Mini 474 - Bergamo Bump-Off (Game Over!)

[VampanezeHunter]

GO REMAINING SCUM!

Sorry Vampanese, too much wordage for a Bah post - Mod

[death_omen]

I'm assuming since DO's alive that he was blocked again, yes?

So who's the last scum and who's the SK? I'm gonna have to re-read later when I have more time.

yep you guessed it I got blocked

again

. Here's my two cents:

1. The mafia have a role blocker and instead of killing me because they know I am a cop they chose to block me, which basically takes me out of the picture and renders me with no information.

Last night the player i investigated was

Hijati and it failed

.

Since i investigated Malchonn (Aimee) on n1 and it failed she turned out scum then I investigated Hijati last night and it failed again, I dont think this is a mere concidence, maybe my cop role when used against a mafia member fails to work..

2. There is a town alligned roleblocker who is plain stupid and is really checking whether or not my identity is true. If this is the case please stop doing this as this is extremely frustrating..

The odds of a mafia roleblocker or the chances of my cop abilities not working on mafia members are very high.

If we have a vig I think they should claim so we can work on the next play

together

and hopefully nail the last mafia member together.

If we have a sk I have one message: You are dead today sonny I will make sure you are lynched personally.

We need to also keep an eye on Somestrangeflea he also falls under one of those lurk a lot scums.

[death_omen]

GO REMAINING SCUM!

Someone deport this guy..

And i think he knows a bit more then he is letting on, there may just as well be a sk involved in this story.

GL with life Godfather: VampanezeHunter.

[SeraphicMirth]

Bah! GO TOWN!!!

[Karen]

The odds of a mafia roleblocker or the chances of my cop abilities not working on mafia members are very high.

the odds of you being mafia with a false roleclaim are very high also.

If we have a vig I think they should claim so we can work on the next play

together

and hopefully nail the last mafia member together.

khelvester was vig, and he's dead. on N1.

If we have a sk I have one message: You are dead today sonny I will make sure you are lynched personally.

you're not really going to kill yourself, are you?

We need to also keep an eye on Somestrangeflea he also falls under one of those lurk a lot scums.

whatever happened to your "sure" thoughts against nelly being scum? why the sudden change from the previous day?

[Nelly632]

Vote: Muerrto

I honestly don't see a reason to change my vote from last time, he defended Hunter and hunter came out Scum.

[Muerrto]

Vote: Muerrto

I honestly don't see a reason to change my vote from last time, he defended Hunter and hunter came out Scum.

Lol and Aimee voted and blasted hunter and she was scum. Kinda puts that whole logic train in perspective, doesn't it?

Now granted scum can bus, but why bus the godfather? He's immune to investigation. It's insane.

But you're welcome to your opinion. I just wondering if by that same logic that you believe DO is scum too cause I've defended him. Oh and Vampdog.

[Muerrto]

EBWOP:In fact I'm almost of the belief that Nelly could actually be our SK. It would definitely explain the speed hammer and the simply joining any vote wagon that forms.

Day 1 was DO, then Khel. Day 2 he was all about suspecting me then switched to VH when that wagon started.

That's not 100% mind you but we do need to find the frickin SK.

[Nelly632]

EBWOP:In fact I'm almost of the belief that Nelly could actually be our SK. It would definitely explain the speed hammer and the simply joining any vote wagon that forms.

Day 1 was DO, then Khel. Day 2 he was all about suspecting me then switched to VH when that wagon started.

That's not 100% mind you but we do need to find the frickin SK.

Actually I jumped on VH before the wagon started and if you recall I didnt even havce my vote on him when he was lynched.

Question:

Aimee was the one who was claiming you were scum right?
(I am fairly sure she was but right now I am too lazy to pull up a new window simply for the purpose of confirming this)

[Hjallti]

It seems we are left with 5town (or 4town, 1neutr), 1SK and 1scum. Is that something we can use as a fact, or is it highly possible to have something else?

Last night the player i investigated was Hijati and it failed.

Maybe it failed because that player is not in this game

I just saw I had to answer Aimees questions, from the previous day. As far this is still interesting (I know it is frustrating when the answers can use hindsight, but I didn't see them before the twilight came, moreover she died).

1) What's your actual opinion of death_omen. I never saw what you commented about him, but do you think he is scum or town?
2) Are you happy with your vote on VampanezeHunter?
3) Similarly, do you find Nelly more likely to be scum or town

1. Hard call, but I suspect him. I hoped he would have made a real claim now, but it is still that same fuzzy thing. I find that hard to read.
I don't have enough experience, and I believe muerrto told this mod has the habit to use complicated roles, but I find it hard to get a logical explanation. Here are two attempts:
*** death_omen is scum, who hopes that an unlikely claim would make it more believable, this is some one level WIFOM-argument.
*** death_omen is really a cop, who gets roleblocked by someone.
In that case that person needs to have a very good reason to do so. I see two possibilities:
° the (a) remaining scum is a roleblocker.
° there is a lyncher who has deah_omens name, with roleblocking abilities (I don't know if that is possible at all but if so it fits this puzzle)
2. Yes, and that would have been my answer yesterday. Otherwise I would have taken it off.
3. I think Nelly is town, who got frustrated, I was not able to read through that frustration at first (that's why I found it scummy, but than he calmed down, and it all seems to make sense if you read it from a frustated-town perspective).

[Muerrto]

Aimee was the one who was claiming you were scum right?
(I am fairly sure she was but right now I am too lazy to pull up a new window simply for the purpose of confirming this)

Yes. Not to use WIFOM to try and prove my innocence but that means if I'm scum then Aimee called out BOTH her partners in one swoop since both her and VH were scum.

That'd be...interesting to say the least.

[somestrangeflea]

It seems we are left with 5town (or 4town, 1neutr), 1SK and 1scum. Is that something we can use as a fact, or is it highly possible to have something else?

It's not something we can use as a definite fact, but, IMO, it's quite likely that that is the current state of affairs.

I would just like to bring up the point that, considering death_omen has no results, and that this is a closed setup, d_o's claim as a Cop should not effect our decisions today. From an NPOV, there is just as much chance as d_o being scum as anyone else at this point in the game.

[Nelly632]

Yes. Not to use WIFOM to try and prove my innocence but that means if I'm scum then Aimee called out BOTH her partners in one swoop since both her and VH were scum.

That'd be...interesting to say the least.

That is exactly what I was thinking I found it highly unlikely for her to blast both of her Scum partners and since we know VH was scum then I can accept that you are town.

Unvote

[death_omen]

If i was a scum faking a cop claim. Don't you think I would be running circles around you guys with last nights "fake" investigation.

[Hjallti]

If i was a scum faking a cop claim. Don't you think I would be running circles around you guys with last nights "fake" investigation.

Could you explain this expression? (I do not understand it.)

Anyway, it seems to be always a WIFOM argument to say that this claim is not fake for any reason: you might show your claim is totally protown or not-scum, but in any case that very proof can be the reason why you are faking it.
To say it short: a protown claim can be a very got scum tactic.

I think SomeStrangeFlea could be right to say we shouldn't let the claim interfere. On the other hand, understanding what could have happened would be interesting, but than again; the mod is very much sure we won't get the picture before we get it from him.

How unlikely is a lyncher-role blocker - role?

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

I think SomeStrangeFlea could be right to say we shouldn't let the claim interfere. On the other hand, understanding what could have happened would be interesting, but than again; the mod is very much sure we won't get the picture before we get it from him.

How unlikely is a lyncher-role blocker - role?

This is the 2nd time that a question of how difficult/weird this game is has come up. The games on this site are run in a fairly strict manner, with certain requirements needing to be met. I suggest everyone read over this Wiki entry:

http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Normal

to get a feel for how normal games in general are constructed.

[Hjallti]

I am aware of that. I am in fact very happy with complicated games. They are more fun. My question was really meant to be in-game. I think the role-blocker lyncher combination is a possible explaination for death_omen's failures, but I want to here other opinions about it. It is only one of three possible scenarios (d_o scum, scum roleblocker, lyncher-roleblocker), as far I can figure out, but it seems the most unlikely. That is why I asked it a bit negative.

[Hjallti]

EBWOP we are in a normal, sorry

I think should forget about the lyncher, then. We have a role-blocker-scum or a false-claiming scum, If I understand right.

[vampyrusddg]

I'm back properly now, interweb plumbed in and all

I'll be having a proper re-read and see what I dig up later

[somestrangeflea]

Here's a point that I noticed:

D_O is claiming that he was Roleblocked on N1. There are 2 killing parties, so why was there only 1 kill Night 1?

[Muerrto]

Hm...good point. Why did the SK choose not to kill on night 1?

[Hjallti]

That's not the only possibility...
Two alternatives are (apart from more fancy things like a bomb role, a role change or something else):

We can have a role blocker and a doc. If the doc protected right on either of the two kills we will see only one.

Mafia and SK can both have chosen to kill the deathSauce. Leaving him to be the only victim.

[Karen]

Guys, death_omen is definitely not pro-town. He's not necessarily mafia, since he could be the other killer (SK?) from the non-mafia N2 kill.

yep you guessed it I got blocked

again

. Here's my two cents:

1. The mafia have a role blocker and instead of killing me because they know I am a cop they chose to block me, which basically takes me out of the picture and renders me with no information.

First off, no one would do an honest role-claim, unless the heat was on him, BECAUSE YOU GET KILLED AT NIGHT. His reasoning for not being killed is bad logic. If they knew he was cop, they'd just kill him. They've already killed the vig and the inventor. If somehow it was OBVIOUS to the mafia (but not the rest of the town, some-freakin-how), they would've already killed him. Why role-block when you can kill on N2?

Last night the player i investigated was

Hijati and it failed

.

This doesn't clear nor implicate Hijati, since d_o could be trying to get a townie on his side, or just feeding us misinfo.

If we have a vig I think they should claim so we can work on the next play

together

and hopefully nail the last mafia member together.

IF YOU ARE A COP, WHAT KIND OF COP ARE YOU ? Again, vig was NK on N1, in previous games I were truly a cop, and I never *FORGOT* about who was dead and alive.

VampanezeHunter, GodFather, Lynched Day 2
Malchonn Aimee, Mafia Goon, Killed Night 2

Khelvaster, Vigilante, Lynched Day 1
DeathSauce, Inventor, Killed Night 1
Hyphen-ated SeraphicMirth, Townie, Killed Night 2

a few scenarios here:
a) N1: mafia AND SK killed DeathSauce;
b) N1: mafia OR SK killed DeathSauce, successful doctor save.
c) N1: mafia OR SK killed DeathSauce, successful townie role-block.
d) N2: mafia killed Seraphic, SeraphicMirth was a bomb.

So, here, with scenario d), I explore the idea that there might only have been a total of two possibly NKs in the initial setup: Mafia and Vig. With the Vig dead, there was only one possible NK on N2, but SeraphicMirth was a bomb, killing Aimee.

My personal opinion is to favor d) heavily, as this game started with 12 players. With 12 players, and 3 NKs (mafia, vig, AND SK), it would be ridiculous. Unless there were low numbers of mafia, there would not be and SK (I've tried this in other games I've mod'd, still didn't work well). I say we rule out the possibility of the SK.

vote: death_omen.

[Muerrto]

Guys, death_omen is definitely not pro-town. He's not necessarily mafia, since he could be the other killer (SK?) from the non-mafia N2 kill.

Ok, wait a sec. First off you're Pless so I'm NOT saying you're mafia, I'd be quite surprised. But you start off the post saying maybe DO is the SK then end the post saying there's no SK and still vote DO? So are you now saying DO is mafia or the SK?

I'm not sure I agree with your thinking that the mafia would kill DO. I mean, if they already know what he is, why NOT just block him and kill others? I'm not saying I still 100% believe his claim either.

Like I said, plain roles are not this mod's cup of tea so a plain cop would be strange. And being blocked night after night just means he never has to come up with an investigation. So the evidence is stacked against him to be sure.

What I REALLY don't like tho is that he thinks whoever he investigated is scum because his investigation failed. Do I suspect Hjallti? Yes. That's not changed. But do I suspect him because of DO's reasoning? Of course not. That makes no sense whatsoever. Just because his pick on Malchonn/Aimee

happened

to be blocked and

happened

to be correct doesn't mean Hjalti's scum because it happened again. There's just no basis for that at all.

[Karen]

what the...

when did i say DO was the SK? thank you for not quoting me, and completely making up a quote of me???

depending on the pro-town roles, a cop is generally one of the most powerful power roles. why would the mafia let him live? better to kill him and roleblock someone else.

also, what are the chances the scum would randomly (on N1) roleblock someone, and then again do so twice?