Mini 474 - Bergamo Bump-Off (Game Over!)


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Post Post #650 (ISO) » Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:35 pm

Post by Hjallti »

@Aimee: could you specify which
actions
of me you find scummy? Thusfar you only thought I was scummy for the
lack of actions
, as I understand it. The only way for me to proof that is wrong (apart from again explaining that this is a hell of game to read, from my first two games I really thought playing 5 games a time was feasable, but with games like this I won't do that anymore), is to be more active and scumhunting, but rereading this game is not possible for me today, but I hope to do it in the near future.

I do think this is the right vote, so if someone would take away a vote VH still dies, at deadline.

vote: VampaneseHunter



****************************************************

9th Vote Count of Day 2


Nelly632 - 1 (somestrangeflea)
VampaneseHunter - 4 (SeraphicMirth, vampyrusddg, Aimee, Hjallti)

Aimee - 1 (death_omen)
Muerrto - 1 (Nelly632)


Not Voting - 3 (Karen, Muerrto, VampaneseHunter)

6 to Lynch before deadline, 3 at deadline
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Post Post #651 (ISO) » Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:37 am

Post by Aimee »

Hjallti, in my post I said this about you:
Aimee wrote:Hjallti has bizarrely been very quiet this game. In a previous game I was in with him, he was doing far more scum-hunting, and he was town. Here, I see a more relaxed approach without scum-hunting. Not scum-hunting is scummy. I don’t like his summary in post 210, since it is literally a summary – he doesn’t analyse anything, and therefore barely gives any opinion. I also wrote that he was hiding behind the discussions and feuds, like Vampy, and I see this as a very viable scum strategy. Hide behind others, and keep in the background. I don’t like his analysis in post 326 either – he doesn’t seem to be doing any scum hunting there either.

His Day 2 behaviour is puzzling. He just jumps on the Nelly wagon WITH NO REASON on post 365. Blatant bandwagoning, and scummy. He is interestingly is very defensive about the above vote, even though he gave no reasoning. And his post 427 is awful. He says he finds Muerrto, Ples, SM and SSF town (giving no reasons), says Omen is shaky after recent posts, says Malc is a newb, and that Vampaneze and vampy need to get into the game. Er, you haven’t been scum hunting the entire time. Sorry, that’s really hypocritical. I’m confused about his view on Nelly here too.

So overall, there is no scum-hunting, nothing. Hjallti has been hiding, and nothing has been done about it. The time has come for Hjallti to start looking for scum.
So to summarise:

1. Post 210, which is a summary and gives no scum-hunting.
2. Post 326 - no scum-hunting.
3. I said you were hiding behind the feuds on Day 1, but you may have been genuinely lurking. I shall check whether or not you were online or absent during those times.
4. Jumping on the Nelly bandwagon in Post 365 with no reasoning, and then getting defensive about this.
5. Post 427, where your opinions on the players are clear, yet without reasoning. (With the exception of Nelly, where I don't find your opinion clear.)

Also:
Large FoS: Hjallti


I checked back, and you have given no thoughts of suspicion on VH. Since your post also gives no reasons, I see your vote as highly opportunistic.
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Post Post #652 (ISO) » Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:55 am

Post by vampyrusddg »

Just a quick check in to say I'll be back online properly next Wednesday (hopefuly) :)

I may be able to get on again before the house is conneected, but I'm leaving my vote where it is because I feel VH is our best bet at the moment and I don't want to hit the deadline without a lynch.

If theres no further extension and I don't make it back to public acsess again before (5 or 6 mile walk from the new place :( ) I'll see you all on day 3
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Post Post #653 (ISO) » Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:31 am

Post by VampanezeHunter »

@Seraph: I won't quit Mafiascum because of you or anyone else in this game. But I'm considering it.
"...Unvote you Moran..."- SomeStrangeFlea
"...Lag is so much worse in real life than in computer games, if you don't believe me then look at Jesus--it took him three *days* to respawn after he died..."- Khelvaster.
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Post Post #654 (ISO) » Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:31 am

Post by VampanezeHunter »

EBWOP: Quitting that is.
"...Unvote you Moran..."- SomeStrangeFlea
"...Lag is so much worse in real life than in computer games, if you don't believe me then look at Jesus--it took him three *days* to respawn after he died..."- Khelvaster.
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Post Post #655 (ISO) » Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:45 am

Post by Hjallti »

These are some thing my eye caught, I will normally have tomorrow the time to communicate what I think of it after thinking over this at night, and seeing the reactions.

@ death_omen

sees but doesn't explain a plessiez-malchonn (Aimee) connection: at least one of them is certainly scum. Why do you think this?

Hyphen-ated SeraphicMirth

great scumhunting towards VH
keeps cool when Nelly is pressured to avoid the hammer.

Malchonn Aimee

Aimee enters with great analysis. I don't understand the metagaming she does on me really. I admit I have been laid back much more in this game. This has some reasons next to RL, the large posts and contents, the fact there are much better scumhunters around, being much more careful after getting nightkilled for scumhunting all the time.... Anyway, I will try to get much more in the game from now

Muerrto

Goes far to get Nelly voted off. I think it was townlike to that from his perspective I like his posts, but that is a playstyle comment not a protown comment ofcourse.

Plessiez

first to really get a big analyse of the game
tries to get Nelly to play the game well when he feels Nelly plays bad-town. (503) I think protown

somestrangeflea

oneliners, not really a read of him

VampanezeHunter

strange inconsistent play
considering that VH is a prime suspect, this might be an interesting link:
VH (516) wrote: EBWOP: Unvote Don't want to put nelly at L-1
afterwards he keeps this up (example 542) with some 'i will hammer if loads tell me to', which is strange since if loads want to see the hammer some of this loads won't have voted yet and could hammer themselfs. This might aswell be seen as a towntell from VH if Nelly is town himself, although you can WIFOM that argument away, but I don't see VH strong enough to make the WIFOM on this. On the other hand this argument is not a full proof of the equivalent statements
statement 1 wrote:VH scum then Nelly scum
and
statement 2 wrote:Nelly town then VH town
vampyrusddg

lurking, as scummy as I am :-) (seeing (mafia 67) that some people miss this kind of comments, this is a joke)

WeyounsLastClone Nelly632

getting frustrated and even selfvoting because of suspicions
after 500 making absolutely no sense whatsoever, untill he decided to play again.
Nelly632 wrote:he reason for me saying I was Vanilla Townie was to get it out of the way since it is obvious alot of people in this game would like to know a persons role before lynching them.

It seems you still don't understand the whole RC argument. This a good, since it makes your speed hammer acceptable to me (as it is clear that the experienced players are convinced it was anti town to do so but you apparently thought it was pro town). but maybe you should try to understand why a RC is important
sometimes
, and not
always
as you seem to believe people do believe.
It is bad for town to loose a power role. If someone with a power role (let's say Doc, or Vig) is lynched the loss for town is much bigger. Noone asked you to roleclaim, but you seem to assume that they did. The point is that if you have a power role and you are about to lynched you should roleclaim, to give the town the chance to change their minds. Of course the RC will have to be tested.
Nelly wrote:Assuming I allowed Khelvaster to Role Claim before I Hammered him and he stated that he was simply a Townie. Which is exactly what he would have claimed if given a chance, he would not have claimed Vig. Would you be attacking me as much over my Hammer & if yes why?
No he simply wouldn't have claimed rather than claiming Vanilla, unless someone would have said: 'please claim' and he did it. He would have been hammered and nobody would have talked about the hammer
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Post Post #656 (ISO) » Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:52 am

Post by death_omen »

Has anyone noticed that Nelly has really slipped under the radar as suspicion has been cast of him. I dont really get what he did to get everyone of his case. So I'm gonna re-instate:

Unvote

Vote: Nelly632
The journey to your destination is often much more important than the destination itself.
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Post Post #657 (ISO) » Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:28 am

Post by VampanezeHunter »

When I am finished with this games I probably will quit mafia. Anyways I agree there with D_O We hae kinda let Nelly off the hook, so to speak. Also when was his last post?
"...Unvote you Moran..."- SomeStrangeFlea
"...Lag is so much worse in real life than in computer games, if you don't believe me then look at Jesus--it took him three *days* to respawn after he died..."- Khelvaster.
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Post Post #658 (ISO) » Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:29 pm

Post by Nelly632 »

Has anyone noticed that Nelly has really slipped under the radar as suspicion has been cast of him. I dont really get what he did to get everyone of his case. So I'm gonna re-instate:

Unvote
Vote: Nelly632
When I am finished with this games I probably will quit mafia. Anyways I agree there with D_O We hae kinda let Nelly off the hook, so to speak. Also when was his last post?

Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 4:35 pm Post subject: 598

I believe the post above answers all of your questions.
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Post Post #659 (ISO) » Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:55 pm

Post by Muerrto »

Basically I'm not sure what to say. I wanna call out Hjalti for all of a sudden suspecting VH when he'd just about never mentioned him the whole game, but that'll be seen as a defense of VH and I'm not convinced enough he's town to stick my neck out like that.

Still, Hjalti was against DO in the start, then Khel when the DO thing died, then Nelly, now VH. And if you notice in his latest post he also threw suspiscion on me. He seems to be following every single wagon so far and that bothers me.

As for Nelly, sorry, if I'm sheltering him then so be it. His last post that he quoted above was what I was looking for 3 pages and seemed sincere enough for me to back off him. He was tested and passed and I won't be voting him. I could of course be sheltering another scum under a 'newbie' sign but his post didn't sound like that. I'm sure he's learned his lesson about hammers and RC's.

As for DO voting Aimee because she used to be Malchonn and DO's investigation got blocked and he was investigating Malchonn? I'm not even touching that. I'd love to see someone come up with a valid argument there.
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Post Post #660 (ISO) » Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:20 pm

Post by Hjallti »

Muerrto wrote: And if you notice in his (=Hj) latest post he also threw suspiscion on me. He seems to be following every single wagon so far and that bothers me.
About Muerrto I wrote: I think it was townlike to that from his perspective I like his posts, but that is a playstyle comment not a protown comment ofcourse.
I guess this is another example of those small twists. I like that way of playing as well as a matter of fact. the only thing I have to do here is that I made NO comment whatsoever to indicated that Muerrto would be antitown. I just said that liking the way Muerrto is playing, is not really saying he is protown for this, which just means I don't want to call that a towntell. Saying I would have suggested it being a scumtell is twisting this. I just want to call it a neutral comment.

This is a hard game to play for a newbie. There is much content and people are accusing, getting accused and defending all along. I try to keep up with the discussions and sometimes I get convinced by arguments. If you want to see this a 'going' with the flow rather than giving new content, it is probably true. It isn't a scumtell however, Aimee keeps up saying I do more scumhunting when I am town. There are 4 games where my alignment is knows. 3 town and 1 scum. Well I did scumhunting in All 4. If you want to do metagaming Aimee, do it sincerely. Before my death in urban dead there was no proof whatsoever to my playstyle as scum. so you might claim to have done it sincerely.
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Post Post #661 (ISO) » Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:56 am

Post by Aimee »

Hjallti wrote:If you want to do metagaming Aimee, do it sincerely. Before my death in urban dead there was no proof whatsoever to my playstyle as scum. so you might claim to have done it sincerely.
Oh I agree, it was only a passing remark. It's not at all one of my reasons why I'm suspicious of you.

Now, Hjallti, before the deadline, I'd like you to answer the following questions. I actually liked your analysis, but here were some things you didn't say:

1) What's your actual opinion of death_omen. I never saw what you commented about him, but do you think he is scum or town?
2) Are you happy with your vote on VampanezeHunter?
3) Similarly, do you find Nelly more likely to be scum or town?
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Post Post #662 (ISO) » Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:56 am

Post by Muerrto »

Hjallti wrote:
Muerrto wrote: And if you notice in his (=Hj) latest post he also threw suspiscion on me. He seems to be following every single wagon so far and that bothers me.
About Muerrto I wrote: I think it was townlike to that from his perspective I like his posts, but that is a playstyle comment not a protown comment ofcourse.
I guess this is another example of those small twists. I like that way of playing as well as a matter of fact. the only thing I have to do here is that I made NO comment whatsoever to indicated that Muerrto would be antitown. I just said that liking the way Muerrto is playing, is not really saying he is protown for this, which just means I don't want to call that a towntell. Saying I would have suggested it being a scumtell is twisting this. I just want to call it a neutral comment.
Ok, then we'll chalk this up to a misunderstanding. No offense, but since your english isn't perfect it's pretty easy to read that last part a different way and that's the way I read it. No twist intended.
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Games - 31
Town - Win=9, Loss=10
Mafia - Win=5, Loss=4
Abondoned = 3

I feel for the rest of the players every time I get a town PM.
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Post Post #663 (ISO) » Fri Sep 07, 2007 7:57 am

Post by Vel-Rahn Koon »

Karen replaces Plessiez effective immediately!

We're back to full strength.
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Post Post #664 (ISO) » Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:00 am

Post by Karen »

i am alive!

can we get a votecount?

what in the world is an "inventor?"
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Post Post #665 (ISO) » Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:03 am

Post by Vel-Rahn Koon »

Vote Count has been posted in the topmost thread of this page.

Inventor Wiki Entry:

http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Inventor

Also see Mike Burnfire's flash animation of the various Mafia Roles:

http://mikeburnfire.sitesled.com/mscumB.swf
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Post Post #666 (ISO) » Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:27 am

Post by somestrangeflea »

Aimee wrote:I’m curious about post 125 as well. He had earlier said that Omen was the play of the day, but when asked to explain this merely asked Omen why he thought he was the play of the day.
Post 125 was a sarcastically toned post aimed at d_o, to point out that I never actually said that he was the play
of the day
. I think, at the time, everyone else got that.
Aimee wrote:Similarly, I find it odd that in Post 323 he votes for Khel, saying he didn’t like his exchange with Muerrto. Since he had previously been suspicious of Muerrto, why vote for Khelvaster?
In 269/270, I suspect Muerrto more than Khelvaster.
Between 270 and 323, Khelvaster does things which were, IMO, quite scummy.
In 323, I suspect Khelvaster more than Muerrto, and thus vote for Khelvaster.

This is odd, how?
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Post Post #667 (ISO) » Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:38 am

Post by Karen »

it's so hard to catch up, but i think i've done a semi-decent job.

i won't be voting, since the deadline is so close, and i haven't actively participated.

however, i do feel that VampanezeHunter is pro-town (due to his negligence apathy, and lack of fight), and am very suspicious of a bandwagon that all of a sudden has formed on this ONE page alone, when there are 26 others.

VampaneseHunter - 4
(SeraphicMirth, vampyrusddg, Aimee, Hjallti)
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Post Post #668 (ISO) » Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:17 am

Post by Vel-Rahn Koon »

Final Vote Count of Day 2


Nelly632 - 2 (somestrangeflea, death_omen)
VampaneseHunter - 4 (SeraphicMirth, vampyrusddg, Aimee, Hjallti)

Muerrto - 1 (Nelly632)


Not Voting - 3 (Karen, Muerrto, VampaneseHunter)
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Post Post #669 (ISO) » Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:23 am

Post by Vel-Rahn Koon »

Nelly appears at first to be the choice for the day, yet somehow VampaneseHunter comes out with the most votes.

As you lead VampaneseHunter to the gallows, he pushes you all away and puts his own neck in the noose.

As the body sways in the wind, you discover to your delight that you've caught one of the mafia, if the tatoo on his arm has anything to say about it!


VampaneseHunter, Godfather
, Lynched Day 2.



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Post Post #670 (ISO) » Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:04 am

Post by Vel-Rahn Koon »

Seraphic was busy playing with the gadget that she found on her doorstep that morning when a knock sounded at her door. Didn't anyone ever tell her not to answer the door after dark?

SeraphicMirth, Townie
, gunned down Night 2


Aimee had a great time at dinner that night. It was too bad Vampanese was taken out of the picture, but that just leaves room for "upward mobility". It's also too bad she wasn't paying attention when she stepped into the street. The lights of the car caught her attention a second too late...

Aimee, Mafia Goon
, flattened Night 2



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Post Post #671 (ISO) » Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:48 am

Post by death_omen »

REally good guys we struck gold with the godfather on d2 and now with a goon n2. See my suspicion was always good Malchonn (replaced by Aimee) turned out scum.

Whoever the vig/sk is I take my hat of towards them.

More info from me will come in next post. But right now Hijati is the remaining scum for me.
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Post Post #672 (ISO) » Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:48 am

Post by Karen »

i like this.

but, the mod's story line doesn't quite make sense.

anyone have possibly explanations on how Aimee died???

maybe seraphic was like a supersaint role? a bomb role (which seems plausible due to the tinkering on a gadget)?



Do NOT try to infer any information from the storyline! In general, Mods do not write death scenes, etc. with the intent to give out cryptic information as to the setup for the game. If I wanted you to have the info, it would be an open game, not closed.
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Post Post #673 (ISO) » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:29 am

Post by Aimee »

GO SCUM!!!

*Dances* :)
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Post Post #674 (ISO) » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:42 am

Post by Muerrto »

Wow. This brings up some interesting points. Like, if Aimee was scum, then why the HELL did she bus the godfather?

I don't like DO immediately jumping on Hjalti but then again I also put him at the top of my list(Hjalti, not DO) like I said yesterday so I can't fault him too much.

Seraph was just a plain townie as it says in the mod's post and since Khel was our Vig I think we have to assume we have an SK.

Which is quite uncool.

I'm assuming since DO's alive that he was blocked again, yes?


So who's the last scum and who's the SK? I'm gonna have to re-read later when I have more time.
Show
Games - 31
Town - Win=9, Loss=10
Mafia - Win=5, Loss=4
Abondoned = 3

I feel for the rest of the players every time I get a town PM.

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