure vote? (or L-3 depending on your view).
4) If this event came up in a vacuum; I would probably leave it with an FoS on you and puffin. But your behaviour throughout has been scummy throughout.
5) I never said I want you to remove your vote now; again you are misrepresenting me. I disagreed with your vote and your rationale and your subsequent contrived arguments.
d3s wrote: Finally, something tangible has emerged from my pressure vote.
Unvote; Vote: Vollkan
1) is most likely you are wrong.
2) is a misrepresentation by you
3) is avoiding your acceptance and support of the wagon
4) is your opinion
5) dodges the issue.

What is your case then?
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Post Post #184 (ISO) » Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:11 pm

Post by d3sisted »

1) Doesn't matter who is wrong with this one. The required votes is 6, so what you previously said about L-2 no longer applies.
2) The only reason you would complain that there is no argument to rebut (and subsequently use this to invigorate your case against me) is because you are expecting a rebuttal.
3) Firstly, my vote put him at L-4. Why you wish to continue pursuing a point based upon a fallacy is beyond me. Secondly, why would I unvote when absolutely nothing has emerged from it yet? Why should I fear the pressure I sought? You're basically asking me to do wishy-washy voting. Thirdly, once again, you're ignoring the fact that all your observations point to Puffin being scummier than I. Why you continue to push pressure onto me is beyond me.
-Only when I call you for it do you start putting some weight on Puffin. That FoS was purely to appease me, to silence the case. Notice that by calling Puffin's vote scummy, you have indirectly condemned all instances of pressure voting.
4) Stop being secretive and point out the behaviour that you found scummy upon readthrough. And stop continuing to further your "opinion" that L-4 is suspect.
5) By suspecting me for keeping my vote on a pressure wagon for as long as I have, as well as expressing disapproval of said vote, the connotation is that I was to remove my vote, as that would've been the "townie" thing to do according to you. Post 169:
Vollkan wrote:Puffin has unvoted upon discussion restarting but you seem intent on keeping it going, and it's looking like you are doing so in order to keep attention off yourself.
Which means that you are now officially flipflopping on your stance.

And what exactly is "the issue" that I am so keen to dodge?
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Post Post #185 (ISO) » Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:29 pm

Post by vollkan »

1) Fine; it's six. I followed the mod and I don't think this means anything.
2) Again, you are twisting this. You jumped on a pressure wagon without explaining what you hoped to achieve other than "discussion". What was IH supposed to "discuss"? Pressuring to get information from a lurkish suspect is good, but pressuring simply to pressure is nonsense and suspicious. It looks very much like just trying to tease out a reaction.
3) But nothing could emerge from this wagon, other than you being able to leap on somebody's response to it as evidence of over-reaction. I have no problem with a pressure wagon, when there is a point to it. Also, as I have said again and again, your behaviour in sum is more suspicious than Puffin's. Puffin's vote is scummy as all hell too; but I don't like you overall.
4) My first post.
5) You didn't have to remove the vote though. You could quite easily have justified the wagon to me, but you didn't. Instead you persisted in contorting what I have said . That is the issue.

I will be doing a re-read on Puffin today or tomorrow.
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Post Post #186 (ISO) » Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:08 pm

Post by poppinpuffin »

vollkan wrote: 3) But nothing could emerge from this wagon, other than you being able to leap on somebody's response to it as evidence of over-reaction. I have no problem with a pressure wagon, when there is a point to it. Also, as I have said again and again, your behaviour in sum is more suspicious than Puffin's. Puffin's vote is scummy as all hell too; but I don't like you overall.


I will be doing a re-read on Puffin today or tomorrow.
I dont think IH was in any danger, and I'm pretty sure it's well-known standard procedure to elicit reactions for later analysis. What good would a mislynch do at this early point in the game? I don't think my pressure vote was particularly scummy, and I don't regret it at all... look at all the content we're getting now.
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somestrangeflea: NO!
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Post Post #187 (ISO) » Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:14 pm

Post by vollkan »

I dont think IH was in any danger, and I'm pretty sure it's well-known standard procedure to elicit reactions for later analysis. What good would a mislynch do at this early point in the game? I don't think my pressure vote was particularly scummy, and I don't regret it at all... look at all the content we're getting now.
Yeah, I know reactions are useful. The problem is, though, that reactions alone are not really sufficient, particularly when the purpose of the wagon is to incite a reaction. I am of the view that town are not significantly less likely to react to wagons than scum.

Also, don't retrospectively justify your vote.
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Post Post #188 (ISO) » Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:29 am

Post by poppinpuffin »

The whole point of bandwagoning someone early in the game is not to actually lynch them of course, but to look at what people say to you in response to that.
If I say that when I put the pressure on, it would defeat the whole purpose of trying to get evidence of scumminess.
People already expect this type of discussion-starting... no need to further point out what you're trying to do before they respond.
Scum are wary enough about their posts without me reminding them that town baits people.

Speaking of taking bait... you seem eager to jump on me for not much of a reason.
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Post Post #189 (ISO) » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:14 am

Post by IH »

I'm still unsure how I became nervous.

Desisted, could you quote where I 'became nervous'? Instead of just me posting and catching up?
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Post Post #190 (ISO) » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:09 am

Post by Elias_the_thief »

ChronX replaces SPAG.

The Central Scrutinizer replaces Trumpezia.
I play the games rul gud.
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Post Post #191 (ISO) » Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:57 pm

Post by ChronX »

Hi I'm replacing SPAG . I've read nothing but will within 24 hours.
Effectively done with MS
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Post Post #192 (ISO) » Mon Sep 17, 2007 2:46 pm

Post by d3sisted »

2) Where in that post, or in any of my posts did I ever state I was looking for a reaction specifically from IH?
3) Indeed, something did emerge from this wagon; I caught you flipflopping, didn't I?
5) How am I expected to justify a random pressure wagon?
IH wrote:I'm still unsure how I became nervous.

Desisted, could you quote where I 'became nervous'? Instead of just me posting and catching up?
Mostly because you saw my vote on your and ricocheted an entire case on me. Then you kept asking why my vote was on you, when I felt it was quite clear it was a random pressure vote.
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Post Post #193 (ISO) » Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:42 pm

Post by IH »

Errr, why would you put a random pressure vote on someone when the game had already gotten going? Thats the whole point.

Also the case wasn't the result of your vote. It was the result of me catching up.
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Post Post #194 (ISO) » Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:08 pm

Post by d3sisted »

IH wrote:Errr, why would you put a random pressure vote on someone when the game had already gotten going? Thats the whole point.
The game was at a standstill. Two days had elapsed since anyone last said anything, so I felt something had to be done to rekindle the thread.
IH wrote:Also the case wasn't the result of your vote. It was the result of me catching up.
Ok.
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Post Post #195 (ISO) » Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:36 pm

Post by IH »

Pressure votes rarely do anything btw.
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Post Post #196 (ISO) » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:42 pm

Post by d3sisted »

Not all of the time, of course, but in some instances they can definitely be helpful.
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Post Post #197 (ISO) » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:20 pm

Post by vollkan »

d3s wrote: Not all of the time, of course, but in some instances they can definitely be helpful.
Yes, when there is a purpose to the pressure wagon (ie. to make a specific lurker talk or to make a major suspect talk).

Making a pressure wagon just to make a wagon and see what happens is not helpful.
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Post Post #198 (ISO) » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:56 pm

Post by d3sisted »

Only from your perspective.
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Post Post #199 (ISO) » Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:44 am

Post by IH »

untrue.

Pressure to make a person talk is usually unhelpful.

A random wagon can be.

I think I may review my case on desisted in the next day or two, and really look at the exchange between him and volkan today.
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