Mafia 64: The New "C9" - Game over!


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Post Post #2350 (ISO) » Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:51 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

MrBuddyLee wrote:
Yosarian2 wrote:Got to say, I'm amused by you taking responsibiltiy for "discoraging lynching Guardian", when you weren't even around when we found out that Guardian was lying about being the doctor. Like, you really don't think that that little fact MIGHT have changed your mind about him if you'd been around when it happened? Sheesh.
Yeah, it's nearly as amusing as the fact that I was in the middle of the Nevada desert with no Internet when HackerHuck got chainsawed
When, exactally, did you get back?
but we won't harp on that cause it'd make this game a lot less fun. Have you met your snarky quotient yet today, Yos, and are you finally ready to start hunting scum?
Heh...if my "snarky quota" for today is as high as yours, I apparently still have a ways to go.

And in any case, basically every one of my posts today has been an attempt to figure out who might and might not be scum.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Post Post #2351 (ISO) » Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:41 am

Post by MrBuddyLee »

Yosarian2 wrote:When, exactally, did you get back?
Left Burning Man on Tuesday 9/4 noon, trailer jackknifed just short of Winnemucca 6pm, hung out at Red Lion bar and scored free drinks from the 6'4" volleyball player bartender 1am, learned she was a lesbian 2am :(, drove home 1pm Wednesday, got home midnight, logged in.

I only post that so I'm not avoiding your direct question. Obviously there are ways I still could have swung a nightkill were I SK.
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Post Post #2352 (ISO) » Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:24 am

Post by Kinetic »

Yosarian2 wrote:
Kinetic wrote:I'll tell you the truth, I really don't like certain "attitudes" and "points" that Jack has presented...

First he things that the mafia will "obviously" kill MBL. He's so sure he doesn't even put down any reasoning.

However, in my opinion, the Mafia have a lot more to worry about from Glork than MBL at this point. Glork can really only find one of their goons. The SK, for all he cares, might not even worry about Glork. He can't hurt him.

...

To tell you the honest truth, MBL has more to worry about if he's mafia about being NKed by the SK then if he's the SK. I see Glork as higher priority in the mafia's eyes. While if MBL is alive tonight that means I've been most likely lynched. We go into day 5 with 4-5 townies, 1-2 mafia, and the SK. But basically, it all boils down to if the SK hits MBL and he's Mafia or not. If I'm lynched, and MBL isn't mafia, we're looking at 4 townies, 2 mafia, and 1 SK. If he is, we're at a much more manageable 5 townies, 1 mafia, 1 SK. Also, depending on which mafia MBL is, we could possibly eliminate up to 3 people from the last mafia pool.

So, all-in-all, IF MBL is the SK, he doesn't need to worry about NKs right now. Mafia are most likely not going to target him. If he is Mafia, he does.

So Jack, if you TRULY believe that MBL is SK and you are not mafia, then by this logic MBL IS the lynch for today.
Man, this post bugs me. Does it feel to anyone else here that Kinetic might be some kind of scum (perhaps SK) trying to direct the other scumgroup in order to avoid having both groups kill the same person?

Him saying "Mafia should kill the cop, SK should not kill the cop" is just incredibly anti-town, and smells of possible in-thread communication to me.
fos:Kinetic
Get over yourself. That was a direct rebuttal to Jack because he said there was "no way" MBL was going to live through the night if he was SK.

My point was to make it apparent that was not "clearly" the case.
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Post Post #2353 (ISO) » Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:13 pm

Post by Yosarian2 »

Kinetic wrote: Get over yourself. That was a direct rebuttal to Jack because he said there was "no way" MBL was going to live through the night if he was SK.

My point was to make it apparent that was not "clearly" the case.
Perhaps, that's one possible explination for your post, but...it feels like you went into way more detail then is needed for that kind of thing. The thing is, I've seen that kind of post before, when different scum groups felt the need to communicate in-thread. Heck, I've made that kind of post before, as scum in hospital mafia. The fact is, both scum groups need Glork dead, because he's the closest thing to a confirmed good guy there is at this point, but you just jumped in and signaled "mafia-kill Glork. SK-kill someone else" and thus avoided the chance of them both targeting him and wasting their kills, or both assuming the other would target him and thus accidently letting him live. I've seen both things happen in different games with a late-game cop in this kind of 2 scumgroup situation, and you just prevented them both. So, yeah, in my mind, the chances of you being scum of either type went up with that post.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Post Post #2354 (ISO) » Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:35 pm

Post by Shteven »

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:"Overdefense?"
Weak.

@MBL A few of the one liner posts could have been consolidated, though ;)
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Post Post #2355 (ISO) » Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:40 pm

Post by Shteven »

In a wonderful display of hypocrisy, I will now double post...anyways...

MBL's tone has really changed as of late. Maybe it's just the wall of text, but he sounds much more serious and determined. I have yet to figure out if this has any real bearing on his alignment, but it certainly makes him -seem- more townish, because that's my play style and I can identify with it.

I remain quite confused by the massive posting even on this day alone, though. I wouldn't mind some cliff notes...
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Post Post #2356 (ISO) » Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:30 pm

Post by Kinetic »

If we're requesting cliff notes, could I have a cliff notes version of Day 1?
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Post Post #2357 (ISO) » Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:33 am

Post by BillyTwilight »

Good grief. After weeks of slow posting you guys put up 4+ pages on the day and a half that I am out of town. I'll read and get up a post sometime this afternoon.
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Post Post #2358 (ISO) » Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:16 am

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MrBuddyLee wrote:...

I have never been given the role of SK as far as I can recall. Ask yourself if, given the chance to be an SK for the first time, you would choose to play it this high profile from the outset, essentially daring the mafia to NK you every night. Ask yourself why the mafia hasn't killed me by now if they really think my D1/D2 behavior was indicative of a true SK. Ask yourself if any SK in history has survived a 25-person game by utilizing such an in-your-face strategy.
MBL, you drew SK in Clue Mafia 1. I had a quick read of your posts in that game, and you mentioned a possible SK not once. I don't know if I can get a real meta from this game though, mainly because it was a closed setup. Since we didn't know there was a SK in the game, mentioning it would have been even more suicidal than here. You lurked completely through the first day of that game, and tried an all out attack on me on day 2. You were only lynched because of a guilty investigation on you by TCS. When the attack came up against you, you were extremely defensive and kind of insulting the rest of the players for having the audacity to be looking at you... but I kind of feel that this is something you'd do regardless of alignment against a wagon forming on you.

As of right now I really think MBL is town. I don't buy him being scum at all, and the case against him as SK comes down to him mentioning the SK a lot, the SK targeting players that had some kind of connection to him, and Glork's meta-game. I simply don't believe that MBL would expect to survive as a SK through the LyLO situation that a SK has to get through in order to win by drawing such a circumstantial case against himself as the SK. The only problem is if we get into a LyLO situation, then MBL almost has to be lynched, unless there is some concrete evidence against another player. I'd prefer not to see that.

MBL, would you be apposed to your lynch tomorrow if we manage to lynch teamscum today, to avoid any shenanigans in LyLO?

I'll have more with regards to Glork and some of the other players later; I have to prepare a PChem lecture now.
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Post Post #2359 (ISO) » Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:29 am

Post by MrBuddyLee »

Of course I'm against my lynch tomorrow or any day... I'm not scum of any flavor. Let's hit scum and then worry about tomorrow.

Billy, do you think there's a significant chance that Glork's the SK?
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Post Post #2360 (ISO) » Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:39 am

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I think there is a slight chance, not significant. If he IS the SK, then he probably made the only play appropriate to save himself, knowing that more than likely he had already been targeted by scum. But I don't see a lot in his play that makes me think SK from before his claim... I was actually pretty convinced there for a while that he was teamscum.

Your answer to my question is telling. It wasn't the one I hoped to see. I don't think we can afford to have you around in LyLO, MBL. You've claimed that you don't have a read on who the SK might be, but you better get one, and for your sake it better be right. If we get into LyLO then we'd almost be forced to lynch you... I know I'd rather be burned by someone who set you up and took advantage on some silly mistakes you made in the first two days by talking about the SK too much than be burned by MBL-SK who basically broadcasted his role from early in the game to use it as a WIFOM defense in the endgame. I think it'd be much better not to have that complication in the endgame, and I think if you are town you'd feel the same way.
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Post Post #2361 (ISO) » Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:50 am

Post by MrBuddyLee »

I understand your opinion, and I also believe that you need to get on the record with regards to a lot more people. We're a long way from lynch or lose, so let's hear your associations and complete list of suspicions.
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Post Post #2362 (ISO) » Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:09 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

MrBuddyLee wrote:Billy, do you think there's a significant chance that Glork's the SK?
I realize this was adressed to Billy, but as he's already answered it, I personally don't. Yes, early in the game I thought Glork was acting kind of wierd, but him being cop explains a lot of that; for example, I thought it was kind of strange the way he defended InHim during day 2, when I couldn't see any reason to think InHim was likely to be town (and in fact, I still think his replacement is a reasonable Godfather suspect), but that makes perfect sense with Glork getting an innocent on him earlier. A lot of times, it really feels like me and Glork are kind of on the same wavelength, feeling the same way about the same people, and it's bugged me for a while that that hasn't been happening this game, but the whole Cop thing explains that perfectly.

Whereas I can't see a SK Glork doing what Glork did day 2, which was sticking his neck out to defend inHim while attacking Shteven at the same time, when they were both acting in similar ways; at the time, that made me suspect Glork a bit of possibly being Mafia, but a SK, especally one already getting some negitive attention from some quarters, would have no reason to act like that; too risky, too loud, too high profile. It fits perfectly with Glork being a cop who got an innocent on inHim though.
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Post Post #2363 (ISO) » Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:15 am

Post by BillyTwilight »

MrBuddyLee wrote:I understand your opinion, and I also believe that you need to get on the record with regards to a lot more people. We're a long way from lynch or lose, so let's hear your associations and complete list of suspicions.
Deflecting?

Sure, I like lists. Be warned; most of this is based off recent interactions; I don't feel like rereading the entire thread for each player left:


1. Shteven
: His arguments with Glork color my perspective of him, but right now I am feeling townie. I'd like to hear more from him in regards to Kinetic and MBL. I don't particularly like his post #2247; it's too noncommittal and I don't like noncommittal at this stage of the game. Why do you think Kinetic is scummy but not worth "building" a case against? If you find someone scummy you need to be probing for more information from them. I get the tone from his posts that he wants to go after TCS but is afraid to actually step up, make the case, and vote accordingly.

2. MrBuddyLee (MBL)
: I think you're more likely town than SK, and not likely scum at all. Sometimes I get the feeling that you lurk in bigger games until the later stages then come out full-firing, but I haven't played with you enough to know for sure. I do however think that you could be a serious distraction/problem to deal with in the endgame if we don't peg the SK, and soon.

5. The Central Scrutinizer (TCS)
: I'd like clarification on his post about the wagon on Kinetic looking opportunistic. With the exception of maybe MBL, no one else on the wagon or thinking that Kinetic looks scummy was in serious trouble of a lynch today. Couple that with the fact that you think Kinetic looks scummy as well bothers me. Because it was Glork you agreed with (with whom you have made it general policy to disagree with in this game so far) makes me wonder even more. I think TCS might be a good candidate for SK; he's tried to play as low profile as possible, and jumping in with Glork here might be to try and bolster the "MBL is SK" feeling floating around. If MBL is lynched and Glork dies tonight, TCS would probably feel pretty good about his chances as SK, especially since he could fairly easily resurrect a wagon against Kinetic later in the game.

6. Coron 6. inHimshallIbe 6. AlyG
: Not enough relevant, recent info for me to get a read on. I don't like his post #1950
at all
, especially considering he flaked shortly thereafter. He also was adamant about wanting Guardian killed after the Doc claim, which I thought was either really bad play or scummy play; he had to backpedal on that since Guardian effectively hammered Sarc. I think inHim is a more than average chance of being the gf, but there is not anywhere near enough there to throw a vote down on.

9. BattleMage 9. Kinetic
: Scum. Obv.

12. Glork
: 99% believe his claim; the only possibility that I can see is he is the SK, but I don't buy it, as played out above and because his play is consistent with cop-play. If he's trying to run a burn on us then more power to him, it'll be one of the greatest plays I have ever seen if he pulls it off. Unless he manages to live through a couple of nights and we don't get the goon in that timeframe, he's effectively confirmed to me.

16. Jack
: I don't like his play with regards to MBL. I agree with his stance on kinetic, but I can't decide if he's merely following (first Glork, then myself) or if he is convinced kinetic is scum. He might be the goon; no investigation of him yet, and his place against the Sarc wagon could be telling. But then again, he voted YB, who I thought (still think) was the superior play in that situation, so I don't really hold it against him. He defended Guardian (after the *unclaim*) at first and tried to keep the lynch on him from progressing on a LaL front. I've already said that it would have been good for scum to keep Guardian alive in the game, so this is a point against him, in my book.

17. Yogurt Bandit 17. Mole
: Really thought YB was scum day 1; now I don't know. When I brought my initial lengthy attack against him, MoS and Sarc were two of the first to jump on. I don't know if they were bussing or if they thought the case was strong enough to wrangle a mislynch out on a weak player. Since then he's been much, much quieter, but still shown a propensity to jump on the nearest wagon. If Guardian is to be believed, YB played like that as town. A lot of my misgivings about YB centered on his interactions with Guardian, and I thought they had a strong chance of being teamscum together. With Guardan officially town, my feelings about YB are muddled. Regardless, he was completely useless when it came to scumhunting; his vote for Sarc looked like another "save myself" vote, which he also did with Albert on day 1. Someone in the game has stated that there is no way YB is the SK, but I don't remember who. If you think that, why? I don't particularly feel him being the SK either, but I don't really know why I feel that, and I'd like to hear what everyone else thinks. The MoS kill could have easily been YB-SK. The fact that he has survived two near-lynches, and two known scum were on him for a lot of that period, makes the likelihood of his being teamscum go down, in my opinion, and that might be coloring my feel for him being the SK.

18. Nik Zero 18. Yosarian2
: With the exception of lurker hunting I've pretty much agreed with Yos2's play this game. He lurked for a while, but most of us have at some point this game. I think he's raised good questions so far, and I love his initial stance on Guardian's unclaim. He was kind of the first person to really call for a Guardian lynch; since scum would want to keep the confusion Guardian provoked alive as long as possible, I like his play in that instance.


Most scummy to least scummy:

Kinetic
inHIm/AlyG
TCS
YB/Mole
Jack
Shteven
MBL
Yos2
Glork

The only player I feel really good about is Kinetic, everyone else besides Yos2 and Glork is kind of middle of the pack and could move one way or the other depending on night kills, etc.
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Post Post #2364 (ISO) » Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:20 am

Post by MrBuddyLee »

Prod Mole and AlyG please.
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Post Post #2365 (ISO) » Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:43 am

Post by MrBuddyLee »

beanbagboy's posts are fascinating. Reading them just now, I'm tempted to find Kinetic(BM) and YB NOT members of the mafia team.
bbb wrote:Glork, I don't think BM is scum. Granted, he is acting very stupid, but metagame wise he's like this in other games I'm in with him.
beanbagboy wrote:I really don't go for albert as scum. I think it's pretty much a null tell how he's acting, he does this all the time, or, at least it seems consistent with the other game I'm in with him. Granted, it's ongoing, but still, that's enough to keep my vote where it is.
beanbagboy wrote:I think his defense of YB is not so unfounded. I think it's possible that YB is just being n00by.
beanbagboy wrote:YB has turned himself around in my mind, from null tell noob to townish. Not definite, though, just seems townie.
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Post Post #2366 (ISO) » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:29 am

Post by BillyTwilight »

MrBuddyLee wrote:beanbagboy's posts are fascinating. Reading them just now, I'm tempted to find Kinetic(BM) and YB NOT members of the mafia team.
bbb wrote:Glork, I don't think BM is scum. Granted, he is acting very stupid, but metagame wise he's like this in other games I'm in with him.
beanbagboy wrote:I really don't go for albert as scum. I think it's pretty much a null tell how he's acting, he does this all the time, or, at least it seems consistent with the other game I'm in with him. Granted, it's ongoing, but still, that's enough to keep my vote where it is.
beanbagboy wrote:I think his defense of YB is not so unfounded. I think it's possible that YB is just being n00by.
beanbagboy wrote:YB has turned himself around in my mind, from null tell noob to townish. Not definite, though, just seems townie.
What about those posts makes you think that? I can see scum protecting scum in either case. On a quick reread of BBB, I see a lot of sucking up to Glork and not a lot in the way of scumhunting. He jumped back and forth on voting YB and calling him noob town, and the same with BM (jumped back and forth, saying maybe he was scum, maybe that's just the way he played). All in all I get a very tentative feel from BBB, like he was afraid to step on toes by going hard after any player, including Albert. If that's the case I don't find his "interpretation" of peoples play to be very good. He's simply too noncommittal on anyone, which makes gaging their alignment based on his play very difficult.
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Post Post #2367 (ISO) » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:41 pm

Post by MrBuddyLee »

I think novice scum are more likely to have trouble dealing with other novice players, and the kinder sort are prone to having pity and clearing other "noobs". The regretful tone in bbb's analysis of each of these three players looks similar, and I wouldn't be surprised if he knew they weren't his scumpartners. It's not a ton to go on, just a hunch based on a read of the guy's play, which is softhearted.
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Post Post #2368 (ISO) » Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:19 pm

Post by The Central Scrutinizer »

To post in all games:

Sorry, I've got zero interest in mafia right now. Hopefully I'll be back soon to make good on this game. I really apologize for doing this, I'm just completely burnt out. I'll either be back in a few days or ask to be replaced.
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Post Post #2369 (ISO) » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:00 pm

Post by AlyG »

Guys i'm up to about page 50 because i'm on limited access. If i have to be replaced i will PM LML.
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Post Post #2370 (ISO) » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:22 pm

Post by LoudmouthLee »

Since AlyG is on limited access...

CtD replaces AlyG as of this post!
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Post Post #2371 (ISO) » Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:24 pm

Post by LoudmouthLee »

Wow, no posts?


Deadline approaching if there isn't more posting.
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Post Post #2372 (ISO) » Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:28 pm

Post by CrashTextDummie »

Hello, guys. Most of you probably know me.

I will do a four part analysis on this game over the course of the next week.
[i]Mgm laughed nervously, his cheeks flushing in the faintest of blushes. "Patrick... I only wanted to be with you... that's why I put the game to night, so Glork would get killed."[/i] - the heartwarming conclusion of Face to Face Mafia
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Shteven
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Post Post #2373 (ISO) » Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:26 pm

Post by Shteven »

BillyTwilight wrote:

1. Shteven
: His arguments with Glork color my perspective of him, but right now I am feeling townie. I'd like to hear more from him in regards to Kinetic and MBL. I don't particularly like his post #2247; it's too noncommittal and I don't like noncommittal at this stage of the game. Why do you think Kinetic is scummy but not worth "building" a case against? If you find someone scummy you need to be probing for more information from them.
I get the tone from his posts that he wants to go after TCS but is afraid to actually step up, make the case, and vote accordingly.
The accuracy of this makes me want to trust billy. I'm trying to build up a "reasonably certain that they are town" list, it's not required that I believe you 100%, but to about 90% chance or so.

I'm willing to put Glork and Billy on the list. YB may get on, but I'm a bit iffy. I don't think YB could really be scum at this point with the way his wagons have gone. SK is unlikely but keeps him just under 90%.

I've posted some TCS reasoning earlier; and I expect if anything comes of this I'll be reposting a fair amount of it...but for now:

Vote: TCS
"I'm like the customer support line for life."

Carpe Diem. If you shake it hard enough, maybe money will fall out!
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Post Post #2374 (ISO) » Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:27 pm

Post by Shteven »

EBWOP: I'm not saying that one sentence completely cleared billy alone; I've thought he was townish for a long time. That line certainly helped though.
"I'm like the customer support line for life."

Carpe Diem. If you shake it hard enough, maybe money will fall out!

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