California Trilogy - Dantès in Fresno (Game Over!)

[foolinc]

I have not read anything since Day started. I, do, however, need to post 25 or more words to satisfy the mod. So I'm going to say that I'll get you guys a post tomorrow, as I was largely busy today.

I've posted Friday afternoon, but I'm going to be very busy until late Monday and don't know if I am going to get some time to spend on mafia.

[Mr. Grey]

Vote Count:

9 to lynch.

Mgm: 3 (Dani Banani, LoudmouthLee, Tamuz)
Adele: 2 (Gaspar, VitaminR)
logicticus: 1 (Mgm)
LoudmouthLee: 1 (IH)
Skruffs: 1 (Cogito Ergo Sum)
Tamuz: 1 (Skruffs)

[Mr. Grey]

Regarding the 72 hour rule: I have decided to modify it slightly - starting with the current Day, the "clock" on the 72 hour rule will stop during Sundays. Hopefully this will help those who have are on less over the weekend, or who will be away for an entire weekend.

[Skruffs]

Uh Skruff... you did claim, maybe not a full claim but you still claimed to have a night power.
You kinda scumplay lead there... A good scum should do X. You did Y, which a good scum wouldn't, therefore you are scum. Huh?
I see you words either as stupid town play, or a scum attempt to establish value.

What is X, and what is Y? And how is claiming to have a night power scummy? Why would you automatically assume that I didn't have a night power and was scum? You are not making any sense.


IH:
That was a horribly batched defense of Tamuz there. Soft claiming is not the same as ROLE CLAIMING, which Tamuz accused me of being scum and doing. Where were you trying to go with that? He later said that I *did* claim, because I claimed to have a night action - but that doesn't match at all with his first post. Why would you validate his statement?

Also, I thougth maybe you weren't caught up when you voted for LML, but, apparently you are, and are defending it. If LML is neither town nor scum, then he's, what, a survivor? Which means he's still a wrong vote. Given what we do know about him - that hasn't been proven wrong - there are a lot of other avenues to be following right now, and I can't understand why you are pushing this one.

Also, for IH's reference.

Over the past few weeks, mafias have been popping up all over. In cities across the countryside: from idle Vallensburg to the larger Garren’s Creek, towns across the country have had mafias formed by angry citizens. Some succeeded, and some failed. The largest attacks seemed to take place at Turroville and Townelle, moderately large towns located in the southern fields. Luckily, both failed

(well, Townelle did fall to a ‘Duo Killer’ faction, but that’s not really a mafia)

.

My opinion of the trio killers not exactly being a mafia was based on the wording of the first post - just like all the other games were. Come on, man, get with it.

Well, three people who were thought to be dubious yesterday are dead and all three turned up innocent. I'm less surprised that Jeep/Battle Mage was innocent, but rather surprised about cubs and xxyzz.

I need to digest this new info and look back over Day 1 before making a new/improved lynch list.

Do you think that means anything to people who (ahem) focusses exclusively on getting those three lynched while avoiding other wagons?

I'm going to metagame Zindy right now and find him likely innocent at the fevor he went after a mislynch of Xyzzy.

Please explain that metagame because it makes no sense. Someone who actively seeks a mislynch should be considered scummy, not likely innocent.

My opinion on xyzzy's death:
I think that if a vig-poisoner had targetted xyzzy, he'd probably start the next day looking for additional scum - either xyzzy would die or not, but it was not worth focussing on then.

An SK on the other hand would probably maybe TRY to put more attention on xyzzy - maybe even lead an attack against him, because then when xyzzy mysteriously dies it would crete a lot of confusion. Which is why I don't understand teh whole "Xyzzy is dead, let's lynch MGM" thing that just cropped up. I think looking at the people who initially went gung ho over xyzzy without considering other things should be looked at.

[Thesp]

That is particularly damning for MGM. He is the only voter on Cubsfan who had a chance AFTER Mith posted duel results to change their vote FROM cubsfan to someone else.

Cubsfan was obv. protown (as I do not believe that that type of power would every be attributed to scum). Yet, you just asked him WHY he challenged me and you DID NOT chnage your vote.

I don't associate Mgm with good play. (I'm sorry to say that, Mgm.) I don't think he's a good lynch.

Anyways, Skruffs are we really to believe you got roleblocked, or are you just scum seeing how far you can yank us along on your RC.

This feels really weird.

Did you get some kind of message that your action was blocked?

This question bothers me.

Also, FOS: Cogito Ergo Sum.

Hmm, looks like Glork/Gaspar beats me to most of the points/thoughts I'm making here.

Except Cubs was Kirk Kerkorian and didn't actually kill anyone. There's no reason to assume he was telling the truth or actually had any functional ability.

It appears he had some sort of ability to at least force the mod to do a duel sequence, which was either quickly crafted or already prepared for such an occasion.

I'm actually surprised BM died last night, as he wasn't really confirmable.... a rolecop is much more likely to be scum than town.

This feels weird, too.

vote:LML MGM, VitR, Logictus, Talitha

I really, really dislike this vote.

i believe this argument between IH & LmL is between two townies... i also believe that since xyzzy is dead, Mgm is the correct play for today...

I'm curious - why?

I also wonder what happens if Cubs did understand his role, but LML was neither town nor scum?

Are there any non-anti-town roles that are worth lynching?

[IH]

IH:
That was a horribly batched defense of Tamuz there. Soft claiming is not the same as ROLE CLAIMING, which Tamuz accused me of being scum and doing. Where were you trying to go with that? He later said that I *did* claim, because I claimed to have a night action - but that doesn't match at all with his first post. Why would you validate his statement?

Claiming to have a night action=a softclaim=a scummy claim

Also you're trio killers argument is pure semantics. You know that it is TECHNICALLY a mafiate family = P. A group of players who win if they are the majority and have one kill.

Are there any non-anti-town roles that are worth lynching?

I personally advocate Survivor lynches myself, after having lost many a game on IRC from survivor speedlynches.

[Tamuz]

Tamuz, i still don't understand why you would immediately assume that i would be scum because i said i was roleblocked. I

believe you have a reason, but i don't think it's'a public reason

.

And that doesn't feel weird Thesp?

I mean Yay thesp.(which skruffs has said about thesp twice before it got called out, it was said alot more after that).

Skruffs I though you were scum yesterday. I just think you were planting ways of appearing innocent with that. Honestly in this stage of the evolution of our game of mafia what town with half a brain would claim a power role on day 2? An idiot, or a cop who thinks he is going to die tommorow. A claim like that just reeks with 18 'e's of scumminess to me.

And believing I have a private reason? Whats that supposed to mean? You think I'm a cop and you're hinting to your scumbuddies (Yay Thesp) that they should probably kill me if you get lynched?
Or do you know something that you shouldn't?

As to this:

What is X, and what is Y? And how is claiming to have a night power scummy? Why would you automatically assume that I didn't have a night power and was scum? You are not making any sense.

X and Y come from

Of course, if mafia has a roleblocker, and they blocked me, they would of course immediately want to discredit me for it, wouldn't they? Only they'd want to wait until a more oppurtune time, after more had been revealed. You jumped the gun.

Which really seems to be you saying, hey mafia, THIS is how you should act, not how Tam did.

I think I've explained how the soft claim is scummy, if IH hasn't if not I'll do a 100% devoted post to it to spell it out.

I think you are scum, you slipped up and you should die.

Tags fixed. - Mod

[Mgm]

I don't associate Mgm with good play. (I'm sorry to say that, Mgm.)

Already forgot about Mafia 60, did you?

[Adele]

Sorry I've not checked in yet - I'm loaded down with study like I've not experienced before, and it's difficult for me to justify my 1 hour online being here when I'm meant to be taking tests online. I'm invested, though, and not going anywhere.

Seems like suspicion at this point is mostly on mgm and me - me because I got hung up on the wrong stuff yesterday and mgm... well, I'll have to check that out. I'm not prepared until I've studied the case against him to turn on him. More later today.

[Dragon Phoenix]

I am a bit swamped at the moment, both at work and at home. I will try to find more time later this week, and until then post the obligatory 25 word count thingies to ensure that I am not taken out of the game.

[Talitha]

I still have yet to get my head properly around all these latest developments, but right now I'm interested in Dani. I can't really relate to Dani's confidence that the two people mentioned are town. The opinion as expressed seems a little strong to me, considering how hard i am finding it to get a read on people in this game.

Also, MoS early on seemed more defensive about being voted for than I would have expected if he were town.

So, until I have time to reassess all other players,

vote: Dani Banani

[Skruffs]

Okay, IH... What is my roleclaim, then? How have I jerked you along on it? If I was scum, all I've done is kept myself from being able to claim vanilla later on. If I am town, I've alerted the rest of the town of an existance of a roleblocker. The immediate disbelief and lack of curiousity you and Tamuz show towards what I've said tells me a lot more about your state of mind regarding the game than some others.

Tamuz, aren't you the one who accused *me* of outguessing the mod after i pointed out that DP was using the assumption of two mafia families to explain his suspicions of both me and cubs?

I think we need a tally of everyone who is posting just to avoid being replaced. I know school sucks up a lot of time and such but it's'becoming a too-easy excuse. Kudos to those bucking the trend.

[Tamuz]

Tamuz, aren't you the one who accused *me* of outguessing the mod after i pointed out that DP was using the assumption of two mafia families to explain his suspicions of both me and cubs?

Non sequitor much?
I don't see relevance in this. And knowing me I probably said that, I don't really remember.

[IH]

I don't associate Mgm with good play. (I'm sorry to say that, Mgm.)

Already forgot about Mafia 60, did you?

I contest mafia 60 was an accident, and MGM's play was but a fluke, where he looked at the wrong name.

I will eventually make my MGM burn even better when I can prove MGM sucks <.<;;;;

I still have yet to get my head properly around all these latest developments, but right now I'm interested in Dani. I can't really relate to Dani's confidence that the two people mentioned are town. The opinion as expressed seems a little strong to me, considering how hard i am finding it to get a read on people in this game.

Also, MoS early on seemed more defensive about being voted for than I would have expected if he were town.

So, until I have time to reassess all other players,

vote: Dani Banani

This makes me have a better opinion of Talitha in this game.

Okay, IH... What is my roleclaim, then? How have I jerked you along on it? If I was scum, all I've done is kept myself from being able to claim vanilla later on. If I am town, I've alerted the rest of the town of an existance of a roleblocker. The immediate disbelief and lack of curiousity you and Tamuz show towards what I've said tells me a lot more about your state of mind regarding the game than some others.

You have alluded to a night action, which alludes to a power role, which alludes to the town leaving you alone.
Or have you forgotten about Ubertimmy and Zufaul in mini 414 so quickly?

Tags removed. Please use bold tags only for voting and unvoting. - Mod

[Zindaras]

Why did you pick LML for the duel?

As said before by others, I find this post somewhat odd. I thought Cubs's claim was an indication of Cubstown, so I don't see why Mgm didn't acknowledge the claim in this post, instead simply asking a fairly irrelevant question.

Why wouldn't that power be attributed to scum? Scum who have one or two daykills at their disposal - which a duel basically is - are rare, but it's not unheard of. The only thing that duel proved is that he had the power to initiate one, not that the results would be as he said they would be (kill a scum, guess: not kill an innocent).

How many times have you seen scum with a

public

daykill?

Also, if he was so obviously town, there were plenty of people who could've unvoted after the

claim

. If someone claims the main character you either believe them or you don't.

Wrong. After Cubs's claim in 601, the following people posted:

Battle Mage: With all due respect, the way he refused to provide a Condorcet list late yesterday was one of the scummiest and weirdest things I've ever seen a townie do.
Zindaras: Moved Cubs way down in 615.
logicticus: Moved Cubs down in 611.
foolinc: Moved Cubs down in 617.

So, yeah, you're wrong on that account.

I think Skruffs is far too agressive in 633. Somewhat surprised at xyzzy's death and reveal in 636. I don't think the discussion regarding xyzzy's death method is very relevant. I find Lee, even though he has some sketchy behaviour (I didn't like the flavour discussion regarding the day death, and I think his reason for clearing me, while endearing, is also somewhat tangential), to be likely town, mainly due to his claim. I don't really know what to think about the debate between Tamuz and Skruffs. I think both are somewhat in the wrong. I think Skruff's claim to have been blocked was completely uncalled for and a horrible move if he's town. Claiming to have been blocked is a partial claim, as only a limited amount of roles will know when they are blocked (assuming normal rules regarding blocking). I do, however, disagree with Tamuz's vehemence.

Note to self: Take a look at Adele and Dani.

Until then, a little list to keep you all happy (I'm not even sure if I can do this with my lists, but I really don't have a single major suspect at the moment. They all died):

Vote: [Adele, Skruffs, Mgm], [IH, foolinc, logicticus, Dani Banani, Gaspar, PookyTheMagicalBear, Talitha, Thesp, Tamuz], [VitaminR, Cogito Ergo Sum, Dragon Phoenix], LoudmouthLee, No Lynch, Zindaras

[Dani Banani]

ok, just letting everyone know...

Dani Banani

is an alt for

LyingBrian

... well not as much an alt as a new account... i'll be using this account to play games & LB to mod until i hit my 3 months, then i'll use this account exclusively...

@Talitha
not so much confidence as it is that's the feeling i got reading the exchange... i also am having a hard time getting reads on people, including you...

[Zindaras]

Ah, I thought you were an alt. Well, happy birthday, then.

[logicticus]

Great post by Zindy in 689. I just want to ask a few more questions of MGM regarding his actions after the dual.

The reason I didn't unvote was easy: bad timing. With all the things I was doing during that period, the time between cubs answering my question and the actual lynch was too short to confidently unvote.

LML's claim I was the only voter with a chance to unvote after the duel is faulty regardless, each one of those voters had the chance to do it. I just happened to be the one posting. Who said the others weren't watching the thread?

I have a lot of problems with this post.

First of all, why was the question (Why did you choose LML?) so important that you needed to know the answer to be confident enough to move cubs down in your voting? What answers could he have given to keep him up there? Nearly everyone agrees that after the results of the dual, that both LML and cubs were most likely townie.

And then you try to throw some suspicion on other people who were watching the thread but allowed time to expire rather than move xyzzy over cubs. Thats all unprovable either way, so I dont think it should even be used as evidence for or against.

Sweet. Daykill! *hi-fives dayvig*

Vote: Skruffs

I hate so much about this post.

I can see a real dayvig taking out xyzzy though, as a result of a desire to avoid the deadline rush that plagued Day 1. If you kill him early, then the town has all the time in the world to find a new lynch candidate.

You sound about 100% certain that you knew xyzzy was townie. This is an extremely scummy post.

Dont know why IH is attacking LML. I feel LML is the most likely to be town at this point and there is no reason to be going after him with such vigor.


Finally, regarding the skruffs claim situation. I dont know why skruffs felt like he needed to put out there that he was roleblocked, because if he wasnt, he certainly wouldnt have told us anything about his nightaction.

As for his idea that it allows the town to know there is a potential mafia roleblocker out there (How do you know a townie roleblocker didnt target you? You came under plenty of fire yesterday), I just dont know how it helps the town to know there is a mafia roleblocker lurking around.

Your escalated the argument and making assumptions doesnt help, but its consistent with your D1 actions at least.

Vote MGM

, CES, [IH, skruffs], [the rest], LML, logicticus

[Mgm]

Why did you pick LML for the duel?

As said before by others, I find this post somewhat odd. I thought Cubs's claim was an indication of Cubstown, so I don't see why Mgm didn't acknowledge the claim in this post, instead simply asking a fairly irrelevant question.

Irrelevant? The guy was going after a claimed townie saying "I see no reason why Searching Townie is that believable a claim." He didn't comment on the other claim or the multitude of suspicious people who didn't claim at all - nor did he explain why he didn't find the claim believable, it's easy to confirm. His choice was odd to say the least, and questions that clear up this kind of thing are not at all irrelevant.

Why wouldn't that power be attributed to scum? Scum who have one or two daykills at their disposal - which a duel basically is - are rare, but it's not unheard of. The only thing that duel proved is that he had the power to initiate one, not that the results would be as he said they would be (kill a scum, guess: not kill an innocent).

How many times have you seen scum with a

public

daykill?

That's the best answer I've seen all day and I'm ashamed of not noticing that particular bit of info sooner. You're right. "Public" was the key word here. The only time I've seen scum with public daykills was when the killer was suicidal.

[Zindaras]

Okay, the question wasn't irrelevant per sé, it's just that it would most definitely not be the question that would jump to my mind immediately.

[Mgm]

Okay, the question wasn't irrelevant per sé, it's just that it would most definitely not be the question that would jump to my mind immediately.

I guess we're different then.

logicticus:
I wanted to test my Iocane theory and with cubs claiming the Count, he was my top suspect. The question (Why LML?) would've shed some light on his motives.

And then you try to throw some suspicion on other people who were watching the thread but allowed time to expire rather than move xyzzy over cubs.

As I said - time.

In the interest of moving this game along instead of people focussing on a faulty lynch for too long, I'll claim or rather point to my claim.

Apart from the opening confirmation and a stray letter 'S' my first few posts in the game encode my name and role; take a look at the first letters of those posts.

[logicticus]

For those who dont want to play the game, the first letters (minus the s and confirm) spell:

Eugenie Townie.

Eugénie Danglars — The daughter of Danglars engaged to Albert de Morcerf but who would rather stay unwed. She is presented as a lesbian, and the connotations at this and her running away with another girl were considered scandalous.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I feel something's off with Logi's posts and I have minor suspicion towards him.

I don't like it when people say something like they have a tough time getting reads on people.

I feel that not only is it an excuse to be noncommital, but it also alerts the scum as to who is confused about the game so that they know who they don't need to kill. Basically I don't like preemptive excusing their noncomittalness with something not very useful to the town.

[logicticus]

I feel something's off with Logi's posts and I have minor suspicion towards him.

I don't like it when people say something like they have a tough time getting reads on people.

I feel that not only is it an excuse to be noncommital, but it also alerts the scum as to who is confused about the game so that they know who they don't need to kill. Basically I don't like preemptive excusing their noncomittalness with something not very useful to the town.

Just to be clear those are seperate thoughts right? I have not expressed having a tough time getting reads on people.

[Tamuz]

So Zindy if you disagree with my vehemence, what do you think of the relationship between Thesp and Skruff.

Skruffs constantly pokes happy vibes and a George Bush like support to Thesp (allowing that Thesp is Dick Cheney). And then once Skruffs gets under fire Thesp is there, the gallant knight in shining armour to help bail his childe out.

I

really don't believe those two would be masons. If anything scum would be more believable.