Mafia 64: The New "C9" - Game over!

[The Central Scrutinizer]

To the scum who are attempting to sow the seeds for later building a shitwagon on me, and to the townies they may deceive: it makes much more sense to go after people who are not

investigated innocents

than those who are. TY

[MrBuddyLee]

Analysis, starting with the jackassery more commonly known as the shoddy reasons for presently voting me:

TCS: voted Albert, Twilight, Glork and Guardian all D1. Willing to lynch Shteven, inHim. Says MBL wants to suicide. Votes YB. Thinks Glork's the SK. Lobbies against a Sarc lynch. Says remaining three scum are Glork, Twilight, Huck. Presses YB again, then Twilight. Then sucks up to Twilight, presses Guardian lynch. Then votes MBL for commenting on Glork as possible fake cop.

Summary: the MBL vote is dreadful: out of the blue, not supported by any substantial evidence, ignores ALL his previous suspicions. Total wagonny action. His major presses have been against Albert, Glork and Guardian, all innocents. He defended Sarc and ignored MoS completely.

Caveat: He's "been investigated innocent".


Glork: Major presses against Guardian, Shteven, Guardian. Followed MBL onto Sarcastro immediately after voting MBL. Finds it "highly unlikely" D3 that MBL is a member of the mafia:

I believe that both other Mafiates were off of the Sarcastro-lynch

Said this:

Yos, rationalize for me why it's a good idea for Guardian to fakeclaim Doc as mafia and then hammer his scumbuddy Sarcastro.

then voted this:

Unvote, Vote: Guardian


A townie breadcrumbing to set up a fake doc claim is not an explanation that flies with me. At all. Now it DEFINITELY seems as though he's making things up and changing stories as he goes along.

Then, boasts idly:

I think that HH is very likely Mafia (prolly the last Goon), and that Guardian is the SK. I'm not sure who the Godfather is yet, but after those two are out of the way, we can figure that out.


GG, scums. You've been paragon'd.

How embarrassing.

Votes me today but admits his gut on me is disastrously terrible:

I felt the need to note that reaction because my gut is usually fairly accurate. There are, however, exceptions, and MBL is likely one of those exceptions.

(Never clarified this, as he promised to.)
Claims cop with innocents on inHim, Yos, TCS (at a time when 2/3 remaining scum are inv immune.)

Changes track from earlier (also see above "highly unlikely" quote):

I'm actually trying to decide if MBL makes more sense as the SK or as a Mafiate. I've seen indicators of both

His case for me as a mafiate is backed primarily by this observation:

He has a tendency to bus and to try to act like a turning point against scum. His behavior towards Sarc seemed that way to me.

Which is pretty much the textbook definition of MBL as a good townie. Nice job, ace, you spotted a townie who was early to the wagon on scum. Feather for your cap incoming, crack out next year's trophy for the engraving.

Summary: subtly breadcrumbing cop all game would be a reasonable SK play, but current claim exposes him to more risk than I'd deem optimal as an SK. Currently playing at a way-below-average level with respect to scumhunting. Tried to take credit for the Sarc lynch though the only case he made was: "lurker!", followed me onto Sarc but is currently trying to make the case that I was scum trying to appear like the momentum-swinging vote on Sarc. Didn't touch MoS. Has wavered dramatically on whether I could be mafia or not. Pretty much your run-in-the-mill shoddy player this game, currently breathing heavily in the dark and fantasizing about lynching me. (incorrectly to boot) Claims he chose his N1 inv target RANDOMLY after a 50-page day?

Kinetic(BM)
voted Albert, Guardian, Yogurt, mostly Guardian. Found Glork scummy, Shteven townish. Lurked for two out of 4 months.

Kinetic reread and found the three scum to be: Glork, Manaspryte, Guardian. (SOLID SCUMHUNTING, MATE!)

Meh, I don't disbelieve Mana's claim at this time, I still think it was not the time or place to make it... But I'm still mighty suspicious of Mana at this time.

Weird as hell.

Makes a sizable case against people as scum based on voting patterns. Voting is something that can only be used against mafia, not SK, making this a mild SK tell on Kinetic. First definitive statement:

'm fairly confident TCS is part of the mafia.

Actually took the time to read and understand BM's play across multiple games in an attempt to deflect suspicion of BM's lurking in this game.

Interesting comment considering 2/3 remaining scum are inv-immune:

as I see it, going after the innocent cop results at this time is just a waste in time

And after Yos points out that my Sarcspotting doesn't look like busing:

Glork presented evidence that ML has done just that before, many times. Glork's case pretty much has MBL dead to rights.

Yes, boy genius, I've been #2/3/4 on scumwagons "MANY times". In two games because I was scum. In 20-30 games when I was town. My record as town is outstanding, because I spot and kill scum. To imply that me being in a pivotal spot on a scumwagon is a scumtell on me is not only retarded, it's incredibly insulting and I primarily hold Glork responsible for that slight but Kinetic's weak-minded in this instance for sheeping onto Glork's weak "metagame".

Also, mild "cop" direction:

If you live the night Glork, could you check BT out possibly?

Bad form mate, there's a goon out there with a godfather to protect and you just resembled that remark.

Also, day-after "regrets" that sound like he knew he was lynching a townie:

So now when I realized Guardian had to be lynched again, honestly I was trying to explain to him how much of a fuck up he made. So I wanted him to completely understand I really didn't want to do this, but for the betterment of the town I had to.

Weird.

Jack: pretty much settled on Shteven and inHim as scummy D1/2/3. Didn't find Guardian scummy. Tried to slow down the Guardian lynch. Then changed his mind based on Guardian's flailing. Posted this:

Glork, could you explain your case on MBL? I haven't seen any scummy posts from him, the only think scummy thing is his lurking but that's not a huge tell.

And then voted me in his next post, apparently entirely based on Glork's magnificent Pied Piper impersonation.

Summary: No comments on MoS, mild protection of Sarcastro. Inconsistent opinion of MBL. Decent curiosity and suspicion but rested on laurels and hasn't gotten much in the way of results.

And the guy who FOSed me for thinking Glork's failure to scumhunt this game is a possible scumtell:

Yos has pursued Albert, Glork, Guardian, Yogurt, inHim and Shteven. On me: "In general, I don't get a scum vibe from him." Presses against Glork's massclaim request. Defends yesterday's quicklynch of Guardian:

dragging our feet until every single person in the game has weighed in would just kill the momentum of the game and lower the amount of interest in the game, the particiatpaiton, and therefore the town's chances of winning

Sketch. You believe in lynches on D4 without getting all players to weigh in on them? Absurd and borderline unbelievable--smells like defensiveness over your participation in a shitty lynch.

You just tried to undermine the credibility of Glork, who I think is at least 95% likely to be the cop, with some of the most scummy craplogic I've heard from an experenced player in a mafia game in a long, long time.

You think it's craplogic to point out that the "Paragon" isn't even remotely accurate this game if he's town? I suppose that's correct if you assume that the Paragon's lost his knack on this site. Essentially, what you guys as a whole are telling me is that I'm scum because I'm accurately scumhunting and Glork is not scum though he's sucking at scumhunting. Welcome to bizarro-world, goodbye Occam's Razor.

Oh? How have you played a "very protown game" so far? Please clarify.

self-analysis--MBL: I think my post D1 about MoS's inconsistent suspicions was read by the SK and directly led to the SK killing MoS N1. It was probably the most severe indictment of MoS's play before he died--totally opened him up to chainsawing. In my analysis post yesterday I nailed MB and Guardian as town and Sarcastro as scum. I never OMGUSsed Autumn and ended up concluding correctly that she was misguided, not scum. Basically, in a game with two scum factions remaining, I've been right about the alignments of five of the last six dead players (I made a mild case for Huck as scum). Making me the most accurate scumhunter in the game at the moment, and I have 4 votes on me. gg, geniuses.

[Jack]

MBL's first few posts after getting back were horribly scummy. Kinetic is seeming wicked scummy too. Will try to get some reading in this weekend.

[Jack]

unvote

I think I may prefer a kinetic lynch. Will check it out.

[Glork]

I felt the need to note that reaction because my gut is usually fairly accurate. There are, however, exceptions, and MBL is likely one of those exceptions.

No, the exception was to the "scums are unlikely to be on Sarc's wagon" observation I had made.

[BillyTwilight]

Vote:MBL

Fos:BT

If you live the night Glork, could you check BT out possibly?

Hello, OMGUS, how you doin'?

Your caught, squirming skum, Kinetic. But just for giggles, we'll go ahead a tear up your "rebuttal" post.

---

-.- Way to misinterpret everything here. You see, you actually made a grave error in your post. Basically, that most of my mistakes can be attributed to me having to read a 80+ page game in a little under 5 hours. My play is very inconsistent because between almost all my posts on Day 3 I was gaining a HELL of a lot of information, and for the most part I didn't exactly understand it all right away.

I'll try to walk you through it. This will take a while though because I've got to read your post then explain my reasonings and cite my own posts, and possibly posts going back over three days to explain my reasonings...

In addition I didn't exactly read the whole game in order. I was jumping around, target re-reading people I thought were suspect, and constantly trying to not lose what was going on with Day 3...

That includes what was going on with Guardian. The whole shit hit the fan while I was target re-reading Mana, and I had to start the fuck over with a new context, go back and re-read Glork and Guardian

again

, and had a bunch of other shit going on at the same time....

And I'm so annoyed that you post this so late at night >>. I don't want to leave this hanging, and I need to goto sleep. T.T

So, without further adu I'm going to attempt to just explain what was going through my head at the time of my posts and what was going on as best I can without actually finding the specific posts I was reading at the time -.-;

Here goes nothing:

Really, it's a bad idea to rush a post when your scum, Kinetic. Your way to sloppy and overexcited; you sound exactly like scum who thought they were looking clean, got hit with a bunch of evidence against them, and quickly tried to fire back without taking the time to compose a decent defense. The basic premise of your defense is that you were *confused* by the length of the game, and that you were reading and rereading everything out of context, or some such. This of course has nothing to do with your inconsistency regarding Guardian, and little to do with throwing suspicion on Glork, who you claim to have known was a cop already. Your simply squirming WAY too much.

...

Ok, there is actually a specific reason why I started to follow the HH lynch... mainly because Glork was pushing it. It was at about this time I started to suspect that Glork might be the cop. Here are my notes. I haven't yet added anything from this day (Day 4), and the last time I added anything was near the end of Day 3:

0-1 Cop Glork? Would explain why he thinks there are not many power roles left.

.....

12. Glork
I have a strong feeling he might be one of the remaining team scum
No.. He's a power role. Seems possible he's the cop.
Not a mason
Proof he might be the cop below

.....

Having re-examined inHim last night, I no longer believe that he is likely to be scum. I think I was just getting a bit to OMGUSy over his attacks on me. I still don't particularly like them, but I can kindasorta see where he was coming from. I've already put TCS in pretty much the exact same boat.

Glork is the cop!? Inhim is innocent/N2 Target.

Also glork, someone in the general discussion thread said that when you are pro-town you "reek of pro-town". You don't reek of pro-town this game. hmm?

Do you need me to start linking games where people found me scummy but I was town?

I find it rather absurd that you're taking one player's opinion and using it as law to meta me. For the record, the player who said that about me was Zindaras.
1) Zindaras and I have been playing mafia together since before either of us knew what MafiaScum was. I can say with the utmost confidence that there is no other player who can get more out of my posts to get a good read on me.
2) What one player (in this case, Zindaras) believes to be pro-town is not always what another player believes to be pro-town. This statement is proven by simple observation. If everybody thought that the same things were pro-town, all of the townies would agree on every lynch. The fact that there's so much debate in each and every mafia game, even amongst protown players, is testament to the fact that no two players find the same things pro-town or scummy.
**Case in point: My assessment of Albert's play in this very game. He alleged that shameless bandwagoning was a good way of hunting scum. I told him that he was going about it all wrong, that it takes a specific eye for reactions to bandwagons to make such tactics effective, and that even then it's a very dangerous game to play.
**Further case in point: The debate regarding BM's alleged "always scumminess." Some argue that BM is responsible for his actions in each game, regardless of what the meta towards him is. BM asserted that instead of just saying "oh, he's being scummy again, let's vote him" players should be looking at what makes him scum this time around as to the scummy town that he "usually" is.

I grow tired of this charade.

Either Glork or Jack is mafiascum. Explains the immediate Zindy kill. Jack didn't want Zindy confirming Glork or Glork didn't want Zindy outing him.

If you notice here, I'm not

entirely

sure that Glork is the cop. In my opinion there are two possibilities, Glork is either cop or scum. But I'm starting to lean toward cop direction. At this point I'm re-reading Glork, Jack, HH, and Guardian; as well as completely examining the lead-up to the near Guardian lynch on D2.

For the notes: they mean nothing, and can be easily composed at the time of your posting. I would like to point out that, other than the quoted part, they are in the same voice as your post itself is... that is excited, inarticulate, and certainly pretty sloppy. This tells me there is a good chance that you composed them on the spot, or modified existing notes that you did have in order to stay more in line with the story you are giving us.

Also, the reason that I wasn't so gung ho about getting Guardian, for the reason you stated: "Because he would mess up the game if he stayed." Simply, I didn't understand that position yet. If you looked further into the day, when I DID attack Guardian, I realized that. It was one of the main reasons I STAYED on the lynch. Even if Guardian was town, at that point him staying in the game hurt the town. I agreed with that point eventually, I just didn't understand it right away...

Right.... except, NO ONE RAISED THAT POINT UNTIL WELL AFTER YOU VOTED GUARDIAN. As far as I can tell, everything before you voted Guardian was with respect to what the likelyhood of guardian claiming Doc as scum or SK would be. No one made mention of how Guardian still being present in the late to end game could be extremely bad for town. So there are 2 complete inconsistencies here. 1.) You claim you switched your vote from HH to Guardian because other players convinced you that correct game theory required a Guardian lynch. No player made any posts giving this kind of argument between those two votes. 2.) You claim that the game theory that opened your eyes to Guardian needing to be lynched was how having guardian in the game would "mess up the game". I am assuming you mean in the endgame, the point I raised MUCH LATER, after you had already switched your vote. Of course this all means nothing anyway, because you gave your "reason" for voting Guardian when you placed the vote: "I don't like fake drunk Guardian. He's worse at lying when he is pretending to be drunk then when he is trying to be serious." No mention of a change of heart relating to game theory. No mention of why you suddenly found his lynch better than HH's, who you hadn't analyzed before anyway. Your current reasons for the vote switch are completely inconsistent with what actually happened in thread.

...

I'm leaning further toward Glork as possible cop now. In addition, if you noticed my wrap up of why I voted Guardian: Post #2088. I was re-reading Guadian's lynch on Day 2 when he made those posts. I was literally ON THE POSTS he made when he was "drunk" the first time. I noticed him breadcrumbing the doc claim and also him pointing out the breadcrumbs. That was what finally convinced me to vote for him.

So which is it, Kinetic? Did you have a change of heart about Guardian because of his drunk act or because you agreed with some game theory that hadn't been mentioned yet? More backpedaling on knowing Glork was a cop already; still inconsistent. Even if you only thought Glork *might* be a cop, you still had him listed as possibly teamscum or SK. You don't do that with players you think are town power roles

...

That is just not true. I wasn't sure about Guardian yet, so I was following what I thought at the time was GlorkCop. I didn't answer Jack's question for three reasons. 1) Yes, I was re-reading then and noticed Guardian's 'interesting' reaction. By the time I noticed Jack's question I already had unvoted and voted Guardian. 2) I didn't want to explain that I thought Glork was possibly the cop, and I thought he might have a guilty on HH. 3) To Jack he has been in a game that took 1.5 months per lynch, but I was reading the entire game in one sitting... things were just moving faster for me at the time. It didn't seem odd to me that I didn't wait weeks before voting someone new.

Lame. Your vote for HH was on Aug 31. You entered the game the 28th. You had already read the game well enough to make your rather lengthy summary post, which you made on the 30th, a full day before. I have no doubt that getting into such a long game would take a while, but you were obviously pretty familiar with it by this point, and you weren't "rereading in one sitting". You try to paint this like you had just sat down for the first time reading the game and were making your intial, game-entry posts. The HH vote was your 16th post of the game. Your switch to Guardian was less than an hour after that. No one posted any game theory in that time frame, but someone did post a short, 1 line post that would have been kind of hard for you to miss calling into question the reason for voting HH, and you abruptly changed your vote when Guardian *saved* you with his drunk posting. You also quickly decided to go against Glork, who you claim to know was a cop, and this was the sole reason for following in the HH wagon. And you also expect us to believe that, in this 80 page long game, you happened to be rereading the EXACT POST where Guardian first demonstrated his "inebriation defense" when Guardian pulled it again, which was another reason for you vote switch.

...

I basically was saying that I didn't understand to what extant having Guardian in the game late game might really fuck up the town. It wasn't until I started understanding that, and noticing how thoroughly he thought through this claim in advance of him actually claiming that I realized he needed to be lynched.

You fail. None of late game stuff had been brought up before you switched your vote.

...

When I started arguing with Guardian I had already decided 100% he was going to die, but I've been in more games with Guardian than anyone else on this forum. And so far in two of them I've felt really bad about lynching him >>. Yos can attest, in the first game (24 Mafia Mini, finished) I was scum, but the entire time I attacked him and picked him apart relentlessly. I really don't like being that kind of person, but at the time I felt like that was the right play, and it was. The scum won a flawless victory in that game.

Since then I had been trying to apologize to Guardian for the way I acted. Even after 24 mafia I made a funny jab at him in the Mini Theme Queue when he signed up for Ibby's game that I regretted. Ibby messaged me on aim and told me that Guardian actually took it personally, which I never intended. It was just a joke to me, and I said that in the thread after word saying that and even sent him a PM apologizing and asking him to please not drop out of Ibby's game because I was a jerk.

So now when I realized Guardian had to be lynched again, honestly I was trying to explain to him how much of a fuck up he made. I didn't think anyone else was going to at least do that for him, since he REALLY didn't understand exactly how big of a deal this was. So I wanted him to completely understand I really didn't

want

to do this, but for the betterment of the town I had to. Hell, that is among the reasons why I held my vote for as long as I did and tried to deny doing it...

GIANT, SAPPY, APPEAL TO EMOTION. "Look at me, I didn't want to vote Guardian because I was afraid I'd hurt this feelings, I just wanted to teach him to be a better player, poor, poor Guardian." Bleh.

...

Because I wasn't sure yet... Read above, those are my actual notes. Explains this "inconsistency" consistently. I wasn't

sure

Glork was cop until Mana came up dead. As soon as that happened I did this equation in my head:

Mana is the only doc. Glork was the scum target N2. Guardian wasn't the scum target because there is no 2nd doc. Glork cannot be mafia. Glork must be cop.

Perfectly consistent actually.

I'll admit, I was already

leaning

toward the Glork as a cop before this, but I was trying to force myself to remember he could also be mafia.

THEN WHY LIST HIM AS POSSIBLY SCUM OR SK. You still haven't answered this. If you REALLY thought that he even *might* be the cop, you don't list him as one of your main suspects. Especially since you didn't bother listing HH in that list, who you now claim you thought might be scum because Glork, who you thought was possibly a cop, was gunning for him.

...

Or... BM was a vanilla townie that didn't find this game very important because he wasn't a power role. He neglected it and didn't want to constantly catch up since it was moving so fast. The first time he was replaced he was annoyed/hurt, and decided to try and get back involved. He failed, and didn't try and stop being replaced the second time.

Meh. Your explanation isn't as good as mine. BM is in a ton of games here; if he was disinterested townie who wasn't keeping up with the game, I just don't see him fighting to keep from being replaced.

---

Since then you have FoSed me and claimed my attack of you was to try and *diffuse* the attack against MBL. You forgot that MBL wasn't posting at the time, and hadn't been for a while. Do you expect everyone to just sit back and wait for MBL? Don't you think it would be better to actively hunt scum, considering even if MBL is SK or mafia, that leaves at least 2 other players who are also scum. Lame. Then you tried to lead Glork into investigating me? Perhaps you don't want him investigating you on the off chance that he doesn't die tonight. Or perhaps you want to claim that Glork was killed because he was going to investigate me. I don't know, it's a weird play, and I think it was more motivated to try and make me look bad than on anything else.

You're caught scum. Die.

Vote: Kinetic

.

[MrBuddyLee]

Bingo bango bongo.

*** note to metagamers: impending scum attempt to appear involved in a lynch of scumpartner ***

vote: Kinetic

[Kinetic]

***note to metagamers: This is MBL trying to break that rule as scum by leading the mislynch of a townie.

I'm sorry, reading BT's response to my response is just hilarious. I explained myself and I don't think you "breaking down" my explanation is anything more than scum trying to pull something from nothing.

I originally thought BT was trying to pull something out of nothing to defend MBL and this is going exactly that way. BT

looks

like a Goon trying to defend MBL, who I'm now convinced is the Godfather.

My vote stands and I don't see any reason for changing it. The fact that TCS backed out means nothing because even

with

the innocent result I was leaning toward him as the possible one scum.

I'm not backing down, and I will not get scared by this bull. I stand by the statements I've made so far, and intentions behind those statements.

[MrBuddyLee]

BT

looks

like a Goon trying to defend MBL, who I'm now convinced is the Godfather. My vote stands and I don't see any reason for changing it.

OK cool, so please summarize your argument against me, taking into account my interactions with MoS, Sarcastro, and the various dead innocents. If you think I could be either SK or mafia, please be sure to specifically make cases for both, as they should be quite different from one another.

Let's see if you really believe the snap you're spouting.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

What specific thing about MBL has convinced you that he's the Godfather?

[Glork]

I don't like this Kinetic wagon. MBL is obviously trying to wrangle a lynch on an apparently weak player. I'm not sure what BT is up to, but his play is shoddy at best as town.

If Kinetic is lynched as town today, I would look

VERY HARD

at the people who have put pressure on him already.


MBL is still the SK, and eliminating him eliminates a nightkill upcoming.

MBL, if Kinetic is lynched as town, you should probably be hitting scum tonight. On the off-chance that you

don't

get lynched tomorrow, you'd already want only one scumbag alive. If tomorrow is 7 players with 2 Mafia and just you... Bad Sign. You need to even the odds before endgame approaches.
I figure you already know this, but I want to make it explicit.

[BillyTwilight]

I don't like this Kinetic wagon. MBL is obviously trying to wrangle a lynch on an apparently weak player. I'm not sure what BT is up to, but his play is shoddy at best as town.

Thanks! No really, coming from you, this just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

[Glork]

Sarcasm aside, I still have my BM-town tells. I think that Kinetic is an inarticulate and bumbling player (no offense to him), but when it comes down to it I do not see him as scum. Period.

[Glork]

I should also point out that BM's request not to be replaced is not indicative of anything. In a game I modded (well, took over for mikeburnfire), Suicide Bombers, Twito fought my replacement of him (a townie) and even posted his role PM after getting replaced, causing his replacement to get modkilled.

Some players just don't like to be replaced. Period. Even if they aren't contributing a goddamned thing and they don't have any abilities.

[Jack]

I don't like this Kinetic wagon. MBL is obviously trying to wrangle a lynch on an apparently weak player. I'm not sure what BT is up to, but his play is shoddy at best as town.

If Kinetic is lynched as town today, I would look

VERY HARD

at the people who have put pressure on him already.


MBL is still the SK, and eliminating him eliminates a nightkill upcoming.

MBL, if Kinetic is lynched as town, you should probably be hitting scum tonight. On the off-chance that you

don't

get lynched tomorrow, you'd already want only one scumbag alive. If tomorrow is 7 players with 2 Mafia and just you... Bad Sign. You need to even the odds before endgame approaches.
I figure you already know this, but I want to make it explicit.

Isn't the SK basically a vig at this point? Wouldn't lynching mafia and having the SK kill mafia or the mafia kill the SK be ideal? If we can find and lynch mafia we should.

As for Kinetic being bumbling, someone should read one of his other games and compare. I don't see what makes you say that though. Bumbling is scummy.

[MrBuddyLee]

Glork, I'm town you goof. Keep an open mind ffs and give us your alternate worldview just in case I turn up nightkilled as a poor innocent townie. Maybe when you discard your first instinct (which is fubarred) you will come through with some brilliant insight lying under the surface.

Not terribly likely I'll be nightkilled tonight though... it's significantly likely that both mafia and SK will axe you tonight if you're truly cop, which would save us a nightkill. For either side to risk letting the other kill you, resulting in no cop kill, would be dangerous.

I'm not trying to get Kinetic lynched just yet, but I do see his comments as inconsistent and worth further investigation. Most of you haven't played terribly pro-town this game, so there's no reason to zero in on Kinetic when there are 2-3 other scum to trick into slipping up.

Shteven, why on earth are you satisfied with an MBL lynch? If you're town, I've been one of the people who's actually noticed that and pressed the real scum when others here were hawking your wagon on a daily basis. Doesn't accurate scumhunting count for anything anymore? You've all become way too cynical, and are WAY too paranoid about the bus. Sometimes, what appears to be scumhunting is exactly that. While you're considering this, Shteven, please weigh in on whether you think my involvement in the Sarc lynch bore hallmarks of scum play.

[Glork]

No. At this point, if one scum can push a lynch on another scum, they should do so. As far as night actions go, they should be targeting each other, especially if we mislynch today. But keeping scum alive to hoepfully rely on crosskills is a Bad Idea. I think that if we lynch Mafia, they'll both try to kill town tonight to make it 7 players alive with 5 Town, 1 SK, 1 Mafia. That is their best hope for survival. Our goal should be to eliminate a kill altogether. Alternatively, hitting scum is the second option, but going after the SK is definitely, IMHO, the right play here.

[Jack]

MBL, why do you keep trying to insist that your scumhunting record makes you innocent? You're the one who said the sk should try and kill scum.

Have InHim and YB been prodded?

Glork, I'm not sure preventing a kill is that advantageous. HH dying was good for the town, and any crosskills would be extra bonus. Although you may be right, if we don't lynch the goon then the mafia will probably still kill you, and mbl as sk wouldn't necassarily want to eliminate the mafia just yet (he'd probably be lynched). I'll shutup till I reread.

[MrBuddyLee]

Jack, I'm not insisting that successful scumhunting eliminates me as an SK candidate, but I sure do think the tenor of my play should eliminate me as a serious candidate for mafia. A few of these less astute players don't seem to have picked up on that nuance though, which is why I'm harping on it. To win, we have to kill two scum in addition to the SK in approximately three lynches:

10 now
9 after lynch, 7 after NKs
6 after lynch, 4 after NKs
lynch or lose most likely with 4 remaining

So how will the SK get killed? Mafia will likely get two shots at night plus two shots at swinging lynches.

How will the mafia get killed? SK will get two shots at night plus two shots at swaying lynches.

So yeah, if you see a disproportionate push on a lynch, it's entirely possible it's mafia pressing for someone they know isn't mafia but could be the SK. Same thing vice-versa but less obvious to spot as the SK tries to swing lynches of mafia.

Bottom line, next to targeting obvious scum, you want scumhunters alive and the people who've been lynching town dead. In this game, there aren't many scumhunters and you should examine their play a LOT more carefully before flippantly volunteering to off them.

[Jack]

Kinetic, mind posting the rest of your notes?

[Yosarian2]

Sarcasm aside, I still have my BM-town tells. I think that Kinetic is an inarticulate and bumbling player (no offense to him), but when it comes down to it I do not see him as scum. Period.

Actually, I've seen Kinetic be much more articulate then this. Interestingly, he was scum that game.

[BillyTwilight]

Sarcasm aside, I still have my BM-town tells. I think that Kinetic is an inarticulate and bumbling player (no offense to him), but when it comes down to it I do not see him as scum. Period.

Actually, I've seen Kinetic be much more articulate then this. Interestingly, he was scum that game.

How close did he ever get to being caught in that game, Yos? Was he ever under significant pressure from several players in the game?

[Jack]

I have a couple questions for kinetic after rereading his posts.

0-1 Cop Glork? Would explain why he thinks there are not many power roles left.

.....

12. Glork
I have a strong feeling he might be one of the remaining team scum
No.. He's a power role. Seems possible he's the cop.
Not a mason
Proof he might be the cop below

.....

Having re-examined inHim last night, I no longer believe that he is likely to be scum. I think I was just getting a bit to OMGUSy over his attacks on me. I still don't particularly like them, but I can kindasorta see where he was coming from. I've already put TCS in pretty much the exact same boat.

Glork is the cop!? Inhim is innocent/N2 Target.

Also glork, someone in the general discussion thread said that when you are pro-town you "reek of pro-town". You don't reek of pro-town this game. hmm?

Do you need me to start linking games where people found me scummy but I was town?

I find it rather absurd that you're taking one player's opinion and using it as law to meta me. For the record, the player who said that about me was Zindaras.
1) Zindaras and I have been playing mafia together since before either of us knew what MafiaScum was. I can say with the utmost confidence that there is no other player who can get more out of my posts to get a good read on me.
2) What one player (in this case, Zindaras) believes to be pro-town is not always what another player believes to be pro-town. This statement is proven by simple observation. If everybody thought that the same things were pro-town, all of the townies would agree on every lynch. The fact that there's so much debate in each and every mafia game, even amongst protown players, is testament to the fact that no two players find the same things pro-town or scummy.
**Case in point: My assessment of Albert's play in this very game. He alleged that shameless bandwagoning was a good way of hunting scum. I told him that he was going about it all wrong, that it takes a specific eye for reactions to bandwagons to make such tactics effective, and that even then it's a very dangerous game to play.
**Further case in point: The debate regarding BM's alleged "always scumminess." Some argue that BM is responsible for his actions in each game, regardless of what the meta towards him is. BM asserted that instead of just saying "oh, he's being scummy again, let's vote him" players should be looking at what makes him scum this time around as to the scummy town that he "usually" is.

I grow tired of this charade.

Either Glork or Jack is mafiascum. Explains the immediate Zindy kill. Jack didn't want Zindy confirming Glork or Glork didn't want Zindy outing him.

This is your supposed journal entry. I say supposed because it DOESN'T MAKE SENSE AT ALL. How on earth can you make this into "Jack didn't want Zindy confirming Glork"? These two posts were in the public thread, anyone could have read that Zindy knew Glork. Also, any of the players who have been around for a while could know that. And oh, let's see, there's also the fact that this post was on DAY 2, AFTER the zindy kill. This really looks like you were just making shit up.

vote:Kinetic

2nd question.

Well I'm right now at the beginning/middle of Day 2 in my reading, before the Guardian lynch/claim really takes off, and I'm mighty suspicious of TCS. I'm going to Vote:TCS at this time.

I agree on a lot of your ideas about TCS Hacker, he keeps coming back as generally scummy in my book as well.

TCS: Continually in the wrong place at the wrong time. Between him and BT, both are very close in my book, but I prefer TCS for the reasons stated above and because I'm slightly less suspicious of BT.

My vote stays on TCS. I still have about 10 more pages of rereading to go, but I've been jumping back and forth and doing some targeted rereads. I'm fairly confident TCS is part of the mafia.

The way I feel about it, I feel strong enough to push for TCS at this time and I'll vote for HH if the lynch gets moving.

I don't exactly know how well I believe Guardian right now, but I felt strongly he might be the SK well before his secondary claim, and his latest claim hasn't exactly inspired confidence in me.

I won't personally push for Guardian's vote, but I will vote for him if that seems to be the way this day goes.

*side note: kinetic is willing to lynch whoever is most popular*

Meh... At this point I'd much prefer us going after TCS... that being said both HH and Guardian are high on my list...

Vote:HH

That should put them both at -3.

Unvote, Vote:Guardian

I don't like fake drunk Guardian. He's worse at lying when he is pretending to be drunk then when he is trying to be serious.

Vote:TCS

Your inactivity up until now, coupled with my previous points on Day 3 still stand.

5. The Central Scrutinizer (TCS) - Innocent Cop Result
...
So yea, as I see it, going after the innocent cop results at this time is just a waste in time. For all we know the godfather isn't even among them.

The last quote is very interesting when you look at the previous quotes on TCS. Care to explain?

[Jack]

If Kinetic is lynched as town today, I would look

VERY HARD

at the people who have put pressure on him already.


MBL is still the SK, and eliminating him eliminates a nightkill upcoming.

Surely scum want to lynch the sk? Why distrust them for pushing kinetic?

[Shteven]

Sarcasm aside, I still have my BM-town tells. I think that Kinetic is an inarticulate and bumbling player (no offense to him), but when it comes down to it I do not see him as scum. Period.

I believe you've mentioned time and time again that it's a logical fallacy to assume you're always right, isn't it?