Mini 471: End.

[kravhen]

Woah we posted at the same time.

[Atticus]

Seeing as this day has been going for almost a month, you guys get a deadline.

Friday, Semptember 21st 11:30 PM EST

"

Good Timezz with Deadlinezz

"
Vote Count

NabakovNabakov

(1):

Albert B. Rampage

ChronX

(2):

pickemgenius, NabakovNabakov

Erotomachia

(2):

Blue Zebra, kravhen

kravhen

(1):

theopor_COD

Albert B. Rampage

(3):

Sir Tornado, d3sisted, ChronX

Not Voting (1): Erotomachia

[pickemgenius]

I stand on my vote of Albert. Nothing scummy about voting to -3 the guy who lynched the doc.

I'm happy with my vote...

[d3sisted]

I understand why one would want to vote me, my predecessor was scummy and hell, even I as Old Kravhen went after her aggressively at some point.

What I'm wondering personally about your vote is, are you voting me genuinely because there is a case strong enough against me to vote me (which means you think I am the scummiest player), or are you voting because, I admit it, I'm an easy target for a mislynch?

I'll keep my eyes open for that. I hadn't seen players' actions this way before. It's worth looking into, if I was scum I would've considered doing the same thing I believe.

Meanwhile, Erotomachia is still silent... And pickemgenius' play is still annoying. His play remind me of JDodge's.... Annoying people, geez, they deserve to be lynch on sight.

=P

In one post you managed to thrice refer to your town alliance. Seems to me like you're trying a bit too hard.

You're considering kravhen? Why? On Day 1 everyone was pretty much agreed that deadscilent was the VI, and I don't see what kravhen has done today to base a vote off of.

i was quite taken aback with how defensive Eroto for kravhen.

You're considering kravhen? Why? On Day 1 everyone was pretty much agreed that deadscilent was the VI, and I don't see what kravhen has done today to base a vote off of.

I mayself am not considering Kravhen/DS at this time. But I wouldn't be surprised to see it get some momentum. Pickemgenius seems to have no attention span, so would be a good likely candidate to pile on eventually..as an example.[/quote]Agreed with Nabakov.

You're kind of twisting the context of my original post on its ear. Theo had asked for a vote count, I gave one, he posted that he was pretty sure he was voting Kravhen, which

I

misunderstood at the time to mean he was thinking of voting for him (I had missed his post where he already had). I was simply musing aloud that such a vote would probably attract other votes, and thus was interesting. Why interesting? It could be scum, it could be scum bait. Interesting.

Since the vote was ALREADY cast and hasn't attracted a following, I was wrong. My bad.

I stand on my vote of Albert. Nothing scummy about voting to -3 the guy who lynched the doc.

You were musing aloud that such a vote would probably attract other votes, which is pretty much what Nabakov accused you of doing. Speculating the wagon and not the player.

[Blue Zebra]

Personally, I think the scumminess of what ChronX said was a bit exaggerated.

FoS: ChronX

nonetheless.

[Sir Tornado]

unvote

vote kravhen

I don't like his 698. I also don't like that NabNab and Erotomachia are giving him a free pass due to DS being a VI. I also fail to see why he insisted that old kravhen's and new kravhen's views shouldn't be same if they have same allignment.

FOS Albert

[pickemgenius]

Pickemgenius seems to have no attention span, so would be a good likely candidate to pile on eventually..as an example.

Excuse me...

[d3sisted]

Excuse

me.

ChronX, 695.

[Atticus]

As a note, at deadline it will only take 3 to lynch. Be wise.

[Erotomachia]

Maybe it'll grow legs. I'll see how things develop and maybe ill vote ChronX to make it grow legs. It's all about growing legs.

Rather interesting that you should post this immediately after Nabokov's post saying that such arguments were scummy. I'm guessing that this was intentional on your part...otherwise it's just silly.

[d3sisted]

Pretty sure he's just trying to be funny.

[theopor_COD]

I can't see myself voting for Albert . . . he's pretty much led the lynch of Adel but I find those that followed him scummier (deadsilent, Patrick, Eroto).

Heck knows why but if Tornado was scum I'd expect Albert scum in that situation to bus him. If Tornado's town and Albert's scum then he just let's him rot. It doesn't clear Tornado completely as I could see Albert as town somehow forcing through a lynch on a player he dislikes but I think it's more than likely that ABR is town.

Seperately I agree with Tornado in 705. No one should get a free pass because their previous incumbent was a "village idiot" - I'm also going to have a little analysis of Kravhen 1 and Kravhen 2. He seemed a lot more aggressive and confrontional from my original read. Now he seems more defensive, jokey.

[NabakovNabakov]

You're kind of twisting the context of my original post on its ear. Theo had asked for a vote count, I gave one, he posted that he was pretty sure he was voting Kravhen, which I misunderstood at the time to mean he was thinking of voting for him (I had missed his post where he already had). I was simply musing aloud that such a vote would probably attract other votes, and thus was interesting. Why interesting? It could be scum, it could be scum bait. Interesting.

Since the vote was ALREADY cast and hasn't attracted a following, I was wrong. My bad.

This whole post reeks of straw. It shifts the fault to a much easier to defend source (a misunderstanding in VC correction). The circumstances under which your were stimulated don't matter one bit, all that matters is that your responded in a very scummy manner. Instead of posting

any

sort of opinion on the Kravhen (or possible-Pickem) wagon in your "musings" you simply estimated its chances of success. You say that you were considering "scum, or scum bait," but you take the side of neither, leaving yourself open and free of commitments as scum like to be.

The only in-game issue I've really seen you commit to in this thread is that it was bad for Albert to lynch the Doc, Albert is therefore bad. That can hardly be considered revolutionary and seems like the stilted logic of scum looking for the easy lynch.

Case in point:

I stand on my vote of Albert. Nothing scummy about voting to -3 the guy who lynched the doc.

[kravhen]

I can't see myself voting for Albert . . . he's pretty much led the lynch of Adel but I find those that followed him scummier (deadsilent, Patrick, Eroto).

Heck knows why but if Tornado was scum I'd expect Albert scum in that situation to bus him. If Tornado's town and Albert's scum then he just let's him rot. It doesn't clear Tornado completely as I could see Albert as town somehow forcing through a lynch on a player he dislikes but I think it's more than likely that ABR is town.

Seperately I agree with Tornado in 705. No one should get a free pass because their previous incumbent was a "village idiot" - I'm also going to have a little analysis of Kravhen 1 and Kravhen 2. He seemed a lot more aggressive and confrontional from my original read. Now he seems more defensive, jokey.

When I'm aggressive and confrontentional, people call it scummy. When I'm not anymore, they call me scummy. Well, at least, scum likes to find any little detail they can and turn it in some kind of tell.

I don't know man, maybe you're being honest in your suspicions. I'm just saying what I think, as well. If I did came off as more defensive, maybe it's because I replaced deadscilent, a very suspected person, and I felt under immediate fire for things I haven't done. Sure, you shouldn't completely forget deadscilent's actions, I wouldn't in your place, but it's just how it is, felt like i had to defend myself right off the bat this time around. As for the jokey part, that I'll agree with you. I've became more light, less serious a bit more jokey at times the more I play here. I do have some serious analysis from time to time, and serious posts when they're really needed and it jsut wouldn't be appropriate to say a joke anymore. If you notice, when I first started I was really serious, always paranoid about everything, I was overhyped about this, but now I've eased in quite comfortably. It's a whole new perspective and style of play developping, I would say.

Hope you're satisfied with this reply, it's the most honest I can be about it. I understand I should accept the fact I won't be able to clear myself completely ever since I came back in replacing DS, but that's fine, really. We'll win in the end no matter what happens to me, let's do it.

[kravhen]

I posted without reading Nab's post.

Good work there Nab, and upon further review, I'll have to say I agree ChronX smells scum.

[ChronX]

I posted without reading Nab's post.

Good work there Nab, and upon further review, I'll have to say I agree ChronX smells scum.

Its odd that you'd say that NabNab's analysis is good work when in the previous post you whined in your own defense that:

Well, at least, scum likes to find any little detail they can and turn it in some kind of tell.

NabNab is manufacturing a case out of, to use his own word, "straw". Its nothing. NabNab is trying to make a case on me bacause he must be scum.

unvote ABR
vote NabokovNabokkov

[Blue Zebra]

Well, I'm convinced.

Unvote, Vote: ChronX

[ChronX]

@ SirTornado: what do you think of the specious case against me, since it is being pushed by the 2 people who stayed on the SirTornado bandwagon day 1 to the end?

[NabakovNabakov]

I posted without reading Nab's post.

Good work there Nab, and upon further review, I'll have to say I agree ChronX smells scum.

Its odd that you'd say that NabNab's analysis is good work when in the previous post you whined in your own defense that:

Well, at least, scum likes to find any little detail they can and turn it in some kind of tell.

NabNab is manufacturing a case out of, to use his own word, "straw". Its nothing. NabNab is trying to make a case on me bacause he must be scum.

unvote ABR
vote NabokovNabokkov

OMGUS?

My case on you is comprehensive and based on your play since replacing in. I don't allow myself to be convinced by weak cases, and I certainly don't allow myself to make them.

PBPA:

First two posts (594/5) are too long to quote in polite company.

594 goes off on a WIFOM streak, which I simply considered as misguided at the time. He posits the idea that Kravhen was NK'd because he was on to something (DS specifically) and places an IMGEOY, but that idea gains no traction (NK speculation = useless), so it never appears again.

595 mentions the fact that Camisade had been holding a low/constant level of suspicion before being replaced (though not actually accusing him of anything scummy, just saying that others have), and then completely ignores the fact that Theo promised conclusions and analysis in a coming post. ChronX posits bussing as an easy way to reconcile it with his above post accusing DS, places an IGMEOY, and promptly drops it when the idea gains little traction.

Geez I pay you a compliment and you toss out a cryptic nugget like that?

This is in reponse to Pickem pointing out that NK speculation is bull and refrencing a very odd section in 954 where ChronX calls Pickem a "clear townie" due to his relationship with DS. That he choose to single out Pickem (I was the one who made the original VI post), and considered it purposed as a "compliment" strikes me as odd. It was probably buddying as opposed to protecting a buddy seeing as how Pickem was the first vote on the ChronX wagon.

Yes. The town lynching Adel becasue someone had a metagame issue with her and cross gamed was much more productive for the town. Thats getting a free pass too, since it would be "WIFOM" to suggest that maybe ABR did that with the EXCUSE that it was metagame but really it was game driven.

WIFOM is thrown around too much...the whole early game is WIFOM. Its a game of logic and deception.

<snip>

In a game of logic and deception, WIFOM can't be thrown around enough. Mafia is not a game where one throws caution to the wind or dismisses a concept like WIFOM because it isn't resulting in enough action. I'm not sure if acknowledging that the case on Albert is WIFOM (at best) and then directly pursuing it is scummy or just stupid. Saying something sarcastically doesn't make it false.


ChronX then takes a few posts to bemoan the meta-state of the game so far. Not much pro or con there. Actual play picks back up at 658:

We have to vote for someone, NOW.

Why? And why have you gotten a free pass for the horrible bandwagon you led against Adel?

A blunt continuation of the flawed case on Albert. He eventually concedes the flaw but continues the case:

Couldn't HE have explained that more verbosely? I am not saying his bandwagon on Adel was scummy per se (/agree, endless loop of WIFOM to go down that road with nothing else to go on)...he just doesn't really add much to the game when he ISN'T lynching the doc. IMHO.

Vote: ChronX

Strong case, there. Do you have a posting restriction?

A hint of overdefensiveness here.

I don't like the fact that Albert is being let off due to the "too scummy to be scum" fallacy.

Who's using the "too scummy to be scum" fallacy?

At least one place, Patrick in 557 said:

Even if Tornado turns out to be scum, I wouldn't rush to crucify Albert. It would be a very bold scum move to try and create a counterwagon so late in the day to save a scumbuddy, with a high chance of failing, then backfiring and getting Albert into trouble as well.

I think this has been the general theme of the discussion about ABR leading the lynch mob to Adel. To wit: 'Scum wouldn't do that, he just lost his mind'.

vote Albert

Huh?

A vote for Albert because Patrick made an observation that might have been a fallacy that doesn't really apply to the situation anyway. An interesting thing to note about ChronX's offense against Albert leading up to this vote:

At no time does ChronX actually accuse Albert of being scum.

He accuses him of leading a bad bandwagon and he accuses him of being a poor contributer, but he can never actually muster the case or the guts to actually say he's scum. Once again you get the conflict of lynching to lynch Vs. lynching to lynch scum.

The rest of ChronX's play has already been closely covered.

Summary:
-Opening fishing for leads to a wagon. Judging by how quickly they disappeared, his IMEGOY's on DS and Theo were clearly faked.
-Odd (buddying?) behavior in relation to Pickem
-Doublethinking WIFOM (both acknowledging and ignoring it)
-A cooked-up vote on Albert on evidence which has been repeatedly proved as flimsy
-Paying more attention to wagons than players
-Overdefensiveness/OMGUS


Lynch please.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I don't see the ChronX case. If he made a weak argument against me, it only makes sense that he unvoted. The question here is why did ChronX vote you ??

[Albert B. Rampage]

d3sisted, you've seen me derail bandwagons numerous times and getting scum lynched an hour before deadline. This time I was wrong; does this make you lose all faith in me ?

[NabakovNabakov]

I don't see the ChronX case. If he made a weak argument against me, it only makes sense that he unvoted. The question here is why did ChronX vote you ??

It's not the strength of the argument. It's the motivation. A "die suck scum die die lynch die kthxbye" argument is annoying, but at least it shows more conviction than what ChronX has done.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Alright then.

Unvote, vote ChronX

[Albert B. Rampage]

(claim plz)

[kravhen]

I posted without reading Nab's post.

Good work there Nab, and upon further review, I'll have to say I agree ChronX smells scum.

Its odd that you'd say that NabNab's analysis is good work when in the previous post you whined in your own defense that:

Well, at least, scum likes to find any little detail they can and turn it in some kind of tell.

NabNab is manufacturing a case out of, to use his own word, "straw". Its nothing. NabNab is trying to make a case on me bacause he must be scum.

unvote ABR
vote NabokovNabokkov

My first quote was about when people whined about me being too aggressive or not enough, meaning no matter how aggressive I am, scum will just scumify anything if they can word it out to sound right. Applies to any other "wifom" detail or wtv.

NabNab did something quite different. He elaborates on his position.
IMO, that second part of your post stinks, alot. What I mean is, I think thats the part that gives you away. Just like BlueZebra, I'm convinced.

Unvote Vote: ChronX

Way too easy.