Mafia 68: Ork - Game over!

[ShadowLurker]

Placeholder post!
_________________
The Discreet Vote Count
Khelvaster - Yosarian2, CoolBot, Gorrad, Tarhalindur
Yosarian2 - Guardian, Kinetic
Tarhalindur - Shanba | Gorrad - Khelvaster | CoolBot - IH | Kinetic - Flameaxe | Guardian - Sefer

Not Voting - Mastermind of Sin, Pie_is_good, Skruffs, curiouskarmadog, scotmany12

[Mastermind of Sin]

Kinetic, the doc doesn't need to claim today. If no one counterclaims Khel, your WIFOMing the mafia could still work. However, if you get a counterclaim, the mafia will know Khel is not the doc for sure, so they won't be WIFOM'd anymore.

[Kinetic]

MOS: Truthfully, I was trying to coax a mafia to counter-claim Khel, trying to make the mafia think that would have me go 100% after Khel's lynch. Too many people jumped the gun and began voting Khel though so I didn't think it was safe to continue that attempt.

If someone did counterclaim him, I would have said "Ok, lynch neither, one most likely will be dead in a round, we'll lynch the other day 2. gg"

[Guardian]

lol, I can understand why some people want Kinetic 100% confirmed. I find him def. town, but lol.

[Gorrad]

I find him def. town, but lol.

Pardon my redundancy, but WHY?!?!? Make a frikkin' case already. We've made a case against him, but you have yet to post why you are so sure! I fail to see why you think he's practically confirmed, and your repeated defense of 'he's obviously town' without any facts to support you is just adding to my suspicion of y'all two as scumpartners. I said after the mass claim that I was wary of you using your influence as the one who started the pro-town movement to make it seem like you're infalliable, but it doesn't. Everyone must post logic, even you, if we want to win this thing.

Kinetic, I have half a mind that you're in this with Khelv. Flameaxe pointed out the mistake, and because you couldn't let such a slip go, you jumped on it. Now you DON'T want to lynch Khel, despite scumminess. I really don't think that anyone but scum would have made the same slip up as Khel, and I actually want to catch scum this game. You don't want to catch scum? Your choice! But I'm staying with lynching Khel.

[Guardian]

Cases are so over-
rated. I prefer to post
haiku, not logic.

[Skruffs]

Khel did get caught, but he is claiming (far as I can tell) to just be a townie who claimed doc to draw mafia away from the real doc. The third alternative is that he is mafia nad knows the real doc is dead, but doesn't want to be responsible for other power roles not being protected/not dying himself. Either way, he's dead by mafia tonight, if he's not scum himself.

In any case, his situation is going to resolve itself, and I am curious why everyone jumped on the opportunity to lynch i'm so quickly when town is inthe middle of discussing how to win this game

[Skruffs]

MOS: Truthfully, I was trying to coax a mafia to counter-claim Khel, trying to make the mafia think that would have me go 100% after Khel's lynch. Too many people jumped the gun and began voting Khel though so I didn't think it was safe to continue that attempt.

If someone did counterclaim him, I would have said "Ok, lynch neither, one most likely will be dead in a round, we'll lynch the other day 2. gg"

So..Now I'm confused. Are you saying that you originally believed Khel and was just trying to get him mislynched?

[Kinetic]

MOS: Truthfully, I was trying to coax a mafia to counter-claim Khel, trying to make the mafia think that would have me go 100% after Khel's lynch. Too many people jumped the gun and began voting Khel though so I didn't think it was safe to continue that attempt.

If someone did counterclaim him, I would have said "Ok, lynch neither, one most likely will be dead in a round, we'll lynch the other day 2. gg"

So..Now I'm confused. Are you saying that you originally believed Khel and was just trying to get him mislynched?

I wasn't trying to get him mislynched.

I am saying that I thought he might be the doc, but also that he might now. But I was half using his ambiguity to see if I could set up a scum trap. I didn't expect him to unclaim willingly, but I'm not unhappy with the results.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I find him def. town, but lol.

Pardon my redundancy, but WHY?!?!? Make a frikkin' case already. We've made a case against him, but you have yet to post why you are so sure! I fail to see why you think he's practically confirmed, and your repeated defense of 'he's obviously town' without any facts to support you is just adding to my suspicion of y'all two as scumpartners. I said after the mass claim that I was wary of you using your influence as the one who started the pro-town movement to make it seem like you're infalliable, but it doesn't. Everyone must post logic, even you, if we want to win this thing.

Kinetic, I have half a mind that you're in this with Khelv. Flameaxe pointed out the mistake, and because you couldn't let such a slip go, you jumped on it. Now you DON'T want to lynch Khel, despite scumminess. I really don't think that anyone but scum would have made the same slip up as Khel, and I actually want to catch scum this game. You don't want to catch scum? Your choice! But I'm staying with lynching Khel.

Do you think that I'm scumbuddies with Kinetic, too? I also agree with Guardian that Kinetic is protown, or were you ignoring that so you could place more suspicion on Guardian?

[Kinetic]

I feel the people that are jumping on Khel are the same people, and have the same motivations, as those who jumped on me. I'm going to play the game as I see it, and that includes not going with the

easy

lynch if I don't think its the

right

lynch.

[curiouskarmadog]

can I please have the claims, or at least the post number of someone who listed the claims.

[Guardian]

can I please have the claims, or at least the post number of someone who listed the claims.

750, top of page 31.

[curiouskarmadog]

can I please have the claims, or at least the post number of someone who listed the claims.

750, top of page 31.

thanks...

[Yosarian2]

Because, despite evidence he is lying, somewhere, we really don't KNOW if he is the doc or not. Without the real doc counter claiming that is.

The goal, right now, isn't to bandwagon Khev to a lynch. The goal is to increse the pressure on him until he starts making sense. IF he claims doc, then fine, we can work with that, we can figure out if we believe him or not, figure out if we want a counterclaim today or tommorow, ect. If he claims not doc, then we'll want him to explain all the other wierd stuff he's said today, and if he can do that, then we'll see. But at this point, the most likely explination for his posts is that he's scum who made a mistake and is trying to wriggle out of it without absolutly committing himself one way or the other, and so we need to pin him down to some kind of position here before we think about letting him off the hook.

Your "Bandwagon" to claim plan was utterly ludicrous, and was shot down as the scum logic it was immediately. Especially after you enacted your plan on a POWER ROLE that even said he was one.

...what?

My bandwagon to a claim plan would have given the town a lot more info then we have right now. For example, the bandwagon on you, followed by your claim, who voted for you, why they did, how they acted, when you claimed, and how you claimed, give us a lot more information then, say, MOS's claim as part of the mass claim did, and will give us even more once we find out your alignment. My plan would have clearly been better for the town then just having everyone claim, and several people agreed with me on that.

Third, despite Khel doing effectively the same thing, you didn't want to jump on him. I was the ONLY person who was pestering Khel and EVERYONE was againt me for it.

Well, that was my mistake. I believed him. I seem to be believing fake doc claims too often in my current games, I suppose I need to be more suspicious of them in the future. Nonetheless, that dosn't explain why you want to let the pressure up on him NOW.

But MOST of all, I have the Mafia WIFOMing themselves now. Khel very well MIGHT be the doctor. And the mafia don't know. They might know if he is mafia or not, and honestly that would be important. The reason I want the REAL doc to claim now is IF Khel is still alive late game, we don't know if the real doc is dead or not. However, if the real doc claims now, we know one of two things. Khel is either scum, or the real doc. And the person counter claiming him is either scum, or the real doc.

And what do we do? Nothing. It would be insane for the mafia to leave the one alive that is the REAL doc. Their best play would be to kill the doc.

Well, yeah, that goes without saying. However, the key thing is here, we certanly don't want anyone claiming anything unless we can pin Khel down to some solid position here, and even then we might not. So, again, why are you trying to let up the pressure on Khel before making him explain himself here?

[Yosarian2]

I feel the people that are jumping on Khel are the same people, and have the same motivations, as those who jumped on me. I'm going to play the game as I see it, and that includes not going with the

easy

lynch if I don't think its the

right

lynch.

Um...well, I voted for you because you were acting scummy, and I voted for Khel because Khel was acting scummy, so I suppose the statement that "the same people did it for the same reasons" is techniaclly true, although completly meaningless.

[ShadowLurker]

^ PRESERVED FOR HILARITY

PS. Everyone has posted in the past week! Yay

JEEP deleted the post, though. -JEEP

[Khelvaster]

I won't make a claim one way or the other. The mafia might end up losing their NK. Here are the conclusions you guys can reach, depending what happens d2


1a. There is only 1 NK, who is not me--I am townie, and the real doc protected me. The vig's NK targetted someone he thought was scum.

1b. There is only 1 NK, who is not me--I am doc, and the mafia or vig targetted my protectorate.

2. There is no NK--either the vig was retarded and went after me in addition to the mafia, or he couldn't make his mind who to kill. The mafia targetted me, but the doc protected me.

3. There are 2 NKs, one of which is me--I was doc, and the vig didn't target the guy I protected

4. There is 1 NK, me--The mafia targetted me, and the real doc was retarded and protected someone else.




That is why I won't put anything definitive about my doc/nondoc status until d2.

[Guardian]

Wait, uh oh. I don't want a real doc protecting Khel.

If Khel is a townie, I am FINE with him getting NKed.
If the vig or cop is killed and Khel lives, that is retarded.


Doc, don't protect Khel.

[Kinetic]

I won't make a claim one way or the other. The mafia might end up losing their NK. Here are the conclusions you guys can reach, depending what happens d2


1a. There is only 1 NK, who is not me--I am townie, and the real doc protected me. The vig's NK targetted someone he thought was scum.

1b. There is only 1 NK, who is not me--I am doc, and the mafia or vig targetted my protectorate.

2. There is no NK--either the vig was retarded and went after me in addition to the mafia, or he couldn't make his mind who to kill. The mafia targetted me, but the doc protected me.

3. There are 2 NKs, one of which is me--I was doc, and the vig didn't target the guy I protected

4. There is 1 NK, me--The mafia targetted me, and the real doc was retarded and protected someone else.





That is why I won't put anything definitive about my doc/nondoc status until d2.

Ummm what?

Vote: Khel

Scum trying to get the doc protect. I see now.

[Kinetic]

Khel, you are either scum or the doc. There is no vanilla townie option as far as I'm concerned.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I believe Khel is possibly a retarded townie, but I'd rather just let him live for now. I would not be miffed if the vig decided to kill him, but that is their choice.

[Flameaxe]

The option has been in my mind.

[Pie_is_good]

Okay, I just skimmed this stuff to catch back up, so this isn't really an in-depth analysis. On the major topics:

How to treat the vig

If we do this right, vig kill = lynch. We direct our vig ahead of time. In cases like this one with extreme, extreme WIFOMery going on, though, there's an outside chance that the vig would target the same person as the mafia. For this reason, I'd suggest that he makes tonight's call on his own, so that the mafia can't conciously avoid overlapping kills. As a general practice, though, he should be fully directed - a second lynch.

How to treat Khelv

BIG FRICKIN FOS: ANYONE WHO HAS REMOTELY ASSOCIATED WITH SOMEONE WHO HAS HAD A PASSING THOUGHT ABOUT MAYBE KILLING KHELVASTER IN THE DISTANT FUTURE.

It would be the highest form of suicide to lynch someone

with a decent chance of being the real doc.

Reading through his stuff, I'm in agreement that Khelv seems quite scummy.

It doesn't matter

. It's worth the risk of leaving a scum alive to avoid the risk of lynching our doc. Have any of you thought of how unbelievably shot to hell the whole massclaim plan is without a doc on board? The cop goes down, then the vig goes down, then the town is in a bad, bad place.

This is not worth the risk. We only get harmed a little if Khelv is scum and we don't kill him. We pretty much lose if Khelv is doc and we do kill him.

I can't stress this enough.

In fact, I'm going to

Vote: Yosarian

, as that's the next bandwagon in place, and the Khelv bandwagon is ten kinds of suckitude. When I read more in-depth, I'll re-evaluate based on who's scummy.

[Guardian]

I agree with most of Pie's post, especially directing the vig -- it is what I've been trying to explain all along >.>.

Doc, if you aren't Khelv, I again stress that you not protect Khelv. If you are the doc he is either scum or a townie, neither of which merit protection.