California Trilogy - Dantès in Fresno (Game Over!)

[Tamuz]

OK hun.

All numbers refer to Tally's PC

0: nada
1: Nada
2: Cubs is 2nd in her votecount, but mentioned nowhere else.
3: nada
4. Vote with Cubs still in it, nothing about it
5. Locking in the vote (this is where I made a mistake with zealous ctrl + F'ing)
6. nada
7. nada
8. Finally talks about cubs. and votes him.


So mistake with it being three, since one of the posts was a EBWOP, but there are still two instances with cubs being in the top of your concordet without you actually having a said a word about him, then you go and scribble two sentences about him, far less than other suspicions of yours (read PWS) and he becomes your top vote. I just don[t follow you.

[Cubsfan4ever]

Well, since it's day one and I really have nothing else to go on at the moment, I think I'll cast a ballot for LML. His behavior has been odd to this point in my opinion. Not sure if it's necessarily scummy but it has caught my attention and at least warrants a vote at this point.

Vote: Loudmouthlee

[Mr. Grey]

Dani Banani replaces Mastermind of Sin.

[Mr. Grey]

Vote Count:

11 to lynch.

Skruffs: 5 (Dragon Phoenix, foolinc, Battle Mage/jeep, LoudmouthLee, VitaminR)
LoudmouthLee: 4 (Adele, Cubsfan4ever, IH/Oman, Thesp)
Cubsfan4ever: 2 (PookyTheMagicalBear, Talitha)
Battle Mage/jeep: 2 (Cogito Ergo Sum, Mgm)
Dragon Phoenix: 1 (Skruffs)
foolinc: 1 (Tamuz/Thestatusquo)
logicticus: 1 (Dani Banani/Mastermind of Sin)
IH/Oman: 1 (logicticus)
PlaysWithSquirrels: 1 (xyzzy)
PookyTheMagicalBear: 1 (PlaysWithSquirrels)
xyzzy: 1 (Zindaras)

Current Condorcet Winner:

None. Current Smith Set: Adele, Cogito Ergo Sum, Cubsfan4ever, foolinc, Battle Mage/jeep, logicticus, LoudmouthLee, Dani Banani/Mastermind of Sin, Mgm, IH/Oman, PlaysWithSquirrels, PookyTheMagicalBear, Skruffs, Talitha, Thesp, Tamuz/Thestatusquo, VitaminR, xyzzy, Zindaras

To view the complete table of pairwise results, put this information in this form.

[IH]

hey guys, i'm here. Dont worry-tomorrow i will reread, solve this entire game, and we can all go to my brother's house for tea.

Good Lord, lets just abandon this game now.

OK hun.

All numbers refer to Tally's PC

0: nada
1: Nada
2: Cubs is 2nd in her votecount, but mentioned nowhere else.
3: nada
4. Vote with Cubs still in it, nothing about it
5. Locking in the vote (this is where I made a mistake with zealous ctrl + F'ing)
6. nada
7. nada
8. Finally talks about cubs. and votes him.


So mistake with it being three, since one of the posts was a EBWOP, but there are still two instances with cubs being in the top of your concordet without you actually having a said a word about him, then you go and scribble two sentences about him, far less than other suspicions of yours (read PWS) and he becomes your top vote. I just don[t follow you.

How far down in the condorcent voting was he? This is very important.

I seriously don't like how Cubsfan just seems to be posting minimum. He's easily hiding in the activity.

Tag corrected. - Mod

[Dani Banani]

hello everyone, i am replacing MoS, but first i need to read the game... give me some time, and i will be back with my input...

Unvote:

[IH]

Does day end in around 4 days?

[Cubsfan4ever]

I seriously don't like how Cubsfan just seems to be posting minimum. He's easily hiding in the activity.

I don't really know what you mean here. Obviously I can't just not post since we have a posting requirement. I do not see how am I "hiding" or could hide even if I wanted to. This post just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

[foolinc]

Unfortunately real life has gotten in the way of me finishing my anaylsis, but I will be finished sometime tomorrow.

Cubs: Could you explain more than two sentences on why you voted for LML? A couple of quotes or links to certain posts citing the reasons for your vote would be helpful.

[IH]

I don't really know what you mean here. Obviously I can't just not post since we have a posting requirement. I do not see how am I "hiding" or could hide even if I wanted to. This post just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

The posting recquirement is what lets you "hide" in plain sight. With such an influx of large posts so quickly, if you post the 25 word requirement every 48 hours, and nothing more, then you stay in the game, and can essentially hide in the larger posts.

[Mgm]

Until someone decides to do a PBPA or post count, then he's screwed.
Based on the chances of that happening, I call BS.

Lurking in any form is a non-viable strategy for this game.

[Talitha]

Does day end in around 4 days?

Good point, we need to get cracking here.

Tamuz, I am not going to provide explanations for eveyone on my condorcet list. Especially not early on day 1. If it means you can't follow me well so be it. You'll just have to read the thread and make up your own mind Plus I am happy to answer questions that arent just an attack on my play style.

So, it's interesting to note my two top suspects are voting for LML ... I'm not sure if this means Lee is innocent, or if he's getting bussed, or if i'm wrong

I'm still liking the cubs vote though.

[Skruffs]

Why does day end in four days? I would think that while a deadline is useful, making everyone post every other day leads to a wealth of information. There are five or six players who have just replaced in who should have a chance to get their opinions out, as well, before the day is snubbed short.

And I'm still confused about why Jeep replaced out, if it doesn't have to do with his family. Does jeep normally back out of games if he is put under any amount of pressure? That's what it looks like to me, which is why I would like some clarification. I wouldn't want to go chasing down a wrong alleyway.

Nobody has responded to the "Two families thing", not even to Dragon's backpedalling. First there was "A second family", which indicates a first family. Then he says "I would even bet either two families or one family and a SK." BUt he didn't mention SK before then, he said "Second family".

Consider Oman as well:

I think DP and Skruffs are mutually exclusive scum, they're not buddying up, but there is not enough for a distance call yet.

And I would like a lot of people's opinions on this. How likely is it to know the number of mafia groups on day one, before anyone has died, if you aer not in one of them and thus have no idea how big one or both of them are?

Also, if we are close to deadline, I would like everyone who are voting me to unvote me yunless they are really serious. I can even name claim, if you want.

But I am serious - if you just skippde over my post and happened to see this, move your eyes backwards three paragraphs and read that part, and respond to it. And then vote DP for great justice. Thanks.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Are you trying to play the dim card Skruffs?

1. jeep clearly went out for family reasons - what are you trying to reach by casting doubt on his motives? jeep backing out because he is under pressure??

2. Reading the rules is a clear prerequisite for this game. The deadline has been announced since day one.

3. Congratulations on the astute observation that if I mention a second family, that this implies that there is a first. Excellent. If you think my next comment you refer to (about there also being a possibility of one family and a SK) is backpedalling, then you don't understand the meaning of that word.

I would be happy with a Skruffs, battlemage(jeep) or Cubs lynch.

[IH]

Why does day end in four days? I would think that while a deadline is useful, making everyone post every other day leads to a wealth of information. There are five or six players who have just replaced in who should have a chance to get their opinions out, as well, before the day is snubbed short.

According to the rules, day lasts two weeks, and then if no one has been lynched, then the condorcent voting comes into play.

it seems that post 328 has some random stuff.....

And I'm still confused about why Jeep replaced out, if it doesn't have to do with his family. Does jeep normally back out of games if he is put under any amount of pressure? That's what it looks like to me, which is why I would like some clarification. I wouldn't want to go chasing down a wrong alleyway.

It's useless to speculate about this, but considering how long Jeep has been playing, and making his "list of scumtells" and such, it could be for any number of reasons. Using this against BM isn't valid I think.

FoS:Skruffs

I think....

I'd feel better with a BM or LML lynch personally.

So, it's interesting to note my two top suspects are voting for LML ... I'm not sure if this means Lee is innocent, or if he's getting bussed, or if i'm wrong

Who is that? Just curious.

MGM, Cubsfan has made six posts in this game so far.
Just use the filter at the bottom.

[Skruffs]

K.
Dp, you arent interested in a name claim, presumably because, just like you have been since your original band wagon vote, which you hastily found reasons for later, you just want me to be lynched. I'm presuming that it is better play to actually hunt scum rather than blindly try to get someone lynched.

If i do not understand back peddling, then, please explain why you only added sk as an option after i asked you about it?

Ih, i can understand that jeep may have left for any reason, but i seem to recall the mod posting that jeeps replacement doesnt have to do with his family. If it did, i wouldnt be curious, and im not fossing BM over it. You avoided the two family thing because oman also said a similar thing about me and DP, i am guessing? If i am wrong, just point it out to me.

Is Anyone else who is voting me not interested in a name claim? Or would they rather keep pushing for a mislynch?

unvote, vote loudmouthlee

Condorcet list: loudmouthlee, dragon phoenix, [everyone else],[talitha, zindaras, thesp, pookie], no lynch.

[Mgm]

And I would like a lot of people's opinions on this. How likely is it to know the number of mafia groups on day one, before anyone has died, if you aer not in one of them and thus have no idea how big one or both of them are?

To Skruffs: yes, there might be a second mafia family. That is not unheard of in a 20 player game. I would even bet either two families or one family and a SK.

He's made a guess regarding the setup based on the number of players in the game. The word "might" shows he's guessing and unless you know something I don't there's no evidence yet, that that guess is actually right.

MGM, Cubsfan has made six posts in this game so far.
Just use the filter at the bottom.

I know and I also know he's not doing a very good job at hiding.

[IH]

K.
Dp, you arent interested in a name claim, presumably because, just like you have been since your original band wagon vote, which you hastily found reasons for later, you just want me to be lynched. I'm presuming that it is better play to actually hunt scum rather than blindly try to get someone lynched.

If i do not understand back peddling, then, please explain why you only added sk as an option after i asked you about it?

Ih, i can understand that jeep may have left for any reason, but i seem to recall the mod posting that jeeps replacement doesnt have to do with his family. If it did, i wouldnt be curious, and im not fossing BM over it. You avoided the two family thing because oman also said a similar thing about me and DP, i am guessing? If i am wrong, just point it out to me.

Is Anyone else who is voting me not interested in a name claim? Or would they rather keep pushing for a mislynch?

Well, it said it didn't have to do with Jeep's sister, who he had already expressed concern for and been slightly away for it, remember?
Also, how does a name claim help us at all? Just curious.

[Battle Mage]

ah sorry, Unvote
will reread and post later today.
BM

Votes/Unvotes not appearing at the bottom of the post are not counted. Tags removed. - Mod

[Adele]

Whew! Where to start... first off, sorry for my absence; I had out-of-town work coinciding with a public transport strike, and lacked the freedom to go online.

However Adele sticks to this chat on random voting rather than looking at the real issues. Says in post 181 "Things are random at this stage" which I think we're way past.

I think things were way more random in the post you're referring to (181) than in this post itself (more than half as many posts again later).

Scum 1 and scum 2 could arrange before the game to "random" vote scum 3 so that anyone else voting scum 3 would be attacked.
Scum 1 and scum 2 could arrange before the game to "random" vote townie 3 so that they could unvote and defend the townie upon the third vote so, should that that townie ever die, they'll be considered likely GGs be association.

And so on.

Do you think either of the scenarios you've presented here have potentially obtained?

I don't undestand that sentence, I'm afraid; If you're asking if I'm saying one of them is the case here, the answer's "I don't think so". If you're asking if I think they are really possible plays in games generally, then yes, absolutely.

I was asking the former. What would be the possible purpose of MoS-scum in this instance to fake random voting? Your answer seems to be, "I don't know, but it looks scummy." I need a higher standard than that, particularly from you.

Why, that's very nearly a compliment! And, frankly, I was never intending to present a game-specific case against MoS for that action, because, as I hope people will one day understand, my problem with dice-tag voting is not game-specific. I don't like the divestment of responsibility, I don't like the fact that it's people pretending to contribute and actually contributing nothing to discussion (apart from this, but that's sooo not the point).
Why might MoS have faked it? I don't know and I don't care. I just think it's worth noting that it

could

be faked for nefarious purposes. The fact of its potential is the issue, not the likelihood of it.

That was not my accusation

.

TheStatusquo is innocent. If you don't believe me, just ask Tamuz

?

Adele:
-109 only 1 thing really strikes here? Minimalize much!
Introduction of null tell- I've never heard of this before, but its something I missed going IA the last few months of mafia this doesn't matter. If its a relatively new term, I'm somewhat concerned of Zindie's overuse of it and PWS
picking up of this term.
- 181

councils

skruffs, advising him how to deflect attention. HUHUHUHUHJUHUHUHUHUH?
- That quote in Adel's siggy calling her misguided realllllly applies to Adel as far as LML defending MoS goes

1. I did

not

advise skruffs on how to deflect attention. I advised him to

play well

.
2. Are you getting me confused with Adel? Adel/=Adele. We are different people.

I agree with Tamuz's post #296 on: MoS, xyzzy and Cubs; I either mildly disagree or have no opinion on his other analyses, except his judgement of me (see above)

Why is everyone voting Skruffs for going ahead to use the list system? It's not like he gets extra votes, it seems it's only used for deadline lynches. How is it perceived as a bad thing to ensure a lynch happens as such? Just curious if this is just a focal point for a random bandwagon or not.

/agree

I've decided to coin a term today.
Metascummy (Adj)
definition: behaviour that is unhelpful to the town but defended as supposedly unscummy due to the user's universal use of the tactic.

By your definition, smileys, jokes, pictures, and anything superfluous is scummy (indicated by the "supposedly unscummy") Which is horribly untrue.

If they're used as tactics (indicated by the "use of the tactic")...
Seriously, though, following the game I'll pimp the concept and I'll get Seol to write a definition that won't get persnickity folks' knickers in a twist.

I think at this point, condorcent voting has been blown out of proportion

/agree

Adele's logic looks like she's been trying to think of a reason why she could make random voting into something scummy.

But, I

always

hate dice-tags, so it can't be a scumtell

btw, if you think that hypotheticals don't have a place in the game, then, sucks to be you. I don't know how not to argue with hypotheticals - they're too big a part of my brain.

Poop, I'm out of time (spent 1.5hrs reading & writing this - sooo out of practise). I'm only up to post 300ish. More to come soon.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Is anyone else having a deep unsettling suspicion of IH right now?

Currently the wagons are very interesting, a very colorful group on Lee right now.

Skruffs, why are you voting Lee right now?

[logicticus]

Yeah IH isnt doing anything to alleviate my vote which was based on his predecessor.

Cubs has been somewhat lurking in plain site. Early on he disparaged the semi wagon on skruffs, but since then not much that I can tell.

Skruffs, are you really advocating a name claim this early or am I misreading that?

[VitaminR]

Not something I'd worry about, but since it came two posts after he first voted Skruffs, and this posts doesn't appear to make him change that vote.

Well that part of Skruffs' behaviour has little to do with why I'm voting him. That's why...

I don't like the recent LML wagon that has developed. LML has been loud and aggressive, but, well, he always is. There doesn't really seem to be all that much behind it.

I like Tamuz' entry in the game. foolinc seems like a good player to start poking.

[LoudmouthLee]

If necessary, I will claim.

[foolinc]

~Anaylsis up to 344~

Adele: Still feeling a townie vibe, especially her response to LML’s “Gospel” post (post 240).

Cogito Ergo Sum: Hasn’t post a ton of content, but the content he’s given seems to make me think me is playing for the town.

Cubsfan4ever: Highly scummy. Contributed nothing besides backing Skruffs in the very beginning.

Dragon Phoenix: DP hasn’t shown me anything that would change my initial thoughts; probably town.

Battle Mage/jeep: BM hasn’t been around long enough to make any sort of impact, however up until jeep was replaced I still found him to be scummy since the only content he provided was able the voting policy. Still somewhat scummy.

logicticus: While I disagree on his opinion of Oman, I am still leaning toward town with logicticus.

LoudmouthLee: Has been very overaggressive (which is his play style) however, I don’t think the things that he has been attacking are very important, the “Yay Thesp” is a good example of what I mean. Slightly scummy.

Dani Banani/Mastermind of Sin: Hasn’t really contributed anything besides his own defense before getting replaced. I’m still with slightly scummy for now.

Mgm: Still leaning towards town, though I don’t know if I like his defense of Cubs “lurking” not being scummy (at least I think that it what he was trying to say in post 335).

IH/Oman: I said that I thought Oman seemed to be working for the town and IH hasn’t shown me a reason to believe otherwise.

PlaysWithSquirrels: Since my last analysis post he’s only made a few posts of worth and since he just asked for a replacement, I’ll leave him as neutral.

PookyTheMagicalBear: Has been hard to read so far. Neutral

Skruffs: While his play as of late has given me some doubts of whether or not he is really scum, downgraded to slightly scummy.

Talitha: I’m a fan of people stating their reasons for their votes and I don’t buy that Oman only getting through three people is a sign that he is scum (as real life could easily explain that reason). However both of these stem problem from game play issues, so I think I’ll place her as neutral for the time being.

Thesp: Has been asking lots of questions so far which is making me feel that he is a townie.

Tamuz/Thestatusquo: Thestatusquo totally flaked on the game (school is a very good reason to flake though). Tamuz has been very active for the short time he’s been playing and I need to see more (as in posts over time, not in regards of activity level) before I make a judgment.

VitaminR: Hasn’t posted a lot since my last analysis (pretty sure he was on vacation), however my feelings on him pretty much have remained the same. Mostly townie with a chance of scum.

xyzzy: Has been pretty loud and aggressive, maybe even over aggressive in regards to the “Yay Thesp” comment. I’m not quite sure whether this means he is scum or not, not yet anyway.

Zindaras: I’m still not happy with the way he handled the Skruffs situation early on, I think that his play as of late has been for the town.
---------

unvote; Vote: Cubsfan4ever,

Battle Mage/jeep, Skruffs, Dani Banani/Mastermind of Sin, LoudmouthLee, [PlaysWithSquirrels, PookyTheMagicalBear, Talitha, Tamuz/Thestatusquo, xyzzy], [Adele, Cogito Ergo Sum, logicticus, Mgm, IH/Oman, Thesp, VitaminR, Zindaras], no lynch, foolinc