Mini 496 - Wild West Mafia. Mod Abandoned

[pdcakes]

got it twomz. anyway give me a little while to read everything

[Aimee]

The main thing I like about it is the fact that it flat out forces every player to sit down and seriously question their thoughts about each player in the game. Maybe it's just me seeing myself in others, but I reckon people will err on the side of not doing something if they believe they are already doing enough (despite the fact the thing they

are

doing is the wrong thing), if you're with me. Being forced by a model like this to organize your thoughts and back up your opinions in a way you really feel like you can stand behind is a good thing, I think.

I agree with this.

It's also good because later you can connect people together due to their responses. It makes things clearer, which is always a benefit.

Well I assume the advantage is that we can catch scum in changing their suspicions, which is unhelpful since scum never really need to change their suspicions, while town do.

I unequivocally disagree with this. How can you say scum don't change their suspicions but town do. If it's that simple, then all we would need to do is ask for scum lists, and find out which ones had changed, and then we would have found the scum.

I don't like how one-dimensionally you assume Mafia to be.

Then it also helps scum choose their nightkill, find powerroles, and form effective bandwagons and mislynches.

This is absurd. You could quite as easily say it gives the town the

direction

to continue.

I'm at a loss conceptualising how it can be argued that scum can do all this from just a scum list.

Try again?

[Paradoxombie]

My parts are in bold

The main thing I like about it is the fact that it flat out forces every player to sit down and seriously question their thoughts about each player in the game. Maybe it's just me seeing myself in others, but I reckon people will err on the side of not doing something if they believe they are already doing enough (despite the fact the thing they

are

doing is the wrong thing), if you're with me. Being forced by a model like this to organize your thoughts and back up your opinions in a way you really feel like you can stand behind is a good thing, I think.

I agree with this.

I don't think it's a bad point either

It's also good because later you can connect people together due to their responses. It makes things clearer, which is always a benefit.

Well I assume the advantage is that we can catch scum in changing their suspicions, which is unhelpful since scum never really need to change their suspicions, while town do.

I unequivocally disagree with this. How can you say scum don't change their suspicions but town do. If it's that simple, then all we would need to do is ask for scum lists, and find out which ones had changed, and then we would have found the scum.

I didn't say they "don't", I said they "don't have to." Town players need to be able to change suspicions, since they usually start semi-random, while scum never "need" to do anything but avoid suspicion. If not changing their opinion avoids suspicions, then I'm sure scum will be able to do it better than town, whose suspicions are real

I don't like how one-dimensionally you assume Mafia to be.

I'm the one here who's willing to accept both sides of the argument, here.

Then it also helps scum choose their nightkill, find powerroles, and form effective bandwagons and mislynches.

This is absurd. You could quite as easily say it gives the town the

direction

to continue.

How? So you can know who's most suspected and target them?

I'm at a loss conceptualising how it can be argued that scum can do all this from just a scum list.

Their nightkill will be the least suspected players, their bandwagons will be on the most suspected players. They'll find powerroles by looking for people will unusual suspicions(players who don't suspect a highly suspected players without great reasoning could be a cop or Mason or doctor after a failed nighkill, it works just like we'd find scum from their lists.)

Try again?

I really don't care much whether I convince you or not. My suspicions are all out in the open already, anyway.

[curiouskarmadog]

Then it also helps scum choose their nightkill, find powerroles, and form effective bandwagons and mislynches.

This is absurd. You could quite as easily say it gives the town the

direction

to continue.

I'm at a loss conceptualising how it can be argued that scum can do all this from just a scum list.

this isnt all that absurd, if a town all puts together a scum list...one tactic could be NK for the person who does not pop up on the any (or many) of the lists...mafia can judge who the town thinks is most suspicious and leave them in the game.

Ok, I just read para's response and he says most of the samethings I just did.

all this being said, I dont mind scum lists, because I have a feeling it will get the town talking (defending/counter attacking)...and that is always good for us.

[Paradoxombie]

I'm very angry that I said "here" twice in one sentance.

[Twomz]

Para, normally most players in any size game can come up with one or two "main" suspects, even day 1. But, it is not always as easy to find the 3rd, and it usually requires a reread at least. My list before I started working on my Top 3 scum list was pdcakes and ryan... and look what I ended up with after looking over the thread. I might not have suspected you for several days if I had not done my T3SL. Finding small clues for the extra suspect(s) are the main reason in my eyes to do the list. Sure, if everyone has the same 2 or 3 people on their lists, it makes it easier to decide who to lynch. But the main reason to do it is to force people to read and post.

One of the reasons I do not mind that you are not doing one is that you obviously have been reading and posting, so forcing to you think and post are not on the top of my to do list.


<Is waiting on pdcakes>

[Simenon]

grr, I'll get to this tomorrow.

[GodOfWine]

Para, you mentioned that you have already stated who you find the scummiest so there is no reason for you to post that information again, but instead of reiterating those people in list form (without the details which were allegedly posted earlier) they were never mentioned again, since you began your discussion on whether or not scumlists are beneficial.

Would you mind just giving us the names because I can't quite remember you making very many suspicions public, but I don't always trust my memory.

[Paradoxombie]

In conclusion,

Fos: Twomz and Pdcakes

if only because there's nothing else happening.

[Aimee]

Then it also helps scum choose their nightkill, find powerroles, and form effective bandwagons and mislynches.

This is absurd. You could quite as easily say it gives the town the

direction

to continue.

I'm at a loss conceptualising how it can be argued that scum can do all this from just a scum list.

Fair point, but what I was trying to say is that the advantages it gives the town are

greater

than the advantages it gives the scum. Do you agree with this?


this isnt all that absurd, if a town all puts together a scum list...one tactic could be NK for the person who does not pop up on the any (or many) of the lists...mafia can judge who the town thinks is most suspicious and leave them in the game.

Ok, I just read para's response and he says most of the samethings I just did.

all this being said, I dont mind scum lists, because I have a feeling it will get the town talking (defending/counter attacking)...and that is always good for us.

[Paradoxombie]

Fair point, but what I was trying to say is that the advantages it gives the town are

greater

than the advantages it gives the scum. Do you agree with this?

I assume this is your response, and my answer is no.

[GodOfWine]

FoS: Thin Man

Do something about it.

[Thin_Man]

what?

[Paradoxombie]

I'm going to guess that GoW was looking at your final post on the previous page, because he forgot there was another page.

[Thin_Man]

My three are Adele, Kabenon and Ryan, I think. There's a fair gap between the first two and Ryan, though.

[pdcakes]

Alright twomz: here is my list (im gonna do top 3 most suspicious)

Most suspicious:
Thin man/ sir wario:
After reading all the posts the thing that stood out the most to me was thin mans vote of wario in post 57. There is no explanation of this at all. And when prompted by Aimee in post 71 to explain thin man says he wont. But after that his vote on wario was not mentioned again. by Anyone. It really bothers me how no one commented on it especially wario. I know if someone voted me then i would want to know why.

Ryan: You really havent contributed to the game. You post every now and then but you dont really seem to help discussion, you more seem to just back up what someone else said. and i dont buy the claim that there wasnt anything to jump on. and your post 165 bothers me because you do a top 3, bottom three suspicious list but you provide no evidence.

For all the other players i see a lot of good discussion and a lot of people trying to actively find scum. Although i do want to hear what simenon has to say about everything.

I hope this is satisfactory.

[Twomz]

I think everyone should just go ahead and post their lists... all signs of organization have disappeared .

[Thin_Man]

After reading all the posts the thing that stood out the most to me was thin mans vote of wario in post 57. There is no explanation of this at all. And when prompted by Aimee in post 71 to explain thin man says he wont. But after that his vote on wario was not mentioned again. by Anyone. It really bothers me how no one commented on it especially wario. I know if someone voted me then i would want to know why.

I've made a conscious playstyle choice not to explain my votes, ever.

[Twomz]

After reading all the posts the thing that stood out the most to me was thin mans vote of wario in post 57. There is no explanation of this at all. And when prompted by Aimee in post 71 to explain thin man says he wont. But after that his vote on wario was not mentioned again. by Anyone. It really bothers me how no one commented on it especially wario. I know if someone voted me then i would want to know why.

I've made a conscious playstyle choice not to explain my votes, ever.

[theopor_COD]

^^

ROFL

I'll sling a votecount at top of the page.

[Thin_Man]

I graduated from picturebooks when I was three. I'll readjust though, and post in shortbus-friendly pictures, if it's really what you want. Sorry, though, I didn't realise I was dealing with the retarded.

[Twomz]

I graduated from picturebooks when I was three. I'll readjust though, and post in shortbus-friendly pictures, if it's really what you want. Sorry, though, I didn't realise I was dealing with the retarded.

[Simenon]

I'm partially caught up. I'll finish and do notes tomorrow.

[ryan]

Alright twomz: here is my list (im gonna do top 3 most suspicious)

Most suspicious:
Thin man/ sir wario:
After reading all the posts the thing that stood out the most to me was thin mans vote of wario in post 57. There is no explanation of this at all. And when prompted by Aimee in post 71 to explain thin man says he wont. But after that his vote on wario was not mentioned again. by Anyone. It really bothers me how no one commented on it especially wario. I know if someone voted me then i would want to know why.

Ryan: You really havent contributed to the game. You post every now and then but you dont really seem to help discussion, you more seem to just back up what someone else said. and i dont buy the claim that there wasnt anything to jump on. and your post 165 bothers me because you do a top 3, bottom three suspicious list but you provide no evidence.

For all the other players i see a lot of good discussion and a lot of people trying to actively find scum. Although i do want to hear what simenon has to say about everything.

I hope this is satisfactory.

What would you like me to contribute? I posted my top three (as asked) and my bottom three. Either of the top three I posted I'd be happy to see lynched.

[Simenon]

My first thought reading Theopor’s status post is “why isn’t there more pressure in this game on Adam?” My first guess is scum trying to avoid seeming opportunistic, and the town following. Which makes me want to zero in on Ryan, CMD, and Twomz.

In Ryan’s fifth post has way too many periods in that ellipses. It’s an off and dramatic reaction to CKD’s post.

I think Post 26 is interesting. Ryan expresses no concern for Adam’s thoughts before ThinMan posts.

Post 53 is a good way for Ryan scum to avoid being caught by the “XXX is scum” role, if it is one. Then again, this relies on Adam being scum, so it’s probably not viable.

Interesting that Ryan calls Aimee quiet.

Unvote Vote Twomz.

Lynch all unfosers.

Unvote

Ryan doesn’t have anything to “jump on”. That wording is odd.

“You can rip me for not stirring conversation.” Admitting to lesser faults but vehemently denying bigger scumtells is a strategy I use as scum.

In addition, my meta on Ryan tells me he likes to jump around and attract attention to himself as town. He's doing the opposite this game: he's posting somewhat infrequently, isn't pursuing any scums very doggedly and his vote seems to be unmoving.
More later.