MINI 504- PEGBAM...GAME OVER!

[Karen]

/confirm

[Karen]

first post.

hey mod, was Mike Jones scum or townie?

Mod Edit: Mike Jones was an NPC so it doesn't matter.

[Karen]

OMG, PEGBAM is underway!!!!!! It's so exciting.

With that said,

Vote: Jdodge

Come on guys, lets go lynch the obvious scum that is Jdodge.

lol!

i like your thinking, but how exactly is he "obvious scum"???

[Karen]

vote: karen.

if only this were a mini game, where this would be the hammer on myself...

[Karen]

I'll be gone for most of the weekend.

YES! the classic ("i've got 4 votes on me") afk routine!

[Karen]

I'm going to be incredibly busy this weekend, but I should be able to post a few times at least.

YES! the classic ("i don't have any votes on me yet, so i'll lurk through this day") afk routine!

[Karen]

post #46:

Cause Karen is obv scum, but not as obv as jdodge scum. Which reminds me, why has jdodge not been lynched yet?

post #79:

If jdodge was not obviously scum then I would be so voting for originality right now. He reeks of scum, just not as much as jdodge.

post #81:

I have decided pregame to push a lynch on jdodge. Unless someone really jumps out as scum to me, then I'm going to stick with my vote on jdodge. That, and he is so obviously scum.

post #132:

Omg yaus, the bandwagon has started. Come on guys, only like 5 more votes needed.

a pregame decision to push a lynch, and still ranting about it on the 6th page, why is this guy still alive and wasting the town's time?

unvote.

vote: scotmany12.

[Karen]

Oman, based on your logic you need to now hop onto jDodge with your vote. He cast a third vote on me, for no stated reason.

chronx, do you seriously think jdodge would vote against oman, or vice versa?

http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... eam_Asshat

based on the presence of two of them in the game and two of them as co-mods, it wouldn't surprise me if this setup were grotesquely rigged.

Mod Edit: ALL ROLES WERE RANDOMLY CHOSEN VIA TI-83 PLUS CALCULATOR, WHILE I WAS BORED IN MATH CLASS.

[Karen]

Deadline: THURSDAY September 28th 10 PM Central

thursday is the 27th, and the 28th is a friday...

is this "THURSDAY September 27th," or "friday SEPTEMBER 28th?"

[Karen]

Sigh, is originality still breathing? Whats wrong with this game?

Tonight's Forecast: Dark. With originality lynch approaching.

how come you NK'd him, were you so upset you couldn't lynch him during the day?

[Karen]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Scot is right... I think

Vote: Panzer

[/quote]
fairly neutral from Scope, not too productive, nor too counter-productive.
[quote="Oman"]Scope is wagoning...again.[/quote]
BUT, Scope turns out to be helpful here, since...
[quote="Oman"]

unvote vote panzer

[/quote]
... it causes Oman to give a huge hypocritical scumtell.

[Karen]

Also, wouldn't the logical investigation, panzer, be originality? I mean, you were voting for him at the end of day 1. And no, I am not treating you like a treated jdodge. Jdodge was a joke, you are not. I got a guilty on you panzer, and my investigation actually makes sense.

if this is the "logical investigation," why did scotmany12 (cop claim) NOT investigate originality?

on the other hand, if scotmany12 is scum, and assumed the cop would make the "logical investigation," he would NK originality, and render the cop's nightmove useless.

through his own logic, he has trapped himself, giving a huge scumtell, telling us as to why originality is dead. thus, his counter-claim is trying to distract us from the faulty logic (from above, you are calling it illogical) of how he "investigated" panzer.

panzer's "investigation" of poppin was not necessarily the best choice, but at least he has plausible reasoning (e.g. lurking) for it.

vote: scotmany12.

[Karen]

FTR: I don't think mafia killed orig, he had too many votes on him to be logical.

that's a possibility.

EXCEPT THIS IS A GAME OF MAFIA.

no wait... maybe he committed suicide, and mafia didn't send in a night choice. maybe they've never played before, and didn't know they could NK, in which case orig killed himself... but wait...

THIS IS A GAME OF MAFIA.

Back.

Panzer's logical investigation would be for originality. He was voting for him at the end of day 1, and thus, he would most likely be the person panzer thought to be most scummy.

wrong. A cop should investigate who he/she cannot read. I agree it was dumb of panzer to throw his investigation away like that on a lurker, who wouldn't do any damage at this point if they WERE scum.

Vote Karen

She's tried to pin orig's death on two people now, me and panzer.

let's see here:
1) i'm voting against scotmany12.
2) i defended panzer.

where did i try and "pin orig's death on two people"? here, i have to flat out question your intelligence. maybe your sanity. maybe you posted this while you thought you were on a World of Warcraft chat page.

but wait... THIS IS A GAME OF MAFIA.

i seriously think you should request a replacement for yourself. or, better idea, just "suicide" like originality. i beg of you. please... do this for the town.

thank you.

love,
karen

[Karen]

I'm not so sure I want to keep both cops around, all of a sudden.

vote: panzerjagger

Unvote, vote: d3sisted

I concur with JDodge that d3sisted is hailing from another planet. I would've expected something like this to come from Oman, but this pretty much rivals for sheer ridonkulousness.

unfortuately, so much so, that any scum above say, 8 years of age wouldn't make such a mistake. i feel it clearly is a case of complete n00bness.

[Karen]

Guys, if they both investigate the same target we still don't know which is town and which is scum. Double investigate only works if they're both cops.

It's posts like these that make my think "why the hell do I even bother".

IT. MIGHT. PROVE. SOMETHING. YOU. MORON.

i whole-heartedly agree. sometimes i read this thread, just to see what Oman wrote. generally i laugh out loud and wonder if it's people like him that destroy our faith in:
1) user-edit sources like wikipedia
2) general online content
3) hopes of having a Mafia game where there aren't complete idiots.

[Karen]

@jdodge: another thing that makes me lol, isn't Oman a proud member of Team Asshat?

what are the "team" dynamics like? do you have guys that give you money just to be included in the Team wiki?

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Team_Asshat

[Karen]

I've given up lynching Scot in favor of accepting the 2 cop idea.

there is definitely the possibility of a 2 cop scenario. however, since Scot has sworn on his life that you are scum, either you ARE scum, OR Scot is scum. the two are clearly exclusive.

so, in the sense that Scot is not "giving up" on you, but you are giving up on him, you are probably scum.

this is obvious, since an honest cop would NEVER let up from a false claim.
also, in virtually all of our setups with multiple cop scenarios, the cops are informed of their counter-parts, ergo you wouldn't try and kill the other cop.

this being noted, assuming Scot is the cop, Erg0 is 115% correct in that Scot is quite possibly the most novice cop i have ever seen.

Desisted and Oman are most likely to be scum. Seems to be pushing scot and giving completely bullshit reasons to do so.

by the above reasoning of Panzer being scum, this is either a straight up bus, or very helpful in letting us know these two are vanilla.

since both of them are currently on the Panzer bandwagon, i'm personally going to assume it is likely there is one bus and one vanilla. i would suggest that our cop(s) (assuming one out of 50 of them live through tonight) check one of them out this evening.

[Karen]

[quote="Flameaxe"]

THE FINAL DAY 1 VOTE COUNT!

Sammich[4]originality, Morbuzaan, distad, JDodge.

originality[4]ALSleet, Sammich, KaleiÐoscøpe, Panzer.
Scotmany[2]Karen.
Panzer[1]Scotmany12.
Morbuzaan[1]poppinpuffin.

Not Voting[0]

[/quote]

with the deadline approaching, i think there are still 5 votes on Panzer, meaning we'll get an extension.

i've reposted this from D1, in since people tend to forget about it on subsequent days.

I would rather switch my vote to Desisted, since i find JDoge scummy and don't want to follow his bandwagoning tactics. I reach this opinion, since JDodge has changed votes several times and from D1 posts, had some type of row with Sammich D1, and (following various Mafia "laws") we should really look at:

Sammich[4]originality, Morbuzaan, distad, JDodge.

more closely.

[Karen]

How come I do not know about these "laws"?

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... r%27s_Laws

Karen, we have to vote for the deadline extension. Just because someone is at five votes does not mean that we get an extension.

very true, it all depends on the mod's interpretation. for instance, in my games, i just auto-extend (if i allow extensions), pending participation, voting, etc.

[Karen]

10 players. one possible setup:
2 mafia
1 SK/vig
1 cop
1 doc
5 vanilla.

assuming this setup, we currently might have:
1 mafia
1 SK/vig
1 cop
1 doc
3 vanilla.

which, is not necessarily a lylo situation, given 1) the doctor could make a successful save, and/or 2) the SK/vig makes the wrong/right kill.

BUT, an incorrect lynch would setup a lylo nightphase, pending either 1) or 2).

so, assuming that
a) Scotmany12 is the cop;
b) we believe his investigation of Erg0;
c) my above guess at the setup is accurate,
d) we have an SK and not a vig (a vig wouldn't be

that

stupid, and there'd be huge balancing problems w/o an SK),

then either Oman or I is scum.

in our situation, it takes 4 votes to lynch, and since there are already 2 votes on me, any vote combo of the scum & vig would kill me, and force an unfriendly nightphase.

the fact that this hasn't happened yet, means that either:
i) one of the two remaning scum has already cast his vote,
ii) i am one of the remaining scum.

in scenario i), if we use my above reasoning of a) and b), then it cannot be Erg0, and must only be Oman.

i challenge the rest of you to read over all of both of our posts.

in my defense, i especially like Oman's posts where it is fairly obvious he is a complete idiot. although this in itself is not a scum tell, i feel his more lucid posts of today are.

if anything i have said is unclear, please do not hesitate to ask for clarification.

[Karen]

here is an interesting exchange from the start of D2:
post 301:
[quote="Karen"]

... post 301 (too long to quote, the basic gist is i question Scotmany12's investigation)...

[/quote]
post 302:
[quote="Panzerjager"]That is good posting.[/quote]
post 303:
[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Well, this is interesting. This needs some thought.

Unvote

[/quote]
post 304:
[quote="Oman"]FTR: I don't think mafia killed orig, he had too many votes on him to be logical.[/quote]

again, in 301, i'm questioning Scotmany12's choice of investigation.
in 302, in retrospect, it's obvious Panzerjager would support a counter to Scotmany12.
in 303, we again see KaleiÐoscøpe's constant bandwagoning and switching of votes (as i'm sure you've noticed through your re-reads, he even admits it himself in post 249/250).
in 304, we see Oman's breadcrumbing of SK? (lol, wtf?!?!?!)

obviously KaleiÐoscøpe is lurking, except for his bandwagoning and switching of votes (never posts anything of use/substance).

given these thoughts, and my thoughts above from post 450, i imagine Oman to be the SK (from his posts, i hope you agree that he is stupid enough to actually breadcrumb SK (lol, wtf!?!?!)), and
KaleiÐoscøpe to be the (hopefully) remaining mafia.
of course, from post 450, it's possible i could be the mafia, but i hope my reasoning has made it clear that i am helping the town, as opposed to lurking (not necessarily a scumtell) or breadcrumbing SK (lol, wtf!?!?!?!).

either way, i think everyone has enough information to make an informed decision, and i have peace of mind that i have done my best, whatever happens. good luck.

[Karen]

i apologize for the number of posts, but i hope you feel them to be helpful. on a personal note, i have to look over so many games, i tend to do only 1 re-read during critical votes, so this is where i let my thoughts spill forth.

[quote="JDodge"]BOTH "COPS" SHOULD INVESTIGATE OMAN[/quote]
i'm curious as to why this did not happen.

Panzerjager knew he was going to be lynched, and thus cleared poppinpuffin/Erg0. in all situations, except the case where mafia are extraordinarily experienced (which none you are), a false cop will claim a vanilla to be town. in effect, this:
I) builds trust from that particular vanilla,
II) won't be fingering a fellow scum.

unless

II) he is extremely experienced/ballsy, and attempts to vindicate scum, hoping the cop is a weak player and

ACTUALLY INVESTIGATES WHO THE FALSE COP CLAIMED TO CLEAR.

so, my point is, Oman should have been investigated last nite, since poppinpuffin/Erg0 was basically cleared, and it would've won us the game, since the whole Oman or I being scum issue (from post 45) would've been cleared up.

two things should follow from here:
x) we all recognize Scotmany12 as being a poor cop,
y) another cop comes forward (i hope,

sincerely hope

that either Oman or KaleiÐoscøpe step up).

[Karen]

distad:

Panzer listed him as a lynch candidate yesterday. distad was pretty late onto the Panzer wagon, but he was missing for most of it so that's kind of null. Leaning towards town for him.

in case you might be mislead by Erg0's post, you should find that distad was not "pretty late onto the Panzer wagon," but was actually the second vote (out of an eventual five). so, first off, i don't know in what culture a second vote is "late" or where two votes is a "wagon."

Oman:

Probably not scum, unless ChronX took distancing to the ultimate extreme by replacing out because of an argument with his buddy. The fact that Karen and ChronX both attacked Oman for "wagoning" helps his cause too.

"wagoning" is always a misunderstood issue. i'd say it's about as misunderstood as lurking. the fact that Oman was "wagoning" is not a scum tell, and the accusation that someone is "wagoning" is just that, an accusation.

the game progress with accusations, and defenses against accusations. what Erg0 is doing here is "clearing" someone.

generally, you cannot "clear" someone unless you have special information (e.g. cop), or there exists some really good information/tells. unfortunately, "wagoning," or in this ridiculous case, "being accused of wagoning," is obviously not good enough information for "clearing" someone.

additionally, from my above posts, you will see that i don't engage in trying to clear people or worse yet,

trying to clear people based on my assumption.

in Erg0's post, you will see that he tries to "clear" Oman off the assumption that i am mafia.

that would be the equivalent of me saying in post 450 that, "how do you know that i am not mafia? well, Karen is cleared because Oman is mafia."

as if that doesn't sound like bad logic, what about, "Karen is clear because Oman said accused her of wagoning." wtf?!?!? "oh, and that makes Oman mafia." roflcoptor.

this is not a case of circular logic, but a case of reaching a conclusion based on an unfounded assumption. you cannot know whether Oman is mafia/vanilla or i am mafia/vanilla, since we have not been investigated (i'm still stunned at the choice of investigation of poppinpuff/Erg0).

[Karen]

as if that doesn't sound like bad logic, what about, "Karen is clear because Oman said accused her of wagoning." wtf?!?!? "oh, and that makes Oman mafia." roflcoptor.

ebwop:

should

read:
as if that doesn't sound like bad logic, what about, "Karen is clear because Oman accused her of wagoning." wtf?!?!? "oh, and that makes Oman mafia." roflcoptor.

[Karen]

without actually proving your initial assumption that we have two mafia

.

so, i guess you're expecting something along the lines of the mod deciding to post and tell us the exact setup? are you, like Oman, a complete idiot? the purpose of open-setups is to add flavor/intrigue to games. the point is not to have a setup "proved" one way of the other.

What makes you so sure we're not in LyLo with three mafia?

let's see... start with 10... let's pretend there

are

three mafia. with 2 NightKiliin' roles, that gives us:
70% chance mislynch on D1,
2 dead pro-town on N1,
leaves us with 7 left, three mafia, one SK/vig, and three pro-town.

this situation is of course, not a lock for the scum to win, but as you can see, fairly close.

so, with a three mafia setup, there is 70% they basically have won by N1.

obviously, no setup this bad would ever slip by.

I smell a big fat rat.

what does this game have to do with your mother? why bring her up at all? please keep your posts on topic.

[Karen]

Well you just said that ergo was cleared due to panzer claiming an innocent on him.

i think, in retrospect of Panzer being scum, we can all agree that this is likely, if you don't understand the logic, please check out post #452. if you still don't understand, just ask, and i will break it down line by line.

At the end of the day yesterday, you said you were leaning to panzer being scum over me, yet you keep your vote on me. Explain this.

since i never said that i thought panzer was scum, i'm going to say you're an even worse player than i first imagined.

first, you attribute a false statement to me (bit of advice: in the future, use quotes, so you don't look like a fool).
second, since i never made such a statement, you must feel as if you can read my mind, or have some intuition, the latter of which is highly important in mafia. you show very poor intuition.

poor intuition combined with the inability to understand simple logic (e.g. not being able to comprehend post #452) are the sings of a weak player.

weak players makes weak scum, weak townies, and

weak cops.

[Karen]

we started with 12 players, not 10?

that is correct, i was wrong.

Acting like an ass doesn't make you any more convincing, or any less wrong.

that is correct. however, on the other hand, your making ridiculous/unfounded assumptions (see post #453)

does

make you look like an idiot...

[Karen]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Well, I'm done with my reread and I would appreciate it if Karen would claim.[/quote]
i'm not against this, but i feel this approach should hold off until there's a large consensus or L-1...

[Karen]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Well, let's get to either of that then.

Vote: Karen

[/quote]
way to pick the person that has made a solid case against you (see post #303 - bandwagoning/lurking/etc), especially when you have no case against me, except a 50/50 "either."

pretty weak cause to cast a L-1, only reinforces what i've already brought to light.

vote: KaleiÐoscøpe

[Karen]

earlier, i had made my mind to claim if i hit L-1, but i didn't log on until now (when i was at L-1 earlier, but Erg0 unvoted).

i think a claim would only help us in the most extreme circumstances, and i prefer to have scum have the minimal information possible.

imho, a claim by my by this point, after all i've said, wouldn't serve to help the town, and only give scum more certainty. at least this way, they still have hard decisions to make at night.

i still would like to re-emphasize the case against KaleiÐoscøpe, especially since his play

this entire game

has been most questionable.

[Karen]

Btw, distad voted Panzer in post 279. The conveniently placed votecount in 278 reveals that he was the fifth on that wagon, not the second as you stated in 453.

you are right Erg0,

except that was the FIRST Panzer bandwagon.

refer to post #340 for the one that actually killed him, where distad was 2nd...

[Karen]

my last words:

again, i think the town has more than enough information to win this game, and i wish you all the best of luck. this is the last game this particular alt is involved in, and i'd just like to say how much of a pleasure it has been.

to assist the town in completing with a solid win:

i think i am still right about Oman being SK/vig, leaning more towards SK, obviously due to his foul claim of miller+vig role.

i think i had a great call out on him that just started from gut instinct, then searched up the thread and found some solid evidence against him.

HoS: KaleiÐoscøpe

KaleiÐoscøpe is still heavily scum for reasons mentioned (post #303, post #493).

obviously with the L-1, from yesterday's play, now asking for a claim, distad is the doctor. here, i reveal this information, since he'd be a good candidate for a NK anyway, and in case we have a vig and not an SK, the vig will know to refrain from bad play. also, now the scum have to really decide whether to believe me or not, and this info might actually protect someone... =]

i encourage all of you to be continue partaking in this beautiful site, and also encourage all of you to join a Newbie game sometime, and offer insights and encouragement to capture and hopefully hold the attention of newcomers who too often leave after one or two frustrating games!

i always get emotional when leaving a game, i feel like i'm somehow quitting, but i think i've poured some good thought into this particular game (how unusual is that?!?!?).

again, the best information results not from the play of the current day, but always from the plays of the previous day.

btw, i role-claim

Mafia.

*wink wink*

vote: karen.

see ya'll on the flip side.

love,
karen

[Karen]

for further reading that i find most entertaining, plz meta karen.