Mini 1730: Suikoden U-Pick GAME OVER

[FireKari]

It may be awful, but I will not be tricked again, get it?

Also, the proof I am town is that I wouldn't be voting LQ if I am scum.

Everyone voting LQ is proven town?

[Titus]

Right now? So I would be at night? The night is in 9 days or so, not 'right now'.

You do realize you're implicating yourself?

Can we lynch this please? There's literally no way to read this and I don't want to be staring at end game and still wondering.

Nope. Don't feel like it anymore.

Talk to me if LQ flips town. You could convince me on Klingon.

[Jeanne11]

I will not repeat the same mistake from last game where I town-read scum. The safest bet for me is not to trust anyone.

[Jeanne11]

But, no, seriously, you all have 'let scum play us for fools, huzzah!' mentality and are looking me like I am insane for trying not to let scum string me along.......

[Titus]

But, no, seriously, you all have 'let scum play us for fools, huzzah!' mentality and are looking me like I am insane for trying not to let scum string me along.......

You're coming across more like aliens are out to get me guy rather than cautiously skeptical to the point where it is hard to tell your alignment. I have done the same myself. Hence why I favor facts, vote counts and VCA.

It's not the question of what people are doing at first but why. With more facts, charisma is less important.

So chill. I agree wgeurts looks scummy for his gambit reaction. LQ has issues. So does BM. So does Klingon. I doubt RR.

We're all powerful roles in our own rights probably.

Try to find who you can trust but always have a failsafe.

[Titus]

*so does wgeurts

[FireKari]

FireKari -

Light-Scum

This slot has really just been posting fluff right from the start and I still haven't figured if yukari is a clever troll or is serious about all this weird confusing gibberish they post. Not to mention in post 134 they were town reading LQ and then later in post 189 they just naked vote him opportunistically with the reasoning consisting of "die scum". They have parked there ever since and have yet to provide reasoning, one of those that could be scum on a possible LQ town "anon"-wagon.

Questions

Why were you originally town-reading LQ and what caused the change?
What are your thoughts on matters right now?

134 was from Fire. We (Yukari) placed the naked vote on LQ who we still suspect. Naked vote with reasons explained later is typical Yukari play. Also typical to be a bit laid-back D1, we dont rly get going much till D2+ after flips.
Voted RR because we didn't like his vote during the blackout, nor his posts shortly afterward.

Also, we are not roleplaying our condition, and nothing is truly gibberish.

Still catching up.

[Titus]

There's nobody in this game who can objectively read Jeanne, and so there's only two ways to handle her: Lynch her while we have mislynches in case it's not just a put on by scum ... or investigate. But we can't trust that we HAVE a proper investigator and it would be suboptimal for an investigator to waste a night on someone who is being deliberately obtuse and slinging mud all over the place. This is a case where we're going to have to lynch Jeanne sooner or later, so better to do it today and get some clarity from all of her interactions.

You're town for {reasons}, which don't need to be discussed today, because scum doesn't need help.

This makes me want to vig you despite thinking you're town. While Jeanne has things she needs to learn, lynching her for being transparent about her trust issues isn't on the agenda.

[Jeanne11]

I tried to chill but people still mislynched me because they thought I was 'weird'. Either provide facts of get off my case.

[Ranger]

So let's start with Ranger,

he

This was very obviously pre-typed in a PT, at some prior point to my 817.
Now what kind of player would have access to a PT, hmm?

His next post 125 and 126 he votes LQ without any reason what so ever, it feels a little opportunistic as LQ was under quite a bit of pressure around then.

I don't do opportunism, as explained in 138. LicketyQuickety was my vote for one simple reason: most of his posting was utterly devoid of a town process. (Note that when I voted LQ, I was not caught up in the thread. I post as I catch up.) I'd be lying if I said LQ's posting was all scum; there was

one

brief section of the game where LQ put up a good show, but given that his content before

and

after that time period was and is still bad, it was exactly that: nothing but a show.

His scum read on Brantz is also complete crumpets as that slot hasn't actually really produced any content worth pushing yet.

This is subjective and you should know it. RVS content never is irrelevant. On my home site, we continue to scrutinize D1 (which is usually almost all RVS aside from some maybe-serious pushes near the very end) throughout the entirety of the game. I did not like BRantz's entry.

All the way up to post 748 where he suddenly creates a reads-list identical to titus' containing no reasoning for the reads at all.

Titus's reads were a copy of mine, not vice-versa. This is easily shown by linking posts like 213 (where I say I was not marking someone I thought was town), 441 (me stating my suspicion on BM), 443 (where my scumread is explicit on BM), 444 (where I say Elbirn is town, RR is null but possible, and BRantz is my third suspicion next to BM and LQ), 446 (where I say RR is possibly scum), and 448 (where I explain in more detail the possibility of RR being scum).

This all shows very, very clearly where my reads were coming from in my reads list. To say I copied it from another is ridiculous. They're my reads. What kind of horrible player do you think I am, to need to copy the reads of another player? I repeat: not a newb. Titus sharing the reads is either coincidence or effort on her part to copy mine. This is especially true given that I post as I read rather than catching up all at once and making a giant wall.

His 768 is also horrifically scummy, it looks likes he's setting himself up to vote whoever the town ends up deciding to lynch.

What.
Me trying to

lead the town and spearhead a LQ lynch

. Is somehow me trying to set myself up to vote whoever the town ends up deciding to lynch?
I want LQ lynched. Titus and Jeanne were both off the wagon, tunneling each other. I wanted them both on the wagon, so I asked. In what twisted realm can you possibly interpret that as trying to lynch anyone rather than me trying to lynch one specific person?

I also call complete bollux that he was scum reading me early game and thus marked me, he stated all other scum reads but happened to leave me unmenioned?

Because my mark did the speaking for me about my read on you. The mark is a negative thing for the marked. Therefore, by implication, me marking you would reveal my scumread on you the minute I flipped. (Because I would never mark a player I thought was town.)

Could you explain in your own words how everyone you listed as scum is actually scum in your eyes?

When I feel like it, yes. But for you and RR, the current strength of my read comes from how you both voted during the anonymous voting session, along with your reactions immediately after that. There was things before that made me have my eye on you two (your RVS posting being just as bad as Brantz's, some of RR's posting), but it was that which really (re)created the scumreads.

What do you think or Brantz now? He's not changed anything since you last scum read him but he's suddenly null.

There can't be five scum in the game. Heck, there can't even be four, but I'm still suspicious of both you and RR in spite of there being room for only one of you in the scumteam. (Because BM and LQ both occupy strong spots that will not be changing.) You said it yourself: BRantz hasn't done much of anything in the game and has little to be read off of. While I had an initial scumread there, it is based off of things you yourself explicitly said were weak-at-best, and you're absolutely right. So, as a result, BRantz moved up to null when thanks to the stuff I talk about responding to quote above this one, you and RR moved down.

What does the mark do!?

My secret. To find out, you'll either have to rolecop me or kill me.

All-in-all, this post has almost-entirely backwards reads.

[Ranger]

So because we happened to share a read I was following him?

You absolute, utter hypocrite.

All the way up to post 748 where he suddenly creates a reads-list identical to titus' containing no reasoning for the reads at all.

*cough*

[Titus]

@Ranger, Do you townread Jeanne and I?

[Ranger]

I'm not bloody copying LQ, my gawd

And yet, you accuse me of following Titus.
How's it feel to be on the receiving end of that accusation, hmm?

Ranger claims to have had a "scum read" on wgeurts when marking wgeurts, but at the time of the mark, wgeurts had two posts: and RVS vote and an RVS chatter post a few posts later. There was no objective reason to mark wgeurts or any way to even read wgeurts at that time.

Have you considered that I hold the power to decide whether the mark does something or not? It's bad for the marked, but it's not automatically triggered by the process of me marking them. I have to activate it. If my read changed (it actually moved up to null later, until how wgeurts anonymously voted and reacted knocked him back to being a scumread again), then no harm done.

But yes. I did scumread wgeurts for much the same reason I scumread BRantz: I did not like how they handled the RVS.
Maybe this is culture clash. But where I come from, RVS posts are always important.

So if town, Ranger is objectively bad for making a hasty decision based upon nothing to actually read

You say nothing, I say something. RVS posting is never irrelevant posting. It's how Elbirn became obvtown, after all, and to some extent Titus and Jeanne too among others.

[FireKari]

We suspect everyone who changed vote to titus during the thread lock , just seemed a bit too coordinated to be coincidence.
Suspicious of BM, LQ, wgeurts, RR, and jeanne11.
VOTE: LQ
We think LQ is likely scum, but also think LQ is the best lynch target even if he were to flip town. LQ flip will help us read others, more than any other flip.

[Titus]

*cough* Ranger 936 *cough*

[Jeanne11]

He answered your question

So if town, Ranger is objectively bad for making a hasty decision based upon nothing to actually read

You say nothing, I say something. RVS posting is never irrelevant posting. It's how Elbirn became obvtown, after all, and to some extent Titus and Jeanne too among others.

[Suzune]

I didn't like the secret vote in the dark mechanic. It seems to me it's just a sneaky way for Scum to create a mislynch. No one can see the count, no one can claim at L-1... No, I don't like it.

I don't think the concept of secret votes is a mechanic that favors town or mafia. Yes it can create a mislynch but a wise townie could also use it to keep the town from debating when it was at L-1

The only way anyone can prove anything is by mod confirmation or flip.

There is always a way to swing things so that the town sees that your power is being used for good. Unless you mess up and damage the town...so that is something that could be done. However, I feel like if I was in the same place and I was a vanilla townie or something that I would just claim that.

This is a misrep of me unless you click on the post. it is actually comprised of 2 quotes: one where Elb says "because he's Scum?" and me responding "How do you know?"

I am really disappointed in you Suzune, like really. Why do this?

I did not misrepresent you, I only tagged on that I would have asked the same question. I said nothing negative or positive about you really just that I had the same though. All I did was post a thought paragraph afterwards on my opinion about something. Oh second part of it. Is that not what you said to me? That you played a game that someone gained a power after so many votes. If I misunderstood then I apologize, however, I thought that is what you said.

@Suzune, why have you not seen the Town points I have made? What made you satisfied with keeping a vote on us for so long since the beginning of the game? On the one hand I feel the vote on me is really oportunistic and on the other hand I feel you wouldn't be that obvious as Scum. Help me out here. Why are you nonchalantly voting me?

That makes me laugh for some reason the thought of someone nonchalantly voting. I am voting for you for a small pool of reasons. The first being that you usually shout town to me, I mean shout it on the top of your lungs, but this time I feel really odd about you and your playing style. That strikes a cord with me. In the early game, all your posts seemed to create ripples and expect more push from you more read from you, but this side of LQ I cannot get a handle on. Usually you are vocal, opinioned on reads, playing hard and fast. You seem out of your element. I have never seen you play as scum before, but you seen quite odd here.

You have been really adamant about I am town because I say I am town. This seems odd to me. I know I have made this arguement before in the past, however you are in no real danger so the fact that it keeps coming up interests me. It almost seems like if I say it enough they will believe it. I see no positive post from you that show your position or how you are reading people. The things you have posted are one liners about not liking their tone or not having a comment. You would also not defend yourself in post 332. Which strikes me as odd. I realise there might not have been enough pressure but I feel like not backing yourself is an odd strategy.

That is kind of a window into what I am thinking.

Long post----being divided here

[FireKari]

That's exactly what I am doing. By trusting only myself, I am lowering the chances of me being manipulated. Oh, and I do trust Elbirn and Suzune, I just don't trust you or LQ.

This post seems to contradict itself. You trust only yourself, but you trust elbirn and suszune? Which is it?
~Yukari
Btw for anyone who hasn't figured it out, you can usually tell us and fire apart via our pronoun usage.

[Suzune]

There should be no mistakes. Since I am town, anyone who reads me as scum is scum from my point of view

Is this post serious? I mean people might always read you as scum, if everyone who ever read me as scum when I was town was mafia then I would have so many scum reads all the time...

Okay, maybe it was not going to be super long...

[Jeanne11]

I don't care. I am aiming for the town win, and anyone who hinders that shall burn.

[Suzune]

I don't care. I am aiming for the town win, and anyone who hinders that shall burn.

Small wonder this comment comes off as anti-town. It is strong belief that townies listen to and hear posts in order to understand and work through motive. Understanding how people will act comes from seeing where they are coming from.

[Jeanne11]

So suppose you think you understand the motive and declare a person a townie. Said person turns out to be scum.

......

Yeah, a good idea. A pretty darn good idea.....:/

[Titus]

Ten they get lynched. See Legends of the Hidden temple.

[BRantz]

Bleh, sorry everyone, will catch up on this tonight/tomorrow.

[Ranger]

*cough* Ranger 936 *cough*

As Jeanne said, answered indirectly, but yes, I do.

In other news, I

may

be in the mood to take things more seriously soonish. That'd mainly mean more explicit explanations, but don't hold me to a date/time. Depending on my mood means exactly that, depending on my mood. It'd require a combination of boredom, desire, and willpower. (I have trouble with focus--I'd rather not go into the details as to why, but it's a problem I have. I prefer not to admit to it in games so it won't become a crutch, but it exists.)