Blitz 4: Kingmaker (game over)

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Post Post #125 (ISO) » Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:42 pm

Post by Soft-spoken »

In post 95, Smithereens wrote:
In post 77, Soft-spoken wrote:
In post 72, pisskop wrote:

My personal stance on it is 'I don't mind' but keep it tasteful and in check.[/b][/color]


sorry if i stepped over the line a little. the second one was just poking fun at him since i had already explained the king mechanics


Lol, typical scum to think that every critical mention is against them. That was a generalised comment buddy, don't see what prompted an apology from you. Unless of course you are feeling guilty for some reason. :shifty:


sounds like you are picking out individual posts and not actually reading the thread? the mod comment was obviously prompted by my actions.
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Post Post #126 (ISO) » Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:43 pm

Post by Smithereens »

In post 124, Accountant wrote:
In post 118, Smithereens wrote:
In post 117, Accountant wrote:
texcat you are very quick to call things scum itg which is very different from how I remember you as town before.

This is literally textbook doubtcasting.

"which is very different from how I remember you as town before" is a meta argument.

Note how he doesn't directly call tex scum so if tex flips town he can go "but I didn't say tex was scum, I just said he acted differently from what I remember of him as town". If town!Spiffeh really was leaning scum on tex, he would come right out and say so instead of sniping at him like this.


You can be sure there will be at least a few million more instances of townies performing actions which can be interpreted as scummy before the sun sets today. My question is why did you come up with this reason now and not before when it would have been of greater utility?

Just be aware that you have changed your reason for voting against him from 'lashing out,' to this elaborate reason which you have procured in your defense. This inconsistency is detrimental town play at best, but more likely malignantly motivated wouldn't you agree?

What do you mean greater utility?

My reasoning against him is unchanged, he was lashing out against tex and I find that scummy.


No, he wasn't lashing out against Tex. He can't be because the very nature of the suspicion you claim he raised was inherently passive. Ergo, he was doing the very opposite of lashing out.

You claim that "If town!Spiffeh really was leaning scum on tex, he would come right out and say so instead of sniping at him like this." That would be lashing out. Hence its not spiffeh who was setting a trap that would produce a conundrum either way for Tex, it was you. If he came out and 'said so,' you would have more reasonable grounds for claiming that he was lashing out.

But as it stands, you have completely dismantled any logical base for you to claim that he was lashing out by changing your defense a full 180 degrees. Was he lashing out or wasn't he? Or is he scum either way..?
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Post Post #127 (ISO) » Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:43 pm

Post by Spiffeh »

Sakura is probably scum
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Post Post #128 (ISO) » Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:43 pm

Post by Accountant »

There is such a thing as passive-aggressiveness dude.
There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.

You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.
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Post Post #129 (ISO) » Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:44 pm

Post by Smithereens »

In post 123, Titus wrote:
In post 121, Smithereens wrote:Loaded questions are highly effective at getting what I want imo.


I have a bad habit of using them too but they aren't that effective IMO. Sorry for stomping on you. We'll see.


No actually, we probably won't see. There was some good pressure there until it fell apart when you gave Accountant the illusion of implicit support. Was it your intention to undermine the scum hunt because she was buckling under pressure or were you genuinely concerned with the semantics of my wording..? I'm aware you're the king and all, and even more so that you know who the Kingsmaker is, but you were obviously aware of the capitalization of pressure that suddenly occurred against Accountant, since I'm the one who stole the thrust off you.

In future you probably shouldn't create an opening for a scum hunt if you're just going to alleviate pressure on the hunted mid-way, as opposed to awaiting to see how the hunt turns out. Right now, Accountant will be harder to analyse, I'm kinda pissed because I thought you deliberately created that opening, but maybe it was unintentional after all.

Also,
If the kingsmaker dies tonight, the new kingsmaker should assume that Titus is one of the assassins.
Not that it'll matter. But at least someone knows.
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Post Post #130 (ISO) » Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:44 pm

Post by Smithereens »

In post 127, Spiffeh wrote:Sakura is probably scum


why?
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Post Post #131 (ISO) » Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:45 pm

Post by Spiffeh »

I have read literally nothing but she's not in the thick of things which I don't like
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Post Post #132 (ISO) » Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:47 pm

Post by Smithereens »

In post 125, Soft-spoken wrote:
In post 95, Smithereens wrote:
In post 77, Soft-spoken wrote:
In post 72, pisskop wrote:

My personal stance on it is 'I don't mind' but keep it tasteful and in check.[/b][/color]


sorry if i stepped over the line a little. the second one was just poking fun at him since i had already explained the king mechanics


Lol, typical scum to think that every critical mention is against them. That was a generalised comment buddy, don't see what prompted an apology from you. Unless of course you are feeling guilty for some reason. :shifty:


sounds like you are picking out individual posts and not actually reading the thread? the mod comment was obviously prompted by my actions.


It's how I would normally incite discussion. Nothing personal. It's true the mod's comment was relevant to your own, it's not true that townies jump to find justifications for their actions like that.
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Post Post #133 (ISO) » Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:48 pm

Post by Soft-spoken »

In post 98, Titus wrote:Ok, I am removing Smithereens from the lynch today. It is possible she's scum and is faking, I don't think so. I'm inclined to give the newbie time unless someone makes a good case for her being scum as that's close to a town tell.

Now as for the lynch, you can vote anyone but me or Smithereens. After 36 hours, everyone who lacks a vote will not be the lynch. Any wagon reaching hammer will be the lynch. I will not have a vote for these purposes but I function as a bad wagon vetoed (which I plan to use sparingly, basically if a wagon is driven only by fallacies or insults).

Good luck.



you might have good intentions but this seems like pandering. i fully expect you to execute who you feel is the best lynch, and have some logic behind your decision. if you dont, i will autoassume you are scum.
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Post Post #134 (ISO) » Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:49 pm

Post by Spiffeh »

I'm a tad tipsy rn so I will dismantle Accountant's whatever on me tomorrow
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Post Post #135 (ISO) » Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:50 pm

Post by Soft-spoken »

In post 108, Firebringer wrote:I actually get those scum feels from Spiffeh, don't ask me where they come from.
He just doesn't seem interested in the game.

Maybe not alignment indicative? Who knows.

reads like an ever-convenient vague impression that someone who is being wagoned is scum
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Post Post #136 (ISO) » Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:56 pm

Post by Accountant »

nobody is actively pushing spiffeh except me.
There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.

You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.
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Post Post #137 (ISO) » Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:57 pm

Post by Titus »

In post 133, Soft-spoken wrote:
In post 98, Titus wrote:Ok, I am removing Smithereens from the lynch today. It is possible she's scum and is faking, I don't think so. I'm inclined to give the newbie time unless someone makes a good case for her being scum as that's close to a town tell.

Now as for the lynch, you can vote anyone but me or Smithereens. After 36 hours, everyone who lacks a vote will not be the lynch. Any wagon reaching hammer will be the lynch. I will not have a vote for these purposes but I function as a bad wagon vetoed (which I plan to use sparingly, basically if a wagon is driven only by fallacies or insults).

Good luck.



you might have good intentions but this seems like pandering. i fully expect you to execute who you feel is the best lynch, and have some logic behind your decision. if you dont, i will autoassume you are scum.


Let it seem like pandering then. Looking at relationships is how I read people. Without those relationships or a method of generating them, I have next to nothing. This also creates accountability and can correct me if I am wrong.

If you don't know how I stand on anything, ask. If I am dead set on Accountant, but the rest of the group thinks she's town, that would raise an interesting predicament and one I frankly don't want to face.
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You're letting Titus win the game by herself.Good luck now I guess.You have no chance to win.~Tywin

GTKTitus Part 2
Titus Academy

VLA Friday nights until Sunday morning.

All hail the Scum Empress!
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Post Post #138 (ISO) » Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:57 pm

Post by Firebringer »

In post 136, Accountant wrote:nobody is actively pushing spiffeh except me.

I am subtle pushing him from the background.
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his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
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Post Post #139 (ISO) » Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:58 pm

Post by Soft-spoken »

i think i like smith's style. very effective to nitpick and get people on the defensive.

regardless of alignment.
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Post Post #140 (ISO) » Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:01 pm

Post by Smithereens »

In post 128, Accountant wrote:There is such a thing as passive-aggressiveness dude.


This is not relevant, and if it is, all the more reason to believe your motivation for voting was malicious.

If you can call him out and condemn him as scum for passive-aggressive reference to other players, then your own method is scummy for the same reason. As you said, your vote for him stands because you believe he lashed out. Now some things to note:
1) You originally called it lashing out, and then described what he should have done as something which was far more 'lashing out' or aggressive, meaning there was no actual hope for him to be able to get a town read off you.
2) You underplayed your original claim by citing text-book scum plays that applied to him. What you cited, namely the 'lack of aggression' = scum, because scum would come right out and say it flatly contradicts your initial reason for voting him.
3) When you attempted to justify it, you came up with "Passive-aggression." Which is not actually what you were claiming when you were elaborating the reasons previous. Hence you've changed your claims yet again.
4) The reasons which you've cited as evidence against him I'd like to use as a more valid construction for a vote grounds against you. Namely, you are scum because:
a) Instead of 'saying so,' you gave arbitrary and highly ambiguous reads that concluded a vote against Spiffeh was justified.
b) You lashed out against Spiffeh (is equally valid to your original claim, which is to say, not valid at all)
c) You're blatantly performing 'doubt-casting' on Spiffeh, by making a claim against him that can be retracted into: "Oh, it was passive-aggression."

Your play is scummy as fck let's be honest.
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Post Post #141 (ISO) » Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:02 pm

Post by Smithereens »

In post 136, Accountant wrote:nobody is actively pushing spiffeh except me.


He will have his time. There is no need for you to divert pressure from yourself. Oh wait, yeah there is, you don't want your alignment to be revealed right?
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Post Post #142 (ISO) » Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:03 pm

Post by Soft-spoken »

titus, if you use votes to get reads thats fine... its half the reason i thought that a VC would help encourage action. but if you lynch someone you dont think is scum, why should anyone interperate that as a pro town move? the whole advantage of a correctly chosen king is nullifying mafias innfluence on the lynch. if you are town i expect you to play pro town and use that advantage... not cop out to a majority consensus so you can avert blame later
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Post Post #143 (ISO) » Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:04 pm

Post by Smithereens »

In post 131, Spiffeh wrote:I have read literally nothing but she's not in the thick of things which I don't like


There are a heap of players currently not in the thick of things. And fyi, yes she is most definitely in the thick of things at this point. What makes you think she isn't in the thick of things? And why wouldn't you like that?
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Post Post #144 (ISO) » Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:09 pm

Post by Soft-spoken »

In post 132, Smithereens wrote: It's true the mod's comment was relevant to your own, it's not true that townies jump to find justifications for their actions like that.


this implies that i had to find a reason, and its fairly obvious in context that i was indeed being sarcastic.
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Post Post #145 (ISO) » Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:09 pm

Post by Titus »

In post 142, Soft-spoken wrote:titus, if you use votes to get reads thats fine... its half the reason i thought that a VC would help encourage action. but if you lynch someone you dont think is scum, why should anyone interperate that as a pro town move? the whole advantage of a correctly chosen king is nullifying mafias innfluence on the lynch. if you are town i expect you to play pro town and use that advantage... not cop out to a majority consensus so you can avert blame later


I am going to veto bad lynches. The fact is, I am a horrible day 1 king. If I lynch someone, I believe they are scum. I know I get tunnel vision and sometimes it's wrong.

If I lynch someone I have a townread on, you would be right to turbo lynch me. I would sooner abandon my plan before lynching someone I thought was town.
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Titus Academy

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Post Post #146 (ISO) » Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:09 pm

Post by Accountant »

In post 140, Smithereens wrote:
In post 128, Accountant wrote:There is such a thing as passive-aggressiveness dude.


This is not relevant, and if it is, all the more reason to believe your motivation for voting was malicious.

If you can call him out and condemn him as scum for passive-aggressive reference to other players, then your own method is scummy for the same reason. As you said, your vote for him stands because you believe he lashed out. Now some things to note:
1) You originally called it lashing out, and then described what he should have done as something which was far more 'lashing out' or aggressive, meaning there was no actual hope for him to be able to get a town read off you.
2) You underplayed your original claim by citing text-book scum plays that applied to him. What you cited, namely the 'lack of aggression' = scum, because scum would come right out and say it flatly contradicts your initial reason for voting him.
3) When you attempted to justify it, you came up with "Passive-aggression." Which is not actually what you were claiming when you were elaborating the reasons previous. Hence you've changed your claims yet again.
4) The reasons which you've cited as evidence against him I'd like to use as a more valid construction for a vote grounds against you. Namely, you are scum because:
a) Instead of 'saying so,' you gave arbitrary and highly ambiguous reads that concluded a vote against Spiffeh was justified.
b) You lashed out against Spiffeh (is equally valid to your original claim, which is to say, not valid at all)
c) You're blatantly performing 'doubt-casting' on Spiffeh, by making a claim against him that can be retracted into: "Oh, it was passive-aggression."

Your play is scummy as fck let's be honest.

Addressing your points:

1) You seem to think that him standing there and saying "texcat is scum" is less aggressive than sniping at texcat from the shadows. This isn't true at all. Sniping at someone, especially scum pushing a wagon from the shadows, is a far better way to cast suspicion on them and push their wagon than just voting them and going flat out "this person is scum".

2) Being passive-aggressive is NOT lack of aggression. It is being sneaky about your aggression. I called out spiffeh for his sneaky aggression.

3) See above.

4a) Arbitrary and highly ambiguous reads? I said spiffeh was scum and voted him lmao

b) I was aggressive towards spiffeh, but I was open and upfront about my aggression instead of poking him sneakily like he did to tex.

c) That's not doubtcasting. Doubtcasting is when you say something like "well don't you think X could be interpreted as Y under a certain light" and scum like to do it because if they are proven wrong they can laugh and say "well I did say under a certain light". It's basically being a weasel. On the other hand I am coming out and saying "what spiffeh did was scummy and I am voting him for it". See the difference?

Also right now Smithereens is blatantly whiteknighting spiffeh
There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.

You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.
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Post Post #147 (ISO) » Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:10 pm

Post by Spiffeh »

Fuck Titus might be scum

@Smithereens I think I can read Sakura so I want her to be in the thick of things so I can get my bearings with her. Not a fan of her very few posts so far.
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Post Post #148 (ISO) » Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:11 pm

Post by Accountant »

Spiffeh what do you think of Smithereens
There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.

You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.
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Post Post #149 (ISO) » Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:11 pm

Post by Firebringer »

I want to ask real quick.

WHY WOULDNT I GET PICKED FOR KING!?!?!?!?!?

WHY TITUS OVER LOVABLE FIREBRINGER!?!?!?
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"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.

His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown

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