NY 191: Denmark Mafia - Endgame

[Davsto]

VOTE: Titus

When

isn't

she scum?

[Davsto]

Man, I remember the last time I played a Large Normal.

MarioManiac4 replaced in and had a speedlynch on him, resulting in his death.

He was town.

I'm learning from that lesson. Mario is likely not scum. I've only played one game with scum!Mario, but I definitely don't remember it being like this.

Firebringer has changed his avatar from Toothless and that hurts me.

UNVOTE:

Not sure how I feel about certain players.

MM wagon is likely to contain mostly town with one scum max.

Unsure where to go next.

[Davsto]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=63181 - Game where he got speed mislynched in a style that this reminded me off, setting off alarm bells.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=63200 - Game where Mario is actually scum.

[Davsto]

That davsto post was kinda scummy tbh.

I mean is there an actual reason or is it just for daring to contradict the easy wagon?

[Davsto]

'Mario was mislynched once, therefore he probably isn't scum' doesn't work by itself.

I mean it's more "Mario was lynched in a style awfully similar to this and this doesn't remind me of his scumgame" but sure, simplify it so you can make it look bad.

[Davsto]

'Mario was mislynched once, therefore he probably isn't scum' doesn't work by itself.

I mean it's more "Mario was lynched in a style awfully similar to this and this doesn't remind me of his scumgame" but sure, simplify it so you can make it look bad.

I'm not, that's literally how it comes across.

Well then you're probably not reading carefully enough.

Man, I remember the last time I played a Large Normal.

MarioManiac4 replaced in and had a speedlynch on him, resulting in his death.

He was town.

I'm learning from that lesson. Mario is likely not scum.

I've only played one game with scum!Mario, but I definitely don't remember it being like this.

Firebringer has changed his avatar from Toothless and that hurts me.

UNVOTE:

Not sure how I feel about certain players.

MM wagon is likely to contain mostly town with one scum max.

Unsure where to go next.

I didn't comment directly on the surprising similarity of the wagon, but I'll make a good bet right now that MarioManiac4 is town.

[Davsto]

So anyway I decided to join in on the Annie avvie fun

[Davsto]

Dave is an interesting case

Umm... thanks?

Shiro may or may not be town: while the obvious sheeping seems like something scum would want to avoid, it would have been weirder for her not to have done it, considering that it's exactly what she did under basically the same circumstances in Pun Mafia.

Dwlee seems kinda scummy (the "I basically agree with everything Elyse said" comment bugged me at the time but I didn't say anything), but it just seems too easy. I know it's always a cop-out answer to give, but it is.

RC? Now RC is bugging me. His reason for voting Titus - along the lines of "you haven't said I'm scum and voted me yet you always do" - basically sets it up so that if Titus

does

decide that RC is being scummy as fuck with the awful excuse for a vote (also, RC is being scummy as fuck with the awful excuse for a vote), it'll look bad on Titus when she starts pushing, as RC can just go "oh, so now I find it odd you're not scumreading me, you've started scumreading me? Hmm..." A sort of Morton's Fork. This bugs me.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

[Davsto]

I think Dwlee99 is a better lynch than MarioManiac
VOTE: Dwlee99

This is a bit of a false dilemma. Keeping my eye on you.

[Davsto]

Not sure if it's scummy to have 3 posts as an ISO.

I mean, if you're potentially leaning towards 3 posts being scummy, why do you - rather oddly - ignore people with 1 post (pistach)? Seems a bit odd to focus on the former.

[Davsto]

I think Dwlee99 is a better lynch than MarioManiac
VOTE: Dwlee99

This is a bit of a false dilemma. Keeping my eye on you.

How is this a false dilemma at all?

Rather than exploring the options, he forces it into a choice between Mario and Dwlee, thus making justifying his vote on Dwlee a lot easier. It's creating the idea of it being a choice between Mario or Dwlee, when it's... really not.

[Davsto]

I think Dwlee99 is a better lynch than MarioManiac
VOTE: Dwlee99

This is a bit of a false dilemma. Keeping my eye on you.

How is this a false dilemma at all?

Rather than exploring the options, he forces it into a choice between Mario and Dwlee, thus making justifying his vote on Dwlee a lot easier. It's creating the idea of it being a choice between Mario or Dwlee, when it's... really not.

He's not forcing anything though...

He is though? To himself.

I know I'm bad at explaining, but I'd have thought you'd get the gist by now.

[Davsto]

I don't like his vote

I hate when people go "I don't like X" but don't, you know, give a reason why. Do you have a reason why?

[Davsto]

Because RadiantCowbells is probably town.

And... town never vote town?

[Davsto]

@Dave, I am wagoning you, why you ignore me?

On the priority scale:
Scumhunting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Titus' slightly odd reason-less wagon on me

[Davsto]

Because RadiantCowbells is probably town.

And... town never vote town?

Let's see if that's the case here!

What do you think of my proposed town perspective for his vote on Titus in comparison with your reasoning? Which is more likely?

Cowbells isn't scared of a Titus tunnel on him. He has faced a full-on Titus tunnel before and come out unscathed (and his replacement proceeded to win the game for our scumteam btw).

[Davsto]

It's not reasonless. You're buddying and not scumhunting.

Proof plz or are you just gonna say things and hope they'll be true eventually?

[Davsto]

Because RadiantCowbells is probably town.

And... town never vote town?

-townpoints for only responding to this part, btw.

Minus townpoints for only responding to the part that explained why you thought I was scum - the answer to the question I asked btw - rather than the bit explaining why RadiantCowbells is town. Riiiiight.

It's not reasonless. You're buddying and not scumhunting.

Proof plz or are you just gonna say things and hope they'll be true eventually?

Quoted reasons.

I meant, you know, show where I'm "buddying" and "not scumhunting". Jeez.

Because RadiantCowbells is probably town.

And... town never vote town?

Let's see if that's the case here!

What do you think of my proposed town perspective for his vote on Titus in comparison with your reasoning? Which is more likely?

Cowbells isn't scared of a Titus tunnel on him. He has faced a full-on Titus tunnel before and come out unscathed (and his replacement proceeded to win the game for our scumteam btw).

He only came out unscathed by causing massive amounts of drama, painting my read as just sour grapes and making sure everyone ignored me after I wasn't playing.

Still came out unscathed after a full-on Titus tunnel, point still stands. RadiantCowbells trust in his ability enough to not be scared.

You open by stating a statement you know isn't true (implied Titus is always scum) then buddying while ignoring me.

Man, scumreading me for making jokes. Wish that was the first time I'd seen this.
Again, show the buddying. Also, considering I've replied to at least one of your posts (even if it wasn't regarding your wagon on me) isn't ignoring you. Also, it seems awfully demanding for you to expect me to constantly talk to you even if you're not directly addressing me when there are a good 18 players.

And boasting about being undefeated scum also feels like something town would do, because. They don't care about looking bad for bragging about how great they are at being scum (as that could prompt other people to doubt their townread on them in this game).

RadiantCowbells always brags about their play. It's hardly alignment indicative.

[Davsto]

Also, ha, the joy of being accused of buddying by someone who has literally begged half of the playerlist to vote with her, with promises of cookies too. Beautiful.

[Davsto]

Your entire ISO is buddying not scumhunting. None of your posts have anything that intends to sort anyone Dave.

Why?

That davsto post was kinda scummy tbh.

I mean is there an actual reason or is it just for daring to contradict the easy wagon?

'Mario was mislynched once, therefore he probably isn't scum' doesn't work by itself.

I mean it's more "Mario was lynched in a style awfully similar to this and this doesn't remind me of his scumgame" but sure, simplify it so you can make it look bad.

I'm not, that's literally how it comes across.

Well then you're probably not reading carefully enough.

Man, I remember the last time I played a Large Normal.

MarioManiac4 replaced in and had a speedlynch on him, resulting in his death.

He was town.

I'm learning from that lesson. Mario is likely not scum.

I've only played one game with scum!Mario, but I definitely don't remember it being like this.

Firebringer has changed his avatar from Toothless and that hurts me.

UNVOTE:

Not sure how I feel about certain players.

MM wagon is likely to contain mostly town with one scum max.

Unsure where to go next.

I didn't comment directly on the surprising similarity of the wagon, but I'll make a good bet right now that MarioManiac4 is town.

Dave is an interesting case

Umm... thanks?

Shiro may or may not be town: while the obvious sheeping seems like something scum would want to avoid, it would have been weirder for her not to have done it, considering that it's exactly what she did under basically the same circumstances in Pun Mafia.

Dwlee seems kinda scummy (the "I basically agree with everything Elyse said" comment bugged me at the time but I didn't say anything), but it just seems too easy. I know it's always a cop-out answer to give, but it is.

RC? Now RC is bugging me. His reason for voting Titus - along the lines of "you haven't said I'm scum and voted me yet you always do" - basically sets it up so that if Titus

does

decide that RC is being scummy as fuck with the awful excuse for a vote (also, RC is being scummy as fuck with the awful excuse for a vote), it'll look bad on Titus when she starts pushing, as RC can just go "oh, so now I find it odd you're not scumreading me, you've started scumreading me? Hmm..." A sort of Morton's Fork. This bugs me.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

I think Dwlee99 is a better lynch than MarioManiac
VOTE: Dwlee99

This is a bit of a false dilemma. Keeping my eye on you.

Not sure if it's scummy to have 3 posts as an ISO.

I mean, if you're potentially leaning towards 3 posts being scummy, why do you - rather oddly - ignore people with 1 post (pistach)? Seems a bit odd to focus on the former.

I don't like his vote

I hate when people go "I don't like X" but don't, you know, give a reason why. Do you have a reason why?

WOW YES LOOK AT ME NOT TRYING TO FIGURE OUT PEOPLE'S ALIGNMENTS WOW

Jesus, Titus, you're better at Mafia than this and you know it.

[Davsto]

Oh dear, what a trainwreck of a post. Give me a minute to pick it apart, a sentence at a time.

[Davsto]

Ice queen order : let put some pressure on Davsto. his latest posts are not good.

Why not?

no this posts are not showing your try to scum hunt.

Ahh, not scumhunting, by doing things such as questioning people's actions, stating the odd townread and even finding something I fin scummy and voting based on it.

I don't like the way you call the one accusing you noob

I didn't do that? I merely said that I am fully aware that Titus can play better than this. That's... not calling her a newb. Borderline the opposite, I'd argue.

and seriously , the only thing is in your posts is buddying and following. the only push you did was against RC

> makes point about all I've been doing is buddying and following
> follows it up by immediately mention some scumhunting I've done, neither buddying nor following

, which I don't like ... because its RC! and RC is always like this ....

I know what RC is like. Please pay attention and look to see that my reason I find RC scummy is

nothing to do

with typical RC traits, rather than assuming I think he's scum because of them.

Also, once again, apparently I'm the one buddying, after you make a post which is literally parroting every goddamn thing Titus has said. Nice one.

[Davsto]

Minus townpoints for only responding to the part that explained why you thought I was scum - the answer to the question I asked btw - rather than the bit explaining why RadiantCowbells is town. Riiiiight.

Responding to the part that explained why I thought RadiantCowbells might be town was relevant, no? I was interested in discussing the mindset behind the vote, not whether or not you yourself were scum.

It wasn't really relevant to me. I'd already explained my vote, and was wondering why you considered my vote to be bad, so I asked. You answered by saying you thought RC was town. While you proceeded to explain why you thought RC was town, again, that was irrelevant to me; it wasn't the question I asked.

RadiantCowbells always brags about their play. It's hardly alignment indicative.

Alright, let's try this: do you already think he's scum, or are you trying to figure him out?

I am trying to figure it out but as you can see I often take a rather backseat approach to scumhunting; rather than hugely talking to them about literally everything, I'll tend to watch them but not make a huge deal out of it, since people tend to react differently when they know they're under interrogation than if they think they're just interacting normally. Plus, interaction really isn't my forte, and I find me doubting myself and getting paranoid a lot of the time (the amount of times that I have a first feeling that I follow a bit but then I doubt myself and search elsewhere only to find my first feeling was right is starting to get irritating).

[Davsto]

Ice queen order : let put some pressure on Davsto. his latest posts are not good.

Why not?

because their not

no this posts are not showing your try to scum hunt.

Ahh, not scumhunting, by doing things such as questioning people's actions, stating the odd townread and even finding something I fin scummy and voting based on it.

you didn't pressure the one you found scummy. you just assumed it.
pedit : let me talk!

I don't get what you mean here. I analysed something and found it scummy. What's up with that?

I don't like the way you call the one accusing you noob

I didn't do that? I merely said that I am fully aware that Titus can play better than this. That's... not calling her a newb. Borderline the opposite, I'd argue.

ok change what I said to what you said. I don't like it anyway.

Why?

and seriously , the only thing is in your posts is buddying and following. the only push you did was against RC

> makes point about all I've been doing is buddying and following
> follows it up by immediately mention some scumhunting I've done, neither buddying nor following

you were buddying and following unless about RC ... (that was hard to understand?)

But surely that means your accusation regarding me only ever buddying and following is less, you know, accusatory?

, which I don't like ... because its RC! and RC is always like this ....

I know what RC is like. Please pay attention and look to see that my reason I find RC scummy is

nothing to do

with typical RC traits, rather than assuming I think he's scum because of them.

Also, once again, apparently I'm the one buddying, after you make a post which is literally parroting every goddamn thing Titus has said. Nice one.

I can't see why you think RC is scum. your points are the thing I think its all are habits of regular RC.

Last I checked, RC purposefully making a Morton's Fork where he leaves the target trapped whatever they do isn't his usual gist.

and I buddying titus hahaha sure. is she accused? what I'm buddying of? I'm just pressuring you to see how you will react and this wasn't townish at all...

Does buddying someone require them to be accused? Being nice and kind and pandering (buddying up to) to one of the generally considered stronger town players in a game is a thing that scum do. Rather often.

[Davsto]

so your agreed the only place you really tried to push is RC? that doesn't seem like a desperate town trying to solve the game.

Expecting me to solve the game about 4 days after it's started? Talk about demanding.

please give me all your reads sir. about every player in game individually.

...

We're 19 pages, 4 IRL days in. I don't have a read on half the players. The majority of the other half I have very shaky, barely-reads on. The minority of that half I have reads on I've already said.

Multiple players have post numbers under ten.

And you expect me to make a readslist?

I started off thinking "you're expecting a bit much from me here" and then Christ did it escalate.

Early game, I look for little things. I look at the smaller picture - small things that catch my eye, little things that people do. I don't even consider the bigger picture (making readslists of allllll the players, even having good reads on all the players) until at least several game days in, and sometimes I don't get around to that at all.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that making readslists isn't my style usually. Early on? Fuck no.

PEdit @Grib: I think my wagon is bad and largely founded on points I've mostly disproven. Titus' vote is weak, but I'm currently unsure if she's scum for it, Shiro's shameless sheep is entirely not-alignment-indicative, your vote is probably the most justified, and Frozen Angel is making me have to physically resist typing her name within vote tags.

Pedit Pedit: You're... not a fan of yourself? That's somewhat sad.

[Davsto]

...Dwlee, not Dav

[Davsto]

It's not even 9PM yet why am I failing to read my own name

[Davsto]

@Dave, you can give reads on the active players. Second, even one post is enough to form a read sometimes. Give reads on who you can.

Why do that? I focus on single scum at a time. Giving plenty of reads just lets scum know if I've got my eye on them. Giving only relevant reads is necessary in my opinion; scumreads if I'm interacting and pushing them, and townreads on people who I feel are being unnecessarily wagoned/scumread, such as poor little MarioManiac.

Dave has been obvtown leader in Nether's game and Loth.

So obvtown I got lynched in both of them. Also, I'm fairly sure I spent both of those games focusing on singular scum rather making readslist on every player I could. Also, you know of more passive towngames of mine, such as Secret Alt 2 and Dead of Winter.

Dave isn't scumhunting. You cannot give specifics about what doesn't exist. :-p

I think she meant specifics on buddying, such as quotes of me buddying, which you still haven't done.

[Davsto]

See Dave, you can get a read from three posts.

No, Titus.

You

can get a read from three posts.

[Davsto]

See Dave, you can get a read from three posts.

No, Titus.

You

can get a read from three posts.

Why won't you tellus what reads you have?

Why do that? I focus on single scum at a time. Giving plenty of reads just lets scum know if I've got my eye on them. Giving only relevant reads is necessary in my opinion; scumreads if I'm interacting and pushing them, and townreads on people who I feel are being unnecessarily wagoned/scumread, such as poor little MarioManiac.

[Davsto]

In Nether you were setup spec lynched by the entire scumteam, not based on play. In dead of winter, my setup was crazy. :-p

And LotHT? And so what if the setup was crazy in Dead of Winter? I was still town and I still played passively.

Your entire ISO is buddying trying to warm up to people and be defensive. No effort to sort. Still.

Oh for fuck's sake.

Show actual proof I've been warming up.
There is blatant effort to sort when I've fucking said that Mario is town and I've fucking said that RC is scum and I've shown fucking inquiries into what people have fucking said

you are blatantly lying to find excuses and making up little rubbish to scumread me to see what sticks and you're making me hella paranoid because that's exactly what you did in Netherspite and I want to think you're town because I can't see both you and RC being scum together but I don't know any more

UNVOTE:

Going to sleep. Will come back in morning.

[Davsto]

Defensiveness is not a scumtell

defensiveness is not a scumtell

[Davsto]

Now actually going to sleep but you have no idea how much that annoys me.

[Davsto]

Sorry I haven't posted for a bit, the last couple of days IRL have been really shitty. I'll catch up after school today (in about... 10 hours?).

[Davsto]

Will get to this. Was vaguely watching along while I felt like trash and particularly remember a few things bugging me - I'll do one of those nice catchup posts.

[Davsto]

The writing of the post will now commence. Begin the music!

[Davsto]

Defensiveness is not a scumtell

defensiveness is not a scumtell

Then gamblers fallacy.

You have been scum in past games, therefore you are scum in this game.

Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

@Lady Titus

Shiro has gathered all game relevant Dav posts from Nether game for you convenience ^_^

Spoiler:

So basically you're pandering to the confirmed town and buddying up to them knowing that they have the most power in the game right now so hopefully they won't decide to lynch you if you're nice to them? Because that's the air that I'm getting.

Honest =/= right.

I've seen honest reads be entirely wrong and bullshit reads be entirely right. That's why I prefer to think for myself and look at the case before deciding "oh I think it's alright" and voting it, rather than going "mmkay so this conftown person is voting it so I should too".

I probably should have done this while discussing with Spiffeh but I don't think I actually did (which is also why I dislike the "overreacted to the vote on me" comment considering there wasn't one).

VOTE: Spiffeh

I am not comfortable with a massclaim today. It is likely to result in people who are both conftown

and

a good power role and I am seriously against it.

That is to say, it gives scum the knowledge of some really, really good nightkill targets.

I don't see how massclaim would be useful. Due to the three "Random Town" slots in the setup, scum can basically just claim any of the non-unique roles and be fine.

I'm pretty sure Town Random can literally be any town role, and because they're randomly distributed Scum can just claim any non-unique roles and they can't be counterclaimed since there can be duplicates.

Meh. I'm not sold on it. Negatives don't seem to outweigh the positives.

Wait does a Jester lynch end the game?

No but jester causes suicide on someone on his wagon.

Ouch, guess I didn't read closely enough.

With luck, it should hit the scum which are most likely on the wagon.

Oh well. It's not like we gained a ridiculous amount of info from said flip. Mod errors happen.

Anyway, who's the next scum?

VOTE: hiplop

^There's the idea.

And, from these posts alone, you have magically deduced that they are scum how exactly?

My thoughts are that was literally their last post made onsite so we wait for a replacement before we start going after them.

@Dave, Great. I see you don't like mine. Who do you like then?

No-one, at the current time. I'm a misanthrope.

But in all seriousness, it's a tad to early for me to get any clear reads yet. Sometimes I can latch onto something easily but sometimes it takes a while. I'm open to a Jeanne one if the inevitable replacement is bad but right now, it's a silly wagon.

@Davesto, We gotta get two wagons in six days. Yeah, this isn't ironclad case territory we're talking about here. We're lynching dead weight anti-town and doing it fast.

We have 6 days for each lynch.

I just finished a game where each day had a 5 day deadline. We don't rush around lynching the first person we can. We still have almost a week to think about each wagon. Panicking is a terrible idea, as we just learnt.

Or I might be being purposefully obtuse and silly because too many players have a post count < 0 for me to be comfortable lynching again. My vote is essentially on Shiro though~

I was waiting for Shiro to say some super scummy reply to the vote on you honestly but she seems to have poofed away so

VOTE: Shiro

Bleep

@Heartless, All meta is garbage and prone to the very criticisms you say here.

That's not a strained angle. Meta is only a personality tell. Meta shows she's aggressive as scum.

Vote me for having the balls to disagree with conftown.

The only difference between the wagons is I am objecting and Spiffeh was trying to get himself lynched.

Here's my view of what you're saying.

Heartless: I want to lynch town cuz meta.
Me: No. Let's lynch Spiffeh who isn't town and ignore bad meta.
Heartless: Well Spiffeh wasn't groupscum, let's lynch town.
Me: No.
Heartless: Well there's resistance to lynching town, so it must be scum.

Me:

okay so

Heartless: vote shiro
Delenn: give reasons
Heartless: *gives reasons*
Delenn: no

PEdit: are you Shiro's partner?

titus, for all intents and purposes, spiffeh was a mislynch

QFT

???

To me a good lynch is any lynch that avoids town...why do you think it was a mislynch?

You're saying that a lynch that didn't hit Mafia/Evil Neutral is good? The fact that the grief lynch has a chance of hitting town is good? The fact that we got no sort of helpful result from said lynch is good?

titus, for all intents and purposes, spiffeh was a mislynch

acknowledge that, or i'm lynching you

Hardly. He was being pretty scummy(Which apparently was on purpuse). He was a jester trying to get lynched without showing that he was a jester.

@Delenn I actually do think Ank has potential to be scum. Davsto is sheeping conftown and I find that suspicious since he was one of those that said we should not do so just cause he is conftown because Honest=/= right

Difference:
Then, he was all "lynch Shiro"
Now, he's all "lynch Shiro because of these good reasons".
There's a noticeable difference in there, don't you think?

At least that's one Neutral out of the way. Better for a Jester to be out early rather than fucking up lylo for us all.

As in, "it'd be better if we hadn't lynched him at all and we just nightkilled him or something but if we do lynch it's better now than then."
Also, note that I was unaware of the Jester-grief-kill at the time of that post.

Okay so I didn't claim yesterday because I didn't want to out myself because I am a

Sheriff

I inspected Shiro last night and got Mafia.

VOTE: Shiro

Also:

a) hell yes the Jester grief got the Arsonist
b) but this means there was no Mafia kill. Interested as to why.

Jury:

I'm willing to bet that "ika-looking" post was scum faking it to avoid an ika. The reason we're not voting ika now anyway is because it's more important to get Mafia/Killing Neutral out of the way than it is to get a Judge killed, since the Maf/Neut have night actions while the Judge will be powerless after today. Us town are going for Runner but I highly doubt we'll manage it before scum get their way with Ank.

This was me.

PEdit - I recall someone else claiming town investigative at some point. I don't think they specified, but I remember someone doing it.

Apparently no-one said they were investigative like I thought I saw when reading through. I know I've been tired this weekend but apparently I've been hallucinating counterclaims too.

I'm genuinely confused as to how that line of reasoning makes any logical sense. Also, as to how I - who has a currently conftown claim with only two people having not claimed yet - is in the "scum" pile, whilst the two people who haven't claimed are in my Investigative slot.

Also yeh it's not like Kidnapper is literally made to be a fakeclaim for Jailor amirite. I mean she didn't submit the kill for multiple reasons (we know she's not godfather) but ya know.

So, uh, Shiro, does your target know that you're the Jailor?

Shiro was blocked by Delenn.

There is the possibility scum targeted who Shiro jailed as well.

Didn't actually think of that. It is a possibility yea.

Then you might want to tell us who you jailed?

Right, okay...

I'm still betting you being Mafia over a Framer but ya know, might as well unvote.

UNVOTE:

Do you think Dave is scum or framer exists?

I love how you don't consider the third possibility of Shiro being scum. Why's this?

Yeah, no.

I'm claiming investigative, I tricked Ari last night, but I'm confused as to the kill...it would maybe make sense with what jeanne is saying...

Judge has no night action. Jeanne by targeting ika submitted no block is her claim.

Pretty sure Dave is scum here. Now he's been cced.

Do realise there is the possibility of - gasp - more than one Town Investigative in the setup.

*points at unclaimed Runner*

*points at potential of ika being scum*

*points also a little bit at a mafia nokill gambit*

I mean I'm gonna believe Framer for now but ya know.

Okay now I'm actually paying attention to the game I realise that Shiro is probably not scum. Probably.

ugh this is confusing

Sorry, I kinda panicked. I got a guilty and when the two people trying to talk me out of following it were the person I got a guilty on and someone else I scumread a bit yesterday (as being a potential partner too!) so I kinda just ignored what you were saying at first when you seemed to be trying to cast shadow onto me. Now you've properly explained it I see what you're on about.

Sorry about that :/

So... hiplop is saying he didn't make a single post apart from voting during the Court

and the vote was on Ankamius, who we discerned early to be a scum-motivated wagon?

Yeh, hip's almost certainly the Judge. Looking at it, Judge's writing style is kinda hip-y.

So... hiplop is saying he didn't make a single post apart from voting during the Court

and the vote was on Ankamius, who we discerned early to be a scum-motivated wagon?

Yeh, hip's almost certainly the Judge. Looking at it, Judge's writing style is kinda hip-y.

Can you lay out what you think the answer is?

What you mean?

Right, okay.

Town Government - Heartless (Marshall)
Town Investigative - Davsto (Sheriff)
Town Protective - Titus (Escort)
Town Killing or Power - Ankamius (Vigilante)
Town Random - ika/hiplop (Crier)
Town Random - Bins (Crier)
Town Random - Shiro (Jailer)
Godfather - Runner (seems like about a right Jailing target for Shiro, too!)
Mafia Support - Jeanne (Consort)
Mafia Deception - Bella (Framer)
Neutral Killing - Aristophanes (Arsonist)
Neutral Evil or Benign - hiplop/ika (Judge)
Neutral Evil or Benign - Spiffeh (Jester)

That's my guess. Confirms in bold. Really unsure on ika/hiplop, idk, gah. Thing is ika had a post that was apparently him and not-Court during the Jury but I don't know anymore :/

I reckon that Runner is the target for today. Seems like the most likely possibility for the Godfather by very far, and isn't an ambiguous "maybe, maybe not" like Me/Bella and Delenn/Jeane. Judge isn't

really

something to worry about honestly.

PEdit what in the butts are you on about Jeanne!?

PEdit thoughts too - if we get the Godfather (almost certainly Runner) lynched today, then scum cannot nightkill anymore, right..?

I think the tide has turned. Scum could have shot runner to frame them/infoless kill (presuming Shiro jailed runner by poe).

Dave jumping on there was really opportunistic.

VOTE: Dave

If Runner claims invest, we sort him and Bella tomorrow.
If Runner claims protective, we sort him/me or the criers.

Dave's scumflip should clear Bella.

You're adorable. How in the hell is jumping on practically confirmed scum (see: Runner and Shiro blocking them) opportunistic? It's common goddamn sense!

I think the tide has turned. Scum could have shot runner to frame them/infoless kill (presuming Shiro jailed runner by poe).

Dave jumping on there was really opportunistic.

VOTE: Dave

If Runner claims invest, we sort him and Bella tomorrow.
If Runner claims protective, we sort him/me or the criers.

Dave's scumflip should clear Bella.

You're adorable. How in the hell is jumping on practically confirmed scum (see: Runner and Shiro blocking them) opportunistic? It's common goddamn sense!

Not if you killed Runner. Why didn't you vote Bella who is a 1 v 1 as framer in your view?

Don't want to limit the pool?

Because I was (and still am) tired as fuck and as a result my play is shit and screwed up.

Why didn't you vote Jeanne who is 1v1 as a Consort in your view?

@Dave, I have one vote. You faked a guilty.

No I got a goddamn guilty result, not faked it. There's a Framer, okay, and it's Bella.

Give me a genuine reason I am scum because I swear this is confbias crap.

I

Didn't

Fake

A

Guilty




There

Is

A

Framer


It

Is

Bellaphant



Listen

To

Me

goddamn it I'm too tired to deal with this crap, it's 10 PM, hopefully you get this sorted out by tonight.

In case you guys mislynch me though, you can still win!

Shiro jails Runner and executes

Titus blocks Jeanne so that the execute can't be blocked, and vice versa just in case because ya know

that way it should take it down to 4:2:1 tomorrow

lynch Bella for obvious reasons, and then hope to christ you can find last scum

Sorry for any outbursts, I'm in a really crappy mood :/

I'm just annoyed because Delenn is tunneling as the only read there is on me is the "faked guilty" which literally could have been caused by a Framer which is what even they suggested at first but apparently they've now changed their mind (?)

@Jeanne, then if you think I am pulling a fast one, you should be voting Bella. Mathematically there's no other option supposing you're town.

@Dave, The faked guilty is the biggest part in your opportunism.

I will be back later.

But

It's not faked

saiodhflsduighuizdhbfuildzflzdn

This is the stupidest argument I've ever heard!

If you literally have no other proof for me being scum than literally something that is probable (I investigate someone who is being framed) then you should really reconsider if you're even slightly right.

Yea I think my plan can't fail, if you are town Davsto know that at least we will still win

Vote:Dav

Shiro, don't take Jeanne's bait. If you block Jeanne over Runner, the Mafia will still get a kill tonight. That's why you need to jail Runner.

I'm town, I promise, but it seems I can't convince anyone despite you literally having no fucking proof but alright.

VOTE: Bellaphant

But seriously, your only proof is that I got a guilty result on someone when there is literally a Framer in the setup.

THE ONLY "PROOF" YOU HAVE THAT I'M SCUM IS LITERALLY NOT ALIGNMENT INDICATIVE!!!!

It is possible that we can risk it this way and win it

If we lynch dav and it wrong

I jail runner as he said and execute

jeane and delenn roleblock each other.

We lynch bella who will be confirmed framer.

Then we lynch between delenn and jeane. Even if we get it wrong the first time we still win. Judge cannot win alone so it is victory.

It is actually a fail proof victory plan isn't it ?

I find it funny that when

I

suggest that plan here...

goddamn it I'm too tired to deal with this crap, it's 10 PM, hopefully you get this sorted out by tonight.

In case you guys mislynch me though, you can still win!

Shiro jails Runner and executes

Titus blocks Jeanne so that the execute can't be blocked, and vice versa just in case because ya know

that way it should take it down to 4:2:1 tomorrow

lynch Bella for obvious reasons, and then hope to christ you can find last scum

It is literally fucking ignored.

/siiiggghhhh

There's only a Framer if I'm not town

I'm not town because I got a guilty result

This is the most bullshit line of reasoning I've ever heard!

Meanwhile you're sitting there proud that you've got "teh rite resoningg !!!one!!" ignoring the fact that Bella is nowhere to be seen whilst all the pressure is on me.

This isn't a bad AtE, I'm genuinely fucking pissed off at your bullshit. You're town, Delenn, have some goddamn sense!

If we lynch Bella she'll flip Framer and that clears me, and

HOW IN THE ARSE IS RUNNER TOWN!?

If Runner is town then how in hell was there no kill last night? Your reads make no fucking sense.

Also I just realised the tactic won't work because you can't nightkill a Godfather.

So I don't know what the fuck to do now, because if you lynch me there's a plenty good chance we're fucked. Nice job breaking it, hero.

VOTE: Shiro

Gambler's fallacy?

I

@ari, hii. You town this time?

mean

I think Ika's theory isn't terrible, actaully. Narrowing down from the claimed vts and pr without counter can work. Will address this more later.

look

Yeah, no.

I'm claiming investigative, I tricked Ari last night, but I'm confused as to the kill...it would maybe make sense with what jeanne is saying...

at

Ari visited ika....:S

these

Yeah, I can't see a way for there to be two investigatives, and the way dave claimed was super susp.

townie

Ika, runner hasn't claimed. I'm investigative, are visited you last night and set in fire, which maybe you didn't get killed bc of jeanne?? Dave is scum.

posts!

VOTE: Delenn

She is harping on me being scum when clearly I am not. The fact is I know I am town. And seeing she is ignoring that possibility, I think she is consort. I have my sights set on her.

I am town escort

@ika come on, you must have receive some notification. The mod said so couple of posts ago. I am re-checking with them.

Lynching between you two right now is not wise

If I could pick jail target at night it would have been possible but right now it isn't because a mistake means you will stop my execution of potential scum in order not to lose

Also Dav will confirm runner and Bella as scum if he flips town, you or Delenn will provide nothing and even if u.are right and Delenn flips scum I would have to get lucky between 3 targets before flip to stop the kill since she is confirmed roleblocker.

Dav sorry but you are the best lynch for today

I gotcha, now we know that Godfather can be executed, that's the choice.

Jail Runner - execute tonight
Delenn block Jeanne and Jeanne block Delenn.
Lynch Bella tomorrow.

That gets rid of a majority of the scum, leaving one Mafioso. You can probably figure it out from thereon.

I'm not gonna self-vote because that deprives you of any information you can get from votes on my wagon, but I'm not gonna bother defending myself anymore since I am fully aware that I am the best lynch, since it confirms both Runner and Bella as scum.

You go, guys.

@Delenn Why won't you consider the possibility that I am town?

Right

You see the setup?

We know that, if there are two roles of a particular category (Escort is Protective), one of them must either be Town Random or Scum.

However, we are largely aware that in the Town randoms, two of them are Criers and the other is Shiro, a Jailer, due to the flipped roles.

Thus, one of you or Titus must be scum, and from her PoV it's obviously going to be you.

This is also why me flipping Sheriff confirms both Runner and Bella as scum - there can only be one Town Investigative.

Shiro - you jailed yet?

The resistance to my wagon from Jeanne is basically a scumclaim, because she knows that, when I flip town, her scumteam has lost.

Out of Jeanne/Delenn, I'm really damn sure that Jeanne is the scum. Scum!Delenn would have probably pushed my Framer guilty.

@Delenn Any proof I am scum? And I mean real proof, like an action or something, not make believe.

See the whole chart I made with people and alignments and stuffs regarding the different types of roles? If Shiro is town, then there are three Town Randoms (two Criers+a Jailer), and thus you cannot both be roles which fit into the same category. She'd have to be insane not to scumread you.

PEdit Why would I want them to jail you? Runner is the one that needs to be jailed, since he's the Godfather. And frankly, I'll never convince them not to vote me, in a million years. I'm not self-voting, but for town I'm the optimal lynch.

From their PoV, I'm scum, and lynching me is good for obvious reasons.
From my PoV, I'm town, and lynching me will tell them that so that they can carry out that win strategy I talked about.

PEdit PEdit dammit Delenn

Out of Delenn/Jeanne, pretty sure that Jeanne is scum. Several moves of hers are blatantly trying to prevent us from following our winning strategy, for example...

@Shiro don't listen to them, jail me.

Baiting Shiro not to jail Runner - who is almost certainly the Godfather (their killer).

VOTE: Delenn

She is harping on me being scum when clearly I am not. The fact is I know I am town. And seeing she is ignoring that possibility, I think she is consort. I have my sights set on her.

I am town escort

@ika come on, you must have receive some notification. The mod said so couple of posts ago. I am re-checking with them.

Trying to prevent my lynch because she knows I'll flip town, incriminating two of her teammates.

Well, you are insane. Only an insane person would vote a fellow townie in lylo. And I told you, IKA COULD BE LYING.

what does Ika lying have to do with this at all? What about that role stuff that basically confirms you as scum from Delenn's PoV?

That potentially explains the second, but not really the first.

Also, I'm not liking Jeanne's insistent use of the term "fellow townie".

Let me walk you through it.

Only a Godfather or Mafioso can do a night kill.
I blocked Shiro, who confirms that. So I could not have stopped the nightkill.
Jeanne claims to have blocked ika, who has not confirmed. Even if she did, ika has no night action and thus could not have killed. Thus Jeanne didn't stop the kill.
Shiro jailed Runner. Thus runner is the killer or was the kill target. Shiro is conftown.

Dave has a "guilty" on conftown allegedly. He's probably scum reaching for a fast victory rather than a framer existing.

If I am wrong and Dave flips town, Runner is executed, lynch Bella tomorrow. Then Jeanne. Then sort criers.

Also adding to this that Shiro definitely couldn't have been a Godfather being blocked from the NK because I got a "Mafia" result, which you don't get on Godfathers as it's town.

Really sad though. If the RNG for Framer had given me a Cult result, I've had called that and this whole fiasco would be over.

Oh welllll

Identity of the Judge doesn't matter. They can't win if we get the three scum lynched as I'm fairly sure town'll manage considering that two people are confirmed scum once I flip.

Well, here is my answer to you davsto: If ika is lying about not receiving the message, that means I did roleblock her which proves me as an escort. As for role placement, Delenn could be lying about being escort and is actually a consort. However, since you all except Shiro are following Delenn blindly like a sheep, this statement would mean nothing to any of you that isn't Shiro.

Whatwhatwhat?

Can't Consort block things too?

What the hell are you on about?

> I blocked ika so I must be Escort

> meanwhile Delenn blocked someone so they could be Consort

@Dave I am on about how you all are following Delenn like she is speaking the truth and I am a liar while not even considering the possibility that it could be other way around......

Delenn didn't suggest this plan of action of lynch me -> jail and execute runner -> lynch Bella tomorrow -> lynch ??? -> profit. I did. I'm comfortable enough with that.

I am considering the possibility that it is the other way around. This has no change to my actions today.

PEdit everyone has the possibility of being town when they're wanted to be lynched. It's a risk, and without it Mafia would be boring.

PEdit PEdit I'm not advocating for your lynch today, my flip is getting Runner killed and Bella lynched, where the hell do you come into it? What do you want me to do? Or are you just randomly spewing out AtE and flailing in the hope that something good happens?

shiro should nto execute regardless though if runner is gf mostly due to the fact we can keep the nk in check and lynch entirely outside of it and contune

If Shiro doesn't execute scum then scum controls the votes. When I flip town, Runner is confirmed scum, almost certainly Godfather. There are no Mafiosi either so no-one can make the nightkill until there's one scum left, who then becomes Mafioso.

I've thought about this enough because, when I'm the basically-certain lynch for the day, the most useful thing to do is find a way in which town can still win upon my death.

Titus did the actual problem but this post is easier to post - holy selective meta Batman! Because I was town in Netherspite and am not behaving exactly as I did in Netherspite, I absolutely must be scum here! Even if I have towngames which vary and are similar to this! Christ on a bike.

Man, I remember the last time I played a Large Normal.

MarioManiac4 replaced in and had a speedlynch on him, resulting in his death.

He was town.

I'm learning from that lesson. Mario is likely not scum. I've only played one game with scum!Mario, but I definitely don't remember it being like this.

Firebringer has changed his avatar from Toothless and that hurts me.

UNVOTE:

Not sure how I feel about certain players.

MM wagon is likely to contain mostly town with one scum max.

Unsure where to go next.

Mario wagon sucks but everyone's town. I like everyone. Like me too.

So now having vague townreads is buddying? Fucking hell.

That davsto post was kinda scummy tbh.

I mean is there an actual reason or is it just for daring to contradict the easy wagon?

Please don't have a reason to scumread me. Look I objected to the major wagon so I gotta be town. Never mind I am saying everyone's town.

Now this must be buddying, questioning someone's suspicion of me and potentially starting to paint them in a bad light for i- wait a second

isn't that literally the opposite of buddying

?

So anyway I decided to join in on the Annie avvie fun

Obvious buddying. Look I am like everyone else with my Annie avatar.

Need I go on?

Changing my avatar to something silly for a joke is buddying. Riiiiiigggghhhht.

General feel around this point,, RC is likely town.

due to ongoing.

Ongoing game reads. They're like meta but

worse

get to defensive too soon is a scumtell

I don't think I've ever seen this used against scum. Seriously.

Also, oh Christ, fluff, fluff, fluff, it's coming from everywhere like the game is a teddy bear falling apart.

In the interest of cutting through all this fluff,

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Heat

I can get behind this. Plus, I like the people voting for him. Except for AJ, kinda, but nobody's perfect.

Towniness from Grib here - stopping fluff to continue the game will always be townread by me, I admit, but it's surprisingly reliable.

Lady Titus can we form a grand wagon on Zympx?

Explain why Zympx.

Because he needs pressure. He is an absolute zero in the game so far.

Not yet.

People scrambling to counter Davesscum makes me feel like he's more likely to be scum.

Plus his choice and reasons will be valuable. If he doesn't post, he'll be replaced.

There's... quite a lot of people disagreeing with my lynch. Exactly how many scum do you think are in this game?

Spoiler: snip

VOTE:DAVSTO

Because Gamblers fallacy is legit

you're terrible >:c

not moving my vote

Why, pray, is Heartless scum, when he has literally just revealed himself as a Marshall?

I would've really liked to use it later but the chances of this hydra making it very far in this game isn't great given our recent nightkill record.

Let's get cracking.

Get cracking what? Skulls? Because I'm unsure of that.

So basically you're pandering to the confirmed town and buddying up to them knowing that they have the most power in the game right now so hopefully they won't decide to lynch you if you're nice to them? Because that's the air that I'm getting.

What do you think?

I probably should have done this while discussing with Spiffeh but I don't think I actually did (which is also why I dislike the "overreacted to the vote on me" comment considering there wasn't one).

VOTE: Spiffeh

Oh well. It's not like we gained a ridiculous amount of info from said flip. Mod errors happen.

Anyway, who's the next scum?

VOTE: hiplop

^There's the idea.

And, from these posts alone, you have magically deduced that they are scum how exactly?

Selected some posts. Town Dave is aggressive analyzes posts and takes the exact opposite position on gambler's fallacy he took here.

Selective metaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

VOTE: Titus

We should lynch her before she goes all VCA on us.

That is an RVS vote by scum on me in another game. Said player then claimed it was a joke.

To be honest I almost never understand vote count analysis. I've only understood it when reading the hidden temple game since it was obvious with how it was scum vs molla and all scum were on molla. I find vote count analysis confusing usually and I guess xtoxm thinks titus would use it to her advantage. xtoxm probably finished another game with titus elsewhere where titus used VCA to her advantage and xtoxm was thus trying to get back at her during rvs

_____________

UNVOTE:

until caught up

BM was scum in a game I just finished. One head of the hydra voted me in RVS because I was a threat and rightfully called out on it. When called out on it, the other head walked it back saying it was ribbing me.

Dave makes a vote based on me allegedly being a threat. He then claims joke.

Don't think so.

Many times scum fear monger me. Not today.

Okay, fuck this shit. Like, actually fuck this shit.

Even if you ignore the rest of this post for whatever reason, read this shit because it is important as hell.

Now, the game she links, she selectively chooses someone who was scum because they joked about something and then made it serious later. Not to mention the fact that mine was obviously a joke (hate of gambler's fallacy and all), and that I haven't actually made it serious yet (and never will). These are nothing compared to the worst part of this.

Click on that link.

Go on.

Scroll down a bit.

Do you see a post that catches your eye?

How about this one?

Also:
VOTE: Titus

Titus is always scum.

True facts man.
True facts.

See this? This was literally in the same fucking game, this guy was town, and basically said what I said. But no, she picks the example that allows her to paint me as scummy as possible.

This is why,
VOTE: Titus.

I know this post has been Titus-centric, but she has posted the most stuff that catches my eye. I just don't feel that anyone who would provide the meta thing from Magick and remember it so well to use it to compare to me to show how I must be scum would miss the post literally 9 posts down that comes from town in the same situation (RVS!) making the same sort of joke (Titus is always scum lol) is town trying to think about if they're right or not in any way.

[Davsto]

Yup that post is the same fucking game and clearly an RVS joke sheep.

And mine... isn't clearly an RVS joke? Considering my known hatred of gambler's fallacy, you think I would be even close to being serious by making a vote on you in what is fairly obviously RVS territory regarding your reputation for often being scum?

Your mirrored scum almost verbatim that I had seen.

I also mirrored town very similarly that you had seen.

Scum try to start wagons on me in RVS.

How I RVS: pick a name from the playerlist I can say something silly about them, or just pick a random name. I find it amusing that you think me happening to choose you has any sort of ulterior motivation.

Firebringer has that sort of jokey personality.

And me, who modded a game called

PUN

Mafia, all about

PUN

s, and who is also known for making

PUN

s and the like isn't? Alright.

You don't get to match established scum motivation and then try to pidgeonhile posts to fit.

I find it amusing that you're describing exactly what you're doing; pigeonholing. You use the example that can paint me as scummy whilst ignoring one that doesn't allow you to paint me as scum - the RVS joke vote on you because "when aren't you scum"/"you're always scum". The fact that you don't even look at it tells me you aren't even trying to consider your thoughts on me - you just want me lynched because I'm an easy target.

You whine about selective meta, but you don't resemble anything close to an inquisitive nature.

"You whine about me doing X, but let me tell you something completely unrelated that you're not doing so you can just forget about my first point".

Even here, you aren't focused on solving the game but your own survival and to discredit me. That's the sole point of your vote.

Damn, you got me. I'm not trying to solve the game by reconsidering my vote on RC and putting it on you for perfectly good reasons, I'm obviously just trying to discredit you by pointing out how your logic is flawed.

Can we also talk about Titus' slight case of backpedalling? How earlier she acted as if my buddying was the biggest factor in me being scum, then not actually showing any buddying from me until after at least 3 or so players bugged her for it, and then when that's called out as not being buddied she acts as if my RVS vote was the biggest reason that I must be scum all along.

Why haven't you interacted with Dwelee regarding the Pistachion wagon at all? You don't care to sort either.

What is there to say? "Someone I don't really have a read on has a scumread on someone I don't really have a read on. I got no read from this." I comment on what I find important, because focusing on what's important massively reduces distracting rubbish like that would end up being. Someone thinks someone else is scum? Why should I care, I've found scum myself!

[Davsto]

@mod - V/LA until Sat - mock exams :c

[Davsto]

@mod - V/LA until Sat - mock exams :c

[Davsto]

^@Shiro

[Davsto]

I'm barely posting because during a week of fucking mock exams I simply don't have the energy to post in most games, particularly ones which I have little to no investment in as of yet.

Please stop using the fact that I do have IRL stuff going on as an excuse to pitifully scumread me.

[Davsto]

I'm really sorry, but after mocks and having very little sleep the past couple of days, I never got around to catching up on what I missed in this game. I'd like to make a big catchup post, but my next available time where I may be vaguely awake will be around three hours before the deadline, and at that point, it's honestly not worth it. Thus, I promise that I

will

start tomorrow with a big catchup page. No bullshit, no excuses.

[Davsto]

I'm really sorry, but after mocks and having very little sleep the past couple of days, I never got around to catching up on what I missed in this game. I'd like to make a big catchup post, but my next available time where I may be vaguely awake will be around three hours before the deadline, and at that point, it's honestly not worth it. Thus, I promise that I

will

start tomorrow with a big catchup page. No bullshit, no excuses.

I'm going to hold you to this.

The post was made with the intention of people doing so.

[Davsto]

Intention? Expectation? Not sure which of those is more appropriate.

[Davsto]

Spoiler: OKAY SO THIS TURNED OUT TO BE A LITTLE LARGER THAN I EXPECTED

This is a weak post. Everyone you 'wouldn't mind' lynching is a lurker. You take only the easiest routes on any of your reads and echo exactly what Titus has for reads for your 'will not lynch'. There's no independent thought here.

Just quoting to see if AJ pushes someone for being a lurker.

I like Dwlee for town I just think that he's wrong.

You think pistachi0n is town?

I am fairly certain one of pistachi0n/zimpf is scum

Walk me through the reasoning that

a) there's a confirmed scum between those two players and
b) that there's only one confirmed scum between those two players
c) that none of the above information points to any specific one of them, just the pair.

Good set of questions from RadiantCowbells here.

There is no reasoning.

Grib is basically the towniest motherfucker in this game/


Just a feeling. I mean you could argue that both of them COULD be scum but I wish to believe not two scum are hard lurking like that

Bad set of answers from Shiro here.

Dwlee's pistach tunnel (although is it really a tunnel if there are more than enough good reasons for it?) looks townie.

I'm willing to bet money this is multiball.

Uhh... why? Seems rather non-sequitur.

Wtf zymf..
you
. wtf

What the actual crap..
just to get it off of your back..?
the entire wagon that was on me has joined my wagon has moved to pistachio despite scum reading me.. wuuuuutttt.
Mario, it is multiball..

Another multiball spec-ing? This seems odd. Why are people first jumping to the conclusion of multiball explaining what's happening rather than, idk, them being wrong with their reads? Or a bad bus?

I'm sorry for being inactive, I shouldn't have joined this game :/
@Frogger: If you have a replacement ready, I don't mind being replaced.

Most of the active players seem to agree that we shouldn't lynch Dwlee. I don't really understand why, but...

6) Subtly associates Pistach with Zymf.

I don't mind lynching pistachion either. So just to get this off my back, I think we should lynch him.
VOTE: Pistachi0n

I don't know what to make of this.

Help

Wow, this is a really good way to "comment" on a post while literally saying jack shit.

You wouldn't lie to me.

So you're saying that if you were scum this game, right now, you would admit that you're scum and vote yourself?

Yes

ok.

I'm a sucker for ate.

VOTE: Aj

I- uh- what? RC looks like he's being silly RC here, which is all well and good, but it's still a weird conversation. If RC

is

scum, this basically means that Elyse isn't his partner, because this would be the weirdest way for scumbuddies to behave, by attracting attention to themselves using a silly reason to unvote over several posts.

What's your read on me?

I was scumreading you but upon reflection and some meta from our old games (good times btw) I'm not so sure of that read anymore. Gun to my head, you're town.

Wow, townreading him basically just after he decided you were town? What a realistic development that isn't even slightly convenient.

Let us look at our options..
either pistachio and zymf are scum together and zymf is bussing
Zymf is town and voting pistachio
Or zymf and the nut are part of different scum teams
What seems most likely?

I would happily argue that the first and second are easier conclusions to come to. This seems like a weird justification. Bleh.

Lining up lynches, etc.

Seriously his ISO is terrible. I'm not moving my vote.

Titus are you willing to 1v1 me tomorrow?

VOTE: AJ

I am 1v1ing Titus tomorrow

Intent to hammer.

I'm leaving my house in 45 min and will hammer if MM doesn't claim by then.

1v1ing Titus tomorrow.

Just putting that first quote by the other three. Take a look and spot the issue!

snip
Well, at a glance, it isn't impossible. None of them have voted together, except in the last votal, which. Makes me less inclined to lynch pistachi0n.

VCA pre flips? Really?

No single wagon toDay has had more than six votes, when the necessary needed to lynch is ten. I think this suggests a scumteam that's timid, overly-careful, new, or lurking.

Or a low charisma scumteam that cannot push a counterwagon to scum but is better at defending and wking.

Dave Elyse AJ.

This is certainly a change of opinion. She goes from saying that pre-flip VCA is bad to suddenly having a VCA which supports her hypothesis.

I don't think Dwlee is scum anymore. He's so adamant, every post of his is "LYNCH PISTACHI0N LYNCH PISTACHI0N" and he even argued with Titus about the right reason to vote me when Titus was willing to vote me anyway.

I'm scum-reading Shinobi. Half of the posts are about semantics, "I guess," or statements with no elaboration.

VOTE: Shinobi

This is a weeeird post. He just comes in, makes a non-sequitur comment, basically ignoring everything else going on, places a vote on a vanity wagon.

I don't think Dwlee is scum anymore. He's so adamant, every post of his is "LYNCH PISTACHI0N LYNCH PISTACHI0N" and he even argued with Titus about the right reason to vote me when Titus was willing to vote me anyway.

I'm scum-reading Shinobi. Half of the posts are about semantics, "I guess," or statements with no elaboration.

VOTE: Shinobi

What? Where?

Like in 1088 "I can be swayed, I guess"
964 statement with no elaboration
In posts like 357 and 521 he's disagreeing but not giving content/elaborating.

When questioned, he (almost 100 posts later) gives an amazing four posts out of Shinobi's 50 or so posts at this point that vaguely support his point I guess. This is kinda meh. Plus, the irony of "statement with no elaboration" considering that his last post was a statement with no elaboration.

Oh it's so fun to post and then immediately get called scum...

It's almost like it's the reason I have said little to nothing the whole game because I feel like opening my mouth means being scumread. It's discouraging really. Every third person is throwing out naked scum reads so it's not like I'm alone in this.

Blaming other people for his own lurking. Nasty.

YAY ONLY TWENTY PAGES TO GO FUCKING HELL

ψοολ ψοολ δριχχ υοθ δο τηατ

ςε νεεδ σομε φρεση οπινιονσ

I don't get what you're trying to say here, Shiro. It's all Greek to me.

Well that was interesting.

what was?

ψοολ ψοολ δριχχ υοθ δο τηατ

ςε νεεδ σομε φρεση οπινιονσ

I fxied it right the next post. Forgot my keyboard was on greek input

So mafia is all Greek to you. [/joke]

gdi

Oh by the way, Davesto has ignored this thread after the pressure on him abated.

This is scummy. After me having already justified that I was away for IRL reasons literally 42 posts ago, she seems to have forgotten this and decides to call it out as if it were scummy.

Aight my Heat vote isn't going anywhere.

VOTE: AJ

Buy your free opportunism here!

Dwlee, why were you blindly trusting Titus when you switched votes earlier?

Looks like someone saw something convenient to comment on that happened a while ago whilst still ignoring a large amount of things that are going on. Cool, cool.

It ain't a scum response to attack your ego, Titus. It's sad you think that, too because it prevents a lot of proper discussion.

It is a scum response to attack ego. Town argue with evidence. I am aware of the size of my own ego.

Attacking ego is a logical fallacy and the sole purpose of such is to discredit the poster and not address the truth of the argument.

While me arguing at you with evidence meant I was still scum for *reasons*, obviously.

vote:Mario

This shit is townie as hell, regardless of either AJ's alignment. Quitting an easy lynch to push a town wagon would make no sense from scum. If AJ is town, then he's a PR and scum supposedly just gave up the opportunity to be rid of a town PR. If AJ is scum, it's really fucking ballsy to change the wagon whilst being his scum partner, not to mention something that could easily screw him over later.

Basically, Nero is likely town, Grib is the towniest, and Titus and Elyse are the most likely to be scum.

I'm more inclined to lynch Titus because I don't trust in people lynching her once I'm dead.

VOTE: Titus

[Davsto]

@dave

Do you think Titus and I are scum together?

I think there's a good chance of both of you being scum, yes, from your individual behaviours.

Thinking about associatives (i.e. but they don't look like they're scum together!) before the flip leads to unnecessary doubt.

[Davsto]

I have a scumread on pistach as well. Apparently I'm scum because I don't explicitly state every single one of my reads I get from a big post. The post took a while to make, surprisingly enough, and pistach wasn't one I remembered that much because I was really fucking tired.

Oh, I'm not town, dave?

Also, what is this post? Because I'm not townreading him, I get a snarky comment and a dirty look?

[Davsto]

I have a scumread on pistach as well. Apparently I'm scum because I don't explicitly state every single one of my reads I get from a big post. The post took a while to make, surprisingly enough, and pistach wasn't one I remembered that much because I was really fucking tired.

Oh, I'm not town, dave?

Also, what is this post? Because I'm not townreading him, I get a snarky comment and a dirty look?

If you dont town read town you are scum.

the dirty look and snarcky comment are for added effect

^ he lists reasons I am town in his wall in the spoiler but doesnt conclude I am town ~~

IIRC there was that one post that bugged me a little, enough for it to stand out to me to quote it. I can't get a decent townread from you.

[Davsto]

Hmm.

Maybe it's minor, but I think that Titus has scumslipped.

Details to follow once I have a computer to work from.

[Davsto]

The thing about what I see as a potential scumslip (as I say, it's quite small so idk), I'd have ignored it if she did it once, but she's done it a lot.

Dave AJ Elyse is where I am at currently

Well they arent saying it so thy are scum. c'mon. *choochoo*

Now wouldn't be the time to say it.

Dave Elyse AJ. I want them.

Pistachio isn't a policy lynch.

To me, he is. Dave Elyse and Aj are scum lynches.

No single wagon toDay has had more than six votes, when the necessary needed to lynch is ten. I think this suggests a scumteam that's timid, overly-careful, new, or lurking.

Or a low charisma scumteam that cannot push a counterwagon to scum but is better at defending and wking.

Dave Elyse AJ.

Titus, if you are right about pistachio I will sheep you tomorrow (within reason ofc♥

You're only voting Dave AJ or Elyse if I die and they aren't cleared.

Neither of those are smart moves. The only reason Pig is wagoned is because not AJ/Dave/Elyse

Dave Elyse Espy sounds good as Le scums

Does anyone else see it?
For some reason, whenever she looks for a potential scumteam, she (almost, see below) always lists three players. Me AJ Elyse. Me Elyse Espy. Her first post she said "so far I have", but by the last few, it looks like she thinks that's the entire scumteam.

My question is, why is she looking for a 3-player scumteam in an 18-player game? In my experience, they almost always have 4 scum. Something's telling me Titus knows something.

Only problem is the below post, which is an exception, as it's the only time she lists four players.

Hey Vig, Mario is still lurking scum.

Just reminding you.

I want the vig to shoot Davesto who gave nothing protown under pressure and has avoided this thread since his wagon dissipated.

Davesto AJ Elyse MM4?

I know it's quite small and is likely confbias, but it just bugged me a lot after I thought about it and realised it was a pattern.

[Davsto]

Seriously, (with the exception of Firebringer who is wrong but justified), does anyone on my wagon have a decent reason that isn't Titus' excuse for a reason?

Apparently I'm "acting similar to her as scum have done in the past".

What this means, considering what she's actually shown, is that "I joke RVSed her using her reputation for drawing scum as a joke". She cited a time scum did it, I cited a time town did it, yet she still acts like it's scummy?

And, like, even if there's more, it's meta, which is shaky at times anyway, but she's not even using my meta. She's using

other people's metas

to read me. I feel like there isn't any need to say why this is awful.

[Davsto]

You also feel zero need to scumhunt.

I already found scum, you.

Fact is, Firebringer context was obvious joke. Yours wasn't.

No... mine was pretty obviously a joke, being RVS and all, also for the irony of me "using" gambler's fallacy which I hate. The fact that you don't see it as an "obvious joke" is your problem, not mine. I should be insulted that you think that wasn't a joke and that I'd actually use that seriously to scumhunt.

Now you can whine about how I caught you or you can try to pretend to scumhunt. You cannot do both.

I have successfully done both throughout the game. Your argument fails on so many levels all the time, it's actually hilarious.

[Davsto]

Because I'm not scum.

Town.

And is there a reason I should be lynched other than you not wanting to be lynched? Anyone that should be lynched because you think they're scum?

[Davsto]

Characterizing me as whining isn't really what I'm doing. I'm expressing frustration that I'm an easy mislynch. I am fairly sure story's is town and she thinks Dave is scum so I am willing to go with that. I was ISOing Heat yesterday cuz something seemed off but nothing jumped off the page as "I'm scummy!"

Confusion.

You're willing to go with someone who you think is town (story's? Who's that?) but not someone you know is town (Elyse)? Why's that? Do you have any reads of your own?

[Davsto]

Shiro I don't have a good handle on.

Why bring this up? You didn't mention any of your other null reads in this post, why bring up Shiro?

[Davsto]

1. I am townreading you
2. You are good at scumhunting

What previous experience do you have with playing with Titus?

[Davsto]

1. I am townreading you
2. You are good at scumhunting

What previous experience do you have with playing with Titus?

I seem them everywhere.

Elaborate.

[Davsto]

Blargh.

I was just a bit confused, as to how you decided Titus was good at scumhunting enough to sheep when her last two pushes were Elyse (now conftown) and AN (claimed nonspecific PR, probtown).

[Davsto]

(That was where it was leading)

[Davsto]

Dwlee, why are you focusing on mine and Titus' wagons, while ignoring pignash's wagon, which is currently the largest?

Why say the Titus wagon is "all sketch" when there is literally a confirmed town on it?

Why are Drixx and Titus town?

That concludes question time thanks and goodnight

[Davsto]

Also, Dwlee, do you actually have a reason why I'm scum?

[Davsto]

So I am scumhunting really well

Your three biggest (also basically only pushes) have been:

Elyse (conftown)
AJ (almost certainly town last time I checked)
Me (town)


Basically, saying you are scumhunting really well is blatant lies.

[Davsto]

L2 I guess. nearly the time for hard claim.

Umm

It's L-1

Your vote made it L-1

[Davsto]

I'm really happy I didn't start making a big daystart post because someone got a guilty on me, dammit.

Titus is still scum, by the way.

[Davsto]

Now I'll just think about other things.

My New Years Resolution this year will be to annoy less grammar pedants.

[Davsto]

I can't wait to see everyone go insane tomorrow after my flip

And I'll just be chilling in the dead thread~

[Davsto]

I'll miss you too, Fire. I don't think we're actually alive in any games together at the moment.

Probably for the first time since our first game together.

It's... sad.

[Davsto]

Gg town

[Davsto]

putting a quote from an ongoing game into your signature counts as talking about ongoing games.

Aye

This is the more important thing really, so arguing the semantics of the other part is kinda pointless

[Davsto]

I repeat it wasn't a claim about this game

The quote was from this game. Hence, it breaks the site rule about not talking about ongoing games etc etc.

You're lucky all you got was a force replacement, if you ask me.

Also, your attack on Plotinus is entirely unwarranted. Please stop.

You're a nice person, but things have overwhelmed you - I'd recommend staying away and taking a little break. Please?

[Davsto]

FA, why wasn't I shot?

Probably because you barely paid any attention to their scumteam - you were focused on either town or my scumteam up until your death.

[Davsto]

@Dave *hugs*

ew human contact

*run away*

[Davsto]

Also, this game has made basically no difference to my attitude of drawing scum.

I still hate it.

[Davsto]

WTF Dave. I didn't lurk or do fuck all. Still think the only reason that I was really suspected is 'cause Titus is OMGUSy and aleast both of Drixx+Fire were defending their friend.

I know man, I just despise drawing scum and it makes me bitter

Sorry