Mafia 64: The New "C9" - Game over!

[Jack]

This isn't a key issue, I just think it's a mathematical advantage.

scenario 1: lynch mbl sk: 8 alive tomorrow, 2 scum. lynch kinetic, 6 alive, 1 scum. Two lynches left.

scenario 2: lynch kinetic-gf: 7 alive tomorrow. glork dead, small chance gf dead. lynch mbl, 5 alive, 1 scum. 2 lynches left.

scenario 3: lynch kinetic-goon: 7 alive tomorrow, maybe mbl-sk dead, maybe gf dead. lynch mbl, 5 alive, 1 scum. 2 lynches left.

The extra person doesn't matter because 4 alive is still lylo. In the latter two situations there is a chance for crosskills.

[MrBuddyLee]

I'm not sure this has been stated clearly, but Manaspryte's protection of Glork N3 doesn't indicate in any way shape or form that he is the cop. He could just as easily be the SK based solely on that series of events.

In my opinion, the only argument against Glork being SK is that it would be terribly risky for an SK to claim cop. But scum had already targeted him once and will likely target him again now that the doc's dead. At this point, Glork-SK's only chance of winning the game would be to continually point out likely alternative NK targets to the mafia in hopes that they won't kill him. This would jive with the fact that Glork may be doing more "SK-hunting" than mafia hunting at present--which would be in an effort to convince to take shots at a hypothetical SK instead of at "the cop". A godfather might even endure the risk of another investigation for a night shot at the SK, and if Glork-claimed-cop gets lucky and lynches one scum and NKs the other, he can coast to victory.

I need to think this all the way through to see if the theory has any holes. I don't forward it as significantly likely yet, I just forward it as something that crossed my mind.

[Kinetic]

Its much more likely he's SK, but there isn't no chance he's mafia either.

If MBL does come up mafiascum (or even Godfather, like I'm thinking now)

BT looks like a Goon trying to defend MBL, who I'm now convinced is the Godfather.

So, Kinetic, you went from thinking I was "much more likely SK" to "Godfather, like I'm thinking now" in a span of 47 minutes? And then became entirely convinced over the next 24 hours? I'd love to hear the thought process behind that shift of opinion.

Ummm, what? I'm trying to find those posts real fast but the first inconsistency I found was the time/date stamps are wrong....

On Sept 6, these are the posts "made" when I supposedly made that comment.

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:16 pm Post subject: 2226

unvote, vote: MBL

That has got to be the worst argument I have ever heard.

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:25 pm Post subject: 2227

Fine, lynch me impulsively and hand the various flavors of scum the game. Hurry!

I just got back from 12 days in the desert. I'm not going to make perfect sense right off the bat after skimming what's happened. Give me some time here to read the game and see which manipulative bastard didn't REALLY believe Guardian or Huck were scum. I also want to reread people's arguments in favor of voting me to see which have even the slightest ounce of merit. I've played a VERY protown game thus far, and you guys are borderline retarded for finding me scummy. If you have the time, please clarify your cases so I can see which of them ooze pus. Thanks.

Ummm where is my magical post in between? I'm currently looking for that post so I can read my own context and defend myself. Maybe its somewhere else, and you just got the dates wrong. The time lag might even still be there, but since you were SO specific, I just wanted to read my own comments myself before I replied to them

[Jack]

@Kinetic: imo you have a 50% chance of being the goon. If we lynch you as goon, then glork is no threat. I think the gf would worry about the kill and kill mbl, and it's possible that mbl would kill the gf. This situation is advantageous to us. If your the gf then they'll kill glork of course, that's why I said "good chance".

Will you post the rest of your notes?

Bleh, I really don't want to >> I haven't updated them at all since the beginning of this day, and honestly they were only a reference so that I could keep all the people in this game apart in my head so I didn't confuse them with either other games or with each other. (During my re-read I kept interchanging your posts and BT's posts near the beginning, ugh).

Not to mention I don't normally take notes... for anything. School, class, etc. I'm really bad at taking them. I've already been made fun of once because of them in this game, and I really don't like that. If you MUST see them, bleh, I'll post them. But do you really need to?

Yes I must.

[MrBuddyLee]

Jack, I find your squeamishness about discussing SK vs. mafia theories curious. We all know that scum knows I'm not scum, and the SK knows I'm not the SK. The more I get people to talk about the relative chance that I'm SK or scum, the better I can gauge whether they're falsifying their "beliefs". ESPECIALLY considering there's some evidence out there that has at least three people saying I'm unlikely to be one particular faction.

It's gotta be hard for you three scummy jackasses out there to keep trying to pin your own faction on me when you know you're full of shit. And believe me, if you keep fabricating, I'm eventually going to smell your bullshit as it runneth over. So pin, pin, pin away.

And curiously, rather than risk falsifying your beliefs, Jack, you're refusing to give them on the matter. Or you're just an obstinate townie trying to make my job difficult. Please play along in the future if you're town, thanks.

[Kinetic]

The New C9 Edit/Delete this post Delete this post
( Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:50 am )

Roles left:
0-1 Vig - High likelihood there is no vig
0/2 Masons Shteven? possible no masons...
0-1 Cop Glork? Would explain why he thinks there are not many power roles left.
0-2 Doc: Mana and Guardian have claimed Doc. Both of them were majorly suspicious before this. Mana was one of the people I thought was mafia, and I felt sure Guardian could be SK...
+ = Scum tell


1. Shteven
He's been acting strange all game. Mason? Who's his partner? Mafia?
Gains townie points from Sarcastro...

2. MrBuddyLee (MBL)
Seems town.

5. The Central Scrutinizer (TCS)
Vote Positioning suggests possible scum
Inhim noted a clear consensus on TCS's movements on Day 1 during Day 2. Since I know BM was town it leads more credence to his theory.

6. Coron 6. inHimshallIbe
Vote Positioning suggests possible scum
Possible Teamscum outlook
+
Mason?
Good reasonsing beginning day 2


8. HackerHuck
Vote Positioning suggests possible scum
+

11. Guardian
Claimed Doctor
Possible Serial Killer?

12. Glork
I have a strong feeling he might be one of the remaining team scum
No.. He's a power role. Seems possible he's the cop.
Not a mason
Proof he might be the cop below

15. Billy Twilight
Vote Positioning suggests possible scum
+
Really don't like his posts/conclusions...

16. Jack
+

17. Yogurt Bandit
Two wagons on him, both have failed at the last moment. High likelihood of town after the second failed wagon.
Not a mason
High unlikeliness of being SK

18. Nik Zero 18. Yosarian2


19. Johhan 19. Xyzzy 19.ManaSpryte
Vote Positioning suggests possible scum
High likelihood of teamscum
Not Mason
Doctor??? Seems possible...
After reading his first post, I'm fairly convinced he's newbie doc... -.-

Dead
10. JDodge - Cop - Shot - Night 1
4. SpectrumVoid (SV) - Townie - Chainsawed - Night 1
Killed before Day 1.

13. Albert B. Rampage - Townie - Deadline Lynched - Day 1
Final Vote Count
Albert B. Rampage[town] – 8 – Yosarian2, xyzzy, MrBuddyLee, HackerHuck, YogurtBandit, Shteven, The Central Scrutinizer, inHimShallIBe
YogurtBandit – 8 – Sarcastro[scum], Billy Twilight, HungryJoe, Jack, Glork, Albert B. Rampage[town], Mastermind of Sin[scum], Guardian
Guardian – 2 – Battle Mage[town], AutumnEvenings[town]

3. HungryJoe 3. Zindaras - Townie - Shot - Night 2
Not killed for something HJ did. Killed by Glork since Zindy knows Glork so well? Would also help fit JDodge with Glork scum...

7. ~N9V~ 7. Mastermind Of Sin - Mafia Goon - Chainsawed - Night 2
Calls Glork "Very Protown", called BBB protown, despite little to no information on him... Billy Twilight? TCS?

20. BeanBagBoy (BBB) 20. Plessiez 20. Sarcastro -Mafia Goon - Lynched - Day 2
6 votes for Sarcastro[scum] (AutumnEvenings[town], Shteven, YB, MBL, Glork, Guardian)
6 votes for Yogurt Bandit (HackerHuck, ManaSpryte, InHim, BillyTwilight, Jack, TCS)
1 vote for InHim (Yosarian2)
1 vote for Guardian (BattleMage)
1 vote for Shteven (Sarcastro[scum])
14. Haut Boy 14. AutumnEvenings - Townie - Chainsawed - Night 3

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Albert B. Rampage – 8 – Yosarian2, xyzzy, MrBuddyLee, HackerHuck, YogurtBandit, Shteven, The Central Scrutinizer, inHimShallIBe
YogurtBandit – 8 – Sarcastro, Billy Twilight, HungryJoe, Jack, Glork, Albert B. Rampage, Mastermind of Sin, Guardian

Guardian – 2 – Battle Mage, AutumnEvenings

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Battle Mage early bandwagon – 8 - Glork, BillyTwilight, Guardian, AutumnEvenings, HungryJoe, The Central Scrutinizer, yogurtbandit, Sarcastro

If BM is town or SK, I expect there to be two scum in the above. If he is scum, very likely there is only one scum voting him.

End of Day spread:
Voting for ABR – YB, TCS
Voting for YB – Glork, BT, Hungry Joe, Sarcastro, Guardian
Not voting either of the above – AE

People that I mentally clear: YB, BT, AE – this leaves TCS, Glork, Sarcastro, Guardian where there is at least one scum, again imo. I noted the Day’s end vote counts because I think scum would separate themselves after being clumped together on an early bandwagon (remember this all hinges on the fact that I believe BM is town). Given all these assumptions, I see an isolation.

vote: The Central Scrutinizer - and now I also see the unprovoked unvote of Guardian. Yes, I liked this vote Yesterday, and encourage it Today.

Having re-examined inHim last night, I no longer believe that he is likely to be scum. I think I was just getting a bit to OMGUSy over his attacks on me. I still don't particularly like them, but I can kindasorta see where he was coming from. I've already put TCS in pretty much the exact same boat.

Glork is the cop!? Inhim is innocent/N2 Target.

Also glork, someone in the general discussion thread said that when you are pro-town you "reek of pro-town". You don't reek of pro-town this game. hmm?

Do you need me to start linking games where people found me scummy but I was town?

I find it rather absurd that you're taking one player's opinion and using it as law to meta me. For the record, the player who said that about me was Zindaras.
1) Zindaras and I have been playing mafia together since before either of us knew what MafiaScum was. I can say with the utmost confidence that there is no other player who can get more out of my posts to get a good read on me.
2) What one player (in this case, Zindaras) believes to be pro-town is not always what another player believes to be pro-town. This statement is proven by simple observation. If everybody thought that the same things were pro-town, all of the townies would agree on every lynch. The fact that there's so much debate in each and every mafia game, even amongst protown players, is testament to the fact that no two players find the same things pro-town or scummy.
**Case in point: My assessment of Albert's play in this very game. He alleged that shameless bandwagoning was a good way of hunting scum. I told him that he was going about it all wrong, that it takes a specific eye for reactions to bandwagons to make such tactics effective, and that even then it's a very dangerous game to play.
**Further case in point: The debate regarding BM's alleged "always scumminess." Some argue that BM is responsible for his actions in each game, regardless of what the meta towards him is. BM asserted that instead of just saying "oh, he's being scummy again, let's vote him" players should be looking at what makes him scum this time around as to the scummy town that he "usually" is.

I grow tired of this charade.

Either Glork or Jack is mafiascum. Explains the immediate Zindy kill. Jack didn't want Zindy confirming Glork and Glork didn't want Zindy outing him.

---------------

Here. They are unorganized and I don't feel like going back and organizing them. Have fun.

[MrBuddyLee]

Show all posts by Kinetic,

Post subject: 43, 44, 47

[Jack]

mbl, all the arguments I've made have pointed to you as sk. It's

obvious

I think your sk and not mafia. It's also obvious that you'd rather defend yourself from claims that your teamscum then that your sk. That's sidestepping, and I'm not going to let you do that.

[MrBuddyLee]

Hey, cool, check out those notes! Kinetic found me one of the two most pro-town players on August 29th.

Gee, what happened between now and then? Oh yeah, Glork posted irresponsibly. And Kinetic sheeped. Good job to both of you /salute

Glork, if you're gonna post under the influence, the least you could do is not drag good people down with you.

[MrBuddyLee]

Jack, there's not a hell of a lot of difference between town play and SK play, as I've pointed out in previous posts. Both are hunting scum. I'd be FASCINATED to hear anyone make a successful argument in defense of themselves not being SK.

In fact, why don't you start. Jack, what evidence is there that you are NOT the SK?

[MrBuddyLee]

side note to townies and the actual SK:

scum are obviously hoping against hope to nail the SK today so they can lynch the cop tonight and face a 6 town 2 scum scenario which would essentially be a day from LoL. Keep an eye out for anyone overly excited about hitting the SK right now...

[Kinetic]

Ah, so you WERE taking me out of context. Grats MBL. Remember, when using the targeted reread function, remember to go back and find those posts in the thread so you can see what ELSE was happening then. The prompts to why something was posted and what happened after/in-between them are often just as important if not more than the actual comments.

...

I suppose logically if we really think MBL probably isn't mafia, he's probably not the best lynch for today; we've got better odds going for one of the people that could be SK or scum, and I agree that his sarc vote makes it less likely he's mafia. He's looked quite scummy since he's got back, and I hate to let him off the hook for that, but I'm thinking he's probably not the best lynch for today unless we think it's possible he could be a mafia who bussed Sarc.

Yos: Which is entirely possible. Glork presented evidence that ML has done just that before, many times. Glork's case pretty much has MBL dead to rights. Its much more likely he's SK, but there isn't no chance he's mafia either.

So this post is in response to Yos asking me if I only thought your were possibly the SK. In which, I state, that while I believe the SK case is the more likely of the two, Glork's case basically presents you as mafia, which I start to agree with after:

Hi, please recall Face-To-Face and then tell me that you don't try to bus and then garner credit for it and/or use it to your advantage.(...)

(...)Kinetic (ironically enough) summed it up well in that MBL is not only likely to be the SK, but his behavior is certainly

NOT

indicative of him being non-mafia.

I'm suspicious of BT mainly because of the timing of his huge attack on me. Seems like he was trying to get suspicion off of MBL why attacking someone else that could be scum. If MBL does come up mafiascum (or even Godfather, like I'm thinking now), BT seems like a possible last goon (or the godfather if MBL comes up goon).

and finally:

I'm sorry, reading BT's response to my response is just hilarious. I explained myself and I don't think you "breaking down" my explanation is anything more than scum trying to pull something from nothing.

I originally thought BT was trying to pull something out of nothing to defend MBL and this is going exactly that way. BT looks like a Goon trying to defend MBL, who I'm now convinced is the Godfather.

I thought you had a high chance of being mafia or SK. BT's consistently scummy defense of you has me leaning to you being his scum buddy. And the most logical explanation for that is you are the Godfather and he is the goon.

[Kinetic]

EBWOP:

I'm suspicious of BT mainly because of the timing of his huge attack on me. Seems like he was trying to get suspicion off of MBL why attacking someone else that could be scum. If MBL does come up mafiascum (or even Godfather, like I'm thinking now), BT seems like a possible last goon (or the godfather if MBL comes up goon).

Defeated by pHpbb again!

[MrBuddyLee]

Another thing to take note of, peoples:

scum know most alignments and won't try to pin down most people--they'll let many slide. keep an eye out for those who have been focusing narrowly the past few days...

[MrBuddyLee]

Kinetic, I didn't take you out of context at all significantly. You made your entire shift from "MBL is most likely SK" to "MBL is most likely godfather" in a few hours based on one piddling post from Glork that said:

"MBL is not only likely to be the SK, but his behavior is certainly NOT indicative of him being non-mafia"

It's absurdly inconsistent--put politely, you are a sapling in the wind. And it's very possible you're scum with no true convictions. Why would a townie allow their opinions to be so entirely run by one player?

[MrBuddyLee]

Given my level of behavior and interaction/conflict with other players, do you find me likely to be the SK?

Please clarify this quote, Glork. What about your behavior/interaction/conflict makes you less likely to be the SK?

[MrBuddyLee]

Another thing... if Glork is SK pretending to be cop, a survival tactic is to identify a likely mafia goon and convince them he will NOT investigate them tonight. That way, scum won't fear his "investigation result" and Glork-SK can survive another night while taking a shot at mafia and hopefully clearing them out in the next day's lynch.

This would explain Glork's inexplicable refusal to find Kinetic scummy--he's actually placating Kinetic so he won't fear a night investigation and therefore won't kill Glork tonight.

Paranoia? Maybe, but we'd be fools not to keep it in mind.

[MrBuddyLee]

Is the entirety of Glork's case against me any good? Let's see:

He called SV's death an "odd" kill choice. I went after him for this on D1 -- it indicates an attempt to distance himself from the SK's actions by making people believe that, because MBL doesn't understand the motive for killing SV, he likely did not kill SV.

OK, so instead of ignoring the nightkill I made, I associated myself with it. Dammit, I should have just kept my mouth shut and no one would ever suspect I killed sv. Thanks, Glork, I'll keep that in mind for next time, thank god for guys like you to teach me how to play SK. I suppose you have a metagame on me for this as well? "When scum, MBL tends to express confusion about the nightkills he's just committed." Dammit, I really need to wisen up and stop playing like

a complete retard

.

He asserted that the SK should be going after scummy players, and then congratulated (or at least pointed out that the SK was following him) when MoS died N2. This is odd, because MBL assumes that the SK killed MoS because the SK thought MoS was scum and therefore was following MBL's advice. It is entirely possible that the SK was hoping to hit power and "missed" and hit a scumbag instead. Yet MBL assumes that the SK had A) deduced that MoS was likely scum; and B) hit MoS beacuse he thought that MoS was scum. Now, couple that with this post, and it gives me strong incentive to believe that MBL is an SK who just decided to off MoS there and then. And for reference, here is the "good job SK" post to which I am referring.

Did MoS give you any power tells, Glork? I'd love to see them. I'll be a monkey's uncle if after the game the SK tells us he killed MoS because he acted like a mason/vig/cop/doc. If I was the SK, here'd be my thought process:

"Hmm, MoS is all over my ass, what the fuck. Maybe he's the cop! Yeah that's it, oh shit he's attacking me left and right and voting for my ass 5 times today and... phew I didn't get lynched yeah let's kill him tonight cause that won't reflect badly on me at all whatsoever no sirree bobby. Subtlety is mah middle name bitches!"

Except I'd be forgetting the part where cops get innocents on serial killers. So I must have picked up a mason tell on MoS, right, Glorkie baby?

Continued next post. This is a laugh riot.

[MrBuddyLee]

The N3 death on AE is interesting. AE was definitely pointing at MBL as an SK, and then she got Chainsawed. He also openly tried to convince us not to take her word for things and describes getting a bad vibe on her, all in this post. Again, if he really thought AE was scum, her death would not only fit in with his "SK should be hunting scum" ideology, but would also serve to silence one of his harshest critics.

Yup, I fooled you guys the first time by killing my harshest critic, so OOPS I DID IT AGAIN! I figure if I keep killing the PERSON MOST LOUDLY PROCLAIMING I'M THE SK maybe nobody will notice and I'll survive all 13 kill opportunities to endgame.

Last night's HH kill makes sense if he thought HH was scum, like I did. Unlike what Shteven claims, I think that there was a pretty decent case for HH being scum -- enough so that I was obviously willing to investigate him. Unfortunately, explaining this ahead of time means that any thoughts MBL gives on HH's death will be chock full of WIFOM. What I will point to, however, is this:MBL wrote:
Huck: you're playing the way you criticized me for playing in Mormon2. Lurky-scummy.
...from his last post from yesterday. A) Hypocritical (at least in my opinion) that he calls HH lurky-scummy. B) An indicator that he finds HH scummy, and that HH subequently died.

Yup, I did find H-H scummish. Why would you even bother throwing in the cheap shot about "lurky-scummy" being hypocritical? It's totally irrelevant to your point here, and besides, I believe I posted about 10x more content than Huck so I wasn't being hypocritical in the least. But back on topic, TCS, Yos, Jack, YB, BT, inHim TOTALLY ignored Huck, Shteven found Huck a saint and you and I found Huck scummy. It's interesting to note that your conclusion is NOT that I am wise for being the only player to share your opinion, or that the other players are suspicious for NOT sharing your opinion or for ignoring Huck altogether, but rather that I am scummy because H-H died. I suppose if that's the case then I should ratchet up my suspicion of you as SK, since you and I were the only people who as theoretical SK expressed suspicion of Huck.

A few other random things:MBL wrote:
Glork, if you're scum please don't NK me.
That stuck out to me. Vested interest in not being killed. When I think about it more, though, it seems less of a tell than one might think, because I doubt MBL consciously and intentionally would hint-drop SK. He would, however, want to dissuade possible mafia from killing him, though, so I don't see that as being a major issue.

I'll be sure to put this one in a list of tips for solid SK play: "Please don't NK me" is an effective persuasive tactic used by SKs worldwide as a subtle means of discouraging the other faction from NKing. Don't forget to say please or the imploration won't likely have the desired effect."

Seriously, Glork, does it even cross your mind that you're trying to make these kindergarten cases against a quality player? Like five of these points you're making are the kinds of insights the kids would use on Blues' Clues. "You overtly asked mafia to leave you alive, so you are likely the SK." Yes, Glork, I'm a player who lacks all subtlety whatsoever and will directly ask opposing factions IN THREAD for what I need in order to stay alive. ffs, use your head, man.

continued...

[MrBuddyLee]

Finally, the metagaming arguments from Glork:

MBL's fervence D1 with hunting mafia piqued me. In Kelly's "Moses in Egypt" game, he was part of one scumgroup and dedicated himself wholly to busting everyone in the other scumgroup first. I remember him telling me on AIM (after I had died in that game and guessed that he was scum) he was pretty much hellbent on finding the last werewolf. A weak meta-tell at best, but another thing that stuck out to me. MBL and I are alike in that, if we're scum in a game with two factions, we're going to do our absolute best to nail the other scum faction, because A) people think you're more likely to be protown since you're hunting scum; and B) you don't have to waste nightkills on the rival faction.

In any game I'm in, I'm trying aggressively to find the identities of anyone I'm not aligned with. I'm not understanding what the metagame is here, because in this game I've been nailing scum and poking around for the SK, who is obviously a lot harder to find due to lack of associations with teammates. Can you please explain how my play this game is inconsistent with good ol' pro-town scumhunting MBL? Do my posts indicting MoS and Sarc, and my posts presciently clearing other death-confirmed innocents, and my posts mistaking Huck's alignment, ring false to you?

Another meta-argument for MBL-scum. In Mafia 60, I explained that MBL has a tendency as scum to stay away from the big wagons/lynches and keep his vote either nowhere or on somebody off-wagon. This post, and MBL's subsequent vote on Albert (about two RL-days later), made me wonder if he was trying to actively avoid doing the same thing here. As you can see, I had also noticed that MBL was withholding his vote. His response was to stop witholding his vote and place it on the Albert-wagon.

Wait, so I traditionally avoid bad wagons as scum and then because of some retarded metagame you forwarded, I decided to plunk a vote down on a shitty wagon? Question: if I'm SK, how did I know Albert was a shitty wagon? Answer: I didn't and couldn't, because I didn't and couldn't know his alignment because he was a townie. If I was scum he could have been SK. If I was SK he could have been scum. If I was town he could have been either. Please explain more clearly what metagame you're trying to float here, because it makes no sense to me.

Oh, and the main thing "for" MBL being a mafiate isn't really a point specifically for him. He has a tendency to bus and to try to act like a turning point against scum. His behavior towards Sarc seemed that way to me. He tried to be a turning point on both CDB and CES in Mafia 60, and it very nearly allowed him to ride to victory

You are correct, I tried to be a turning point on CDB in F2F, even though I wasn't. It didn't quite work. I WAS the turning point on Sarc. Here's how the D2 race progressed:

4 votes for Yogurt Bandit (HackerHuck, ManaSpryte, InHim, BillyTwilight)
3 votes for Sarcastro (Glork, AutumnEvenings, Shteven)

YB votes Sarc (4-4)
Jack votes YB (5-4 yb)
TCS expresses preference for YB but doesnt vote
jack unvotes yb (4-4)
jack votes yb (5-4 yb)
glork unvotes sarc (5-3 yb)

It's 40 hours to deadline
mbl votes sarc (5-4 yb)

So what you're telling me is that given two choices:
A) 40 hrs before deadline, MBLmafia sees his scumpartner safely at 3-5 and decides to put him at risk by upping the vote to 5-4 instead of placing his vote on any of 14 other players
(or)
B) 40 hours before deadline, MBLtown does an analysis post, finds Sarc scummiest, and places a vote to push Sarc forward as an alternative to YB, who MBL doesn't find particularly scummy

Given those two choices, you think (A) is more likely? Can you please explain WHY ON EARTH you think (A) is more likely? Because to be honest, if I had a scumpartner do to me what I did to Sarc, I'd be tempted to kick them in the throat for such disastrously terrible team play.

[MrBuddyLee]

Conclusion: Glork's case relies on the theory that I am a moronic SK who:

* Drew an association in thread between myself and my N1 kill, sv
* N2, chose to kill the player I'd made my most vocal case against D1, drawing attention to myself again
* D2, clumsily drew attention to the fact that MoS was quite possibly killed due to my indictment of him D1
* N3, chose to kill AE, the person who'd been calling me SK all D2.
* D2, overtly begged scum not to kill me in hopes it would earn me, the SK, another few days of survival and allow me to fly under the radar.
* D1/D2, made a big deal about how important it was for the SK to go out and hit scum, and then went on to kill both scum N1 and D2.

I have never been given the role of SK as far as I can recall. Ask yourself if, given the chance to be an SK for the first time, you would choose to play it this high profile from the outset, essentially daring the mafia to NK you every night. Ask yourself why the mafia hasn't killed me by now if they really think my D1/D2 behavior was indicative of a true SK. Ask yourself if any SK in history has survived a 25-person game by utilizing such an in-your-face strategy.

So yeah, ask yourself whether you REALLY think I'm the SK, or whether you're letting someone lead you around by the nose based on evidence that's too good to be true. Evidence that would lead you to conclude that I'm essentially a moron with no hope of victory if I'm the SK. Glork, you said my play showed desire for self-preservation--I'm amazed you can say that with a straight face.

As an aside, ask yourself whether you want to kill off the only person to be right about both scum so far.
Shteven--right about Sarc, wrong about MoS.
Yos--wrong about MoS, ignored Sarc.
BT--ignored both.
YB--wrong on MoS, right on Sarc.
Glork--right on Sarc, wrong on MoS.
BM(Kinetic)--ignored MoS and Sarc.
Jack--ignored MoS, overtly protected Sarc.
inHim--rightish on MoS, ignored Sarc
TCS--ignored MoS, overtly protected Sarc
MBL--right on MoS, right on Sarc

It's kind of amusing to note that the two possible cases against me both have me playing as a complete moron. Either:

* I'm mafia scum inappropriately and mercilessly attacking and lynching my scumpartners and pointing them out coldly to the SK and lynch mob.
(or)
* I'm an SK who's pretty much worn an orange and black SK vest since day one and made the WORST POSSIBLE NK every night as far as maintaining his low profile is concerned.

And in actuality the correct answer is:

* I'm a pro-town player who's directed the SK to hit MoS, was EASILY the person most responsible for the Sarc lynch, discouraged lynching Guardian, correctly read manaspryte and autumn, and attempted unsuccessfully to draw mafia nightkills because I'm not a cop, doc or vig.

Order of suspicions:
scummiest

Kinetic
Twilight
TCS
Jack
Glork
Yos2
inHim(AlyG)
YB(Mole)
Shteven

least

[Yosarian2]

I'll tell you the truth, I really don't like certain "attitudes" and "points" that Jack has presented...

First he things that the mafia will "obviously" kill MBL. He's so sure he doesn't even put down any reasoning.

However, in my opinion, the Mafia have a lot more to worry about from Glork than MBL at this point. Glork can really only find one of their goons. The SK, for all he cares, might not even worry about Glork. He can't hurt him.

...

To tell you the honest truth, MBL has more to worry about if he's mafia about being NKed by the SK then if he's the SK. I see Glork as higher priority in the mafia's eyes. While if MBL is alive tonight that means I've been most likely lynched. We go into day 5 with 4-5 townies, 1-2 mafia, and the SK. But basically, it all boils down to if the SK hits MBL and he's Mafia or not. If I'm lynched, and MBL isn't mafia, we're looking at 4 townies, 2 mafia, and 1 SK. If he is, we're at a much more manageable 5 townies, 1 mafia, 1 SK. Also, depending on which mafia MBL is, we could possibly eliminate up to 3 people from the last mafia pool.

So, all-in-all, IF MBL is the SK, he doesn't need to worry about NKs right now. Mafia are most likely not going to target him. If he is Mafia, he does.

So Jack, if you TRULY believe that MBL is SK and you are not mafia, then by this logic MBL IS the lynch for today.

Man, this post bugs me. Does it feel to anyone else here that Kinetic might be some kind of scum (perhaps SK) trying to direct the other scumgroup in order to avoid having both groups kill the same person?

Him saying "Mafia should kill the cop, SK should not kill the cop" is just incredibly anti-town, and smells of possible in-thread communication to me.

fos:Kinetic

[Yosarian2]

* I'm a pro-town player who's directed the SK to hit MoS, was EASILY the person most responsible for the Sarc lynch, discouraged lynching Guardian...

Got to say, I'm amused by you taking responsibiltiy for "discoraging lynching Guardian", when you weren't even around when we found out that Guardian was lying about being the doctor. Like, you really don't think that that little fact MIGHT have changed your mind about him if you'd been around when it happened? Sheesh.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

"Overdefense?"

[MrBuddyLee]

Got to say, I'm amused by you taking responsibiltiy for "discoraging lynching Guardian", when you weren't even around when we found out that Guardian was lying about being the doctor. Like, you really don't think that that little fact MIGHT have changed your mind about him if you'd been around when it happened? Sheesh.

Yeah, it's nearly as amusing as the fact that I was in the middle of the Nevada desert with no Internet when HackerHuck got chainsawed, but we won't harp on that cause it'd make this game a lot less fun. Have you met your snarky quotient yet today, Yos, and are you finally ready to start hunting scum?