Ok, Glork is on page 3 and will start posting some assorted thoughts as he goes along. I generally find that the best way to do things when I replace into a game. (Note that this is different from my "Big Game Analysis" posts, a la Kingmaker 1 and Face-To-Face. The purpose is not to bust all of the scums or anything... I'm just pointing out whatever sticks out and sending out some feeler questions. I won't even promise to have a vote by the end of all of this, because I will naturally want to see responses to my post. But, as I am never one to shy away from diving right into a replacement gig, I'm just going to churn through as much of this as my brain will allow tonight.) Also, apologies if I re-hash points that have already been said. I'm literally writing paragraphs as I read, so if I say/ask something that has already been said/asked, I'll tell you all to disregard it.
I definitely advocate the use of the Concordet voting method right from the get-go. Somebody (Skruffs, I believe) mentioned how, like any regular votes, they're free to be changed at will.
By the end of page 3, though, he seems particularly obssessed with the wagon against him. As far as I can tell, the earliest votes (aside from Oman's) were more or less random/jokey. Zindaras' tone in particular should make it obvious that he is goofing around. I am not a big fan of Skruffs' OMGUS, but I find those jumping on him (particularly VitaminR, who struck a chord with me in Post 74) to be far more suspect.
FoS: VitR
Pooky's
Post 77 made me laugh, but I sortof see where he's coming from. Skruffs' logic often comes across as being odd in others' eyes. (Sidenote: I think, though, it has more to do with the presentation than the logic itself sometimes, though. But that is neither here nor there.) In fact, I was just thinking of asking VitR if he had taken Skruffs' C&H play into account when launching his Post 74 offensive. VitR? What is your meta on Skruffs, and how does that affect your opinion of him?
My predecessor's first posts are, in my opinion, uninspiring. As I said before, I *like* using the Concordet method, and I definitely see myself having multiple suspicions D1 (I usually do have at least two leads going on at once). Obvious difference in personal playstyle/philosophy.
LmL's
Post 86 pinged me. Do the words "bus" or "distance" mean anything to you? Is it really unreasonable to suspect two people on opposite sides of an argument?
FoS: LmL
I'm going to ask Pooky approximately the same question I asked VitR earlier. In
Post 98, you explain your stance on MoS. However, taking into account his often-flippant playstyle in the early parts of games, what distinguishing factors make you think that MoS is actually worth running up?
Oh, Logic's post 105 brings up something that I meant to address at the start of my post but forgot to do so. I'm surprised that Foolinc's post got virtually no reaction. I somewhat expected a few players to jump on it for setup/rolename speculation, but there wasn't much talk about it. For the record, I find foolinc's post to be misguided, but well-meaning. Plus points to fool.
In the meantime, Logic's "VitR gives me good protown vibes" post baffles me to no end.
Parts of DP's post 111 surprise me.
- I disagree with his take on Jeep. Though Jeep hasn't posted the volume that others have, I think that his votes give a pretty good indication of where he stands. (Note: This is another reason that using the Concordet method from the get-go is a Good Thing.)
- I also disagree with his take on MoS -- anybody who has played more than a couple of games with MoS knows that he
ALWAYS
starts his games out with a random vote using the Dice function
. Since he couldn't do that, he did the next best thing. I cannot, at this time, think of a non-dice method to "prove" randomness, so I think it's entirely reasonable to take MoS's word for it that he simply made an entire list of random votes. And furthermore, as I indicated in my criticism of Pooky's stance, I don't see why it should be that big of a deal. I think that MoS's series of random-votes has generated at least as much fruitful discussion as "Hay guyz, LmL is scum cuz he talks a lot and annoys me lolololol" or a long-winded but clearly unfounded "case" against somebody as laid out by Zindaras against Skruffs.
- VitR -- mentioned that already, though I suppose I could be arsed into explaining what I didn't like about VitR's post. Long story short, I found it opportunistic and a little overdone for Page 3 (Page 2, really, if you don't count the confirms) of the game.
- Zindaras' play makes sense to me as somebody who made a whole lot of noise to kick off the game and then made his first observations/analyses based on that. i think that his play makes a lot of sense here, though I understand where you're coming from with the IGMEOY.
I will note that I did, however, agree with the neutral/no-read level comments, as several players have not contributed (much) up to this point. That said,
Minor FoS: DP
for his "I agree with VitR" stance. I feel like this could be a setup to go after VitR later if Skruffs turns up town (which, at this point, I find somewhat likely to be the case).
Jeep wrote:Why don't you agree? I don't understand why any pro-town role would not use a list.
Hi, QFT, kthxbai.
LmL's
Post 120 reminds me of something I should've caught the first time around.
FoS: Adele
, similar to the one I levied on DP just a second ago. Pooky's stance towards MoS is bad enough. Those falling in line with that stance are worse.
DP: Could you
PLEASE
explain
Post 122? Do you think there is an advantage to
NOT
using Concordet voting? Do you think that scum are more likely to use (and/or advocate the use of) Concordet voting (and if so, why)?
I am simply not seing your stanc here at all. I agree completely with Jeep's take, and I'd really like you to explain why protown players should find not-using-Concordet preferrable to using-Concordet.
Logicticus wrote:Jeep, does that mean in a regular game that all pro town roles should always be voting?
YES! Absolutely yes! The vote is the protown player's best weapon. It should virtually
always
be used unless a player has a very distinct reason for not using (such as at/near endgame or wanting to prove a point by withholding it).
To expand on Jeep's point (just read
Post 137), a vote (or series of votes, such as the case may be) is an official advocation for a lynch on the subject(s). If you're protown, it is assumed that you are voting your top suspect(s). If you are protown, you should have a vested interest inseeing your top suspect(s) lynched. Thus, it is always advantageous to list a preference of players as accurately as possible, because under the Concordet system, that gives the best chances of having somebody at/near the top of your suspect list lynched. That is why, in general, it is useful to use Concordet voting.
The reason it is useful in early-game (some people have said "I'll do it later, but it's pointless now) is because it gives a quick sum-up of your current suspicions. This is important for numerous reasons:
Mgm wrote:If you use a list, you should do the legwork and explain why every single individual is on it and why each of them is in the position they're in. Otherwise, we're still clueless on voting reasons if it comes to a deadline lynch.
If you want somebody to explain their list, ask them exactly why they have voted the way they have, in that order. Sometimes a player will not have the time to adequately explain his thoughts.
As a reference, see
this post and the following excerpt from
this post:
Glork, C&H Mafia wrote:So... it seems that that Thok and I are literally the only players in the game who were absent throughout this entire thing. Truth be told, I don't remember what I was doing around that time, or what my activity level was on the rest of the site. I honestly have virtually no recollection of what happened. I can say that I would've jumped on Emp had I been paying more attention to the game at that point, but that's a claim that can't be validated in the least. What I *do* remember, however, is seeing a sudden burst of "OMG EMP IS SCUM!" And a series of votes and confirm votes. Having not properly grasped the situation, I believe (though I cannot say for certain) that my "MM, VitR, SV?" post was my reaction to thinking that Emp had been quick-wagoned due to the deadline, and that his lynch was probably a mislynch.
In that game, I felt it was important to post my gut thoughts/reaction to a situation, even though I didn't have the time to properly analyze the situation at the time. Still, I wanted to note my reactions so that I could refer to it later. Players did ask me about that post and my thoughts/actions (at least half a dozen times *rolls eyes*), and I explained them.
Basically, the philosophy is that anything is better than nothing. A protown player should have little problem expressing his weighted suspicions. He should also have relatively little trouble expanding upon those suspicions when asked to. Mgm, DP:
NOTHING
is stopping you from asking Jeep to explain his lists. Yet instead of doing that, you have both chosen to simply attack him for his chosen play.
Major FoS: DP, Mgm
CES wrote:Adding players to a list won't magically tell the town what people are thinking, Oman. If you want to know who someone suspects, just ask them, which is true of every game.
Failure. Adding players to the list
will
tell you what you're thinking. It just won't tell people
why
you're thinking it. However, in a game like this, stating your conclusion generally invites questions as to reasons and motives. I find this post particularly uninspiring. In light of CES's prior lack of content, I think it's enough for a
FoS: CES
There is obvious a growing rift here, as VitR has jumped in to the Jeep-camp and ZZ/CES believe that DP's behavior is in the right. I'm actually really liking this conflict now, for all of the info it will provide later.
I would strongly suggest that, later in the game, players come back and revisit this entire debate.
Obviously, I don't yet know what it'll lead to, but I can pretty much guarantee that it will have some Good Information when all is said and done. I'm not sure whether that information will come out until we've seen some bodies, but this is the sort of stuff that people should absolutely pay attention to when looking back on Day One.
Post 158 by foolinc makes me cringe. Brief thoughts on anybody, but the only one he definitely describes as scummy are Skruffs and Jeep.
FoS: foolinc
for what looks like a suspicion-sheep post if ever I saw one.
<--- I am at Post 160, and my eyes are finally starting to glaze over --->
I think I've done more than enough for one night. I want to see the fallout of my grand entrance, as I'm sure there will be a great deal to respond to. In the meantime...
Vote: Dragon Phoenix
, Mgm, foolinc, Adele, CES, Xyzzy, LoudmouthLee
