Mini 500 - Cult Mafia - Game Over!

[Oman]

Mod Edit

Official Vote Count #9

theopor_COD[2](vollkan, tyhess)
tyhess[2](ac1983fan, Trojan Horse)
Flameaxe[1](Dr. Blackstrike)
Dr. Blackstrike[1](Mastermind of Sin)
Mastermind of Sin[1](Oman)


Not Voting[5](pwayne66, Flameaxe, Rump-Wat, theopor_COD, curiouskarmadog)

Sorry Plan was probably the wrong word to use. Perhaps "developed stance".

Does this mean they're town and I'm scum, and you think I'm playing them, trying to gain their trust?

I think they're both scummy, and you're scummy for ignoring that they are or at the very least ignoring why.

Oman is basically saying that you should have joined the wagons unless you can articulate a good reason why not to, and he thinks you are scummy for that.

Actually I don't feel he should have joined the wagons. My point was more that he didn't and his reasons were unsatisfactory. I don't mind people not joining a wagon saying "theres enough on them" or "my gut says no" but the fact that he tried to put some "factual" (in the context of the game) reasoning behind it makes me uncomfortable.

[vollkan]

Sorry Plan was probably the wrong word to use. Perhaps "developed stance".

And what is a "developed stance"?

I think they're both scummy, and you're scummy for ignoring that they are or at the very least ignoring why.

MoS has ignored the actual reasons for the suspicions, but why does that make him scummy?

Also, MoS, what do you think of the

actual

cases against Theo and Flame?
Theo: The case is mostly in my post #145
Flame: My post #94

Actually I don't feel he should have joined the wagons. My point was more that he didn't and his reasons were unsatisfactory. I don't mind people not joining a wagon saying "theres enough on them" or "my gut says no" but the fact that he tried to put some "factual" (in the context of the game) reasoning behind it makes me uncomfortable.

He had no obligation to wagon, but you are going to suspect him if he doesn't give good reasons not to?

[Oman]

And what is a "developed stance"?

He finds them both to be "genuine" which I read as "town". Thats fairly deveolped.

MoS has ignored the actual reasons for the suspicions, but why does that make him scummy?

Because town have no reason to discount reasons like that. I can't see a townie saying "well yeah, but I'll ignore your reasons and just comment on the ones I want to"

He had no obligation to wagon, but you are going to suspect him if he doesn't give good reasons not to?

Read what I said, I don't mind if he doesn't wagon. What didn't sit well was him implying he had reasons to beleive theo and flameaxe were both town, even though he ignored the case on them.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Sorry Plan was probably the wrong word to use. Perhaps "developed stance".

Does this mean they're town and I'm scum, and you think I'm playing them, trying to gain their trust?

I think they're both scummy, and you're scummy for ignoring that they are or at the very least ignoring why.

Oman is basically saying that you should have joined the wagons unless you can articulate a good reason why not to, and he thinks you are scummy for that.

Actually I don't feel he should have joined the wagons. My point was more that he didn't and his reasons were unsatisfactory. I don't mind people not joining a wagon saying "theres enough on them" or "my gut says no" but the fact that he tried to put some "factual" (in the context of the game) reasoning behind it makes me uncomfortable.

So, your theory is that I'm scum and They're possibly scum and I'm taking a "developed stance" on them why? I'm not sure what the point of your accusation is. You don't have to be sure of our alignment, but your statements suggest a theory. I want to know the specifics of that theory.

[Mastermind of Sin]

And what is a "developed stance"?

He finds them both to be "genuine" which I read as "town". Thats fairly deveolped.

MoS has ignored the actual reasons for the suspicions, but why does that make him scummy?

Because town have no reason to discount reasons like that. I can't see a townie saying "well yeah, but I'll ignore your reasons and just comment on the ones I want to"

He had no obligation to wagon, but you are going to suspect him if he doesn't give good reasons not to?

Read what I said, I don't mind if he doesn't wagon. What didn't sit well was him implying he had reasons to beleive theo and flameaxe were both town, even though he ignored the case on them.

I didn't read any cases on them. I wasn't going to be influenced in my opinions when asked to say what I think of them, because it's all too easy to just paraphrase the case and make yourself look good without really trying to say what you think. I only read their posts in isolation before saying how I felt about them.

[Oman]

So, your theory is that I'm scum and They're possibly scum

scumMY! I don't know you're scum. My theory is that you are connected to one if not both in some way. I don't think there is three scum in this game (rules post), but I believe there is a connection or if they're town., you're trying to form one (buddying up).

[Mastermind of Sin]

Ok, so let's assume that I'm scum with one of them. What is your theory for the motivation behind creating a "developed stance" on them?

[vollkan]

I didn't read any cases on them. I wasn't going to be influenced in my opinions when asked to say what I think of them, because it's all too easy to just paraphrase the case and make yourself look good without really trying to say what you think. I only read their posts in isolation before saying how I felt about them.

Fair enough; this is a very reasonable thing to do.

So, your theory is that I'm scum and They're possibly scum

scumMY! I don't know you're scum. My theory is that you are connected to one if not both in some way. I don't think there is three scum in this game (rules post), but I believe there is a connection or if they're town., you're trying to form one (buddying up).

Oman; you are making my brain hurt. Your "developed plan" / "connection" thing is completely baseless conjecture. MoS has explained why he didn't see them as scummy; that doesn't mean he is buddying up and I really can't see the grounds for alleging a connection.

[Oman]

My biggest problem was not that he didn't see them as scummy, but that he gave crap reasons for it, AND ignored half the case, Vollkan.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Apparently I'm not the only one ignoring things...^^

[Oman]

Sorry I didn't see it:

Motives are hard to guess at in this game. But if you are scum with one of them it basically is a defence of them, to get them off the hook of being lynchbait.

[Mastermind of Sin]

And what evidence do you have that this is something MoS-scum would do?

[Oman]

I do not understand your question. I particularly dislike saying that anything is "evidence" in this game.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Well, surely you've look at other games that MoS has played in, so that you can back up your arguments by showing that he was exhibiting behavior that has been documented as scum for him, right?

[Oman]

NO! I never do that. I can't stand that metagame strategy and I will not take part in it.

[vollkan]

[quote"Oman"]
Motives are hard to guess at in this game. But if you are scum with one of them it basically is a defence of them, to get them off the hook of being lynchbait.
[/quote]

If that's the case, why are you suspecting MoS? Sure, IF MoS is scum then maybe this argument has some persuasiveness, but given our current level of knowledge I can't see the basis for saying his behaviour is more scummy than pro-town/neutral.

[Oman]

The reason I suspect him originally began with his small half-post about theo and flameaxe. Then his defence contained very little about the actual case on them.

I'm not sure what the motives are in that, I'm not sure why either type of MoS (protown, scum, neutral, cult) would have done it, but it didn't sit well with me as a protown action.

[Dr. Blackstrike]

Catching up now...

-Doc "Will post something of value later" Blackstrike

[pwayne66]

Talk about brains hurting, I'm not even sure I follow what is going on anymore

It seems that:

1) MoS posts defending FlameAxe and Theo
2) Oman calls him out for it
3) MoS and Vollkan beat the hell out of him over semantical issues.
4) Lost in the dust is any answers from MoS on how he reconciles Flameaxes' actions against the Doc. Lost is his answers about how posting content clears Theo.
5) MoS doesn't bother reading other's viewpoints as they might influence him
6) This is AOK with Volkan.

Am I missing something?

[Mastermind of Sin]

The reason I suspect him originally began with his small half-post about theo and flameaxe. Then his defence contained very little about the actual case on them.

I'm not sure what the motives are in that, I'm not sure why either type of MoS (protown, scum, neutral, cult) would have done it, but it didn't sit well with me as a protown action.

The answer to that is easy. Just because it's not the answer you expect doesn't mean it's not true. Town-MoS would obviously just want to tell the truth, and that would be the motivation for saying what he did.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Talk about brains hurting, I'm not even sure I follow what is going on anymore

It seems that:

1) MoS posts defending FlameAxe and Theo
2) Oman calls him out for it
3) MoS and Vollkan beat the hell out of him over semantical issues.
4) Lost in the dust is any answers from MoS on how he reconciles Flameaxes' actions against the Doc. Lost is his answers about how posting content clears Theo.
5) MoS doesn't bother reading other's viewpoints as they might influence him
6) This is AOK with Volkan.

Am I missing something?

I'm not arguing semantics. You missed that.

[Mastermind of Sin]

NO! I never do that. I can't stand that metagame strategy and I will not take part in it.

So, you don't like having proof that someone has slipped up in their scum playstyle and lynching them as scum? Why would you not support a metagame that kills scum? This seems odd to me. It's one of the few metagames that actually works on a majority of players. It is illogical to not support it.

[pwayne66]

I suppose if one thing were to bother me hear it would be this: It seems that Oman is expected to write verbatim his case against you and how he believes that you are connected to your partners, yet he is admonished for not being satisfied with your case that Theo and Axe are protown b/c they seem geniune to you.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Because there is a difference. I have said they seem protown to me. That's it. All I said is that I read through and they seemed genuine to me. It's not like I'm saying they haven't done anything that can be seen as scummy. However, I believe that what they have done was what they believe to be in the interests of the town finding scum, as opposed to some devious scum plan.

Oman, on the other hand, has called ME scum. Not scummy, scum. Voting someone is not a mark of "scummy". You vote someone because you believe they are the most likely scum out of everyone living in the game. That is a much stronger position than what I took for Theo and Flameaxe, so of course I'm going to question him on it. It's not like I've ignored the questions he asked about what I said. I answered him, even if he didn't like the answers. I feel that I am at the very least entitled to ask questions of him, because he's

trying to get me killed

. There is a big difference between that and me saying that I'm not willing to vote someone at the moment. I don't care if he doesn't like what I said about those two, honestly. I'm not "admonishing" him for it, as you said. He can think what he likes, but if he tries to kill someone I know is protown, I'm going to do something about it, obviously.

[Guardian]

shameless filler post.