Mafia 64: The New "C9" - Game over!

[Glork]

Yes. It is. Saving YB for possible lynch on a future day seems to make the most sense to me of all. As Mafia, I'd be okay with busing Sarc in that instance. As SK, I'd leave YB alive because he probably buys me another day/night.

[Jack]

I agree with Glork. While I find Kinetic scummy the wagon on him looks like nothing more than bald opportunism.

Can you explain why you think kinetic is scummy and why you think the wagon on him is oppurtunistic?

[Glork]

But arguably, you have been more ardent about my scumminess in the games in which you've been wrong.

That is certainly

arguable

:

...so your defense is essentially "I was wrong, but the scums were sitting back not attacking Zindaras so I'm not scum." Am I missing something?


MBL, I demand that if you go to lynch anybody today, it's me. I'd rather die and have my alignment revealed to everybody so that they can take you down in a fiery salvo tomorrow. I think you know that once I'm revealed as town, your house of cards will collapse all around you. Ever since the day started, you've accused me of being scum, but you still refuse to lay a vote down on me. I think it's for one of two reasons: You're worried that you can't actually get anybody else to follow you for a mislynch; or you're petrified that once I'm revealed as a pro-town entity, it will be

damning

for you as a player.

My old case against Zindaras was laid out long ago, back on Day Three when I was making my analyses. I posited that he was scum for his own rights, and I eventually connected him to CDB when I decided that CDB was likely scum. However, as today progressed, I obviously moved away from that stance. You say that I'm being opportunistic by going after Nightfall and yourself, yet you were the one pushing a lynch against an inactive player without making a substantial (or even well-defined) case of your own.

Did you ever stop to think for maybe just one second that the reason nobody would put forth a case against Zindaras is because players slowly realized that said case was little more than steam? That, combined with Ether's post (which was lost in the crash) convinced me that Nightfall was probably scum, and you (along with a re-read of interactions between you/CDB and you/Nightfall) have convinced me with your recent actions that you are the other scumbag. If you bothered to read the thread, you would notice why other players' suspicions have waned. The reason that Zindaras wasn't getting lynched is not because scum were too afraid to do it. It's because as it turns out, none of the Townies (except Patrick and, to a lesser extent, Ether IIRC)

really

actually thought that Zindie was scum when all was said and done.

You accuse me of not diligently hunting scum in the past day. I will admit that my activity today has not been up to snuff. I mostly blame graduation. But I think I proved my

diligence

yesterday when I read through some 27 pages, noted everything that looked interesting to me, found the Cop, decided Thesp was scum, voted for CDB, and got Fritz to follow me onto CDB -- which

eventually

led to his demise.

You also say you wanted to hear my DEFENSE of Zindaras. I gave it to you. I fulfilled your desire. What do you think of that defense? You say nothing about it -- nothing at all, except your unfounded repetition that I'm acting weird, that

you

wanted to see what everyone

else

had to say. I find it more-than-alarming that while you use this as your excuse for saying nothing, you attack *ME* for doing essentially the same thing. Yes, I said that I wanted opinions to formulate my own opinion. That was... a half-truth. I was already moving away from Zindaras, but I wanted to see

why

people were attacking Zindaras because

motive

and

intent

are important at this stage. I said that if we were going to pussy-foot around and do nothing, that we might as well just lynch Zindaras, because Zindie getting modkilled would likely mean a forced no-lynch the following day. I meant that 100%. Now it *does* look as though (unless you get lynched today and Nightfall the day after) we're going to have to no-lynch before this game is over. Either that or we can just deal with a 6p or 4p endgame. *shrug*

------

Note, everyone, that in a lengthy post attacking me,

my

tactics, trying to discredit

my

case against him, saying that

my

behavior doesn't ring true, he slips in one "likely scum" comment about CES and Ether, and votes for CES.
His tactic is obvious: Push a mislynch against CES, push a mislynch against Ether (or Thesp/MGM, if one of them becomes more opportune), then go all-out against me in endgame.

If you think I'm a dirty birdy, MBL, I demand that you put your money where your mouth is right now. Don't save me for endgame. Lynch me

today

. I dare you.

In fact, I'm going to suggest to the rest of the town that we lynch one of MBL/me today. It's obvious that there is a scumbag who was

astute

enough to notice that Fritz -- not Glork -- was the last power role remaining, because Fritz -- not Glork -- was killed last night. I acknowledged having recognized FritzCop yesterday. MBL has acknowledged having thought about the Cop situation yesterday (though he'd probably try to pass it off as me being "obvious" with my Cop-tells). We are both very, very observant players. It is extraordinarily likely that one of us is a scumbag.

[Glork]

Ooh, this post is a good one, too.

[Jack]

I think the argument about "you were wrong in the past" " no that's a misrepresentation blah" is really not on topic and unimportant. There haven't been enough games to draw conclusions from, peoples ability to read other people improves over time, etc. MBL, you can't claim that glork

can't

think you are scum when you are scum. The avenue of defense you've chosen sidesteps other accusations.

[Glork]

In other words, MBL is avoiding the important issues and going off on side-tangents in an attempt to obfuscate the case on him. Ergo, MBL is scummy. Ergo, he is probably scum.

[petroleumjelly]

Official Day Four Vote Count

Kinetic – 3 – BillyTwilight, MrBuddyLee, Jack

MrBuddyLee – 2 – Glork, Kinetic

With

10

alive, it takes

6

to lynch!

Not Voting – 5 – AlyG, mole, Shteven, The Central Scrutinizer, Yosarian2

[Jack]

In other words, MBL is avoiding the important issues and going off on side-tangents in an attempt to obfuscate the case on him. Ergo, MBL is scummy. Ergo, he is probably scum.

Precisely.

[Glork]

And yet you think Kinetic is likely Mafia enough that lynching him is preferrable to lynching MBL?

[Jack]

Clearly. Also, there's a good chance of the mafia killing mbl tonight.

[Yosarian2]

As to you MBL, I understand what you're trying to accomplish with that question. One, you want to try and humiliate me away from voting you. You are trying to say "Well if you can't do this then you're scum, so no one should believe you." Two, you think that no matter what argument I make, you'll find some way to break it down and call me scum because of SOMETHING. and Three, it will be a huge distraction from you. That is all that I see in the people attacking me and trying to wagon me right now, a huge smokescreen, a distraction, and I refuse to participate.

This is the worst paragraph I have ever seen posted in a mafia game. Congratulations. Ostriches around the world will flock to your book if you can rush it to market before Christmas.

...wow, that sentance really fits well into Kinetic's "YOu're trying to humiliate me away from voting you" theory, heh.

[Kinetic]

Clearly. Also, there's a good chance of the mafia killing mbl tonight.

Is that an... admission?

[Glork]

Yos, could you post some more detailed thoughts on.... well, just about everyone? I'd like to know what's going through your head right now.

[MrBuddyLee]

If you thought sarc was more likely scum you'd push him over yb as sk. You've been defending yourself with this crappy kind of logic all day.

Jack, did you bother to read my post? I asked SPECIFICALLY in relation to me as mafia, ignoring the possibility of SK. A few of you think there's a significant chance that I'm actually Mafia, which I see as way off-base and a borderline braindead opinion. Not once have I said that my scumhunting genius precludes me being SK, so you can take your accusations of craplogic and stuff them.

[MrBuddyLee]

I think the argument about "you were wrong in the past" " no that's a misrepresentation blah" is really not on topic and unimportant. There haven't been enough games to draw conclusions from, peoples ability to read other people improves over time, etc. MBL, you can't claim that glork

can't

think you are scum when you are scum. The avenue of defense you've chosen sidesteps other accusations.

In other words, MBL is avoiding the important issues and going off on side-tangents in an attempt to obfuscate the case on him. Ergo, MBL is scummy. Ergo, he is probably scum.

Precisely.

I think an ad hominem is appropriate here considering the absurdity of your stances here. You guys are retarded.

Glork has cooked up one of the shittiest metagames I've ever seen, in which he tries to convince you guys that he's this swami at reading MBL and that when I'm 3rd or 4th vote on scum D3/D4/D5 that I'm most likely busing a scumpartner.

Being a very good townie, I know that more often than not, when I'm alive D3/D4/D5 I'm voting scum and staying off mislynches of innocent townies. Which is precisely Glork's metagame that has him and 2-3 of you believing I'm scum in this game.

I defend myself by saying 1) the metagame is retarded and 2) Glork's ability to read me is utter shit, and you try to tell me that this defense is not on topic and unimportant? That I'm avoiding other accusations? I'll go back and see if there are any legitimate accusations that have been ignored, but for the most part, TCS, Jack and Kinetic sheeped onto Glork's idiotwagon of me specifically because of Glork's metagame in relation to Moses and Face to Face. Me calling Glork an incompetent metagamer is DIRECTLY relevant and in response to the wagon that was on me.

I'd like to say I'll laugh at Glork for sucking if I get lynched, but truth is I won't. I'll be pissed if that happens because it'll mean I wasn't good enough of a mafia player to convince you lot not to follow an inaccurate bloviator.

[Yosarian2]

Yos, could you post some more detailed thoughts on.... well, just about everyone? I'd like to know what's going through your head right now.

Right now? Not much, beyond my 101 degree feaver. But I'll try to put some thoughts down on paper, sorry if they come out a bit incoherent.

I hope AlyG gets caught up soon, though I understand he's got a lot to catch up on. Note that A. There was an innocent result on him from Glork, so he's not the goon and B. as InHim vanished on Augest 27'th and was not replaced until September 7th, it seems somewhat unlikely that he was the SK . Nonetheless, I was suspicious of InHim earlier, and AlyG could very easily be the Godfather.

MBL: High chance of being the SK. I'll have to read over what he did during the sarc thing yesterday before I come to any conclusion about him being mafia are. He's acting hella scummy today, certanly.

YogurtBandit (or, I guess, now he's Mole): Looked quite scummy earlier in this game. The way the Yogurt wagons have gone, with him suddenly not being lynched and a scum being lynched in his place, seem to make him look kind of townie, I guess...hmmm....is that as strong an argument as people are making it out to be? I mean, is it possible that the town was right about both Yogurt and Sarc yesterday? That would probably mean that bussing scum were on one and/or both wagons, but I don't see that as a problem...I would definatly expect scum to be willing to bus Yogurt, no question. I donno.

Jack: I've been getting pro-town vibes from him.

Kinetic: I think he's a reasonable lynch for today. The only thing that makes me wonder was that thing I mentioned about him seeming more calm and collected then this as scum, but as that's the only completed game I've played with him (I think?), I'm not going to pretend to have some kind of Kinetic metagame wisdom.

Glork: Is almost certanly a pro-town cop.

TCS: Hmmm, looking back at his last few posts, this seems odd.

unvote

because Kinetic is on this wagon.

I agree with Glork. While I find Kinetic scummy the wagon on him looks like nothing more than bald opportunism.

There's no direct contradiction there, as he threw in that "while I think Kinetic is scummy..." line, but it seems like such a HUGE jump to go from "I don't ever want to have my vote in the same place as Kinetic" to "I don't like this wagon on Kinetic" just between September 7th to September 9th. Could you explain what, exactally, you found so "opportuinistc" about the Kinetic wagon there?

I don't really feel like I have any kind of read or even helpful observations on either Shteven or Billy right now. None of their recent posts have set off any major alarm bells for me, nor have they done anything to make me convinced either one is town.

[MrBuddyLee]

Here's Jack's stated case against me as SK: (he apparently thinks Kinetic is scum and needs to die before me)

I haven't seen any scummy posts from him, the only think scummy thing is his lurking but that's not a huge tell.

In conjunction with the MoS kill though, it's more suspicious, looks like mbl thought that he'd given a clue to his being the sk with that mini-fos post and wanted to counteract that. Nightkills make sense, meta is interesting

MBL's first few posts after getting back were horribly scummy.

Glork's accusation is convincing, and pointed out several things I hadn't noticed about your posts before.

I get the feeling you were sorry you'd posted that you were suspicious of MoS when you killed him, and worried people would finger you based on that.

Your posts talking about the sk feel like you are trying to distance yourself from the role in this light. I can see you making the kills you did and glorks opinion that this is how you playstyle as scum doesn't help you

First of all, let me get this straight.
I posted the following on D1:

You haven't touched or analyzed their play AT ALL since. And you're dinking around on me. If I die and turn up town, you're going to get DESTROYED tomorrow. Get it together, man, or keep up the crap play if you're scum.

mFOS: MoS

So you're saying the following:
1) Knowing that MoS was scum, this is a post more likely made by an SK than by an astute townie.
2) You're saying I NKed MoS and afterwards was sorry I posted suspicions of MoS and somehow took some action to counteract that? What action are you referring to?
3) You're saying that despite the fact that I publicly exposed MoS as likely scum D1, that I was more likely than any other player to act upon my comments and choose to NK MoS? That no one else likely took into account the HUGE scumtell I spotted and decided MoS was a good person to get rid of?

Moving on, you say the nightkills make sense if I am the SK. I agree, if I was the SK, I would have strongly considered killing at least a few of those people. MoS for scumminess, Autumn for being on my tail, and Huck for being significantly scummy. Considering that I've been vocal all game about SKishness, doesn't it also make sense that the actual SK might decide to pin some kills on me? I mean, they're almost too good a fit for the "MBL is SK" story. You can respond, "sure MBL, that's great WIFOM" but seriously, an SK can't afford to attract that kind of suspicion AT ALL or they will DIE at the hands of scum or a lynch. So yeah, sure, you can try to convince yourself that I'm the highest profile SK ever in a 25 person game, and I can try to convince you that's WAY too much risk for any sane SK to try and endure. They have to survive about 12-13 killshots, and I'll tell you, putting their head on the block like I have is NOT the way to survive 12-13 killshots. You say that my posts talking about an SK feel like distancing. Thank you for accusing me of being the sloppiest SK self-distancer ever, I appreciate the compliment.

You say the first few posts I made after getting back were horribly scummy. I wouldn't take tremendous issue with that, because I essentially raced to get back in the game and contribute something. I passed along some gut feelings and some genuine angry reactions to Glork's insulting metagame of my play. Take them for what they're worth.

Finally, your last few chunks of argument nod sagely in agreement with Glork's observations without going into any detail about which points you agree with and which you don't. That's weaksauce and will allow you to point the finger lamely at Glork on the offchance I go down in flames as a townie:

Damn Glork, guess your metagame really did suck ass. Way to lead us all astray.

But... you didn't have to agree with me.

Oh cmon, you were AWFULLY CONVINCING! And you're GLORK!

Jack, what I'd really like to hear from you are five things:
1) After I post an upcoming detailed analysis of the Sarc vs YBwagon, I'd like you to assess how likely it is that I was scum busing Sarc.
2) I'd like you to explain why even though all players had access to my comments about MoS, that I was the most likely person to kill him N1.
3) Please clarify what tapdancing I did re: my mFOS of MoS.
4) I'd like you to dissect Glork's argument about me being scum and state which points you agree with and which you don't.
5) Do you see my attacks on MoS as busing AT ALL?

[Jack]

If you thought sarc was more likely scum you'd push him over yb as sk. You've been defending yourself with this crappy kind of logic all day.

Jack, did you bother to read my post? I asked SPECIFICALLY in relation to me as mafia, ignoring the possibility of SK. A few of you think there's a significant chance that I'm actually Mafia, which I see as way off-base and a borderline braindead opinion. Not once have I said that my scumhunting genius precludes me being SK, so you can take your accusations of craplogic and stuff them.

This is what I meant by sidestepping. Why on earth would I care about how likely you are to be mafia? I've been accusing you of being sk as you note in your latest post. This is irrelevant. For what it's worth, we don't know yb's alignment (I think there's a good chance he's scum) so you have no proof of you being non-mafia.

[Jack]

I think the argument about "you were wrong in the past" " no that's a misrepresentation blah" is really not on topic and unimportant. There haven't been enough games to draw conclusions from, peoples ability to read other people improves over time, etc. MBL, you can't claim that glork

can't

think you are scum when you are scum. The avenue of defense you've chosen sidesteps other accusations.

In other words, MBL is avoiding the important issues and going off on side-tangents in an attempt to obfuscate the case on him. Ergo, MBL is scummy. Ergo, he is probably scum.

Precisely.

I think an ad hominem is appropriate here considering the absurdity of your stances here. You guys are retarded.

Glork has cooked up one of the shittiest metagames I've ever seen, in which he tries to convince you guys that he's this swami at reading MBL and that when I'm 3rd or 4th vote on scum D3/D4/D5 that I'm most likely busing a scumpartner.

Being a very good townie, I know that more often than not, when I'm alive D3/D4/D5 I'm voting scum and staying off mislynches of innocent townies. Which is precisely Glork's metagame that has him and 2-3 of you believing I'm scum in this game.

I defend myself by saying 1) the metagame is retarded and 2) Glork's ability to read me is utter shit, and you try to tell me that this defense is not on topic and unimportant? That I'm avoiding other accusations? I'll go back and see if there are any legitimate accusations that have been ignored, but for the most part, TCS, Jack and Kinetic sheeped onto Glork's idiotwagon of me specifically because of Glork's metagame in relation to Moses and Face to Face. Me calling Glork an incompetent metagamer is DIRECTLY relevant and in response to the wagon that was on me.

I'd like to say I'll laugh at Glork for sucking if I get lynched, but truth is I won't. I'll be pissed if that happens because it'll mean I wasn't good enough of a mafia player to convince you lot not to follow an inaccurate bloviator.

I didn't sheep onto the wagon because of the metagame, and glork didn't vote you entirely based on metagame. You are misrepresenting us, and taking an easy to defend position (since I don't think any of us are going to go and read all the games you've been in with glork). Defending yourself against the metagame is fine, but you were ignoring the rest.

[Kinetic]

I'll tell you the truth, I really don't like certain "attitudes" and "points" that Jack has presented...

First he things that the mafia will "obviously" kill MBL. He's so sure he doesn't even put down any reasoning.

However, in my opinion, the Mafia have a lot more to worry about from Glork than MBL at this point. Glork can really only find one of their goons. The SK, for all he cares, might not even worry about Glork. He can't hurt him.

Now if MBL is the SK, like Jack thinks, then why does he think that Mafia will go after MBL? If I am mafia, I'm either the Godfather (which would eliminate 3 other people from possibly being it.) and thus immune to Glork's inevitable investigation (Well, that depends if MBL is lynched and what he comes up as. If he's mafia I think Glork won't investigate me. If he's SK I think he will. Not trying to direct you, just guessing out loud.)

To tell you the honest truth, MBL has more to worry about if he's mafia about being NKed by the SK then if he's the SK. I see Glork as higher priority in the mafia's eyes. While if MBL is alive tonight that means I've been most likely lynched. We go into day 5 with 4-5 townies, 1-2 mafia, and the SK. But basically, it all boils down to if the SK hits MBL and he's Mafia or not. If I'm lynched, and MBL isn't mafia, we're looking at 4 townies, 2 mafia, and 1 SK. If he is, we're at a much more manageable 5 townies, 1 mafia, 1 SK. Also, depending on which mafia MBL is, we could possibly eliminate up to 3 people from the last mafia pool.

So, all-in-all, IF MBL is the SK, he doesn't need to worry about NKs right now. Mafia are most likely not going to target him. If he is Mafia, he does.

So Jack, if you TRULY believe that MBL is SK and you are not mafia, then by this logic MBL IS the lynch for today.

[Kinetic]

EMWOP: Bleh, started a point then didn't finish it. The whole paragraph is posted here as it was in my head.

Now if MBL is the SK, like Jack thinks, then why does he think that Mafia will go after MBL? If I am mafia, I'm either the Godfather (which would eliminate 3 other people from possibly being it.) and thus immune to Glork's inevitable investigation (Well, that depends if MBL is lynched and what he comes up as. If he's mafia I think Glork won't investigate me. If he's SK I think he will. Not trying to direct you, just guessing out loud.) or I'm a grunt, and then taking a huge risk in being noticed by Glork and possibly drawing his investigation. Glork hasn't been choosing his investigations based on his own judgment (Shteven and MBL might already be investigated if so), but because of last minute quips or quotes at the end of the day he thinks might lead to a scum tell.

[Jack]

Moving on, you say the nightkills make sense if I am the SK. I agree, if I was the SK, I would have strongly considered killing at least a few of those people. MoS for scumminess, Autumn for being on my tail, and Huck for being significantly scummy.

Good.

Considering that I've been vocal all game about SKishness, doesn't it also make sense that the actual SK might decide to pin some kills on me? I mean, they're almost too good a fit for the "MBL is SK" story. You can respond, "sure MBL, that's great WIFOM" but seriously, an SK can't afford to attract that kind of suspicion AT ALL or they will DIE at the hands of scum or a lynch. So yeah, sure, you can try to convince yourself that I'm the highest profile SK ever in a 25 person game, and I can try to convince you that's WAY too much risk for any sane SK to try and endure. They have to survive about 12-13 killshots, and I'll tell you, putting their head on the block like I have is NOT the way to survive 12-13 killshots. You say that my posts talking about an SK feel like distancing. Thank you for accusing me of being the sloppiest SK self-distancer ever, I appreciate the compliment.

sure, MBL, that's great wifom. Seriously man, saying you know it's wifom doesn't help. But the thing that's important from here is your mentioning that the SK must keep a low profile. This is what I think you were trying to do. You mentioned suspicion on MoS: you thought he was scum. You nightkilled him; he was scum. Now you worry that the mafia will have noticed you and think you are sk. So you do the sk distancing. You claim it's sloppy, but I don't think it is sloppy. You use the wifom argument before, why ignore it now?

You say the first few posts I made after getting back were horribly scummy. I wouldn't take tremendous issue with that, because I essentially raced to get back in the game and contribute something. I passed along some gut feelings and some genuine angry reactions to Glork's insulting metagame of my play. Take them for what they're worth.

Good.

Finally, your last few chunks of argument nod sagely in agreement with Glork's observations without going into any detail about which points you agree with and which you don't. That's weaksauce and will allow you to point the finger lamely at Glork on the offchance I go down in flames as a townie:

One, I'm pushing for someone elses lynch. Two, as you've just gotten done quoting all my posts that don't have anything to do with glorks metagame, this is clearly false.

1) After I post an upcoming detailed analysis of the Sarc vs YBwagon, I'd like you to assess how likely it is that I was scum busing Sarc.
2) I'd like you to explain why even though all players had access to my comments about MoS, that I was the most likely person to kill him N1.
3) Please clarify what tapdancing I did re: my mFOS of MoS.
4) I'd like you to dissect Glork's argument about me being scum and state which points you agree with and which you don't.
5) Do you see my attacks on MoS as busing AT ALL?

1) Irrelevant, as I said before
2) It's possible others would. Your comments day 2 are what make the link as I've said.
3) Don't know what you mean by tapdancing, but I explained what I think about the mfos.
4) I've stated my argument.
5) irrelevant again

[Jack]

@Kinetic: imo you have a 50% chance of being the goon. If we lynch you as goon, then glork is no threat. I think the gf would worry about the kill and kill mbl, and it's possible that mbl would kill the gf. This situation is advantageous to us. If your the gf then they'll kill glork of course, that's why I said "good chance".

Will you post the rest of your notes?

[MrBuddyLee]

Glork: Could be teamscum or SK. That being said he was rather pivotal to getting Sarcastro lynched, and with one of the doctors saying they protected him and a mafia no kill, we have too many inconsistencies.

I was also pivotal to getting Sarc lynched... in fact moreso than Glork, yet you used that point in defense of Glork and you used it to accuse me of being scum. Inconsistent much?

I also found it odd how you(Kinetic) didn't comment at all on your mislynch of Guardian at the start of today. No remorse, no "oh well, he was a dumbass". You were the most strident attacker of Guardian, chided him relentlessly for his terrible play, and then not a comment to start today? Looks significantly avoidant.

So now when I realized Guardian had to be lynched again, honestly I was trying to explain to him how much of a fuck up he made. I didn't think anyone else was going to at least do that for him, since he REALLY didn't understand exactly how big of a deal this was. So I wanted him to completely understand I really didn't want to do this, but for the betterment of the town I had to. Hell, that is among the reasons why I held my vote for as long as I did and tried to deny doing it...

It sounds here like you really didn't think Guardian was scum. Yesterday you said you thought there was a 75% chance he was scum. Dissonance.

I wasn't sure Glork was cop until Mana came up dead. As soon as that happened I did this equation in my head:

Mana is the only doc. Glork was the scum target N2. Guardian wasn't the scum target because there is no 2nd doc. Glork cannot be mafia. Glork must be cop.

Why couldn't Glork be the SK in this equation? Because YOU'RE the SK?

Its much more likely he's SK, but there isn't no chance he's mafia either.

If MBL does come up mafiascum (or even Godfather, like I'm thinking now)

BT looks like a Goon trying to defend MBL, who I'm now convinced is the Godfather.

So, Kinetic, you went from thinking I was "much more likely SK" to "Godfather, like I'm thinking now" in a span of 47 minutes? And then became entirely convinced over the next 24 hours? I'd love to hear the thought process behind that shift of opinion.

Side note: mild town tone in between the lines of Kinetic's posts. Ugh.

[Kinetic]

@Kinetic: imo you have a 50% chance of being the goon. If we lynch you as goon, then glork is no threat. I think the gf would worry about the kill and kill mbl, and it's possible that mbl would kill the gf. This situation is advantageous to us. If your the gf then they'll kill glork of course, that's why I said "good chance".

Will you post the rest of your notes?

Bleh, I really don't want to >> I haven't updated them at all since the beginning of this day, and honestly they were only a reference so that I could keep all the people in this game apart in my head so I didn't confuse them with either other games or with each other. (During my re-read I kept interchanging your posts and BT's posts near the beginning, ugh).

Not to mention I don't normally take notes... for anything. School, class, etc. I'm really bad at taking them. I've already been made fun of once because of them in this game, and I really don't like that. If you MUST see them, bleh, I'll post them. But do you really need to?